You are actually making it less effective by keeping the end valve almost closed. You want to grab all the heat you can. Just because the water is "hotter" if you restrict the flow, you are not effectively getting all the heat you can to the pool. More volume of water will result in more heat getting into pool overall and save the life of your pump.
Larry Maples Simple physics! The greater the temperature differential, the faster the heat transfers. It's much more efficient to let the water flow quickly, and rise by a single degree, than to heat a tiny volume by twenty degrees- the amount of heat transferred to the pool will be significantly higher.
@@spencerwilton5831 also simple physics, you need enough dwell time to gain the heat. Like a car cannot run well without the thrermostat because you don't pull the heat out. Now, with 10 panels. She has enough dwell time. So for her system, yes. I doubt the last 2-4 panels are helping here. There is a terminal temp you can reach. you don't keep gaining heat at some point.
Its impossible to get hot enough water thru a 3/4 tube to get enough flow to actually work! Maybe 1 deg per day mid summer! Buy a solar cover! Or a heater that costs about 300$. This is absolutely worthless! The solar cover alone used properly will do better for 100$ and I have to argue that this is more efficient! I dont want that nasty in my lawn, but I dont live in south Carolina, in Michigan we actually need heat!
@@jiismo There is no dwell time. The comparison with car is not very good because the engine need to be at a good temperature to work properly. The faster you can go through the system, the better. Also, it's better to use 2 X 50 ft in parallel than 100ft in series. The drag will be less and the flow will be better which will increase the efficiency.
I built a solar heat panel after watching some You Tube videos. 120.00 for the plexi-glass, 89.00 for the adjustable pond pump. 30.00 dollars for the 4x8 sheet of plywood, 20.00 for the four pieces of pressure treated 2x4, two garden hoses for the in and out at 70.00..(I buy American made when I can, not the Chinese junk) 300 feet of 3/4 pex tubing was 135.00, fittings to link hoses to pex tubing, etc 20.00, screws to hold plexi-glass to frame and put frame together I would say I used about 10.00 worth, Paint spray cans black 20.00 worth, all total= 514.00 Results? I live in Central Pa, currently on 4/28/2020 it is about 55 degrees outside and sunny. with some clouds passing through. The panel is heating up to 100.00 inside and the continual output is 64 degree's. The pool temperature is 54'F It's cold outside so I imagine it will only get better. I think the mistake I made was using 3/4 inch pex tubing instead of 1/2. I will be making another one using 1/2 inch pex tubing which is only 75.00 for 300 feet. The 3/4 will feed into the 1/2 inch then. I am a little disappointed with the results, I expected better after spending 500.00 and I forgot to mention caulking I bought to seal everything up. I did this because I wanted to extend pool swimming season. I worked hard and spent 10,000.00 putting in a built in pool for the family. did not seem right to spend that money and only be able to use the pool for three months out of year. I hope this does the trick but am not convinced. You can buy the rubber panels on Amazon for 250 a section. I may have been better off doing that. Also, to anyone thinking of putting in their own built in pool, if you have some common sense, you can do it. The pool companies in my area wanted 35000.00 to put in the same pool..(pool included) I did mine for about 10,000 including the concrete patio surrounding pool. FYI.
300 feet is not long enough, the longer it is, the more time water can be heated. Don't think you want to shrink the size of the hose, the bigger the hose, the more water it can circulate, and in order to heat the pool, hot water needs to circulate fast enough to outpace the cooling of the pool.
In my area the major pool installers star at $50,000 minimum for a crappy rectangle pool and go up from there. They use "gunnite" which is concrete and won't do vinyl. I found a local guy that does this for a living and he is very good and does this all the time. My neighbor is getting a simple rectangle bought and installed for $24,000. I want a kidney shaped with rock feature water fall and slide. poolwarehouse.com has all but the water feature. Pool guys said easy way to determine basic cost for a pool by him is look up the pool you want...time 3 = approximate cost. A $8,000 pool kit would end up $24,000 for entire pool. I want to spend about $35,000 to get everything I want. I also saw that Lowes and Home Depot have faux rocks "Artificial rock | Well Pump Covers" www.lowes.com/pl/Artificial-rock--Well-pump-covers-Garden-decor-Outdoors/4294612842?refinement=4294403028 I will probably after pool install and slide and water feature buy these at Lowes and put them around water feature to heighten the look and around the slide. Might spend up to $3,000 for them to get enough. Will really enhance the look.
