Discussing The Legality of Using OC Spray (John’s Briefs) 

I twice spayed the same dog, first time I sprayed too soon and he hit the cloud and backed up barking, the second time he was closer when I saw him coming I caught him full muzzle and eyes, he shot back through the hole under his fence and I hope went inside and shared it with his owners. The hole under the fence that had been there for weeks was suddenly fixed. I did not stay around long enough to discuss it with the owner.

you're healthy enough to try to rob/hurt me, then you're healthy enough to get this hot sauce...

I got me my wife and daughter the POM spray after watching your ASP channel. We both have our ccw permit and really never thought of a oc spray but after watching your videos I see that its smart to have both.

To simplify it: in most states, if a person is legally justified in shoving or striking another person in self-defense, then they'd be legally justified in using OC spray. Of course, a person should always read their own state's self-defense law.

If you act like a demon, you get blessed with the hot sauce 🌶️!!

Of possible interest: Asthma attacks often have two primary features: 1) bronchospasm, the clenching of muscles around the airways that restricts airflow and 2) a histamine reaction with lot of mucus production. While your spray may have some effect as a bronchodilator, relaxing the bronshospasm, it is likely to result in heavy mucus production which may fill the asthmatics already narrow airways and result in death. Don't assume that the spray will be nonlethal to a person with asthma.

I conceal carry and also carry POM. If all you have is a firearm, it becomes your first and only option which can lead to a world of legal hurt. If possible, I'd rather spray and get the heck out of the area. Obviously if it's a life and death situation, I'm pulling my gun. I'm 63 with one back surgery already, so getting hands on is not going to work out well for me.

Pepper Blaster in front pocket . Glock at my side.

I’ve been in my share of physical fights, since I started carrying I won’t engage in that anymore. Not because I’m scared to hit or be hit, but because of the chance the other person sees, grabs, takes my firearm and now it’s escalated. Yea personal space, weapon retention and all that...

I did the same. After watching John, I started carrying some hot sauce, myself. I do have a permit to carry but it's a good idea to have a first option. I went with Fox Labs 5.3M SHU POLICE PEPPER SPRAY . I fits perfectly in a mag pouch and I carry it right next to my spare mag.

You can never just take a butt kicking because that "one punch" could knock you out and that person could then end your life. Always do what you have to in order to neutralize the enemy!

Thanks Terry and John.

Thank you guys I love the channel because it not only covers from a tactical perspective but also a legal perspective. Thanks John and Chuck. Stay safe guys

Needs better instructions: I recently replaced my EDC albuterol inhaler with POM self defense spray.... the results were startling...😜

I carry POM, thanks for this lesson!

Great points made …I have OC and never thought I’d have to use it. It’s reassuring to know you have a tool to fallback on if either a human threat or animal threat comes at you….

I've deployed OC 4 different times in my year and a half in corrections and trust me this stuff works. Now in situations where drugs are at play, OC may not work

I'd rather explain myself to twelve calm people than one crazy person...

Purchase two six packs a couple months ago. Haven't had to use it, although my family has sprayed a few for practice just in case.

Thank you

Sometimes a butt kicking turns into a lethal attack without provocation. Who's to say once u let someone attack you that it'll o ly end in a butt kicking.

Excellent advice on Pepper Spray Use of Force.

I ordered POM for my girls. I saw the video and was impressed. Good stuff.

If you can convince a Jury that you felt an imminent threat, you can likely use spray and get away with it. He was walking towards me, His fists were clenched, he was swearing at me, he stated he was going to kick my ass, He had a stick in his hand, etc... as against... We were discussing the election and he raised his voice and said I was an idiot, so I sprayed him..... It is always good to have witnesses and especially video.

Loose pit bull charged me and missed biting me out of nowhere on my morning run yesterday. Used Sabre pepper spray during Mexican standoff. Missed it by inches. Baught farther reaching Sabre gel spray immediately after.

I carry sabre.

