When I make a clone, my prime has started glitching them and takes several tries, sometimes boomy and the sag just makes it louder. How do you overcome these issues if you have them?
Yea, if you get a chance I think you should try it, I thought it had just a bit of an edge on Tonex when I tried to compare the captures of the same amp.
🤣 Thanks for putting that to rest. Give NAM some time. It seems really cool, but is still very new with a lot of development taking place. Maybe give it a shot when it is more mature and they've nailed all of the features.
I continue to be impressed with the Tone X. It’s just a bit closer than all the others of its kind. The plug-ins are also quite good. Nice work here, Jon
I would love to see more content like this: amps versus their recreations. Great stuff! I'm glad after buying the CB4 it did not suck in comparison to the rest
i m really astonished at the quality of the tonex and the headrush, where only the slight differences in the dynamics give clues, but would be indistinguishable for me in a blind test imho.
There's definitely a congestion between 800hz-2khz present in all of the models (except tone x, which is great and just lack a bit of sub lows I think) especially compared to the tone you got with the original which make it sound wayyy clearer and bigger! The saturation emphasis varied a lot too. Still great stuff!
The real Amp sounded great! It was in your face, clear, bold, articulate, with good note/string separation. The Modelers tended to sound flat/one dimensional, distant, and kind of blah. ToneX was pretty good, but my favorite was the Brainworx. It was the only one that got close to capturing the essence of the Diezel. I hope in future comparisons and shootouts, you will be able to include the NAM, as it may be able to get closer to emulating the real Amp than any of the other Modelers. Thanks
The curious thing is that I found the fractal just better than amplitube (much better, because the AT model is unusable, but still worse than basically everything else)
@@markuso1862 to me, the helix and amplitube are the only ones that really stuck out as being either "meh" or "not even remotely close" ToneX and the fractal were the nicest 'sounding' ones to my ear, headrush prime has a fizzy sound to me (unfortunately experienced this in person as well), and the BW plugin and CB4 are very close as well, but the presence is a touch off, though it still sounds great. Different individual units of amps can have slight variance as well, so it's possible that his VH2 literally just sounds better than the other VH4s that were modeled.
Great comparison Jon, I think that the least accurate is the Helix. Anyway, I have the Brainworx plugin and a 2014 VH4, the plugin is based on a VH4 with KT77 so I think this makes a tiny difference in the overall sound, but not by much. Love the real amp, absolutely stunning. Watching this video I now understand that's not me, the Brainworx plugin has less gain.
That legit VH2 might be one of the best things you've bought imo. I'd never sell it if I could produce tones like that one. Love this video concept. The real thing is in a different league to the rest of the models (even the tonex) imo, and at this point, I'm splitting hairs here. Normally I wouldn't fuss about such a small change, but the VH is a special amp that makes special sounds.
VH2 > Tonex > Axe FX and Brainworx tied > CB4 > Helix > Headrush > Amplitube. I'm a long time Helix user and a new Tonex user. The Tonex is now going into the loop of the Helix.
The real truth is that any of these will work in a mix. After going through the mixing and mastering process, any differences between these are moot as they will most likely be changed from the original tone.
Nice comparison. I've always had the impression that the treble knob on the Helix needs higher settings compared to the real amp. But now I think the sag masks the attack and should be around 2.5.
The Helix is definitely missing high frequencies. It’s such a common thing with its amp models that it makes me suspect it’s a DSP limitation, where it just doesn’t have the power to render that high frequency content. The Axe FX embarrasses the Helix here. And I say this as a Helix owner.
