Thanks for the comment and for watching! Yes, it was a lot of fun. Would recommend to all - but to just be careful about snakes and ticks. They are definitely out there.
Once again your latest video has lived up to my expectations. It is sad to see the current condition of the tunnel, but not surprising. It is definitely only a matter of time before it completely collapses. I can understand the need for the fence/gate to block off access for safety reasons. It saddens me to see it in its current condition. But understandable as no one appreciated it & the buildings at a time when the CNW pulled out to want to see that it was preserved as the historical site it is. I know you said that you haven't read CW Finch's book about the tunnel, The CGW Winston tunnel and its ghost. The Dubuque library does have a copy. There are also a couple of videos on RU-vid that have looked at the tunnel & the ghosts. They were done by some students from River Ridge HS near Hanover over several years from about 2005 on. Looking forward to your next entry
Thanks for watching, commenting, and the ongoing support! We have watched a few of the earlier videos, which have some excellent information. And have read a bit about the ghosts as well. One source indicated that at least some of the ghost stories emerged as a prank pulled on one of the operators. Would be a deep shame if the western portal crumbles to ruins as well, given how much blood and sweat was put into building it, and since it could be a good tourist draw for the area if properly maintained. The Illinois DNR ought to look at the cost of preserving a few hundred feet of the tunnel and the portal - sealing off the collapsed area - so as to preserve the historical monument - and to provide the area with an attraction for hikers. If the portal collapses in a few decades, it will be less and less of interest to future generations.
That's an excellent question. It was a lovely setting, set within a narrow valley. The building itself looked to be fairlylarge and well built for its time. Perhaps one of their ancestors might have some insights into this. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thanks for commenting and adding that information! It's a great picture and shows the level of collapse that had occurred by that time. The walls and ceiling otherwise look fairly solid in the picture. The other aspect of the image is that it shows well how little room there would have been for anyone caught in the tunnel when the train was coming through. The human scale of the people in the photo gives you a clear sense of that. Thanks again!
Heard about this tunnel years ago. Summer of 2023 I was looking for interesting places to take my mountain bike. We Have a summer home on the Iowa side of the Mississippi River so I loaded my mountain bike into my boat and ferried it across the river it to Galena. The Galena River Trail head is a few yards from the Galena River boat dock. An 8 mile bike ride through the old railroad stops to Black Jack Road and then to the Winston Tunnel DNR parking lot. I rode my mountain bike to the sitting bench, then leaving the bike behind I climbed the railroad embankment hanging onto vegetation as I climbed, another 1/2 mile to the tunnel. I did have a GPS to guide my way. Wonderful experience for a 73 year old hiking alone. I'll return to the tunnel. I actually live near Sycamore Illinois and ride the Great Western trail from Sycamore to St Charles. Great, great videos. Please make a video of the Heritage Trail, Dubuque to Dyersville, I have been on that trail as well, one of the best.
Thank you for the extensive comment and for sharing your experience with the tunnel! It is interesting how you rode your bike to the trestle area - then hiked the rest of the way in. That gives others folks a guide if they choose to bicycle there. Very interesting place to visit. Too bad that it is decaying away. We are in fact doing the Heritage Trail. We road it a few months back - and will start posting that in the coming weeks. Great Trail - and also full of history. Thanks again for the comment and the support!
Well done people. The Chicago Great Western. I hired out on the C&NW in 1978. At the depot where I worked out of initially, I found a bunch of old poster calendars from fallen flags that were now merged into the C&NW. Probably about a dozen poster calendars from 1920-1950s. Chicago Great Western, Great Northern Railroad, Minneapolis St. Louis Railroad, were just some of the railroads represented on this find. I talked the depot agent into letting me have them. He said, "well so and so will be pissed off, but they will get over it", indicating that someone else had already spoken for them. Over the years of countless moves, someone had stolen them. I was just sick about it. When I first had those calendars I had 4 or 5 of them on a wall in my apartment with years that numerically were wrong, but the dates lined up in the present year.
