Did The Winter King KILL His Marceline? (Fionna and Cake Episode 6 Theory) 

My theory is that in this universe, Marceline never left Simon during his decent into the Ice King. The Simon we know left Marcy because he knew he was becoming a danger, but the Winter King is more self-centered; it's possible the two stayed together much longer than they should have become Simon didn't want to be alone, resulting in him attacking Marcy at some point either freezing her, killing her, or scaring her away. A theory I saw floating around that plays into this is that without Marcy, no one stopped the vampires from killing off the humans or helped them escape. No humans means no Finn.

Marcie got her axe when she was a kid, her dad "gave" it to her after destroying her house which happened around the time simon left her.

If I had a nickel for every time an animated character named Simon horrifically disintegrated into dust, I'd have two nickels; which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

I thought that ice Marcy died for SURE the first time I watched this

It makes me worried foe simon more. As his future is really looking grim, I thought this episode could open the door to a simon with powers that is sane. But after the reveal, that's not looking to be possible. But its looks like either fionna or simon has to give up there wishes. The crown has no compromises

I love how the madness made the Candy Queen want to blend them together due to it (the madness) wanting desperately to "go home" to Simon.

This episode made me realize three things: 1. Just how much morally correct our Simon is and that thanks to people like betty and Marceline he was able to keep his heart despite being insane. 2. Their was a little Ice Marceline that was playing the same guitar that an older Marceline got from Hudson so does that me the Winter King stole it or worse? 3. Finally farm world made me remember another looming threat of Adventure "The Lich" while I know this series villain will be the scarab it doesn't erase the the Lich's having been scatter across the multiverse could make an unannounced appearance. 😱

I know the winter king was evil but I still loved the man’s charisma

I think the Winter King is foreshadowing that Simon will not become the ice king. In the winter kings song about his backstory, he shows himself with only one gem in the crown. This is consistent with other crown imagery in the season. I think Simon will become the Ice Prince Fiona saw, a low power wizard but enough magic to make Fiona’s world Magic again,

Maybe if we get an winter king back story would be cool so Fiona and cake know about the consequences from ice king coming back and having to say goodbye again to Simon.

I think his Marcie died when she got sick long ago and he wasn't able to get the soup in time. Also I think he barely thinks of betty cuz he's Cursed, He can't really remember her.

My headcanon for this universe was that when Ice King turned his crown's curse onto BubbleGum, Marcy could have been both happy and heartbroken to see Simon again, as well as she was heartbroken to see PB turning crazy. I would think Marcy could actually give up in this kind of situation and just distance herself, run away. Because if you think of it - WinterKing is not Simon, he is not companionable, loving and caring like the real one, he is still an IceKing, just more fancy, and Marcy would probably sense that immediately. PB, although going crazy, is still technically alive. If Marcy tried breaking the curse, that would mean she had to save one of her loved ones, but harm the other, make Simon CRAZY AGAIN, by her OWN HANDS. I would think that could be too emotionally drowning for her and she so Marcy leaving things as they are and disappearing seems logical to me.

I'm still sitting here like "damn, they're really not gonna do multiple seasons of this? Just one?"

I just think it’s even more impressive that Iceking even thought of transferring his curse to someone else. The iceking as we know him, at least until we found out his tragic past as Simon, seam like a happy idiot. I also think Marceline was killed as a kid, maybe like how we see during the song. So without Marceline to bring remember who he used to be he just never did. I think it could even be that the curse wasn’t just transferred to Bubblegum, but their personalities was somehow swapped. Bubblegum could have been looking into a way to deal with Iceking and then after finding out about the curse she work on a way to remove it. Then after they got switched Winter king did what he could to keep it like he wanted

I think it’s important to note that Winter King cursed Bubblegum for 100 years and dissolved almost instantly once the curse broke while Simon was fully cursed for over 800 years and he’s still alive and slowly aging after his curse broke. There can be a lot of reasons for this including Betty’s wish that he be okay, but I choose to think tampering with the crown’s curse really screwed Winter King over.

Question to everyone, does the candy queen having two different eye colors mean that pb also heterochromia? If so that would be pretty sweet.

