Thanks for the video. I have just completed my conversion and am very happy with it. I had not considered the possibility of a second chainring but it is good to know it is possible.
Many thanks for replying to my comment and the advice, weirdly it's not showing below but I got your email, thanks. Yes now I understand the Tongsheng works like a regular Bosch motor e-bike that only provides rider assistance when pedalling forwards (backpedalling disengages the chainring like in your video around 10mins). Whereas Bafang kits can spin the chainrings fast when using the throttle but allow the crank arms and pedals to stay still like when freewheeling.
Sorry - I wanted to refine the answer so I deleted it. But as you received the notification; that's basically it. Just to recap it in short for other readers: the tongsheng is torque sensing, so cranks and chainrings are (nearly) connected like on a "normal" bike. Difference is the torque sensor sensing the force on the pedals. The force is then amplified by the motor which "assists" the pedaling human. This makes torque sensing feel very natural and secure.
I had to reroute the cables when I put mine on my Scwhinn AL Comp. the stock tubes ALMOST fit, but didn't have a tube to trim the tube slightly to take up the slack. The bike has braizers for a waterbottle, but my battery is a cheap loose kind, so it's in a $15 frame bag. My front derailleur is almost maxed out as it is, so no second ring for me. It's also worth noting that pushing the gears out that that far is a bit hard on the chain, too. Also, going into the hidden menu on the display (Hold I and Power for three seconds, then press I 4-5 times very quickly), you can turn off the 25kmh limiter in there (Note, this is naturally illegal in many areas, Here in my state and city nobody cares). Not that the motor is powerful enough to go THAT much faster. I just finished my conversion this morning. Suprisingly torque-y little motor. I would have gone for the much cheaper gas-bike (same idea, but a 1.5-3hp 2-stroke engine instead) but they're loud and I ride at night sometimes.
Thanks for the information. I also had the problem with cables being to long but did not want to cut them. I have put them into the small grey plastic tube attached to the vertical tube (see 04:10 ). I am aware that you can change the speed limit, but in Germany this is strictly illegal possibly getting you deeply into troubles. Regarding the chain: you are right that the chain travel is a little bit on the outer side, but to me this seems defnitely no problem if using the large chain with the outer gears (the front derailleur is built for triple chain ring). Have fun with your schwinn MTB! - and yes - with a fresh battery and turbo mode there is lots of power!
@@intothebridge Indeed. I mentioned the hidden menu mostly for my fellow American folks who bought one direct from China to save some money (US dealers milk us, sadly). There is other handy bits in there, too, like wheel size and amperage if you need to lower it to match a battery ( for any fellow Yankees passing by: you can push the current limit *higher*, But the TSDZ2 is a 250W design... I wouldn't push it too hard, it can overheat apparently. Mine was 16A@48V from the dealer for reference. I dropped it an amp just to test things with a bit of margin). I did finally get a chance to take it for a proper ride yesterday after I posted, and it was indeed VERY fun. Speed wise? On throttle, it didn't seem to want to go much faster than 16mph on it's own, with 209lb me on it anyway (US limit is.. 21 on throttle-power I believe). However with the limiter off, it'll continue to assist pedaling regardless of how fast one is going (which is why Germany words it the way they do, LOL). Our laws only mention limit on throttle, so you CAN exploit that loophole, fellow Americans, just make sure your brakes are up to the task. I thought mine would be, they are not :D The only thing that I find I really *don't* like about this motor is that, when using the throttle, there seems to be a half-second delay between pressing the thumb and when torque kicks in. If I'm using it as a pedal-assist, the assist is *instantaneous*. The difference between the two is baffling. Also 6v lights being expensive as heck here, but that's not the motor's fault. wish it had an output for explicit brake lights and not just running lights, considering it has lever sensors. As I'm now too fast for the sidewalk and bike lanes even on throttle...
Thanks for sharing your experience. After watching your video, I searched on eBay and got my TSDZ2B with battery on a double stack rear rack so I don't have to deal with problem of fitting battery to water bottle mount. I also got a front derailleur for 3 chainrings for my double chainrings setting. I am still waiting for my parts and quite exciting about how the result would be.