@@400_billion_suns I'm sure this is a tremendously false statement, whatever is lacking, specially in the high frequency spectrum, it's because they didn't add it, not because it can't reproduce due to "lack of power". If anything I'd see that happening on the low end, as the low end is harder to reproduce, never the high end frequencies. If anything, they deliberately removed the very highest end to stop that digital plastic feeling you get from modeling. A proper guitar speaker is rated up to 5000 to 6000 Hz, anything higher is just harsh and wasted. Don't forget that whatever you're hearing through this compressed utube video can still be shaped, it's just a matter of Jon adding whatever you feel like it's missing in the EQ, he set it as he liked it best and that doesn't mean that you can't increase the high end in the mix from whatever he gave you to listen :v
@@400_billion_suns That's a total misunderstanding of how modeling works. There are plenty of bright models in Helix: Soldano, Revv, Engl etc. Also there are real Diezels around from the 90s that are even darker than the one in the Helix - one of those is modeled in the AxeFx and called Dizzy VH4 Blue. I have an both to compare btw.
@@paulschlachter4313 I’m not just referring to overall brightness (which is a vague term that doesn’t identify specific frequency ranges). I’ve been able to identify the Helix in almost every shootout Jon has done because it typically sounds less open in the highest frequencies vs. Fractal and the real amp. For lack of a better term, the Helix sounds “narrower” while the real amps sound almost like a stereo field, even though both are mono, and the reason is the missing frequency content in the high treble. If you listen in good quality headphones, it’s very noticeable. As soon as it switches to the Helix, it’s as if the sonic field shrinks. The reason I mentioned DSP is that higher frequencies are more prone to aliasing, and the way around it is increased oversampling, which takes more DSP. If there are audible artifacts even with the max oversampling the Helix can handle, then chopping off the high frequencies would be another way to “fix” it, but you’d end up with an audible consequence, much like I’m hearing in this clip. I’m not saying for sure that’s the reason why, but it does seem like there is a consistent limitation with the Helix that causes it to perform worse with the highest frequencies vs Fractal, consistently.
@@400_billion_suns Is high oversampling really important for guitar? I mean sure - if you plug an overdrive pedal between guitar and modeler you'll get some HF overtones. But just guitar? There might be a slight change in the transients and a lower noise floor - but the note itself doesn't contain stuff above say 10kHz. I've measured the preamps' frequency response of both Helix and the two Fractal Diezel's VH4 channels with white noise and it clearly showed a difference in high end response - the Helix is right in between the two models of the Fractal models. Looks like one or two diffenent coupling caps somewhere in these preamps. Peter Diezel has stated himself that he tunes each individual amp by ear. So I think what you are attributing to technical issues are more likely different preferences in choosing amps to model of the different companies. The main difference that I hear between Helix and Fractal as well as my tube amp is that Helix's amp models have quite low 'sag' defaults in comparison.
great video Jon! The real amp really sounds much better here, kind of disappointing to hear none of the others QUITE capture the magic. ToneX is pretty good but there's still something nice missing.
@@SonicDriveStudio I think especially because the VH4 has constantly had small tweaks to the circuit over the years. So even 2 real amps could have slightly different circuits to each other. But yours certainly sounds great, I really prefer the brighter sounding Diezels.
The real amp is so punchy and much more "in your face" in the lower frequency spectrum. While the overall sound of most of the models is very convincing, it lacks this feel for me. Of course this is when you compare it A/B with isolated guitars here. In a full mix, I don't think this will make a really noticeable difference - so the question is what you want, your priorities, budget, convenience, ... 😉 Very impressed by the CB4 and especially Brainworx plugin... 😳 The Amplitube's sound is really weak in comparison tbh. Not a fan of the Helix either... And the Axe-FX III has some weird fizzy quality somehow... not a bad sound overall but a bit disappointing if you look at the price.
I typically find isolated heavy gain guitar to sound harsh, no matter what, even if it sounds great in the mix. But that Diezel is just so delicious..... I could listen to it isolated all day! Tonex was impressively close. This confirms my experience with Brainworx emulations too... there's just so much detail missing in the high mids and presence that pushes it back - doesn't sound "in your face" like the real thing. Amplitube is just "KSHHHHHHHHHH" like the TV in Poltergeist.
Hi Jon! Fantastic video! Would you consider making an updated video with Boss Katana MK2 and possibly Katana Artist? It's such a popular amp and I'm sure many would be interested to see, how it's stacking up against some of the other amps you own! Cheers!