I do definetly think Marcy is dead in this universe, and that WK likely did it. One reason is the fact that WK doesn't care about Betty. I think, alongside transfering the insanity of the crown to PG, he transfered a lot of his grief onto her as well, hence why he's no longer in love with Betty. But he has an Ice Marcy, showing that there's still a connection there. So he passed on his grief for Betty, but not Marcy, because he did that transfer before Marcy died. I do think an important consideration when understanding WK is if you think he's still impacted by the crown. Personally, I absolutely think he is, even if he doesn't have that insanity Ice King had. Beyond just being insane, Ice Kind was...pretty mean in early seasons. Causing damage, kidnapping people to marry him against their will, and generally being a bother. There's a lack of empathy and selfishness there, and I think that reflects WK's actions. Yes, he's less insane about it, but he's still self-serving and selfish. I think that's part of the crown's influence, which would explain why this Simon is so vasty different to the one we know. So, we have an Ice King both without the crown's insanity, and without Simon's grief over Betty. What we get is a selfish, self-serving man who cannot empathize with others. With that in mind, the idea of him turning on Marcy when she objects to what he's done to PB, killing her, and replacing her with Ice Marcy makes plenty of sense. It serves his desire to have Marcy back without having to deal with the concequences of his actions.

I really think she died more in front of him and he blames the one person that they both knew who happened to be there PB

I was so excited hearing BDG's voice come out of the Winter King

i just had a thought so when ice king got un-magiced and turned back into simon for the first time and finn and jake asked him if he remembered anything from when he was magic, he said "nothing specific, only dream-like impressions." and now when fionna and cakes universe got un-magiced, they can't remember anything specific from when they were magic and they only have dreams (or dream-like impressions) of it. i thought it was interesting idk

That episode impressed me!!! I watched Adventure Time for years. I never thought Winter King(Ice King) & Candy Queen(Princess Bubblegum) switch personalities and madness. I watched that episode 3 times! Btw, Marshall Lee and Gary Prince are getting close❤😉

As the WK is not mad, he would have a lot more control over his mighty ice magic than Ice King, making him one of the most powerful beings in Ooo. I imagine that Marcy, Jake and Finn tried to stop WK from harming PB and the candy people, leading to an epic battle, but WK wiped the floor with them.

My theory is that Marcy died during had been given the axe at a young age so she could defend her self before Simon left, but ozzers killed her (I’m sorry if I said that wrong) anyways he went even crazier than before and when he projected the craziness on to the “candy queen” she had more craziness and when he gained his sanity back, he created ice Marcy to mourn her loss and have a bit of her left.

There are 2 possibilities of what happened to Marcy. Either Marcy died and Winter King was unable to save her, so he made an ice version of her. Or.. unlike Simon in his universe, Marcie and Ice King never met again, or Marceline stopped talking to the Ice King completely for reasons unknown. So in order to bring them back so to speak, he made Ice Marcy. And about the axe, i suppose that Winter King found it somehow, either when he found Marcy's dead body at some point. Or he made a fake replica.

When I saw ice Marceline I knew someting is suspicious. I guess what happened is that he fail to save Marceline (thats why she is portrayed young or this is how he remember her?) somehow and fell into the grieve. What make me wonder what happened between him and Betty if he barely remember her nor loved her?

I think that the candy queens obsesion with the winter king was the madness of the crown trying to get back to him espesally because the candy queen wanted to literally blend her and the winter king togeter

4:05 That'll be a great Adventure Time show. Finn and Jake slowly finding out that their best friend The Winter King was actually the psychopath, and the person they've been fighting against this entire time was just one of his victims

here's a theory: I do personally think Fionna's world will get its magic back because A. it would be kinda boring if they make a season 2 in the non-magic universe, and B. the wacky world of adventure time is kinda what the shows all about. So if that does happen, I imagine there will be a big battle between scarab and the gang at the end of the season, with at least Marshall and Gary coming to help. how cool would it be if their world starts to become magical again mid-fight, and the gang starts to turn back into their old selves in the process. marshall getting his vampire powers back, Gary and the candy citizens returning to normal to lend a hand, and Fionna an Cake regaining their memories and fighting prowess to kick ass.

From the stakes mini series (empress episode) we know that Marceline went and fought vampires (what led her to become 1) because her love to Simon, and we know from farm world in adventure time that without becoming a vampire she will grow old as a half demon (and eventually die), so he didn't have to even do much differently for her to die, just do enough less for her not to miss him that much.

