Visit us at.... www.coalcracke... or Follow us on Social Media for updates! / coalcrackerbushcraft / coalcrackerbushcraft and as always.... Stay in the Woods, Dan
After further examination of this I had teflon tape on the threads. I could see traces of it. So..the first time I opened this must have basically broke the seal. Then when I resealed I just screwed it on. Then storing it threads up was a terrible idea. If everything got moldy during the first 10 years I wouldn’t have resealed it. Will talk more about in a future video.
Don't use threaded ends. Double primer and liberal use of glue. Add a handful of moisture packages inside. Tape a hacksaw blade covered with shrink tube to the outside and you will have a dry stash. Even if the blade falls off and is lost a rock will break it open. I have a few stashs around the country.
I wonder if including a roll of plumbers tape would be worth throwing in something like that. So you can open and reseal it with its own contents. However. Seeing how long the plumbers tape will stay rubbery in those conditions would be a interesting experiment for the future. But you could always just hike in with some new tape also...
Waterproof proof grease on the threads. l use it on motorcycle axle seals, keeps them shiny new and moisture free literally for decades, in all sorts of weather conditions (and yes, l ride in the rain).
Tip for caching : put a moisture lock baby diaper in the bottom of your cache tube , and a few silicate desiccant pack to absorb ambient moisture in the air. Seal the threads on your end cap with lots of plumbers grease,it keeps water from creeping past the threads and makes getting the cap off easier
As a retired electrician, I can tell you that ALL electrical PVC conduits in the ground or concrete will always have moisture get into them. You can glue till the cows come home and moisture will find a way in. Buried deeper with moisture absorbers would probably help.
All conduits plastic or otherwise have 2 points where the water gets in. Where the wires go into the conduit and where they come out. Very rarely are those two points sealed air tight so as the barometric pressure goes up and down so does the air and the moisture level in the conduit. It is easy for the moisture to get in it is harder for the moisture to get out so water condenses in the conduit and builds up. It is not ground water it is water from the air. Bigger problem in humid areas than in dry areas. It is still a problem everywhere. It is not ground water it is water from the air. Even if you seal both ends depending on the length and volume of the conduit and the humidity in the air when sealed unless you purge the conduit with nitrogen when sealed it still will and can develop "dampness" inside. If you are old enough think about scopes that would fog inside as apposed to the "modern" scopes that now have o rings and are purged with nitrogen at the factory. As long as the o rings are good the scope will not fog. When the seals fail the nitrogen gets out and is replaced with "air" and the scope can fog.
Individual vaccum seal bags for each item or kit vaccum seal machines and bags that are cut to length can be found at wally world for a decent price...seal it and wait a day or two before you stow it away to make sure it's sealed tight then cache it. Thanks for the video to show learning lessons Dan for people just starting!!!
Not a bad idea, but I've sealed ammo in Foodsaver bags, only to find most had lost their seal after 5 - 10 years. Not bad, depending on how long you're planning on leaving stuff buried, and it still may keep most moisture out. Perhaps Mylar bags would be better. Regardless, sealing stuff in a secondary bag is highly recommended (his socks in the Ziplock bag were still dry). I would also add some desiccant packs.
You want perfect waterproofing? Put everything into a 4" PVC pipe. Cap it and seal it with silicone caulk. Then put the 4" pipe into a 6" pipe and fill the empty space in the 6" pipe with white lithium grease. Cap the 6 inch pipe and seal it with caulk.
1. Not buried deep enough, allowed condonation to build because of hot and cold cycles. 2. No moisture absorbers 3. No oxygen absorbers 4. Vucume seal your contents separately
@j.robertsergertson4513 perhaps, but it cannot hurt to go a little deeper. (Not what she sd) But seriously, a little deeper at more stable temps and less exposure to the heavy rains/snows would help.
I'm so glad you did this. Very surprising what we learned. I have one of these I buried on a family property 14 years ago. I should dig it up and see how it fared.
Some friends and I made a time capsule that exact same way - looked almost identical. We buried it for 5 years in a national forest, then went back and dug it up. The contents were still in perfect condition. I built the cannister and used teflon tape on the threads when sealing it shut. I also custom built a wrench out of PVC to open it and buied it with the capsule (since we would be back packing into the site to open and didn't want to have to carry any kind of tool).
