I greatly prefer drum sanders with drums underneath like yours for all the reasons you just showed. You did a great job building and now demonstrating your machine. Thanks for sharing with all of us!!!
I have seen a lot of those machines. Even the professional ons which cost over a 3.ooo USD but this one as you made by yourself is just so easy to build that it is almost ridiculous I would pay a penny for a new one. Every woodworker has a lot of stuff laying around. You only have to pay for the bearing and maybe for the motor but in every old washing machine you will find one. It think the it will taken me 1 day to make one by myself as you did. Maybe 1,5 day at most but your machine does what it has do do. I'm building Beehives in different kinds of wood and have to glue a lot of pieces. There is sometimes a little difference in the wood where the pieces are glued together And it take a lot of sanding to get rid of that. With this solution of your, which is the best I can find on the whole internet, it has to be a piece of cake in the future. Thanks for showing us woodworkers and succes with the things you make and the business you have. P.S. It would be appreciated very much when you show me where to by the sanding paper and the Velcro tape. Over here you will find an excellent video how to calculate the length of your paper ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RpfCSz9HwKU.html She made a drum sander but that is a sander which I didn't like to make. The wood is never exactly trait and it has to be pouched trough the drum with force sometimes which will damage the wood in my opinion. Yours will never do that if your constantly pouching it with the same speed over a flat surface. Ans that alone already a great benefit.
It is absolutely wonderful that you share your ideas, techniques, and equipment with the world. Such a refreshing change. You are a natural educator - making the videos with an eye to your audience. Every time I watch one of your videos I find myself asking, for example, "I hope he shows how to change the sand paper!" ... and you do. "I hope he shows an example of this or that stroke for this particular problem with the mirror" ... and you do. Please keep 'em coming!
I will admit you gave a very thorough job of the sander and I appreciate the level of detail. One additional thing to what you mentioned is that although the dust goes down below, there's no need for the noise of a vacuum and that's great. I've been considering doing a drum sander thicknesser for a while but felt it was too complicated. Like the units Stumpy Nubs has built. But the reality is this unit I believe could do the job quite well and I won't have to spend $1400+ on a commercial unit. Those Powermax and Jet units look nice, but then you see they're all plastic hoods and such, and they're still not very wide. The simplicity of your solution has inspired me to put this on my todo list. Thank you so much.
Thanks! While this isn't really a thicknessing sander, it is actually pretty good at leaving the piece flat. So you can do multiple passes without putting waves into the surface. Given that I have the motor, pulleys and belt and laminate for the top hanging around, my out-of-pocket cost was pretty low. But even if you bought all new, the cost isn't that high. I really love mine. If my jobs weren't so large, though, a narrower drum would have worked find, too, and made a more compact machine.
Just wanted to THANK YOU for an excellent video. I was looking at building a pressure-type wide sander -- until I saw your video. Took me two days to add your type of sander to my lathe (hey, it already has a motor and bearings on both ends). So just built a box, bolted it to the lathe bed, created many disk for the drum on my CNC table (but could had made them the old fashion way as well, but that would had taken more time), put it all together, and presto -- we have a beautiful wide drum sander. THANK YOU so much for sharing your knowledgeable and experience. Your video explained everything in a very clear method. Without your video, I would not have a wide-drum sander. It is such a joy. Again, THANKS.
Thanks for your kind words. We are designing and testing a brand new version of our Renegade telescope that is even more appealing to the eye. I think it will be ready to unveil very soon. Thanks again!
watched hours worth of video on the subject and came across this. Case closed!! Great job. I will be be using this design with the similar parts I have laying around
I was thinking in drum sander working how plane too, because generally people uses drum sander how a thicknesser only. In truth, we can make combined machine with up and down passes the drum. A lift table down and a flat above the drum.
Gordon, you are incredible. Thank you so much for sharing. Where you are using pillow block bearings, I do not understand why the roller raises. If for utility you decided to have three different drums for the three grits you are using, have you considered widening and deepening the side slots where the pillow block bearing fit, making a "U" shaped pillow assembly with squared corners, and making a keeper to secure the "U" so it does not rise or shift? The pillow blocks would be mounted in the bottom of the "U." (Yea, more expense as you would need two more sets of pillow blocks, drums, and shafts.) One could use locating pins to assure proper fit and contribute to the rigidity of the system. A long brush installed parallel to your drum might assist in reducing the small amount of dust you get on the leading table. A "V" shaped hopper with a trap door would assist in cleaning out the dust bin. If you really want to go rad, install a vacuum tube along the full length of the bottom of the "V" (no trap door this time), perforate the tube, stop up one end of the tube, hook up a shop vac on the open end of the tube that sticks out the side and go for it. . . Yea, I know it is a noise generator... Keep them coming!