Technically Betty probably died in the past as Simon would only be able to pull Betty around fin and jakes time, so it is likely that she died early on in the winter kings long past which could end up changing how he thinks compared to Simon. Also technically Fiona and Cake was put in our specific ice king so they might not be a story in any other universe.

My personal headcanon: Simon's obsession with princesses didn't transfer over to Candy Queen. But rather, her own desires got twisted. Ice King never wanted to really harm any princess, but CQ wants Winter King DEAD. So I think that's it. Bubblegum's anger at Winter King was corrupted into a yandere obsession with him, wanting him dead without even being sure why

I find this theory very interesting, but I also have a different one that is a bit more mundane and, although less gruesome, I personally find it also very sad: There is a chance Marceline never knew Simon was the reason why Bubblegum got insane. I think it can be safely assumed Bubblegum would have had her descent into madness while she and Marceline were not together (I think their break up in our timeline was more than 100 years ago) and Marceline might not have been involved enough to do something about it at that point. Maybe she and Simon simply had a fallout after he regained his saness, maybe she's still around, just not around him, and instead of fixing their relationship this version of Simon (which is manipulative and toxic) decided to make a copy, one that he can control. It embodies the idea of love of toxic narcisistic people: I don't really love you, I love the idea I have of you. But... I have nothing to back this theory up with. It's just a fan theory I have

What I personally think happened is that by some accident,princess bubblegum was what lead to the death of Marcy. And the Ice king seeing the last important person in his life die,snapped and ‘through sheer force of will’ conjured up a curse to transfer his madness onto PB. And the first thing he did was to create a version of Marcy he knew the best.

I realized after watching this episode that the reason the ice king and Simon act so differently from each other even though they're both technically Simon is because even though the ice king isn't insane anymore he's still the ice king just not insane after throwing it all at p.b and even though he's not insane it doesn't mean he's back to being Simon due to him not having (most) of the memories of being Simon and lacking his morals. All though that could just be because he's an alternate universe Simon/Ice king

Ice Marcy has been burned into my head and I'm adding this to a universe that needs its own mini series- right up there with Farm World

I feel like in this universe, simon had a closer relationship with Marcy than with Betty. Perhaps something broke them apart and he got to bond with Marcy more prior to the crowns curse. Either marcy dying young pushed his insanity at an earlier moment to become saner by the current day after grieving, or after many years the crown more properly integrated Evergreens identity with his and blended them to become sane long enough to use the crowns wish magic to affect Bubblegum. Another idea is if Bubblegum is still a reckless tyrannical scientist in this reality, she could have stolen his crown for an experiment to stop him from kidnapping princesses with a lack of Finn to handle him and the experiment backfired on them both

I honestly feel like he might have frozen Marcy on accident during one of his freak-outs as Ice King, and was never able to find her. While he's less adjusted than our Simon, murder feels way too dark for the tone of the episode and Winter King's character as a whole.

I have two theories. A: Ice King accidentally killed Marceline. But after which he had nothing left to loose. So he stopped actually caring about anyone. B: That version of Betty tampered with the crown difrently that ours did & still got sent to Mars during the Elementals. Simon just assumed she was dead & repressed his love. She just split the Insanity between the two. Winter King is still a Psosiopath & Queenies just subconsciously getting her revenge.

I like the Marceline one because it makes sense I mean she didn't want Simon to go crazy because he kept putting on the crown

My theory with Winter King's relationship with Betty is based on the fact in this universe Simon/WK never made the time portal, and thus the time loop of Betty going to the future, and Simon being unable to find her and growing obsessed with her. Afterall, with Marcy replaced there's no Hambo, Bella Noche never got released, nothing would have caused the catalyst for Simon to cast the spell. Thus, Betty stayed in the past, and because even then she would never leave Simon's side, she went back to him. In fact, this gets a bit fan-fictiony, but knowing that Magic Betty had no issue with using immoral means to save her Simon, past Betty might have been the one to originally come up with the plan to transfer the madness from the crown to someone else, and that was what put it in Winter King's mind.