Wow - that sounds like a great find! Very sorry to hear that someone stole the C&NW calendars. Not sure what would possess someone to do such a thing. Wondering whether you could find something like that on Ebay today?
So many viewers are indebted to both of you and your love ❤️ offer history: your energy, accuracy & clear presentation! God Bless you and your efforts . . .
Thanks very much for the kind words and for watching! It is very thoughtful of you. Very glad that we can be a reliable source of information for our audience. There are many fascinating stories to tell, and we hope to continue to do justice to them. Thanks again!
Thanks for watching and commenting! And thanks for adding your personal experiences! Yes, would be good to hear the tunnel still in use. Shame that's it will no longer see any type of traffic ... train, bicycles, or foot.
Very good segment! It's hard not to feel a little emotional over this historic monument and your music sets a mood. No one would realistically feel it all could be restored though. Just watch its progression over time...
Thanks for the comments and for watching! Indeed, you especially feel sad for the hundreds of people that were involved in the building of the tunnel - and renovations, maintenance, and operation. Now it is being left to decay. We truly believe that if the DNR came up with a plan to preserve just a few hundred feet of the western end of the tunnel - and perhaps improved the trails getting to the ROW and tunnel - that this would help the local economy with tourism. Thanks again!
Thanks very much for watching and for the very kind words! And thank you too for all of the support! Glad that you found the video informative and interesting
My Dad and I hiked to the west portal in October 1998 and there was a fair amount of water coming out of the tunnel at the time, and it had been a dry fall. The CGW was exploring options to route around the tunnel in the 1950s (You may have mentioned that in the first installment). The route that was proposed would have brought the main south/south east near Dyersville to a point near Bellvue, Iowa, then across the Mississippi on a high bridge to eliminate grades needed to reach a river-level swing/lift bridge. The main then would swing north and east to the original alignment near Elizabeth, Ill. Given the cost versus return on investment, the project was shelved. The CGW in the modern era was always the least busy of the Chicago-Omaha/Twin Cities carriers. During the Deramus Era, trains regularly ran around 200 cars as a cost-saving measure.
Thank you for commenting and adding to the conversation. Very interesting about your trips to the west portal and the CGW's investigation into alternative routes. Based on our limited research on the alternative routes, the best time to have done this was before building the tunnel - the cost of building a bridge plus long term maintenance would have been similar to the sunk cost of the tunnel construction and ongoing renovations. That is based upon the cost of building similar structures at that time - but those numbers are very rough. It would have been hard to justify building a new bridge once the tunnel was built, as it would then have been simply cheaper to keep repairing the tunnel every decade or so. Had Stickney gone south to Bellevue, he could have picked up Hanover, Bellevue, and a few other locales, before heading north through Dubuque and to Oelwein. There were also routes considered going through Galena, then diving south towards Elizabeth. It is difficult country to route a road or railroad through - that's pretty evident. Stickney (or his engineers) likely erred here - but it is also understandable. Bad luck in the underlying rock formations. Thank you again for the informative comment!
Well done Guys ! , very impressive, great use of the drone plus the explanations of each station and Artifacts Just found you all , I assume 14 is not out yet By the way, I lived as kid in Villa Park in the late 60s and remember the CGW along with the old ROW of the CA&E
Thanks very much for watching and commenting! Glad that you found our channel and that you enjoyed the video. Yes, as of today, Chapter 13 is the latest episode of this series. As you might imagine, these videos take some time to research, record, and produce. We are taking our time so that we can do the line and the communities that it went through justice. Villa Park is a great train town - three extant train depots in the heart of town! Thanks again!