Glad the video was useful! Be sure to have a vintage front derailleur (as show in my other video). Derailleurs from 1999 on will probably not work. A rear rack battery is also a good solution. Cheers!
i got the tsdz2b.... with the 15ah battery its add sooooo much weight. you dont want to carry it far, like up stairs at a railway station lol. thanx for showing the 2 chainring. i was wandering how ppl did that
Sorry to hear that the bike is so much weight. I just recently built another bike based on a 1999s wilier elite hardtail MTB (which I will present later on this channel when I have time). With - also - TSDZ2B and 15Ah/36V the bike weighs total below 17kg which is by far lighter than any stock ebike-MTB you can buy. But it's still a weight to carry...
With battery mounting I found a nice battery mount solution that folk can buy or make themselves. Essentially its a large aluminium plate that fastens to the bike frame both by the water bottle bosses, and two sturdy jubilee clips. This then provides extra screw holes for you to mount your battery securely and move it in the frame to fit. Which was necessary on my conversion as the bottle mount was way to low in the frame. The extra jubilee clips spread the load of my heavy battery across the frame nicely and helps prevent overtorquing the bottle mounts.
Very good idea. Also on my bike the bottle mount was too low so I moved the battery holder up one hole and drilled an additional into the steel frame. works well. But a mounting plate made of aluminium is a better idea.
Great video, interesting to see with 2 chainrings - I've been trying to find out if the Tongsheng motor ever spins the chainrings faster than your pedalling RPM? For example, when you are pedalling hard do the rings speed up and spin faster than your cadence? I know the Bafang spins on it's own on throttle and without pedalling, but does the TSD work like the factory built Bosch/Shimano ebike motors (ie they don't do anything unless you pedal)? I can't see this on any youtube videos.
Thanks! I am using the standard LCD screen delivered with the TSDZ2. Torque sensing is not only very "natural" to bike with but also makes installation easier as you don't need special brakes with cabling (which interrupt the motor when braking). So it's more "sportive" and fun :-)
Thanks. This video has a lot practical advices and really inspires me. I was considering building or converting my first ebike with either this tongsheng kit and the other one from bafang. For the tongsheng kit, is gear shiftsensor necessary? Will you get trouble when you shift gears (back) without gear shift sensor? I heart if one wants to have gear shiftsensor connected, one of the brake sensor has to be sacrificed. Is that true? Thank you again for this great video.
Thanks for the comment. As the tongsheng kit is based on torque sensing (your torque/force applied to the pedals is reinforced by the motor up to 300%) there is no need for brake sensors. If you stop pedaling, the motor does no more support. That's an huge advantage: brakes stay the same, no cabling. I never heard of a gear shift sensor. The TSDZ2 only has a speed sensor to be mounted on one of the wheels, that's all. Thanks and good luck!
You get the "original" chain rings in different sizes. Only the larger ones are offset chainrings as this is not possible for the smaller ones (too close to the motor). I use a small "original" 34T chainring (no offset) as smaller one and one standard 5-hole chainring (43t) as larger chainring. Especially if you have just one chainring "no offset" is no problem. However it could be necessary to remove the protective ring (didn't try that).
In fact I have recently seen a conversion with TSDZ2 and cables under the bottom bracket. So it seems there is (at least on this bike) a few millimeters space between the motor and the bottom bracket. So this may be possible. That being said if you have cables under the bottom bracket I strongly recommend to have a look at the technical drawing of the TSDZ2 and check the with the size of your bike/bottom bracket (or just try it if your dealer allows you to return the motor). Hope this helps.
I tried 4 derailleurs and a good 3 days trying to get a double chain ring working but no chance in hell the derailleur was going to move over enough. My bottom bracket is only 68 mm. Probably why you are the only one on the internet that is showing it being done because it is pretty hard to make it work
Sorry to hear that. I am sure that you adjusted the little screws to maximum travel. I furthermore had to tighten the cable to the derailleur so the full travel was used. If the derailleur is able to match the large chainring but gear does not change, you can while riding temporarily switch to larger sprockets on rear so the chain get's more diagonally. Currently I also have to do this (but plan to adjust tension of cable). This helps the derailleur to move the chain to large chain ring, after that change back to small sprocket (outer sprocket)). Did this help?