One of our employees had asthma and was sprayed in an altercation between two girls .I'm sure not all sprays are the same. It did kill him. Sad he was 24.

I sprayed myself the one military grade for bears! Not good! But it did clear my nose and lungs!

welcome back to Detroit. Your vid on the Detroit airport is exactly what happened with me there previously (flying both Delta and Southwest)

I carry Sabre

so it's "a salt" when they don't deserve it, but when they do, it's "hot sauce"... 😜

I wish spray can size specs would've bewn covered. We have a can size limit here in California.

The first part of this discussion deals with prosecutorial arguments that could be used against the self-defender. The main point is to only use the jerk sauce if there's no other evasive action. How do you do that? You think about it, extensively.

So you can use it to stop a fight before it happens

The only thing I dont like about POM is the canister design has very poor oriention. So if you pull it, you really dont know where the front is so you have to find the thumb lockout before you can deploy it. I hope they take a look at that design in the future and make some improvements.

Baught 2! Thanks for this video. Very informative!

As always, great discussion!

I got the Sabre red gel on recommendation from a cop who’s a friend. How do use it one time end it was a fairly windy day, actually stopped two guys who were out to hurt me during a traffic altercation. I can tell you this stuff worked and I hardly got any blow back.

Such a good conversation

Such valuable information. Thank you!

Good information. I just looked up Texas law and they permit the use of pepper spray. Texas allows its use but limits size of container to 4 oz. I have a question related to disparity of force and consideration of a non lethal response to 'allow someone to kick my butt. Let's assume I'm carrying legally at the time. The situation could quickly degenerate to a scenario where the person assaulting me sees I have a weapon, takes it and kills me thereby changing what I thought was non lethal to deadly.

So we're supposed to ask them if they got any asthma or any condition that might hurt him further before we spray him

So the argument here is that a chemical that leaves literally no lasting impairment/damage is worse than getting into a physical confrontation? This makes absolutely no sense. Getting sprayed, as unpleasant as it is, would be a lot better than taking strikes to the face/body or ending up with broken/ dislocated limbs. I think it would be very arguable that using OC IS doing the least damage possible. Generally speaking, if you get in a fight both of you are getting hurt, potentially seriously. The fact that the lawyer doesn't know the properties of OC spray and that it has been tested and demonstrated to be massively unpleasant, but not harmful, makes me very wary of the advice presented. I'd love to hear more legal opinions from the audience regarding this topic.. any lawyers out there?

John, I'm a lifelong asthmatic, I had a CABG about 8 years ago, and I am a Respiratory Therapist with 25 years in the field. I have been hesitant to carry pepper spray out of concern that I might disable myself, or worse, if I had to use it and caught some of it myself. You are the first person I have ever heard say it is a bronchodilator. I am searching for more information on that. If you have any links or additional information on OCs bronchodilation effects, or it's effects on asthmatics could you please share them? Thank you.

I just emailed FLP about this! 😂 Reading my mind... Or emails haha

Need to tll you about my POM spray. I hand soaked my jeans for half hr in soapy water, put thru 2 rinses and only then did I find my POM went thru it! Did it work?? You betcha! 10-12 ft right after. Excellent stuff!!

Great VIDEO love these chats, may I share with an upcoming security class. Just a good chat to have and more things to think about.

Bear spray 🐻 REALLY hurts too! 🥵 I learned that in Grand Teton Natl Park 🏞 about 6 weeks ago!

Thanks for the video.

I’d argue that, if lethal force is justified, you don’t have time to “test” using OC spray. You’d be legally justified, but I don’t think it’s wise to attempt, because you may use up your only chance to react on an option that may not work.

Thank you so much for this video john, I was really found this video helpful. Also I picked up some Pom through your link a few weeks ago!!

With regard to the portion of the conversation relating to the use of pepper spray on people with asthma, I recommend that you request the Material Safety Data Sheet from the manufacturer of your OC spray dispenser. (By law, they must provide it to you upon request.). Many MSDSs specifically warn of potentially severe adverse respiratory reactions to the exposure of Oleoresin Capsicum by asthmatics and others with respiratory conditions.