Btw, Dan, Congratulations on over half a million subscribers!! Your channel is one of the best out there for short informative bushcrafting & survival tips, and I've been hoping you'd get noticed by more people for several years now. So...yaaaaaay!! 8D (Also, loved the kid's book you put out!)
Oddly, I just opened up an old survival kit myself this week...something I made with my scout troop about ten years ago. It was buried in a box in the basement, not the ground. Best thing I discovered in it was five bucks!
Flints are baby fero rods. Once they are struck they start to oxidize and deteriorate. Don't ever strike a lighter and put it away for long term storage. I have been sorry that I did that many times.👍👍Another tip for caching is to double vaccum seal your items. I have learned that once is not enough. A lot of times a single bag can get compromised. Been there, done that.😢
There are so many ways to make fire. I'd trust a hardened flint -n- steel steel to last longer than a ferro rod. Flint is not necessary, at least where I am. Pretty much any random rock (mostly pegmatite/quartz here) works as well, which is good since there's no flint to be had around here. Quartz does crack bits off, but it's plenty hard to make sparks. If it wasn't so available breaking would be a problem, but it's everywhere. If you need to be able to make expedient fire in an emergency a pack of waterproof matches in a waterproof bottle is hard to beat. Though a road flare is probably better for one off emergencies. Some of the chemicals are oxidizers and salts so plastic bag those flares/matches so they don't cause corrosion.
I wish there were a knife with a bit of hardened sparking steel on the handle. You probably don't want the blade that hard except maybe on the edge but then you don't want to ruin that by sparking against rocks. If you harden the whole blade spine it would become too brittle. Maybe a locking blade where the scales/handle part was hardened to make sparks..
I think others have alluded to this, but it's possible that the ambient air (when you packed it) was humid and the hot/cold of seasonal changes promoted condensation. I am of the opinion that moisture absorption would have been a huge benefit. I don't see the O2 absorbers being a major benefit, but having an anaerobic environment might could inhibit the mold growth. Also, I like the suggestions to separately bag (or vacuum seal) the items separately. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the vaseline-saturated cotton balls (sealed separately) were 100% good-to-go. GREAT TEACHING VIDEO, thanks for what you do, brother.
Great instructional video on how not to seal a pvc cache. Oh, and the tool arent ruined by a little oxidation and/or mold. They may not be as sharp as when new but with a little cleaning they will work just fine, especially in a survival situation.
Did you have Teflon tape on the threads? Put silicone seal around the edges of the plug as a backup. And drop in a moisture absorber from a piece of electronic equipment. Make sure to dry it out first though.
Awesome stuff. Thanks, Dan. From one brewer to another. If you drop a bucket into the ground, you need to tap the lid with a rubber or wooden mallet. Sealed isn't sealed until you do. Good luck.😊
I built a tube like this in 2017. That tube was buried in Virginia, then Southern Louisiana, then Florida. I opened it July of this year after we moved to Arizona. Everything was dry as desert sand. I sealed one end to max PSI rating for the PVC. I closed the other end with an expanding rubber test plug and I coated the rubber with Mobil 1 synthetic red tacky grease. It never evaporated or turned hard and the rubber kept it's seal intact. Food for thought.
I used to work in a plumbing field for years. Glue your joints well. To make sure they're set use primer When you glue your cap on twist in a clockwise motion before it sets to ensure that there are no leaks coming through your joint. For your threaded Cap. Put tafflon plumbers tape on the Threads that will ensure you have a water tight seal. Just first of maxture protection You can. Also, put some moisture packets in silica packets.Et.Cetera.
Dan, Great video on examining a ~12 year PVC Cache Survival Kit. Too bad a portion was not still viable. Perhaps the freeze & thaw cycles of PA weather over the years created just enough of a gap in the PVC sealed endcap that moisture got in. Probably a good idea to have every item in waterproof bags & ziplocks to add protection to the gear. Happy Trails! 🇺🇸🏕🌲
As a Geocacher I recognize the challenges of placing a sealed container in the woods under a log for years, hopefully, and keeping a log book and trinkets intact. The hot and cold cycles can have a dramatic effect on the level of condensation depending on the seal. Keep up the great work and post the coordinates and add a little log book to your cache and you may get some visits.