That's probably the best set up I've seen so far; even though you haven't finished it yet. I would highly recommend covering and sealing each section of the solar heater with UV protected plexiglass; at least 1/4" thick; and some type of insulation on the underside of the base to help prevent heat transfer on windy days. Just a tip to help increase the heat retention: add another 2X2 on top of the current sections and add a piece of 4X4 in the center; painted; to the middle as additional support for the plexi. Make a complete frame for each w/no gaps and seal to the top of each one with an outside wood glue and nails or screws. Reprime the new sections. Repaint the entire surface with either WOODLIFE COPPERCOAT or RUST-OLEUM WOLMAN (both come in gallon cans and can be used with a WAGNER POWER SPRAYER to make the job faster and easier) to protect against burrowing insects such as termites and protect against premature wood rot. I did a similar install for a friend back in the 90's for her above ground 22' round pool. Mounted it on her garage roof which was right by the pool on the south facing side. Intake cane off the top of the filter return (eliminated the need for an additional pump) and return went thru the hose under her deck.
I like you simple approach. Some glass or plexi covers, would really heat things up. So maybe if more heat is needed a few removable panels may be an idea
In case no one has told you yet, you don't want to slow the water down. The faster and cooler it moves through your system, the more heat gets taken out of the black pipe. Yes, the water will be a cooler temp coming out, but you are effectively putting more heat into the pool. Beautiful pool, by the way!
How does this work? if you pump water through the solar heater faster, it wont heat up as much? so youd be pumping cooler water in faster than hotter water in slower? also I plan on useing two or three 50 foot coils on 3/8" copper coils incased in an all black painted frame with a clear top of poly roofing. Im just not sure 3/8" od tube would supply enough water to heat a 3000 gal intek pool and im not sure what size pump to use.
@@hdrjunkie basic physics. In short it's better to have 3000 l/ph of 28c water vs 1000 l/ph of 35c water, the much higher volume of water will have a greater overall effect on the pool. Low flow rate isn't putting enough water into the pool to make a big difference
@@BorderlessTrio Ok... so the Hotter water that just basically drips into the cold pool will cool off before the actual pool water heats up but the less hot water that flows in with a bit of pressure will warm up the pool water because its getting in faster and not being instantly cooled. Much like when I ask for ice in my coffee and the the person puts the ice in the cup THEN pours the hot coffee in and all it does is melt the ice instantly not cooling the coffee at all... lol
now... lol what about flow rates? do i need a highr gallons per hour pump or lower? i know the longer the water is in the heater, the hotter it will get but how do i figure out the pump size? do i use, feet of pipe/tube x gallons of water or something? I was gonna use coils under glass but now im not sure, im hearing headers with straight tubes may be better.
@@wb3161 OK, for a pool you just want warm water. The more water that flows through the collector the more solar energy is collected. Cool water will absorb more heat than hot water. Also the less hot the pipe is the less heat will be lost to the environment. I would make four sections connected to a four into one manifold.
James Methvin Finally someone who understands! The amount of these videos where they restrict the flow to a dribble because it makes a few pints of very hot water is insane! Faster flow=cooler coils but much higher overall heat pickup.
I have found, that to successfully heat an entire pool and to have the power to bounce back after a cooler period, you need the same square footage of solar collector as the surface are of the pool, so a 36 x 18 pool is 646 sq feet , you would need 648 sq feet of collector. This is what I have on my pool, and I can heat the entire 29000 gallon pool to 97 degrees if i want to ( I have for a test, but usually run 86 from may through October).. Very efficient. I use Australian collector. I am in Maryland. I have four other customers with the same system and results in the area.