What also gets me is right before he mentions making an Ice-Betty, he refers to her as "the dead woman". Meaning he explicitly associated the idea with someone having died. Butlast I heard, Simon in our main timeline of Ooo never really got evidence that Betty died... She just disappeared. Which I guess wouldn't have happened if Finn in this timeline is frozen or dead. Meaning this version of Ice King could have hunted her down a long time ago and who really knows what happened to her - hell, he could have been the one to lead to her death long before the century he was projecting the crown's madness elsewhere. Or time passed with Betty in his life, and he's moved past it because she died of old age and he's had time to come to terms with that, ironically making him a *worse* person for being given the closure while he had the crown. Also I keep thinking the Ice Prince was offering Simon to show him how he defeated the crown's madness - where was the going to project that madness for Simon? Well, he doesn't Really need Fionna. If he likes her so much, he can just make an Ice-Fionna. But it's not like he's calling for her when he's kidnapped. He doesn't really need her. If Fionna hadn't drained the crown, I think he would have projected it onto her after they'd gotten back.

My guess is that Marceline is still around, but she left Simon and her axe behind for one reason or another, and he keeps it and the clone of Marceline around to remind him of those fond memories. It's also entirely possible that Simon never fell in love with Betty in this universe, and so Marceline was the one real emotional attachment in the world he still had and couldn't let go of even as the Winter King.

anyone else notice that cake has been getting better at her shapeshifting and learning how to use them

out of all the episodes that have been released, this one has to be in my top three favs, not only is the music amazing but the fact that we actually get to see a swapped universe of where instead of it being pb and ice king its candy queen and winter king

I saw a comic on twitter where PB killed Marcy on accident and that's why WK cursed her, which I really like. If the WK Simon is the same one from the main reality (except he took a different path in life) I can't see him having chosen to kill Marceline, but if PB killed her that would give him motive. Maybe the thing that separates the two realities is that in the WK one Ice king holds off the madness for longer, and was thus able to stay with Marcy for longer. Him being there somehow causes PB to kill Marceline (maybe Simon, in his madness, attacks PB and Marcy gets caught in the crossfire) which causes Simon, with what capability he has, to curse PB.

Considering in the song we saw Simon and Marcy being overwhelmed by Oozers, I think she might have died at that age, or at least WK doesn't remember her any older, but the axe throws a spanner into that theory...

I think this is leading to a confrontation with Betty Golb. Golb attempted to digest Simon reverting him to a state where he never had magic. I think even if Simon puts on a crown, it will not work because the world in his head is constantly in a state of reverting magic same as Golb. Cake and Fionna changing magic is the same as Golb digestion.

This episode is bonkers I love it! Great theory video on The Winter King.

The animation was made in such high quality production, the smoothness, the colors, details in the background are so well designed, kinda represents the over idealistic reality where Simon can control the crown. I also loved the animation and music from this episode. 🩵🩵🩵🩵❄️❄️❄️❄️

i think this universe was just like the normal shows‘s timeline up until a couple of years before season 1, i think this because PB and the candy kingdom seemed to be developed as far as we see it in the main shows storyline, instead of underdeveloped and under construction like in shokos episode. this to me means that once simon started to project magic onto PB, grown marceline tried to confront him only to be met by him freezing / killing? her , creating an ice marceline that was his ideal version of her, which is the child who blindly trusted simon throughout the apocalypse. this also could explain how he not only got access to the axe but how it appears as her bass

I'm so glad so I'm finally made a video about Marceline on that world. I've been waiting for so long. Was like that little Marcy is made of ice which means the real one probably died or when he left same became a vampire

i feel the candy queen's personality, at least why she was so focused on the winter king, was the madness of the crown wanting to be reconnected with the rest of itself and the host

@The Roundtable if marceline was killed as a child, finn wouldn't exist because she saved humans escaping ooo from vampires and they would probably still be around the "finn" of this universe is probably a very old shoko because in adventure time she saved pb and died but in this universe pb was under winter kings madness

I dont think Simon and Betty had a bad relationship - i think they just acted desperately upon gaining the knowledge that the other was trapped in some horrible fate for all of time.

Episode 6 was amazing on so many levels

I think what happened is that this ice king/winter king didnt leave marcy in order to protect her when she was little. so he was still around when she got her axe guitar. this would be around the time before she turned into a vampire, but instead in this universe shes still with simon trying to stop him from using the crown but things are worse then before. In a confrontation he accidently kills her. which is why she apears so young, but she has the guitar because he kept it as a memento. We dont know what age she gets the guitar so this could have happened when she was younger too.