That's a good challenge. If you can hide that cache so that a bunch of geocachers can't find it. Then your cache is probably good. The question is if you'll find it though. Because any landmarks will be moved, changed or destroyed depending on how bad we (geocachers) want to find it. As a fellow cacher I also learned a long time ago never to place the threads up osmosis (unsure of spelling) will fuck shit up and water will penetrate.
@@DinJaevela friend’s brother built airboats out of aluminum. He built sealed square fuel tanks out of aluminum with no opening. After a year he got back to the fuel tanks and they had a tiny bit of water inside them.
@@DinJaevel This is a great point. Gravity will work in your favor. People naturally want to take the path of least resistance and bury the tube threaded end up. That way they don't have to dig the whole tube out to get the contents. In a way that's a good approach because you don't know what condition you'll be in or how long you'll have in that location before you have to leave.
What I have learned from pipefitters (30 yrs ago) Wass when you use PVC cement , push it together as hard as you can and turn it 90+ degrees so it will seal. Maybe that was the reason for leakage. The twist makes it seal like a pipe fitting thread.
Everybody already said what caused your moisture condensation. When I was younger I did the same thing you did on a smaller scale. I decided to leave strike anywhere matches in one of my camps in the woods inside a Mason Jar with a dome lid on it. I screwed the lid on tight and left it in a fork of a tree that was standing but hollow, a year or so later I remembered them and tried to retrieve my matches and they were all wet and useless
@@j.robertsergertson4513 Wellllll! Sometime in the late 90's - on a deer hunt - I felt the need to start a fire with my trusty "waterproof strike anywhere Matches - safely stored in a little metal container - with the screw on cap. NOT 1 of them ignited!!!! What to do? Got out the new fangled "Magnesium -/ Ferro block and started a fire! By this time the sun was down and the wind picked up! Had put the fire out right away. Bottom line? I always have 3 EASY ways to start a fire - when it can be done safely!
In Australia between October 1996 and September 1997, a total of 650,000 privately owned Guns were forcefully collected, in what was known as the Australian Gun Buy Back Scheme. Also at about this time a large number of Firearm Caches were buried. For legal reasons, these Caches had to be buried ‘off property’ of land owned by the Owner of said Firearm (less Charges if Cache was ever discovered by Authorities). Many of these Caches still exist and are regularly inspected by their Owners, as are the Semi Automatic Rifles they contain. Sometimes Government simply can’t be Allowed to Win.
Paul Harrell dug up an old cache a few months before he passed and did a video on it. Used a mil surp ammo can everything came out good to go including the pop tarts!
A few weeks ago I was sorting through some of my old camping gear to give to my son who was climbing the Brecon Beacons. I found a pack of lifeboat matches in a cook set. The orange plastic screw top cylinder type. They were at least 30 years old and have been on several kayak camping trips, kept as a back up. They struck first time. I'd definitely add a pack if I was burying a cache like this.
Put the tubes vertical into the ground and leave the top section sticking out about 5 inches. Then cover with decorative rocks or make it look like a natural rock formation also can go underneath a brush trees or decorative brushes, vines etc. then no worries of moisture getting into it as the top 5" will be above ground and no rain and moisture will be able to get into the tube. I've done tube testing like this, and did it exact like you did and had moisture fails just in 2 years. The above system works like a dream! Store firearms, food what ever you want, the secret is perfect location and discreet locations and having a tight cap with threads like you built.
Thats a great lesson for everyone to take note from. Obviously the common comment will be dessicant packs, but you can also make sure to oil or grease your tools before. And i would say there a planning to packing the items in a sequence so that the less worry some items are at the bottom as the moisture will go to the bottom.. great video!
Dan, Next time run a bead of sealant around the end-cap seams where it connects to the PVC pipe, the PVC sealant never really seals totally correctly, especially under hydrostatic pressure. If that doesn’t look like it’s enough, you call also use some duck-tape, aqua seal tape or flex tape to double seal the seams. Thanks for an actual answer to the cashe question of “will it leak”.