Sounds like the ideal set-up is less than your calculation unless someone wants the option to heat their pool up to that temperature or to be able to heat it up very quickly.
2 things to get more heat with your current setup: 1. Acrylic panels; plexi-glass over the panels will REALLY HEAT it up though! 2. Cut down the noise of that pump and enclose the back side of the panels. This too will add heat to those panels.
OR get rid of that heavy metal/toxin, leaching, inefficient garden dripline and go with copper coil. Copper has 800x the heat conductivity compared to Pex or PVC. She would need about 100 ft of copper tubing to potentially get 80xs the heating performance. 1/2 in copper coil is fairly inexpensive. At $100 ea. why not?
Zymondo no, multiple shorter coils will work better. Heat transfers faster to cool coils. If the water is hotter, it will pick up less heat. It would also put less strain on the pump.
I want to make one of these and put it on one of those cheap easy set up pool kits that are available at any Walmart, Target or Biglots etc and try running it through the winter. Has anyone attempted to keep their pool open all winter and heat it this way? Lol
This is awesome. Would like to ask you both a question. I have valves I had installed on my pool pump set up that goes to and from the pool for a wood heater I built. That turned out to be too small. I ran copper to pex to pvc. Would this system you have, the ends be modified to my set up instead of pump? I am assuming your ends have the fitting on for 3/4 to fit pump. I have tried for years to find something that will work. I hope you get this question. Thank you.
this is the general idea of what I will build. back in the late 70s I actually majored in energy conversion, heat transfer an thermodynamics and what not and built a few simple heater. I live in Florida and I am sure a fairly simple system will add 3 or 4 months of warm water to my pool season. Thanks for the post
Would geothermal heating be more feasible with you living in Florida? Then you heat the pool water when it’s cold. Along with the ability to cool the water in the hottest months if water gets to hot!
Have a professional out to check your electrical, since you do not have it bonded to pool and it is separate from the pool. If there is a falt- failure, someone can get killed. Just based on the little you showed. Unless you like to gamble, then good job. If you plumbed in a tee with a 3/4 spicket on the output pipe of your pool pump you can get rid of that sprinkler pump you plugged in and not have any electrical whoopsies later on, while saving money. Have a qualified professional check that not just some random pool guy, but someone who knows swimming pool bonding..
A professional ran the box outside. We just ran a drop cord to the box. However, everything comes out of the water before anyone goes in. thanks for the comment.
Did this 30 years ago in Portugal for a client, everyone thought l was mad until they felt the water temperature running into the pool. Black tube needs no help to heat up.
Any pool heater will require a pump to circulate the water! Not to mention the amount of "wattage" the solar is array capturing to heat the water is far far far greater than what the pump is using.
Try the plexiglass on it. It will greatly increase the heat because it traps the heat in. Think about it. Is it hotter inside or outside of a greenhouse? Also wood and plastic are insulators so the do not coduct heat very well. If you replaced the plastic pipe with coiled copper pipe and just join them with a "Shark bite" connector. Keep the wood boxes but get some thin sheet aluminum under the pipes and paint it flat balck.
davetileguy Only UV blocking glass does which is specifically designed for that. Regular plexiglass or acrylic allows anywhere from 92%-96% light transmission. Its nor affected by uv light ao it will not degrade but it allows it to pass through. Old stuff would yellow and crack.
I made a pool heater with old pallets, black water hose and plexiglass. The plexiglass will make a difference, its been proven time and again. No brainer.
Good job both of you. I did a small solution for a 10ft above ground pool. I'm going to add plexi glass cover to the top, that will retain the heat better throughout the day. Also worth boxing in the pump with some sound proofing or insulation to get the noise down.