My crystal ball broke last week; so I'm gonna have a hard time knowing if my attacker has asthma or not. 🤷

Hey it’s Johns briefs >> 🩲

Hi fellas I thank you for this discussion... Greetings from just south of Detroit. 👍🏼 I’m a loyal viewer and would love to catch a class if your up this way teaching. I need to do a better job watching your site.

I’ve had FIrearms LP for 3 years now and I didn’t know they will cover me if I had to use my POM spray. I’m a big guy and could probably handle myself in a fight but I’ve had a l5-s1 fusion, and at the risk of breaking a screw in my back over some clown I’m going to spray them.

Question.. If I feel an imminent threat of physical bodily harm and I OC that perp and he has a panic attack and dies as a result of that, why would I become prosecuted and charged with his death when I did not know his current medical condition and used OC in my personal defense for my well being against harm???? OC is less than lethal..

This just became super relevant with Denver shooting of man using pepper spray, who was then shot by unlicensed “security” hired by 9 News in a Denver. Some are trying to claim shooter was justified because shooting victim was about to use pepper spray.

Very good information! Thanks!

What if you issue a verbal threat first that you are going to spray and they continue to advance on you or act aggressively? I feel like that could make a difference.

The only OC spray I've ever been exposed to was during my time working for the state. That spray was a OC/CS mix. It was uncomfortable, to say the least. Has anyone experienced the relative difference between pure OC spray vs OC/CS spray? I get the feeling that what I experienced isn't what the bad guy will experience if I hit them with POM.

Opinions on DPS Black label? Also, since OC spray is considered ordinary force, and I'm legally allowed to use ordinary force to stop someone from stealing my property, I'm legally allowed to spray someone with OC engaged in theft of my property, correct?

I nearly had to shoot an aggressive dog once. A careless lady was walking it on a leash right towards me, and made no attempt to restrain it as it lunged out at me. She literally pretended to not even notice. If I'd been carrying pepper spray on that day, I would've blessed Mr. Puppy with the hot sauce and gladly deal with the fallout to follow.

Where can I find POM that will deliver to Detroit? Hey John, I didn’t know you were coming to my home town!! How long you in Motown??

Do you have to call the cops after using pepper spray like you would with using a firearm?

Can you use OC in 3rd-Party encounters to stop an assault against another person or to stop a theft against property, not necessarily against person?

Love these videos...keep them coming!

Don't forget to use the verbal judo before you whip out the oc'I heard its nasty stuff.'

Looks like John could use some sit-ups.

Moral to the story: if you have asthma, don't be a jerk! 🇺🇸

It might be helpful to define "OC" spray.

People who are prone to “panic attacks” are not aggressive “kick your ass” type people so put that example aside.

I’m in my mid 70s and walk w/a cane, very unsteady on my feet, so I can’t run and can’t really fight a younger/bigger person anymore. A street butt kicking could be a life ending event for me.

POM is great. I can draw and deploy it in less than one second.

Soooo... we gotta ask an attacker if they have asthma before we hose em down? Thanks for the videos John.

One thing I disagree with, is the idea that there are circumstances where you have to take a beating. That was the argument of one of the Rittenhouse prosecutors. I disagreed with it there, strongly, and I disagree with it here, too. A beating, pretty much regardless of the size of the two or more participants, *could* be fatal. Demanding that someone accept that possibility, regardless of the possible consequences, is wrong. Given that the person with OC spray has been properly provoked, either assaulted physically or threatened with assault, as far as I'm concerned there ought to be no consequences for the user given proper judicious use. If *he* has asthma and dies as a result, perhaps he should have thought of that before assaulting someone. When I was working at Walmart we had a shoplifter trying to push a whole cart of stuff he hadn't paid for out the door. He got into a struggle with one of the emplyees who held onto one side of the cart. The shoplifter maced (or whatever you call it) the crowd generally and my friend in particular; store management was there to stop my friend from punching the guy in the face in response. My friend had been a security guard in the past and been maced as part of training, and apparently there's a way to mitigate some of the effects...but of course store management saw the mace as *not* a deadly threat, and therefor any resistance at all was verboten.