Plumber here, tape and dope the threads, but do not use rector seal, I’ve had really good luck with blue monster thread sealer plus it’s a lot easier to clean off your hands than rector seal. You’d still want the moisture absorbers and probably vacuum seal stuff in individual packs with their own little absorber backs inside. As a plumber I wouldn’t know if they naturally condensate since our stuff is always wet anyway. I’ve seen some people do what they call cluster caches where they put multiple abs or pvc tubes inside a poly barrel and then fill the barrel with sand to prevent it floating out of the ground during extreme rain
My personal feeling regarding the moisture issue is the pipe just wasn’t buried deep enough! As someone has already said, the hot/cold/wet cycle contributed to the partial damage you encountered. Realistically nothing was really beyond redemption, even the Bic with a little less heavy handling (😂😂) would have been fine!! If you’re not going to bury it arms length down (1mt/3ft) then all the other ideas, vac-pac, diapers etc, etc would need to come into play to give you a fighting chance! You could always do a side by side experiment 😂😂 regards from across the pond in deepest Dorset 👍
A little science for you. PVC, glass, or any other air tight container buried or unburied, even under full vacuum. Simple changes in temperature on the outside will change the air inside and create moisture. Always add some form of moisture remover to a sealed container if you don’t want moisture or rot.
The air sealed in it would have had some moisture. I would assume the constant changing temperatures of it being outside for 10 years would have allowed condensation to develop at some point.
I've gone through some old gear recently and I found a couple of Bic lighters that were frozen up and wouldn't strike. I replaced them with ferro rods with file strikers.
In addition to other suggestions presented here, sometimes putting a strong trash bag or can liner in the tube to hold the items, then sealing the bag, can help alleviate that issue, also. And, as you stated, it would appear you forgot to reseal the threads after the first inspection. All in all, a good type of cache, though.
For future versions you could drill a hole across block where wrench goes big enough to slide in a long screw driver that way if no wrench you could use a long rod. I used to work putting in sewer and water utilities and that's how we would sometimes do that to get into stubborn clean outs on sewers.
Was probably great the first 5-10 years. Also condensation. Single wall containers create condensation whenever there’s a sufficient temperature difference between inside and outside. Like your glass of sweet tea in summer.
Moister got in Around the threads on the cap. Next time bury it cap down. That will help. Also you can place a small garbage bag over the cap and tape it on. To seal it up. And can add a moister absorber inside. Will help.
Yup, pipe dope on the threads real heavy or use silicone caulk. Cut it open if you have to. Bury in vertical position with threaded end pointed down Even standing water can't enter when the air pressure is trapped.
Very interesting and informative video. Maybe if it had been buried deeper in the ground the water from condensation due to temperature changes would not have formed inside the tube.
Great video, thanks for sharing? What would you change if you were to make another? Time was not kind to that razor knife. Was it aluminum or magnesium? Maybe a stainless knife?
Score a ring around the inside of the pipe about 1/2 way through the schedule 40. Glue cap both ends, then a gentle tap on a rock on the scored end will break the pipe open.
We're usually to use these PBC tubes for Deerfield.What is strapped to the tree?Put a cap on the top and then it kind of let it run down on the last route fifteen years easy
As someone who as been responsible for underground communication cables for 30 years, it may shock many people, plastic is not a moisture barrier. Over time in the presents of moisture, moisture pasess through leading to eventual condisation. Certain metals and polimars are moisture barriers. The problem is a caches compose of or containing metal are easily detected with the right equipment. Early communication cables were sheathed in lead with no moistue intrution. Long ago even the Pharaol's sarcophagus's and other notable peoples' coffins were covered in lead to keep moisture from decomposing the body.
I even use 5 gallon buckets with lids that I seal for up to 3 years with no issues . We check them usually every 2 years , buy have left some 3 years . I have had up to 33 stashes at a time out there . But since the family have took over the tasks , there has been less .
I’d say the moisture in your cache came from condensation. Anywhere that you get frost in the ground you need to bury stuff below the frost line so it stays a consistent temperature. This takes away the temperature swings that will build up condensation.
Condensation is my first suspect. PA is cold enough to have the ground freeze. It would be interesting to see a test buried below local frost depth for a couple years.