This is the information I was looking for 6:43. I'm gaining 4°f per day as well with a 20 year old 12'x4' X6 Fafco Solar array. The panels need to be replaced soon and it's almost $700 per panel. My guess is you're at or under that with this DIY set up.
plywood is 42 dollars per 4x8 (x5), 500 foot of coil hose is 40 dollars (250 feet per loop so also x5). 220 in plywood and 220 in hose plus some misc lumber for her whole setup. 600 tops for 5 panels
just buy the panels on amazon and purchase a solar touch with one actuator valve for the solar and a check valve. automated solar system and you won't ever have to worry about it, you already have a easy touch.
A couple of things... 1. A frame with glass over the top isn't to keep it clean. It keeps air from circulatng around the tubing and cooling it off, and traps the ultraviolet rays (heat) from the sun = hotter water. 2. Insulating the backside will help hold in the heat as well = hotter water. 3. Install a one way flow valve on the cold water end of the tubing. As the water in the tubing heats up, it will expand and push itself out the hot end of the tubing, creating a suction, that will draw the cold water into the tubing. This will create a siphoning action, eliminating the need for a pump.
Nice video filled with good tips & trix. I'm setting up a solar powered pool heater right now and my goal is 30°C / 86°F in the pool. I'm starting with 250 meters / 820 feet of 20 mm / ¾ inch PEM hose in a flat rooftop setup. A 20V rainwater barrel pump (2,000 liters - 528 gallons / hour) will be connected directly to a solar panel, so it's a completely automatic system controlled and powered by the sun. No sun = no pump = no heating. Since I'm located at 60° latitude in the northern hemisphere, I'll guess it'll be some problems and math to solve along the way, but it'll be fun. Keep up your good work
The Pool - That's a lot of thermal loss. The solar pipes - why did you create 10 circles instead of one big nascar track ? also, why you not show water temp input and then water temp at output ? You would get more thermal heat absorption if you cycled the pump on/off in 5 min intervals, also, that pump is not designed to stay running. You should install a baffled water tank to help with the life of the pump.
22,000 gallons? Who did the math? It must only be 2 ft deep then. Love all the comments on how to make it better. Just a waste of time. You can’t overcome the heat loss at night with that much surface area. Is it bright sun everyday where you live for 10 hrs? Pool heaters run off a thermostat. They run at night. Solar cover for that size and shape....forget it and most of them don’t last for more than 2-3 years. At least the pipe company owner can fill up his yacht from all the sales.
can i ask if this system over the years stil is heating the pool iam wondering how this system is holding up over the years. thnx alr for answering. love
Wow! We did this eight years ago! But we did ours on wooden pallets. We took individual large wooden pallets, and we put black rolled asphalt roofing on it and stapled it to the corners, and then put our coils black tubing on it, and they would, and we would put all of the panels up on an angle just like your large one. And we would turn them onto one side because they were square face in the sun coming up in the east, then turn it to the side to face and prop it up to face the south and then later on turn it to the side, to prop it up to face the west. And then, on top of our garage, we had a whole long row. We had a doughboy above ground pool. And it was patted on the bottoms on the sides of the inside before we put the liner in. Then, we had two black bubble, solar pool covers that we would keep on the top of the pool. That was so that the sun didn’t deplete all of the chemicals and hold in the heat, especially at night. He got that pool temperature up to almost 100°, bathwater! In fact, there were times when it was too hot to really swim in and enjoy. We live in Michigan. We had a pool up for we enjoyed it for about four years. I no longer have The pool, my husband passed away, and it’s not something I wanna tackle again on my own at age 62! This is a great great idea and there’s also other types of black solar panels. You can purchase to put up on other areas. You can lay them up against your siding of your home or anything. But I would advise you to take that wood that your black coil sitting on, and either put black plastic under it or some thing black that exorbitant heat because it makes a huge difference.😊
might be funny when the pool is being constructed to just loop it around the pool along the ground and instead of concrete tiles just pour clear epoxy. then it scales with the size of the pool and you make good use of space?
You want a heated pool during cold months, therefore a solar panel would need to produce sufficient heat while outside temps were low. Greenhouse surrounding the pipes and lots of insulation along with heat reflectors to get the most UV heat possible would be required to have all year pool temps. Has anyone thought to use geothermal heating? With enough geothermal piping one should be able to have an all year long pool!