I think that plugins have gone a long way through the years and most (if not all) of the companies have really nice solutions. There are some acoustic differences of course, but in the end of the day how these plugins/modelers can stand in a live concert, or in a mix? Would anyone care about such differences?
Loved this comparison, great video 👍 one thing I will say is Diezels have a great master volume control. They sound fantastic at low to higher volumes but damn once you crank the master volume to 1 o’clock and the power amp juuussssttttt starts to saturate the amp really opens up and becomes a different beast absolutely awesome 🤘
Well, if you want exactly that Diezel sound, then you should buy that exact Diezel amp. Admittedly, I've been fooled into buying a total of 5 modelers because RU-vid reviewers made them sound good. Honestly, in a mix, you won't hear a difference between a modeler and the real thing. However, the player will definitely feel the difference in attack, articulation of notes, sustain and sag. You have to play differently on a modeler compared to a cranked valve amp. I got rid of most of my modelers and bought a BluGuitar Amp 1. It has an awesome valve sound. It does JCM800, 45 and good clean tones. Of course, it doesn't have the effects and programmability of a modeler but that's why I kept my Ampero - solely for the effects. There are options other than modelers.
I'm really considering getting the tonex pedal. It's almost a no brainer considering it comes with the tonex software AND amplitube 5. Only issue is it won't run any effects you add through amplitube on its own (as i understand it), so using it as a portable headphone device doesn't come without some sacrifices.
The Tonex pedal is cool, the software crashes for me on windows 10, 11 it’s fine, amplitube 5 sounds muddy And the fake hiss you can never turn off. I’m not a fan, headrush prime love it, my helix stuff love it.
I had an eleven rack, then a friend gave me his headrush gig board. I'm not a fan of how it sounds. I also owned several line 6 products and didn't care for them either.
@@redkurn IK Support would be happy to help you with the TONEX software crashing. Runs great on Windows 10 for me and others, I'm sure they can help. We also don't add any "fake hiss" in AmpliTube - high gain amps will have some noise and since we always use the real amp for our gear (including the $145,000 Dumble we bought) we do provide a realistic experience. I hope this helps and hope IK Support can help you get TONEX running well. They can also help you find out why your AmpliTube sounds muddy.
yeah they all obviously will sound a bit different but the actual question is how different would they sound on a mix? sure, the raw tracks will showcase all the differences but on an actual recording with an actual band, where you end up removing some of the low end, and a big chunk of the high end, and add bass, drums, vocals and so on I bet it'll be quite hard to tell them apart. Also, on a vacuum, nobody will be able to tell on a recording "hmmm that sounds like an emulation and not like a real diezel". Not to mention, it doesn't really matter if it sounds identical or not, the only thing it matters is: Does it have a pleasant sound? does it sound good?
awesome vid Jon! clear winner for me, Tonex, even it doesn't sound exactly the same. In 2nd place CB4. Have you done the capture in advanced mode? Cheers
@@SonicDriveStudio interesting! this is the first capture I heard which doesn't sound "that close", but still good enough and better then the other available options.
I was hoping there would be a quad cortex version but alas… Most of the plugins sound alright, yet with a shifted MiD point, which makes them a bit muddy in comparison to the real amp. I agree that the Tone X is the closest
Thank you for this video Jon! Your previous comparisons of the Tonex and others were what convinced me to pick up a Tonex of my own. Do you have plans to load your Diezel capture onto TonetNET? Cheers Jon!
bolo.......i like diezel.... i have a zoom multi pedal amp head sim........i saw the diezel and it is boss/......... solid....bass nice.......rock on............rock will never die 1955 to forever........