Referring to point after 9:45 of this video it seems that pedaling the bike feels like having zero pedaling resistance. Is it so or it’s a misconception? This does not happen to my tsdz2 . There is always a little resistance, comparing before installing the motor, in both directions (forward and reverse) when the motor is "power off". Since the motor is very new, just a couple of days, I wonder if this behavior changes after some Kms of usage. Please comment. TNX
In fact the resistance is close to zero. When pedalling without motor support it's(for me) nearly not noticeable. So from when pedalling in a plane when changing from eco-support to zero support you won't feel any difference. However there is a little bit of resistance: ff you would let go the cranks while turning they would stop immediately. Hope that helps!
Hi, very nice video! Thank you for share it! I have a doubt about the frame to use the tsdz2, see if you can help me, please. Is really necessary to use a chromoly frame? What do you think about the Triban RC 120 with tsdz2 48V 750W?
Thanks for the friendly comment! The triban rc120 seems to be a nice bike. I think an alu frame is also a good option. The only point to consider is how to mount the battery. In this case I would not go for the bottle holder threads but instead use a "frame pack"-battery. Before buying parts be sure the bottom bracket has the correct dimensions. Besides that the motor option you mention is really powerful (seems you are from US as in Europe motor power is limited to 250W - otherwise it would be a "motor bike"). 750W is quite higher than an average human is able to produce - so maybe the bike should be extra robust - but you will find information on this for sure elsewhere. Thanks!
Hello, dear friend from Germany! I don't know if I can call it that, please don't get me wrong! I confess that I was surprised by your very kind response! Like you, I also use a bike to go to work, very good! My exams showed improvements in health! The problem is when it rains! About two weeks ago I was attracted by a Decathlon promotion and... I know I should have certified compatibility before... but... I bought a RiverSide 540 MS hybrid bike At my location it comes with 9 speed 1x microshift (11-46). I had commented on Triban because I had bought an RS size S since other sizes were out of stock, maybe I had to opt for another model, but now my size has arrived. I will only use the bike in urban areas, nothing offroad, riding in a respectful way, the option for 750W, it is exclusively due to overcome climbs more easily and maybe take someone on the pillion, eventually, but I know this will be possible because of the limitation , according to Decathlon, 105 kg, pilot + load and also for being only 32 holes. Lately I had a lot of commitments and only now, next Saturday, will I go to the store to check compatibility details with the tsdz2. I already bought the battery, it is a hailong 48V 20mah, I received it in the second half of January. This battery already comes with a support to be installed on the two bottle screws in the center of the bike, it even looks like yours in your video. Do you think there might be a problem with this standard way of installing the battery? I think I'll take the battery to the shop to see if it fits the frame. Considering your experience, the following requirements are necessary: inner diameter from 33.5 to 35 mm, width from 68 to 73 mm and wall thickness less than 8 mm must not have cables running under the bottom bracket Are there any other details I should check? Thank you so much and may God bless you and your family!
@@armandocioffineto6367 Sounds good. I think the bottom bracket is no problem, but the combination of frame/battery could be. Hailong (actually it's the battery case manufacturer) batteries can be a problem on the bottle holder screws (as it was for my conversion). That's why a so called "soft pack" mounted in the frame may be easier to install. Hailong builds also side load cases but also these need the bottle holder at the right place. Maybe think of rivet nuts if the bottle holes are not at the right place and use three of them. I think decathlon builds decent quality so this also could work. Cheers.
nice video. When you are talking about liability at the end (since you are from Germany) what do you mean exactly ? I am asking because I am currently living in Germany also and I am very interested in doing such a conversion, probably minus the double chain ring. I intend to go for the 250 W standard motor and not reflash it or anything else. That is legal right ?