Hello. Great idea. One hopefully easy to fix problem. Your pump sounds like it is struggling to get the flow it needs. You can hear what sounds like slapping water at high frequency which is the sound of cavitation in the pump housing. This destroys pumps over time. Depending on the pump, it could be days or months. Is that pump designed for a positive inlet pressure or a negative one? If negative? What is the flow rate? Is the open exit tube not providing enough resistance? Test by measuring rated flow against actual flow. If higher than rated, add a nozzle. If lower than rated, it's probably an inlet issue. Great energy saving design and good luck making it a long term solution.
Buy a couple of kiddie pools, have your pump connected to each in a series and put a solar pool heater cover on each. Once they've heated up, pump the water into your main pool once every hour or so. This is a more efficient and cheaper method than heat transfer through pvc plastic as all of the heat gets directly added to your large pool. Some of the kiddie pools might get up over 110 F+. This will be a cheaper and less complicated system with fewer hands-on manhours setting it up. You'll also save money on running the pump while extending the life of your pump. You could also submerge several layers of bubble wrap about 6 inches above and below each other in the kiddie heat collector pools to multiply the heat collection in each kiddie pool which will allow you to exchange heated water with the main pool more often. Your 1 degree a month rise in temperature may turn into a 1 degree rise per day.
She didn’t say one degree a month. That would be ridiculous. She said she was getting 4 degrees a day. She also said natural heating for this month is 1 degree.
Nice. I'm gonna build one too. I did one with hoses before and plumbed the pool outlet with a small valve into the heating system, then that went to an unused outlet into the pool where I used to have a pressure vacuum cleaner that I no longer use. Eliminates the additional pump and if the pump isn't properly grounded with a bonding wire, might get someone shocked. Also I think covering it with something like plastic awning polycarbonate would prevent heat loss from convection winds blowing over the system. Otherwise, nice.
Nice but I couldn't help but wonder why you guys didn't cover it with plexiglass and enclose it as airtight as possible. It will get much hotter on those tubes. Someone mentioned copper tubing and that may transfer heat better but be much more costly. How much does it raise the temp now?
That's a solar pool heater if I ever seen one! If I were you I would enclose the whole thing with plexiglass so it creates a greenhouse effect and set a automatic timer on it so it only runs certain times of the day. I seen many peoples videos of them taking water from the top of the pool and releasing it back on top to only heat the surface. where you are taking from the bottom of the pool and releasing it on the bottom again where the cooler water is natural. Is there any why you can show us a comparison of not using it and using it with water temperature?
How is that pump working for you? I have a similar build but I keep having pump issues. These transfer pumps like yours are not meant to run for 5 hours a day 7 days a week (continuous use). So I have been racking my brain trying to find a pump that can handle this load and also pump the water up 12 feet to my tubing on the roof. I tried pluming the line into my pool pump but that didn't work either because it just goes path of least resistance right by the t. I don't want to have to force all the water through the heating system since its separate. So I'm just wondering if that pump is holding up to your load.
Sorry, I'm just now seeing this. The pump is working great. It goes through a 1000' foot of tubing. I'm sure I could have ran even more. It takes it a few minutes to prime and begin movement. We ran it mostly April and May. I do not run it on cloudy days or of course during the night. There may be one that has more HP. The good thing about Lowes is if it doesn't work, you can exchange it.
Yvette Ruzicka thank you. I have the same set up on my roof. 1000'. I bought the same type of pump from harbor freight and its working fine. I run it from 11 to 5 every day. We will see how long it last.