My question is how on Earth the ice king managed to even make such a spell to transfer his own madness *whilst* in the madness, assuming he was similar to the original Ooo’s IK. Surely he must’ve had someone help him, but who knows?

I think Winter King also projected his love for Betty (his princess) onto Princess Bubblegum.

Thirsting for the winter king convinced me that the candy queen wasn't too crazy

Could be that Marcy died during the Stakes arc of the Winter King world once Hierophant poisoned her and Ice King couldn't cope with her death, leading him to blame PB as it was her who really caused the drama of that arc. Then IK would eventually figure out how to project his madness onto PB, made Ice Marcy and gave her the last thing he had left of her. This is just a placement on the timeline relative to the events of the main universe and the Winter King universe.

Regarding Finn and Jake, depending on when or if Marceline did die/get frozen, she wouldn't have been around to protect the colony of humans from vampires. Those humans go on to establish the islands, which Finn is from, so if they died by the hands of the vampires due to not having Marceline around in this timeline, there'd be no Finn, possibly even no other humans period (other than Simon, if he even still counts)

My headcanon is that Marceline left Simon when she found out what he did to Bubblegum. He either stole or made another bass and made Ice Marcy to cope with her being gone, perpetually in the form of the still the adoring child he guided.

I just love how Winter Kingdom took the role of the Candy Kingdom

My guess would be that Marceline's vampire hunting days went different in this world. The Empress knew Simon when he was still somewhat sane...so he did meet them in the main timeline. This Simon wouldn't be as reserved about using the crown's powers because he didn't have a Betty incident like our's did. So in this timeline he would stay with Marceline rather than leave and probably used the crown to protect her against the vampires instead of her having to fight them alone. So this world's Simon would turn into the ice king much sooner from using the crown to do this. With Marceline not turning into a vampire she would only be half demon..so she'd age like she did in farm world. This would motivate Simon to try and push the crown's madness into bubblegum because he wanted to use his ice powers to save her somehow..which he couldn't do so he made an ice Marceline instead. Plus the humans would likely have less reason to have hiders if their ancestors who left Ooo told them stories of a mad ice king that killed vampires (along with the monster stories they already told). So finn likely just never left the human islands.

"He's a narcissistic asshole." My brain: "That...actually matches perfectly with Fionna and Cake. ^^;"

Since Marceline didn't make appearance in the Fiona and Cake episode "The Winter King", I wounder what happened to Hunson Abadeer in this timeline.

glad i wasn't the only one who got infinity train flashbacks when winter king didn't feel so good

I clocked on to the Winter King being a bad guy almost instantly from his reaction to Simon. He was amused rather than flabbergasted about the existence of another Simon and even other universes. I was mistaken in his method of villainy equating him to the super spiderman (ghost spider) and thinking that he was maintaining his sanity by draining it from other untainted Simons. Definitely wrong but I wasnt suprised to see CQ return to PB as I had figured out that by the way WK talked about not curing her.When it comes to how IK became WK I’m pretty sure it was some sort attempt to make pb love him by making her think like him and it went awry. It restored Simon to sanity but didn’t rid him of the crown’s corrupting influence and when Marcy tried to get him to reverse it he dealt with her.However she’s definitely still alive as he’d most likely deal with her by freezing her as since she’s a self-healing vampire she’s essentially immortal so she’s around somewhere frozen and unkillable.

I'm confident that the winter king isn't Simon's mind, rather I think it was more like the mind of Evergreen, or maybe a mix of the crown wearers since they're all still in the crown

“Not this part, this is an escalation “ such a good line

When Magic Betty was on Mars with Fin and Jermaine using the Mars Temple to find Jake, Betty talked with her old self. I believe this universe is the one where Betty decided to study abroad instead of staying with Simon and forming that relationship.

1:33 I think, this guy is not Simon, but ice king without the madness

I mean, I think the little wish for your kid to be a little, cute, pure child again is something some parents do think of. My mother once said that it'd be nice if I could be a baby again for a little while. So a fatherly crazy man deciding to make a replica of his daughter, but a child instead of her adult self, makes sense. One jumps and squeaks in joy when given ice cream, the other simply smiles.