So can use pom in self defense if someone threatens to bet you up & you don’t want a fight on your hands?

Good stuff

I was suspended from work without pay for pepper spraying a transient who sucker punched me at work and was also in arms reach from a hammer… I was working loss prevention and the transient became hostile when I conducted a Consensual encounter. state :California... :/ I was removed from the job site and because I was out of policy even though I was threaten with knife a week prior by a different transient …

What about using OC Spray on someone who has assaulted another person? In Michigan.

If they have asthma they should’ve thought of that before they attacked someone, and the fact we can be prosecuted for defending ourselves is a MAJOR reason why I don’t support law enforcement. And John I know you love your boys(and girls) in blue but if the time comes for you to protect yourself and your family and you’ve got to face trial you’re not going to be their biggest fan anymore with them collecting evidence to try secure a conviction against you.

How do you know what starts as a "butt kicking" is not gonna end in great bodily harm or even death? C'mon, The days of a gentleman's boxing match to settle a dispute are gone. How many videos have we seen on this very channel where people get into a physical altercation that ends with them on the ground being stomped or beat unconscious. There is a point in a self defense situation where you have to act definitively, if you miss it, well you're screwed. It is hard to be ok with " sometimes, you just have to take a butt kick'n".

Question: If you DO have a valid need to use OC spray should you file a police report so the cops have a record of the incident in case the person who received the "blessing" calls the cops on you?

Did he say that getting physically attacked and taking a beating isn't justification for using lethal force?

Well, what do you know -John just taught something to the legal adviser...😎

I carry OC spray on my person and have one within hands reach in my vehicle.

I carry my POM in the left pocket.

This is an important matter to discuss and consider. This is a popular option you have discussed; however, there are some arguments against it due to ineffectiveness for multiple reasons. What are some recommended alternative non-lethal force self-defense EDC tools, such as a Kubaton on keychain or tactical pen with a little training and practice for active self protection? Please advise.

Hey John. My name is Caleb. I got ahold of you on one of your other videos about situational awareness and mentioning becoming an instructor in the RTBAV course from the NRA. Would it be okay with you if I present this video in my courses during the self defense tool section? This would be important for my students to know.

Mace, OC spray and pepper spray are one more thing a cop can use before using a gun the more thing before a gun the merrier but it is indiscriminate when used in a crowd it should not be used on a crowed in my opinion

It's legal for me to OC spray my food? I taste kinda bland.

If they have asthma, then they should probably not be attacking someone.

Ok so what if you properly use the oc spray to prevent further physical altercations but cause the situation to escalate and now the other person grabs a weapon to use against you? Are you then allowed to draw your fire arm?

So you are talking about a case in Florida, but the video linked is from Russia - what?

I'm 68 and 5 foot 8 inches. I'm not waiting to get hurt first.

I saw a episode of cops where a girl saw her ex boyfriend at a park pepper sprayed him and the cops said did u feel like u were in danger of course the girl said yes and the cops turned to the guy and said next time u see her it’d be best to walk away or she’ll do it again……this video didn’t really clarify the legalities of pepper spray because it seems like they’re saying don’t use it unless someone actually hits u but that’s not the case I’ve seen people pepper spray other people for getting too close to them

In my state, up until this year, OC spray was considered a deadly weapon........

Why take a butt kicking if you have means to defend yourself?

Third to comment and I’m proud of myself for it lol (everyone that’s reading this have a good day and make sure to protect yourself and cover your ASP)

Hey John, i'm not sure where you talked about it but do you ALWAYS have to call the police after spraying someone? When is it okay to just walk away from the situation because the threat has stopped? If nobody saw it but your attacker and he reported you would you be in more trouble then? What if you had one friend with you and didn't call police?