Hi, Gordon! The roller itself doesn't raise during operation. The sandpaper itself is "flung out" away from the drum due to the centripetal force caused by the fast rotation. The sandpaper is attached with hook and loop fasteners, and it really isn't perfectly tight against the drum. The rotation causes the paper to move away from the drum just enough to actually get in contact with the piece you are sanding. Regarding multiple drums for different grades of abrasive... I only contemplated that until I found out how easy it is to change the paper. Once you've done it once or twice, it's not really any hassle at all. Far easier to store rolls of paper rather than multiple drums, as the drums are actually pretty heavy, especially if you include the bearings! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Gordon that so far is the best sander I have ever seen. I live in Africa and getting woodworking tools is very hard to get even used tools. I am trying to learn to make my own tools and RU-vid has been a source of knowledge. I would really like to build this type of sander. I don’t know if you are able to share the plans or provide the source of where you get your Velcro and sandpaper. I appreciate you sharing this with the world of woodworkers. I look forward to more updates in the future. Johnny
I’m still not clear on the effect of mass needed (or not) for the drum. For instance wood circles vs. pvc pipe has been mentioned; does this system need the mass of all that wood or will 3” schedule 40 pvc (actual 3.5” od) do the job? Is drum weight (or mass) stricty related to the hp & rpm of the motor & pulleys? The BEST vid anywhere on this contraption!!👍
I doubt that mass in important. I choose wood instead of PVC because I wasn't sure the pipe would maintain a straight profile without sagging. My drum is longer than most, and that was my worry. Also, the wood seemed super easy to fabricate, and was known to work well.
I'm finally getting around to building this thing this coming week. As opposed to using 3 inch diameter plywood for the drum, I thought I would use a 4 inch PVC pipe, as they are machined or molded to pretty exact standards. One of the things that keeps running through my head is the tolerances on a machine like this. If the drum is not spinning absolutely true, I mean down to the thousands of an inch, you would be hitting a high spot. Same thing applies to the table surface. If that thing is not perfectly flat, you're going to be sanding more in one spot than the other. While I know things like melamine are pretty flat, I can also say most MDF or particleboard tend to sag over time. I've built a few router tables already that were much smaller than this, and it's very difficult trying to keep them flat. Angle iron seem to be the best option for me so far attached to the bottom. I know you're using one stiffener, and hopefully that will keep that top flat. I can't help thinking that this would be incredibly difficult to get tune down to the thousands of an inch over such a large surface, and to keep it that way. Most of these type machines are made out of metal I think for that reason. Perhaps the thickness of the Velcro is helping to even out any irregularities? I can certainly see if you just had sandpaper attached to a drum, that you would definitely get some high spots and low spots, and compound that with something that may not be spinning perfectly true, and a tabletop that could possibly not be coplanar, and wow... that just seems like a lot of variables to try to control. I've decided to go a bit smaller, and put mine on my lathe, and actually turn the ends on the lathe as well so that they are perfectly centered, and then insert those into the 4 inch PVC. That should hopefully keep everything perfectly centered and spinning true. I'm then going to use the bed of the lathe to build the wooden box, but thinking very strongly about putting lateral adjusters on the hinge mounts to try to compensate for any differences. I can definitely see it being very easy to tweak a tabletop out of being coplanar (very easy), and again, maybe even more difficult to keep it that way. Comments on any of this?
Hi, Troy! I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this sander works. The sandpaper spirals around the drum, and is held to it with "hook and loop" fasteners, or "Velcro." The sandpaper cannot be tight against the drum, because the hooks and loops are not able to hold it tight. When the drum spins up to full speed, the sandpaper is actually forced AWAY from the platen by the spinning. So the sandpaper isn't really backed by the platen, it is backed by just the air under it! The physics of the situation demand that the sandpaper becomes pretty nearly a perfect circle floating over the top of the platen. But the key is that the sandpaper isn't rigid, it is flexible. So when you properly adjust the platen, the hard part of the surface of the platen is actually below the opening in the top. The only thing above the opening is the sandpaper, and only when the machine is spinning will it stick up enough to do the sanding. So the platen itself has nothing to do with the sanding action. Only the spinning sandpaper has skin in the game! So it isn't particularly important that the platen be perfect. You would be wasting your time to try to make it perfect in any way. Good enough is good enough in this case. Also, this sander isn't meant to be a thickness sander, but a finish sander. Even if you put #80 sandpaper in the machine, it isn't very aggressive. The spinning sandpaper is actually very level when it is pushed away from the platen by the spinning. And the level of the table is forgiving because the sandpaper floats on air above the opening. If the table isn't quite level, the sandpaper is just pushed down a little more against the air behind it in that spot. Only if the table was grossly out of square would you have any trouble. All in all, this isn't a precision build in any way. You just rely on the design and physics to do the job! Of course, if your platen is way out of round, you would get vibration which would be annoying. Get past that, though, and you are good to go! -Gordon Waite
I did have some understanding of how these work from watching the "flat master" videos, but I still thought the tolerances were very tight. I'm glad to hear there is some wiggle room. I'm not looking for a thickness sander. If I really need to thickness something I will run it through the thickness planer. About the only real problem with a thickness planer is snipe, and many times I will attach some longer boards to the piece to avoid the snipe. Anyway, they still need a final sanding as the finish is not glass smooth, and of course I do a lot of building out of plywood. I definitely would not want anything aggressive there. Sounds like the PVC I'm consider for the drum is going to work out fine, and I like the idea of mounting on my lathe as I don't have to buy another motor, and takes up less space too. I'll let you know how it works out. Thanks again for all the feedback! There's no way I could have even considered doing a project like this without your videos, so I'm most grateful for all your time and effort! Troy
If you were to wrap a piece of wood with 60 grit sand paper then run it over the table top, and have it engage your pvc, this would correct any cylindrical anomalies.
