Diesel Engines in EMD F7 Locomotive 

fastold carz they keep me running in Cuba

BCS Technology Limited..... Very well stated. Of course with the advent of the series 645 prime mover in the mid 1960's (64?) they optioned the engines with a single thermatic clutch driven axial flow turbo, and though there was initial "issues" with the clutch drive (clutch material, basically) causing some class 1's to derate (go back to NA configuration with Roots blowers) while EMD sorted out the issue, which of course they did when they started utilizing Ceramic clutches to deal with the heat. It's amazing to myself how So Many people in the world of high performance gas, alcohol and nitro engines (ie; drag racing, street rods, etc, etc, etc) keep referring to roots type blowers (positive-displacement, as you so aptly pointed out) as "superchargers" when they are, in fact... Not. I was quite involved in various classes of drag racing (front and rear engined dragsters ["rails"]) for about 20 years, and spent a lot of time trying to explain to other racers the difference between a positive-displacement blower (air mover/pump) and an actual "supercharger" that compresses a given amount of air mass between its intake and exhaust ports producing actual boosted air pressure, versus air that becomes "pressurized" between the blower and the cylinders strictly due to back-pressure because the blower is pumping a greater amount of air mass faster than the engine can ingest it as well as actual cylinder capacity... resulting in a "false boost". I guess it doesn't help though, when everyone has been constantly bombarded through ads by all the different manufacturers of high performance parts habitually calling the roots type blowers.... "superchargers"!... ever since Barney Navarro mounted and V-belt drove a 3-71 blower (came off a 3-71 Detroit [then known as GM Diesel Power] from a WW2 landing craft, on his roadster he ran on "the flats" with a destroked Ford flathead. Boss Kettering (Charles) was the first CEO of GM Diesel Power during it's development years.... and I personally studied Diesel Engine Design & Theory for four years, the last three of which was under P. Nicholas who had just retired from R&D at GM Diesel Power (Detroit Diesel after 1965)... and who took it upon himself to personally "tutor" me in the intricacies of GM Diesels (2-cycle, of course).... that was back in the 60's from 1963 to 1967. I have an 8x10 B&W hanging over my desk here, of he, Boss Kettering and one other R&D Engineer taken just after they fired up their prototype for the first time (Nov. 1938)... and it was a 4-71, but as we know... it was the 6-71 that first went into production in 1939. Thanks for you narrative... well put.

Thank you for posting this. I always wondered if Detroit Diesel had anything to do with the building of these engines. And of course we know that General Motors spun off EMD in 2005 and it has changed hands a few times to end up basically being owned by Caterpillar who is now installing their own manufactured engines in the locomotives.

Wikipedia says that EMD had production runs of the 645 prime mover from 1965-1983 with some limited runs through the 90's. Not sure what that means exactly, unless they had some customers that still continued use of the 645 engine.

This engine is definitely not exactly a Detroit Diesel, but is was developed as part of the GM 2 stroke diesel development of the 1930s. I have read that there was collaboration between the devisions in the development.

It is, just counted the exhaust exits and there were 4 on this side...

What about ALCo?

And GE's?

Intel & Nvidia SUXXZZZ!!!, HAHAHHAHAHA

Emd’s are the best because you can still find parts for them easily. Alcos are a bitch to find and the older the GE the harder it is to find parts. I might be the only one in the US who has access to a gasket to a GE44 tonner fuel filter... it’s stressful.

@@Xyb3rTeCh turbo failure

Prior to the development of the AR10 traction alternator in the early 1960s, all EMD locomotives were equipped with a commutated main generator that could be used as a motor to crank the prime mover. As the AR10's output is rectified by silicon diodes, rather than commutated, it cannot be used to crank the prime mover, necessitating the use of the two starting motors.

Thanks for that information, I did not know that about the older first generation ( I assume ) locomotives.

emdman1959 Spaziani..... "they basically look like supersized GM starter motors".... the starter motors you're referring to (from GM's Delco Division) are actually what were used (and still, currently are) on diesel engines in semis, except of course... only one is needed, not two. I think EMD should have worked with GM's Delco division to actually develop a starter motor(s) that would have been up to the task better, rather than just taking "off the shelf" starters for much smaller diesels, cubic inch wise - not to mention turning Much Less rotating mass and weight, like they did.

General Motors utilized as many "off the shelf" parts as they could to save costs. In their locos with roll down windows they used the window regulator from some models of their cars. The Aerotrain used Oldsmobile windshields in the locomotive and they used GM bus bodies for the rolling stock. Who knows what else they used.

So if the gen is the starter where is the cranking energy coming from?

railbus5 Yeah the peak power is at around 1800-2000 rpm, max speed is around 2200 rpm. Smaller displacement engines rev more so 6-7 liters 6 cylinders max out around 2500 rpm. Not just the cummins 5.9, pretty much all of them do: Mercedes OM926, Volvo D7, MAN D0836 etc. Higher rpm might not bring more power but is used when you activate the exhaust brake and need more braking power.

Pickup class engines will spin to just under 4000 rpm, granted peak torque is well below that.

While we're nit picking, the EMD 567 engine is a "medium speed" diesel. The true low speed diesels would be like the wartsila sulzers found in container ships. Maximum rpm would be around 100 - 110 rpm . As opposed to the 900 - 1050 rpm maximum of the Caterpillar, EMD, and GE locomotive diesels.

Where the water pumps replaced. The original ones on this one are usually silver or black or grey

Aren't you special!?

The EMD 567 series can have one or two blowers. And, it's primary function is more to "scavenge" the cylinders of exhaust while blowing in clean air than to actually "supercharge". Search "two stroke diesel" for more. It's really quite interesting. Even more interesting are the later models that use a gear driven turbocharger instead of a roots type blower. At a certain throttle setting the gear drive gives way (de-clutched) to the exhaust turbine with takes over driving the air compressor impeller.

Apparently the first , quote: "useful" diesel locomotive was used in Kiev in 1924. McKeen produced a petrol-powered railcar in 1911. The Swiss tinkered with diesel-electric for about ten years prior to 1924 , but there appear to be no remaining examples - or images. Unusual.

​@@hughvane I am sort of surprised that it took so long for diesels locomotives to take hold. They had successful diesel electric submarines in the 1910's, so I would think it would be easier to apply similar technology in a locomotive. Even today, a lot of locomotive engines have marine applications. I think even the engine type in this locomotive was used in marine applications. One thing I do recall reading was that the price per horsepower for constructing a diesel was many times more than constructing a similarly powered steam locomotive, so that may have been a factor.

Yes you may drop one in a Miata, easily or on the Miata...

the valves are just for exhaust.

Yes exhaust valves

8V92 is in that ballpark, 2400 maybe...

Not to mention what's in pickup trucks, they'll do just under 4k wide open.

kleetus92 well small pickups yes But big trucks with 4litres and up no

kleetus92 and I am taking about modern engines Not any 2-stroke old crap

International DT series will run well past 2500, or at least some of models did.

Zergling yes because it's a 2 stroke

NO. No supercharger. Roots blowers are for mechanical scavenging, as sorta explained. Exhaust valves open before induction ports are uncovered. Then air blown into manifold enters ports for next cycle, pumping out remaining exhaust gases. Easily researched. Don't confuse with blown 4-strokes.

There is no comparison between steam and diesel. Apples to oranges. Each one has its good point and its bad points.

@@williamjones4483 Steam has no good points lol

Eileen Wysocki are you ok?

And the one he showed was an 8V92 not a 6V92 as he said.