Thank you for this second video on what the Winston Tunnel looks like in early mid to late March 2023. I am presuming that you made this video in mid to late March 2023 because there are still remnants of snow along the highway and in the woods as you started your drive to the eastern portal of the tunnel. You also said that the all the water existing the western portal was the result of the seepage of water into the tunnel. It is more than likely that water seepage was caused by melting snow or rain that had fallen in the area with the warmer temperatures of March. The drone footage that you were able to capture of the eastern approach to the tunnel gives a good picture of what that approach to the tunnel currently looks like. The western approach and portal area of the tunnel are much more accessible since it is on Illinois Department of Natural Resources property. I was not aware of the Petitgout trestle that went over the valley near the western approach to the Winston Tunnel. The history of the trestle and the Petitgout family holding under the trestle were interesting. Thank you for including the information on the Petitgout family and the incident with the horses and the mule getting stranded on the trestle. How did you stumble on the information of the horses and mule getting stranded on the trestle?
Thanks for watching and the thoughtful and informative comment! Yes, the seepage is likely coming from multiple sources, the melt runoff, the groundwater, etc. As the roof has collapsed in at least a few places inside the tunnel, water must seep in, freeze, then melt much more easily than before. Yes, just as you observed, we did indeed record much of this in March, 2023. We did visit and record on two other occasions - once in the Autumn of last year - and one more time in the Spring. There is much to see here - and so diffcult to get everything you want to do/see in one day. We thought the Petitgout history was interesting as well - and if you look closely at the plat map, you'll notice that the Mougins were their neighbors - the family of whom Hazel Mougin was a daughter - who later became the operator at Rice and North Hanover. There was more there too - but it was a tangent that didn't quite fit the Winston Tunnel story. Regarding the horses and mules - the local newspapers are filled with interesting insights. That story came from the Savanna Daily Journal. A significant portion of our research makes use of newspapers, which are an excellent source, as they are contemporary with the events. Thank you again!
I've been looking forward to this! I've been inside the west entrance years ago with a mining engineer. We went back to the collapse, and the engineer pointed out evidence of the blast that collapsed the tunnel. The wall was blown out along the base, which couldn't have been caused by a cave in.
Thanks very much for watching and commenting! That's excellent information regarding potential explosives. Was that on the east end or west end of the tunnel? And did you manage to get any pictures? :-)
Brain and Joyce, you guys hit it out of the park with these last two videos on the Winston Tunnel! Simply outstanding! We explored the west portal area of the tunnel in late 1998. At that point the fan and powerhouse were still extant and fairly intact with the exception of the missing roofs over both structures. The tunnel was also accessible at that time, as evidently, some local rebellious youth had managed to tear down the chain link fence that blocked access to the tunnel. We did not venture too far into the tunnel as we had not brought the necessary accoutrements to provide a sufficient amount of light, but I think this was before the bore collapse (or explosion) had occurred. I also noticed that the remains of the Pettigout house appear to have suffered significant additional decay in the last 25 years as well. Thank you for producing this well-researched, most excellent series on the CGW!
Thanks very much for the kind words and support - that is very much appreciated! Glad that you enjoyed it. That's very interesting regarding your earlier trips to the tunnel. You are right though about the lights - we brought along a very bright flashlight, but it barely made a dent in the darkness. Even if we could have flown our drone in the tunnel, lighting would still be an issue - as the images would be very dark 100 feet into the tunnel. In fact, we were quite concerned about our ability to navigate without running into a wall by mistake, given the poor lighting. And there were definite wind currents coming out of the tunnel as well, which were affecting the drone, even flying still in front of the tunnel opening. it's nothing that the drone could not handle - but the wind currents, along with the poor lighting in the tunnel would have increased the odds of accidentally flying into a wall or ceiling, which would not be good. Your observation regarding the Petitgout house is interesting too. It appeared to be a pretty solid, well built house at one time, being made of stone. We are a little surprised that the DNR has not taken that house down too - but at the same time, we are thankful that they have not done so. The creek just to the west of the structure may undermine the west wall at some time - bringing the whole facade down. So glad that you are enjoying the series! Thanks again for the thoughtful and informative comments!
Thank you for another interesting and informative video. I really appreciate your use of drone and "AI" imaging technologies, both are very well-suited for videos of this nature. Bravo!
