Diver's Insatiable Desire for Adventure Leads to Cave Diving Disaster | Dave Shaw Case Analysis 

Except perhaps, on a carbon composite hull submarine diving to the titanic…..lol.

Don't tell that to the cave divers, I used to watch Dive Talk and those guys will tell you over and over how safe it is if you do everything right. Even after all that though you won't catch me dead cave diving. Update: I just went to check their channel because I haven't in a while and Woody had to get medevac'd the other day after a dive. I knew they were full of it.

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I'm right there with you.

That is also the second, third and fourth rule of cave diving.

💯😂

Lol exactly!!!

FACT!

There are actually five basic rules of cave diving that are widely subscribed to by cave divers. They are meant to improve safety of divers in these dangerous environments and have been deduced through many tragic deaths: 1) Always use a continuous guideline to the surface. 2) Save two-thirds of the total air supply for returning to the surface. 3) Carry at least three lights during the dive. 4) Limit dive depth to that appropriate for the gas being breathed 5) Be well trained in cave diving and mentally prepared for the dive. While cave diving carries many inherent risks and is something I would never try (even regular open water diving scares me), I have been fascinated to learn more about the discipline from the "DIVE TALK" channel. What at first seemed to me to be a suicide mission with huge risks is actually an advanced skill that CAN be performed safely with proper equipment and training. Cave divers must be extremely skilled in their movements in the water, and their understanding of SCUBA technology and protocol. Of all the rules number five is the most important. While there have been cases such as Dave Shaw's death where an eminently experienced diver has died in a cave, by far the most common cause of underwater cave fatalities is when divers without proper training venture into these environments. Even divers considered "advanced" in open water skills can become quickly disoriented in a cave environment due to darkness, silting out (when much gets stirred up and obscured visibility), or panic when they lose track of the route back. Cave Divers systematically reduce these risks through training. Divers that are not cave certified and using proper equipment should NEVER enter a cave environment.

I don't think any cave divers would try to convince you of that. Even just regular scuba diving in open water is very dangerous, I wouldn't discourage anyone from it because I personally love it and it's amazing, but every diver I know is aware of the risks. Proper training also emphasizes the risk - I'll never forget being told in my first dive lesson that if I accidentally held my breath while ascending it could cause my lungs to explode.

I’m much more likely to die driving to the cave than actually diving in it.

​@@drummercve2398 That's not even close to true.

@@flingonber if you get a driving licence and stick to the rules of the road, then driving is generally safe. Same goes for any type of diving (not just cave diving).

​@@flingonberdamn. I'm a chronic breath holder. Love the idea of diving but I would die in a second

Good thought

@katesshby3066 I too do not understand a ‘recovery’🎉with a clear deceased + in precarious position where it’s dangerous for others to retrieve. Sentiments, plaques , & memoriams can still be done to reflect their lives

right. the person is gone & doesn’t need rescuing. it’s crazy to think that people risk their lives because we have strongly held social constructs/norms tied to death

I can see the point when people don't know what happened to a loved one and they just disappeared. But certainly not worth risking other lives

Well, there's simple sanitation to consider in general, but I do agree, that there's no real reason to recover a body in a situation where the recovery is also high risk (e.g. in the death zone above 8,000 meters or in an under water cave).

Living one''s "life on the edge" is not compatible with having a wife and family. It can't be had both ways.

"Prioritized". 🤓

Yes, how can such people risk their lives when other human beings are depending on them? I am surprised that his wife let him go?

It''s not only financial support, it is also emotional connection and family structure.@@commonsense2680

@@commonsense2680 imagine thinking you have the power to "let" another adult human being do... well, anything.

Nah these cave dive videos have been popular lately I figured he would shamelessly start covering them.

"I FiGuReD He WoUlD ShamElEsSlY sTarT CoVeriNg TheM."@@Ken-fh4jc

​@@Ken-fh4jcCaving and cave diving videos have been popular for years now.

@@Ken-fh4jc oh lord. Have a good new years.

​@@Ken-fh4jcwho hurt you?

I'm terrified of heights, absolutely TERRIFIED, but if I was forced to choose I'd rather go sky diving than cave diving. I feel like it would be over much more quickly. The panic and struggle underwater in a confined space... #nothanks 😱😱😱😱

I went sky diving and completely lost control of my body coming out of the plane. That was a one and done experience. I'm not diving in a swimming pool. I prefer my burial to happen after I die.