Why is nobody talking about the song BAKED WITH LOVE!!! That song has gotta be some hidden clue about the ultimate ICE KING. Put the OG Simon and the ice king the crown turned him into in a blender. Perfectly putting together the hot( simon) and the cold( ice king) like PB said herself "the key ingredient is you and you" while pointing at simon.

The reason Simon wasn't crazy is cause he gave it away to PB. The crown amplifies the worst of you to make you crazy, starting with ice then your personality. Simon's true madness started when he lost Betty in the past. You can see it in the first recordings of SImon Petricove documenting his madness going deeper. He says he doesn't understand where betty went, what he said. He then screams for his princess to come back to him. This is the madness he pushes onto PB, his love for Betty, without it the crown can't use it against him and the ice part is manageable for him as he creates the wonderland. "You can create an Ice Betty....that would be Unethical." It would, it would be form of madness, I imagine an Ice madness he kept that is managable.

It is interesting to be going back on these things after the 1st season has ended

It's pretty genius that these worlds could just be wishes from various characters.

Jeez, when sane simon is actually creepier than insane one

This episode was really just magical

She definitely died or got otherwise incapacitated after Simon left her. She has the axe, but besides that, she turned the axe into a bass. I don't remember when she starts using the axe as a bass, but it's definitely after all that.

It could be possible that the Winter King probably froze a past version of Finn, like maybe he froze Shoko and is still frozen so that could be why we don’t see Finn. Or maybe the Betty of this world left Simon before developing a relationship like we saw in one of the last episodes where Betty saw one of the possibilities in Mars

Please do more Fiona and cake coverage because I love these videos

All hail, the winter king

I like that you put sonic unleashed in background bring me nostalgia

The Ice Marcy has fangs, so she was a vampire before the turn. So possibly the Winter King found her in sometime after she absorbed the Head Vampires.

Man I cried to match after watching this episode First this I do after watching is analysing what saimon have done to this world in the memory will sing he kills all humans and Marceline while being mad it really does break my heart

I think the convergence point in this timeline was when Marcy was defending the humans who'd eventually start the new society. Maybe Marcy couldn't protect them and died and that's what lead Simon to gain enough clarity to redirect the madness

I honestly thought the 2 Pearl looking guards of Winter King was an this universe's version of Finn & Jake, but man, I do like that theory regarding Marceline despite out dark it is, although I am a fan of dark theories

It's hard to say if he just made his own version of Marceline after the original died (by him or otherwise) or if he just stole her Ax Guitar and made his own Marceline because he still cared about her (in a messed up way) Because Marceline didn't make the Ax into an instrument until after she met her Father (if my memory is correct)

I wonder if all this could be rooted in somewhat different starting points, diverging before the mushroom war. His love and loss of betty shaped the ice king's madness. If the winter king had some other relationship with her, one less intense, then the crown would have changed him differently, mad but still lucid enough to transfer it.

1:07 HA! I KNEW I WASNT THE ONLY ONE WHO THOUGHT SHE GAVE SPINEL VIBES

Winter king is a "literally me" character

Can we agree his servants are just holo pearls

Always excited to watch your videos 💜💜💙💙

The winter king brings me back but I will say it’s really dark but cool at the same time I know it’s my favorite episode so far

i saw an idea that it was actually BUBBLEGUM who killed marcy, during an experiment to rid her of her vampireness, winter king got set off. the mix of sadness and madness the two most powerful magical elements in adventure time allowing WK to gain a semblance of his sanity just long enough to project it into bubblegum. this is based off the imagery in the inter kings song during "my poor heart in a chill" showing that he is incredibly angry, however not like the usual anger ice king usually has, not a silly anger but a intense and dangerous anger

Here's my head cannon: Simon killed Betty on that first madness episode, the one where our Betty leapt into the future. That loss deeply affect Simon. He found Marcy and took care of her, but was to hesitant to wear the crown to protect her so that got Marcy killed by mutants as a kid. Simon, guilty an sad, put on the crown to cope non stop. Eventually he did the "transfer madness" thing, but also transfered his guilty and sadness, to PB, which made Simon a psychopath

the "Winner" King just petted my peeve

Me while watching the episode: Oh my god I love this dude... He's... He's evil somehow isn't he?

When i saw that i had so many thoughts. Like i first thought that marceline found out what simon was doing to PB so she left him or something like that so he made an ice version for his perfect little world/kingdom