Thanks, Steve. It's nice to have a project where you actually get a lot of good out of it in the end. And every time I use that sander, it still gives me good thoughts!
Nice presentation, thank you! This looks like it would work well for cabinet doors. Where may I purchase the hook & loop material for the drum and paper?
Thanks so much for this. What an inspiration. I'm midway through building one and I'm to the point of ordering pulleys. Can you recommend an ideal RMP for the drum? I have a variety of motors to choose from and want to be sure to have the drum spinning at an appropriate speed. Thanks!
I would think you would want to sand at about 2,000 surface feet per minute. Assuming a diameter of about 4" for the drum, that would give you a circumference of about 12 inches or one foot. So if the motor is running at a standard speed around 1750 rpm, you would be fine. For under $10 you could buy a slightly bigger pulley for the drum if you want to try slowing it down some.
Very well done! I just fell in love with this style of sander and can't wait to build one for myself. Where did you find the hook and loop for the drum? Is it in a strip like the paper or in a sheet?
Thanks, Joel! The "loops" that I put on the drum are from McMaster-Carr. They look like they originally came from May Material Specialist, Inc., at www.mjmay.com. The roll I used is 2" wide, but it doesn't matter, as you just need to cover the drum. The sandpaper roll is 3" wide, and comes in 10-yard rolls from USA1 Abrasives, at www.usa1.com. The sandpaper says "no-load" paper on it, and it is made in the EU. This tool is so simple to design and build, yet it is one of the most-used tools in my shop.
Thanks for the info. I am about to build one for my self about the same drum size as yours. I was thinking I would need a 3/4 or 1 HP motor but I just rewatched your video I see you used a smaller motor.Have you been happy with the 1/2 HP motor? Have you run something over the entire drum with out it slowing down?
I have had no problems, but I don't run a lot of material that is touching all of the drum. But to be honest, I don't think it would bog down much. If it is adjusted to only touch the material when spinning, you can't end up with much pressure. I know the sand paper last forever! Good luck with yours.
Sorry, Hotrod, but I didn't make up a set for this one. It's easy to build, though as there aren't really any precision pieces. You can make it any size you want. The size of the platen isn't particularly important, so make it 3", 5", whatever. Make it as wide as you need. Build one and enjoy it!
You can figure it out like this... Assume you are using 2" wide Velcro. Take the length of your platen in inches, like 30 inches. It would take 15 two-inch rings to cover it. (15 * 2 = 30) Each ring is the diameter of the platen (like 5" maybe) times pi, or 5 * 3.14 = about 16 inches per ring. Take your 15 rings and add 2 rings on the ends for the angles. So you need 17 rings times 16 inches per ring, or 272 inches, which is about 23 feet. Plug in your own numbers. Probably more Velcro than you might think at first! Good luck and enjoy the project.
Thank you very much Gordon! Guess I was looking for the quick answer and not wanting to do the math;) One other question about the Velcro and sandpaper . Did you use the standard, multipurpose Velcro or the super adhesive from McMaster Carr? I think I will use 3" PVC for the platen, and plug the ends. Also, does the sandpaper come as a hook or loop? It appears you can order the Velcro for the platen in either a hook or loop, but not positive about how the sandpaper comes. I'm going to guess as a loop. I honestly don't know, and would rather not have to return the velcro for the platen.
Hi, Troy! You want to get "hook" Velcro, as the sandpaper is "loop." I got my Velcro from McMaster-Carr, 2", black, standard adhesive back. There isn't really much stress on the material, so I wouldn't worry. Although the difference in price isn't much, so get the super adhesive stuff if you need to sleep well at night! ;)
I mounted the drum in the machine, and lowered the top until the high spots on the drum were standing a tiny bit proud above the top surface of the machine. Then I held a sanding block with some #80 sandpaper still on the top, over the slot. Anything higher that the slot is sanded down. I would hold it in one spot for a minute, then lift it and set it down a little farther down the platen. Only took a few minutes, as my CNC-cut platen wheels were pretty good in the first place. I did this before I put the laminate on the top, so the laminate wouldn't be scratched.
@@GordonWaite I really enjoy watching your channel and I'm now thinking about doing my own mirror. I hope you'll have time to continue working on more videos ;)
Thanks! I was just talking with Emerson, who edited the video, about getting a better microphone system. I don't do video outside very often, and my camera really isn't up to the challenge. We'll get better, though!