The Helix, as often seems to be the case, is missing the high frequencies which give the sound openness/airiness/sparkle. Because of that the Helix sounds stuffy, and narrower than the real amp. The Axe FX gets a lot closer, with a much better rendering of that high frequency content, which again is a typical thing I hear in other comparisons. It actually makes me wonder if there is a technical limitation with the Helix, where it just doesn’t have the DSP horsepower to render those high frequency details without a bunch of aliasing so they just chop it out. TONEX sounds great as expected, but it’s actually missing some of that high frequency sparkle too. Overall, TONEX is closer than the Axe, but in terms of a fully-rounded amp tone without missing frequencies, I think the Axe is actually the best of all of them. Well, except for the real amp of course. Because that amp sounds KILLER.
Hey brother ! another great video.... love my VH2 as well... where in the world did you get those shelving units for all the amps ? keep up the great work !
Thanks for the video, that was done perfectly. Did you use the advanced (highest quality) capture mode on tonex? It definitely sounds the closest to me but still lacks a bit of that nice character in the lows, especially while palm muting. Still, I‘m always impressed by tonex and it‘s the most satisfactory digital amps I‘ve used!
the low chugs on the headrush were very disappointing compared to the real deal. Tonex was also a little less satisfying but close enough for rock and roll
I got an fm3 and ive tried the vh4 model and i could never get it to sound good. My favorite model in the fm3 is the engl savage but im falling out of love with it because for some reason my Fishman pickups dont really work well with my modeler. It gets farty when i do palm mutes. Ive tried everything and i cant get rid of it.
to me the CB4 might sound the Closest, I have many of other ML models I'll probably end up with that one when on sale , I have the Brainworks it's Nice SECOND place, I have Tonex and Amplitube 5 but don't have the Pedal might get that eventually , I do have a original Headrush pedal board not sure if i'm going to upgrade to prime I'd have to get good money for the original it's almost in brand new shape!. Helix is Good ! the THIRD closest to my ears, don't own it , Fractal is ok don't have . I'm curious about the synergy pre amps it's not modeling but they do have the pre amps Hardware of a lot of nice amps including the some Diezels in rack mount form . I guess do it again with the real Diezel VH2 amp , what about Kemper and also the Synergy DH4 model ! and not to forget that Quad cortex that I'm not to familiar with. that would be a bad ass follow up.
4:30 I don't like this setting that much even on THE real amplifier, it's too muddy for me when it comes to the palm muted notes. No offense. :) Edit: It's not the most similar to it, but here I liked the ML Sound Lab plugin the most.
The real thing is amazing and the real thing is the one that has the best value. what's the real thing? İf on stage and have the large van to carry; the amp İf you are ok with buying used gear and wanna keep 4-5 years and sell it; one of the hardware units If you need to record, edit fast; software All of these sounds are 👍 in the hands of a seasoned engineer.
Overall - as an AXE FX II user (looking to get an used Helix LT, for an portable option) - nothing completely captures the raw bite and transients of the original amp, but they all sound very good, and in an mix, it'd be almost impossible to tell once everything has been compressed an EQ'd into place etc...
I mean - some of the best guitar tones I've ever heard have been from units like the POD XT haha... it's all about the performance, then the tone, then the production. Get any one of them wrong, and it'll sound like crap.
@@Sound_Stable it's not that dude, I make plenty of videos without sponsors. The workflow isn't good imho, maybe it will be in the future though. For my personal use Tonex just sounds close enough AND I can load those into a pedal.
Less organic and less tube feel? Out of the box maybe, but here's the solution: Put a para eq after your clone on the Headrush and it will sound even more real than the amp, IMHO
Agreed. It wasn’t a perfect match to the real amp, but it was the only one of the modelers or the plugins which wasn’t missing the high frequency detail. I’m surprised this doesn’t get mentioned more in comparisons like these. The Helix is the worst of the bunch in this regard. Maybe most guitarists have played so loud for so long that they can’t hear above 6kHz anymore? 😂
@@400_billion_suns ah yess . loudness messes sound . thus it beeing more open in volume and haveing difference in curve of preception . try it. to listen to music at 40% of your capability and then on 80% or 100% you will hear a different soundstage . dont know why but thers a treshold to the best sound due to it less volume its kinda thiner but more drumms come out ect …