Bungee jumping is relatively safe though

Until it isn't 😂​@@MNK90-m1z

@@defundhollywood3259 I used to be okay with heights; climbed trees all the time and even fell out of a few but after being on the ground at the WTC on 9/11 and watching those people fall (a memory that does NOT wane with age) and imagining what must have gone through their minds on the way down just turned me 180 degrees on heights. Then I started having dreams my kids and I were hanging from collapsing bridges and such and I could only save one; great dreams like that. I don't know if I'll ever get on a plane again. I am a true ground dweller.

Yup. That’s why he had a documentary crew there. He was chasing clout.

I'm pretty sure this was not the kind of closure they were looking for.

This is why I love Dr Grande’s video. For years I’ve read and watched a lot about the Nutty Putty cave incident - Dr Grande’s video was so well researched it included important details the mass of other videos have at all!

Yeah, that's profoundly irresponsible, and it puts the lie to the assertion that "he only risked his own life". He risked the life of everyone on the planes he was flying, violating some basic physiological realities that every diver is warned about in their basic open-water training. Inexcusable.

Great point. 😮

Good thing that Don was able to "detach" himself from the danger of being Dave's dive support. And that was the only life that Dave was risking, beside his own. Let be thankful for that (that he unalived himself in an underwater cave as opposed to while flying a plane..)

He didn't only endanger himself though, he also risked passengers on his plane and other divers.

More like a birth wish.

Cave diving is always hella dangerous. Even 20m deep you are in a lot of danger.

He hurt his family 😪

"his escapades didn’t get anyone else killed. " The last one almost killed Don...

Yes exactly "the cruel sea". It's named that way.😢

"There are quite a few people like Dave who will keep pushing until they end up dead." That's fine as long as they don't endanger other people. More importantly, is that they don't have a wife and children

@@MrStringybarksadly many people care more about their own entertainment than their children’s emotional welfare

he basically stole/rebranded information from the documentary called "Dave not coming back"

@@rrbearcatHow is retelling the same facts an act of theft? Is he supposed to create another story for the sake of originality? That would be absurd.

​@@rrbearcat I would probably never watch the documentary. Dr Grande did me the favor of watching it and summarizing it with only the important information.

Very pointless.

I don't think it's pointless at all. People want the remains of their loved ones recovered & properly laid to rest (according to their own personal beliefs and feelings).. it may not matter to you, but it matters greatly to some others. 💜

@fragrancememoir2350 You forget soldiers were buried in the sea for hundreds of years. Why risk more death to retrieve a shell of a body.

@adaboy4z I hear you.. but if someone is willing.. then I am sure that the family would appreciate it. ... unfortunately he lost his life in his attempt, but that was a risk that he was very aware of & totally willing to take. I also think he wanted to be successful at breaking the record of the deepest body retrieval... so he was definitely motivated on a personal level.

@@fragrancememoir2350true , but to let others risk their lives to give you some peace of mind is selfish

There's a terrific memoir, "Descent into Darkness", by a naval officer who was a salvage diver working on the battleships that were sunk at Pearl Harbor. One of the delightful aspects of that work was slogging through a stew of oil, industrial solvents, jagged metal, explosives, and human remains. But the only time he came close to full-on panic was during a dive when he discovered that a spider had stowed away in his brass hat diving rig!

It wasn’t about playing “famous hero” as you put it. He wasn’t even looking for Deon’s body when he found it. He was breaking records, and he broke 4 (or 5) in that single dive. He saw the body and knew exactly who it was. Because he had found him, he felt it was his duty to bring him home. He wasn’t trying to be a “famous hero”. And when someone says “no disrespect”, they do in fact mean disrespect 🙄

Doesn't have to be. There's a group down in Florida that's been doing astonishing work exploring and charting miles-long caves (wish I could recall the name they go by). They're extremely rigorous about gear, protocols, everything, and they've never had a casualty.

Comparing Dave to Stockton Rush is unjust, Dave always said, "If I make a mistake don't try to recover my body" Stockton Rush was a Capitalist Rat, with no respect for human life, he knew that submersible was not safe, besides that, he even charged money from people, the only lack of respect Dave had was for it's own life.

Hubris will get you every time.

These cave stories have really reminded me of Stockton Rush.