Great video, gives you a lot of real insight. Moisture proofing is maybe the most important topic in long term storage, whether in a cache or somewhere else. I live in a monsoon region so I have won some experiences ... About the contents, I have to confess I do not really understand why many people put junk items in such caches. Means if it is seriously meant for survival and not just as a test, why would you put a box cutter into it instead of a simple but sturdy fixed blade knife, maybe something like a Mora? Or why an empty soup can instead of a simple stainless steel pot, e.g. a Stanley or something like that?
Young with not as much experience or budget answers the contents questions. If you dug that up in SHTF, you'd be happy with it. Even if it was all duplication of what you have, yet lesser quality. You now have barter fodder.
@@RobCalhounPGH I'd like to disagree. If you bury crap, you dug out crap. That's ok for fun but not for survival. If you really plan to survive with those items which you bury in the wilderness or in your garden, and you are currently a bit short of money, then why not wait another 2 weeks to get that extra 20$ saved it needs to get quality instead of burying today shere nonsense? I'm seriously concerned about the mindset of people who think they can survive with BS items and cannot wait til they have enough ressources for quality items which cost not really much more. I've seen too many videos about caches which contain only useless items which are totally unuseable after short term in a cache, and if they still function they are unuseable after second use. You see it also here: the cutter knife is gone, you cannot use it. And the soup can is a nice piece of junk, an improvisation, but nothing you can trust your life for a couple of years. And it has less use than any simple stainless steel pot which can be also used for digging or hammering etc, what you cannot do with that soup can. A good Mora knife costs you maybe 5 or 10 US$ more than a cutter knife. A simple stainless steel pot purchased in a Dollar Store costs you a Dollar or two. So what's the mindsed it you put in a kit which is in your opinion your last hope for survival a cutter instead of a Mora, and an empty soup can instead of a good stainless steel pot? And better don't talk about barter. Nobody would give you anything for a soup can or a wasted cutter in a SHTF situation. Or a broken BIC etc ...
I made one and used truck bed liner paint to seal up the entire cap and body of the pipe. I used Teflon tape on the threads and once ready to finish the cashe, painted the top with the truck bed liner paint. Everything inside was sealed in vacuum bags. This was done twice with oxygen absorbers in the first bag along with the item and then again in the outer bag before it was vaccusealed. I haven't opened the case so I don't know if the contents are good. Should be interesting to see how well I packed things.
Next time put some wax around the edges and maybe plumbers tape on the threads could also be condensation in which case just include a packet of silica gel like youd get in a purse or suitcase
Water probably didn't get into your cache. Probably condensation from the air inside the tube caused by hot and cold weather. All your met items needed was oil and wrapped up, then inserted in the tube with a desecant to absorb any residual moisture. This also is exasperated by your freeze thaw climate when burying above the frost line in the ground.
Yep, use the pink or extra thick Teflon tape, maybe leave a roll inside to reseal. I'd also put a few packets of that silica desiccant in as well to absorb any humidity that was sealed inside with it.
When it comes to caching... I've operated by one maxim for several decades : Just like when eating....'There's ALWAYS room for JELL-O", when you are caching.... "There's ALWAYS room for DESSICANT".
Sure, but understand how to use them. If you throw a silicone dry pack that's been sitting around at ambient humidity then put it in a container, it's already absorbed all its going to.
I'm curious if the blades stored inside that utility knife are still good? They usually come with a light layer of oil on them and I wonder if that helped keep them from rusting?
You had two problems. 1. the cap wasn't sealed as you found out. 2. Especially in the humid climate of the East coast unless you displace all of the air in the tube with nitrogen or Co2 the humid air in the tube still has enough water in it to cause problems. Seal your cache's on hot dry days, not always possible, for the best results. Also put in several opened hand warmers into the tube. The hand warmers are mostly iron powder which reacts with moisture in the air to produce heat. The chemical reaction will remove the water in the sealed tube making it dry inside (it works one time so if your seal leaks they will not help again much). Do not put the hand warmers against something that could be effected by the heat generated by the hand warmers. On a side note if your hand warmers are not working to warm your hands they need more air (moisture in the air) or they are shot. The strikers in the BIC lighters will weld themselves to the ferro rod that makes the spark in the presents of moisture over time so for the best results vacuum bag them before putting them in the cache. Or at least put them in a plastic bag that will seal well and get as much air out of the bag as possible before sealing them.