To my knowledge a TSDZ2 with 250W and stopping support at 25 km/h is legal. I also strongly recommend to buy the set at a german vendor (e.g. enerpower) where you can additionally check that motor and battery have a CE certificate. Liability comes into play when something "happens", e.g. you have a collision with others: the police will make a check if your bicycle corresponds to law. If you do the conversion for somebody else who then changes the max speed or encounters any other technical problem mitigating safety you could be in troubles. I added to my bike a suspension fork and changed cantilever brakes to v-brake. Same here: I am responsible if a possible fault on my side causes an accident, so I would never do this for anyone else - for me it's perfectly fine as I know where my skills end. Finally: my personal opinion however is that my conversion built upon a rock-solid steel bike is much more safe and reliable than all the cheap 1000 EUR e-bikes around.
Thanks! The motor was appr. 300 EUR, battery roughly the same. You can buy the motor only and then choose a battery with desired capacity/mounting even from an other vendor. This free choice is in my opinion an huge advantage: the battery has to be 38V that's more or less all. You could e.g. carry a second smaller battery as backup in your backpack.
@@intothebridge what is the better place for buy both? The batery 36v and what capacity for about 80kms of treking ride? Tks so much for this infos ,) My frame is alu, one riverside 500
@@camaleaao I bought battery and motor as a set from a chinese trader on amazon. In germany there is a seller (enerpower) who would be my choice for the next conversion. Especially for the battery in europe a CE signing is important. With respect to battery size: this is a difficult question. As physics is for every ebike the same I would consult a battery calculator from the internet.
Maybe I missed it, but what size is your battery and how many watts is the motor? I converted my bike with a 500W Bafang BBS02 and a 36V 16Ah battery, and the box with all the conversion parts weighed in at 10kg! Then of course the old crank comes of the bike, etc, but it certainly looks heavier than your Tongsheng. I regret getting the Bafang since it lacks torque sensing and I'm thinking of changing to a Tongsheng later.
I used the tongsheng 250W with a 10Ah battery (to fit inside the frame). In Germany/Austria if motor power is more than 250W you need insurance/license plate. So the additional weight is appr 3kg motor and 3kg battery. The bicycle has (guessed) 13-14 kg so overall weight should be below 20kg. And yes: torque sensing is so "natural" to drive!
@@intothebridge Yeah, same rules here in Sweden. But I got the 500W since I have to tow my kid in a wagon up some quite steep hills to get home from kindergarten, and I didn't want to end up with too little power since I also lost the front gears. I actually also changed the rear cassette from 12-25 to 11-28. The higher gearing comes to good use on the more deserted stretches of flat road, but with full power I hardly need the lowest gear even with the loaded wagon. :) Running on 50% or lower power the low gears really helps though, so it is good to know for the event I forget to charge the battery and run out of juice. The only bad thing about this build (besides no torque sensor) is probably that I ruined legal e-bikes for myself. ;)
@@intothebridge If you are not using a throttle with the Tongsheng, is there really any need for brake sensors? I mean, with the Bafang you certainly need it when you slow down but still want to rotate the pedals to get into lower gear. Without it, the motor will immediately start to pull. But with torque sensor the motor disengages as soon as you don't put any force on the pedals, so you should be able to slow down while gearing down without the motor interfering?
@@itekani Correct: you don't need brake sensors with torque sensing (and they are not part of the conversion kit). If you reduce force on the pedals, the support form the motor reduces proportionally. E.g if you go downhill you just can pedal without any force to get gears switched and the motor will remain disengaged. This is very smoothly - there is no sudden onset of force and no sudden lack of force - your own force is simply multiplied by the motor. Only be aware, that when starting on high support your own "starting force" is also multiplied. So when starting on a steep hill it could be a good idea first to reduce support (to get off in a controlled manner) and then increase again motor support.
Motor support is subject to local laws thus limited to 25 km/h. Then the motor turns off. Pedaling resistance is very low so - if you are fit enough - you can go faster on your own :-)