@@BorderlessTrio I have been through a couple different pumps now and finally found the winning combo. I bought a diaphragm pump that is for boats and motor homes. I run it at 15 minute intervals using a programmable smart plug. I have had the water at 130 degrees at the hottest. Typically it comes out at a temperature of 115 to 125 degrees. And that is at full blast. I no longer have to slow down the flow with a ball valve because I added more water line on the roof a year ago. The system works flawless. Here is a link to the pump and plug timer I am using. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076TGWYDK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079L1RSF7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Scott C slowing down the pump and operating at intervals is killing your efficiency! Why do all the pool heater people think having less bit hotter water is an advantage?! The laws of physics state that heat moves more quickly the greater the temperature difference. You want to pick up as much heat as possible, you keep the water moving and the coils cooler! A hundred gallons heated by one degree contain much more heat energy than a few pints heated by fifty degrees. Every time you switch off your pump or reduce the flow with a valve you are loosing potential free heat.
I think a way to improve the system at minimal cost would be to install on the ground level. Preferably a south facing slope. Build on the ground treated lumber frame all around with insulated foam panels laid on top of heavy plastic sheeting within the frame structure. On top of the foam panels lay several inches of gravel that would absorb and hold heat. Install the black tubing coils on to treated lumber framing that is set inside the over all structure and on top of the gravel. Spray paint the tubing with plastic receptive black spray paint. Then spray paint the tubing and the gravel black with an exterior grade of acrylic paint. Install greenhouse clear plastic sheeting to cover the whole structure and tack treated framing on the edges to hold it down. Use the pools filter pump with a diverter valve at the filter outflow to feed the solar heater tubing. I’d probably use 1” irrigation tubing instead of 3/4” to get a wider range of flow rate. I’d also add shut off valves and a drain plug so the solar tubing system could be isolated and drained as needed. I’m guessing a 12’x16’ framed system like that would cost about $800 to build.
You might consider running the black pipe into your attic. One there is probably plenty of unused space up there. Two you can link as many bundles of tubes you have room for. My attic gets pretty hot on a cool sunny day and in the summer it’s hot as Hades up there 175 degrees or so.
hahah can you imagine the insurance claim when your rigged up solar pool heater hose bursts and pours down from your attic? DENIED! No way should anyone run water lines from a pool solar heater to their attic...
Cool idea but it would be better if all exit water went on ten seperate lines, from each solar collector giving more heat than just one pipe. Plus you could use your pool pump to circulate the hot water ,cause it's running already.
Great information! We are interested in doing this as well and have about the same size L-shaped pool. What was the overall pool water temperature increase (not just at the exit hose) after installing your panels? How long did it take? Thank you for sharing!
I have seen temperature increases of up to 7 degrees F in one day. I keep my own pool least 85 all season long. I have heated the entire pool to 93 degrees before a cool period.
Nice setup! I am working on one right now. So, do you run your pump constantly during sunny days? Or do you use a timer and have it run say every 30 minutes...i.e. on at 11:00, off at 11:30, on at 12:00, off at 12:30...etc? I just wonder if you run it constantly if it keeps "hot" water coming out of the pipe all the time? I am asking for my own information...to know how to finish mine out. Thanks!
Thank you! I run it on sunny days once I know that the cold nights are over. It usually runs from about 8 am until 6 pm. I have direct sunlight hitting it with the angle it's sitting.
Yvette Ruzicka Thanks! I made a 2 panel one and the temps with two different thermometer's show temps of like 160 - 170, on the hose and panels. What I didn't take into account is once I start pumping the 85 degree pool water through it, that the water dramatically cools down the panels and then the pipe and panel temps are only around 100 degrees. Water circulating through it really drops the temps down. Do you see that with your 8 panels?
@@kf4wnf , sorry..just saw this. I have 10 panels, and there is no cool down as long as the sun is out. You have to have enough tubing footage so it can make the difference in getting the water hot... Not just warm, but hot. Thanks
Yvette Ruzicka Wrong! Well, kind of.. your panels will be much more efficient if you can pump enough water through them to keep them cool! Warmer water pick up heat more slowly than cool water. You loose efficiency if the flow is slower, even though the water may come out hotter, there is less of it. It's simple physics. Incidentally, your pump will also draw less power if it's flow is not so restricted.