If it has threads on it its not waterproof, you have to use some sort of water proofing on the threads. Ziploc bags and silica packs too. This is how we learn, by doing. You'll know next time. 😊
10-12 years underground didn’t help things without desiccant bags to absorb the moisture. You need a rubber gasket to ensure a moisture barrier. In Pennsylvania, you get quite a bit of snow in the winter and a lot of rain during the rest of the year, multiply that by 10 or 12 years, that’s a lot of moisture. If you’re planning on using 5 gallon buckets for future caches, use buckets with rubber gaskets and desiccant bags to ensure a moisture free environment, and seal the bucket outside with duct tape and spray a rubberized sealant over the tape to seal the bucket one final time before burying it in the ground.
I’m guessing it wasn’t buried deep enough to where it’s a more constant temperature and probably wasn’t buried cap down? I’m glad it watched this video, thanks.
Pretty cool man. The tools all still looked workable. And, If you did not Edward Sledgehammerhands the lighter, it might of worked, hahaha. Push the flint down check rotation of striker and springablity, maybe the tiny spring dissolved yaknow. Is there some supplemental medium that could be customfoundmade (maybe in the wild even) that might adequately maintain decent dryness down there? Thinking reuse here, too. If you fill up the volume area, there will be less area for air to condensate. Some granularlike substance/es maybe? Fire dried sand and ground up punk wood combo? Clay cat litter and ground up packing peanuts? Would rice and beans work? haha, be nice to make it edible substance. Heat the cap by a fire before cranking it in might help. Drip a bunch of hot pine tar on there if you got some. Make the hole oversized enough for an insulation layer between soil and tube. Sand or gravel might have good reuse. Pine tar up a large leaf use it as a shingle on top of the cap. Thanks for all the cool content brother. I thought I subscribed many many moons ago, sheesh! Much more success to You and a few other bushcrafty people out there.
Water may not have infiltrated but if it was close to the surface like you mentioned then the temperature changes would cause condensation. Cool setup though!
we used them back in the 80s to stash our weed, cash, and guns.. guns have to be heavily oiled wrapped in oily cloth and plastic bags.. wouldn't hurt to keep a cleaning kit with it and a couple of boxes of ammo
Those screw on pvc lids do not seal for the long term. Even something like petroleum jelly on the threads would help, but I would do something more semi permanent
the cap is the weak part, try gluing both ends next time, back in the late 80's we tried storing metal rods for cleaning a sewer line along a shore line but the rods rusted despite the same set up you had. What is needed is a rubber seal if you are going to have a screw cap and try using vacuum sealed bags for items
The humidity in the air that was trapped in the container released its moisture at some point. Also some plastic materials like the trash bags and tarp release moisture as they breakdown in age.
They do make cans of pressurized nitrogen gas for wine affeciandoes. The idea is to purge the bottle with dry nitrogen gas to eliminate oxygen and moisture. Considering on can fro your favorite wine store should do a decent job a purging the cylinder but it wouldn’t hurt to invest in a second container. If your a welder and have argon gas available that can also be used to purge the cylinder. Don’t forget a desiccant bag and oxygen absorber just in case. Also doing a double tube is a good idea. It will keep the freezing ground from directly impacting the main storage cylinder. You can also try and find sheets of mastic waterproofing material. Wrap the outside of the tube with this should something crack the tube there is less chance of moisture penetration. Another reason why the military packed stuff in cosmoline. It’s a pain to remove, it does a great job at keeping moisture away from metals that can rust. BTW, flint that is not protected in wax or cosmoline will oxidize and expand in the lighter rendering the lighter useless. One reason why Zippo flints are painted red. If oxygen can’t get to the material, it will not oxidize and swell. I recently had to drill out the flint tube of an antique lighter that sat around for several decades. NOT an easy task.
I agree, silica packets would have helped. The mold would have been from whatever moisture was in the air when you sealed it. The cool bottom and warm top of the tube would have caused condensation.