Dave shaw planned and executed a plan to recover the body of a missing diver. He also told everyone that they were not to go down after him if anything goes wrong... There is a big difference. Dave was a good man with a big heart.

@@stevendavies1496 I think that they can't reach the humanity of the man, in trying to recover a body, from a 20 year old boy to his parents. He was a great man.

Diving's terrific! It's as close as non-astronauts can get to space travel. Go a mere ten feet down and you're in a different world. We're really privileged to live in a time when such things are possible.

All sympathy for the ones who Loved him...

God. She got her dad killed tho so she’s even worse.

It’s because you have a normal “craving” or threshold for adrenaline. Daredevil types are addicted to adrenaline just like substance abusers are addicted to the chemicals in drugs or alcohol.

You couldn't be more wrong about Dave, he was a very humble man.

​@@pixie89you knew him? Tell us about him.

@@pixie89 "he was a very humble man." His recklessness says otherwise...

Did anyone ask you for your approval? Or ask you to cave dive? What is your issue, exactly? Are you upset that other people do things that they want to do and that you don't want to do? No one has to do a rescue or recovery dive either, if they choose not to.

Cave divers have saved lives too. As in the case of the Thai children. Have to respect the courage. I won't even use an elevator I'm so claustrophobic...

Scaredy Cat!

@@stt5v2002 Lmao I wondered the same. It's a weird flex.

Congratulations and TY for your Services!

Yup that's what happened to me. Woody from Dive Talk just had a pretty freaky incident recently.

I heard quite a lot of them on Mr Ballens Channel. When I could still stand to watch his content, before getting burned out.

He couldnt think anymore, the body he was trying to save, was now floating up. He couldnt just let it float up and be recovered. So he died.

Not to sound callous but it's not brave to get yourself killed just for fame. A fireman dying to save someone is brave or something along those lines. What Dave did was egotistical and could have gotten others killed.

"heroic?" - watched too many Indiana Jones movies?

"his promise to the Dreyer family" - too bad, it was a "promise" the family had not asked for...

Congrats on your very smart move!

More than they love their own families

He emphatically DID NOT "understand the risk". If he did, he wouldn't have FLOWN AN AIRLINER hours after a technical dive to great depths. That's extreme recklessness verging on mass manslaughter.

Indeed

Take a break from the internet.. sounds like an unhealthy parasocial dynamic

This comment is gold ❤️💯🙏

@@cutiepiebbright. love dr. grande but i can’t imagine referring to someone who is (despite how it may feel when you constantly consume someone’s content) a total stranger as my father figure

Like Fred Rogers, he's calm and steady and we can trust what he says because he teaches us good sense and helps us understand confusing and upsetting situations which makes us feel safer from them. And he comes across as caring for his audience. You're right, it is fatherly. I have a wonderful dad who was just like this. I can imagine how much it could mean to someone who didn't have a good father to experience a man taking the time with them this way.

Funny thing was the dead diver family didn't ask for the body to start with...

He's my favorite to fall asleep listening to. (The next day I relisten to the episode.) I think I like him best because rather than just narrate he comes across as caring for his audience and wanting to share his knowledge with us. It's less mechanical and more personal than most.

But I bet he could spell

Kinda hard to imagine Neil Armstrong going reckless cowboy like this guy did.

"to help mankind," Sure, to prove that darwinism is alive and well...

yep, it's best to watch the real documentary not this guys version/rebranding of it.

​@rrbearcat Documentaries themselves are versions/rebrandings of actual events.

@@jannea4318 depends on if it's an original documentary or not. If it's a documentary that uses original material from another documentary, then sources need to be cited, in accordance with whatever standard being used MLA, APA, etc. etc.

Know when to Wing yourself off when it’s not your business and when the only problem is your ego 🎉

I DONT NEED PERMISSION FROM AN OBSESSED MOLESTED STALKER WITH AN OBSESSED MOLESTED STALKER EGO THAT THINKS A STRANGER BELONGS TO HIM 💁🏻‍♀️💁🏻‍♀️💁🏻‍♀️💁🏻‍♀️💁🏻‍♀️💁🏻‍♀️💁🏻‍♀️💁🏻‍♀️💁🏻‍♀️

😂

As a truck driver I've seen them, too. They're very dangerous simply because they drop so low to the ground, over and over and over. But it is neat to watch their skill. That must have been a sight!