My father grew up in the area and my grandparents still live in the area. I have hunted the west portal dnr area a couple times with family. My father talks about the tunnel sometimes and he says he hunted the area in the late 80s. He told me that fences for the tunnel didnt hold up that well and people rode 4wheelers through the tunnel quite often
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Winston Tunnel and the local environs. Yes, from the pictures that we've seen, the fences were but a speed-bump to people walking and riding into the tunnel. The current gates are a bit more effective - but now that the east portal is effectively blocked, and the west portal is often a foot deep in water, that makes for a very good deterrent. Thanks again for commenting!
Well, I guess you saved me a trip. I was thinking about asking one of the property owners for permission to see the East portal of the tunnel. It’s a shame either way through neglect or sabotage that this historical site can no longer be documented. By the time the CNW ripped out the rails is there a reason why a rail trail wasn’t considered? The Elroy-Sparta Trail was built around the same time period.
Thanks for commenting and watching! It is still worth the trip. We didn't have luck finding the owner, but others might. It's not always clear which long extended driveway leads to a home that is currently inhabited. Nor is it clear who might own the property simply by looking at a map. But you might get lucky and find someone who can direct you to the right house or person. We spent a few hours trying to locate the owner - and decided that we needed to start filming/recording while the sun and weather was in our favor.
@@BeHistoric thanks for the reply. It’s obvious that you have poured a lot time and research to make your videos. I’m actually thinking of creating my own on mini-series. Is there a reason why the state of Illinois only purchased land for the western portal? They probably would have had a far more lucrative site with both portals linked with hiking trails. Longest tunnel in Illinois would have been a noteworthy attraction in an otherwise flat state.
I considered contacting the owner of the East portal, made it to his driveway then changed my mind. I heard the owner was unfriendly. It's a shame because people would still like to see it@@ChicagoMadisonWesternRR
At 11:48 there is a picture of the afternoon mail and express train with NO mail and express! But it was a link to the rest of the trains . Removal of this train hit the others ridership. I know people today that would pay thousands to ride this train today including me! A CGW unit is in Oelwein and two of the ex C&O- CGW passenger cars are at IRM in Union, Illinois. C&O upgraded them before sale to CGW with reclining seats, and air conditioning. They had a heating plant in the middle of the car so they could be used with freight locomotives and freight cars could be put on their passenger trains. They were hot cars, that needed to be delivered right a way. And a passenger train could do it.
Thanks for watching and commenting - and glad that you enjoyed the video and the series! The drone we use is a DJI Mini 2. Very reliable, very portable, and very good quality. Cannot say enough good things about it.
Except if this was a highway tunnel it would be in use today. Nothing stops the highway people. Like the Pennsylvania Turnpike built on a abandoned SOUTH PENN RAILROAD. The first SUPER highway a toll way. Yes I have driven it once and have the booklet they sold about it. I have been across Pennsylvania many many times and keep going there. But by train! Lots of tunnels on the Pike , and they even built a new right of way around any narrow tunnels with issues. Now a bike path too! Railroads should be government owned with open access. To qualified operators like roads, waterways and airports. Only railroads own their tracks and pay taxes on them used to induce use of other forms of transportation! So half the track beds are gone!
Thank you for watching and commenting! It's a bit hard to say for the Winston Tunnel becoming a highway. From an engineering perspective, it was built in the wrong type of rock - Maquoketa Shale - fragile and unstable. The CGW sunk a great deal of time and money into stabilizing that tunnel, often having to redo it every 20 years or so, at signficant expense. Also, we doubt that it would have been wide enough for 2-way automobile/track traffic - and certainly not at any speed. In hindsight, Stickney would have been far better off at routing the railroad a bit further south and building a bridge across the Mississippi, or at routing a bit further north and paying the Illinois Central to share trackway. But then we wouldn't have the Winston Tunnel today, if he had chosen one of those options!
Thanks for watching and for commenting! Indeed, this would have been a very scenic train ride through Dubuque County and Jo Daviess County in particular. And you are right, the tunnel would not have been suitable for today's trains.
