E-bike Motor Buying Guide: Bafang BBS02 BBSHD, CYC Stealth PRO Photon, Tongsheng Tsdz2, Cyclone more 

I did a BBS02 a year ago and your videos were very helpful. Thank you! Have not had a lick of trouble with it and happy that I did it.

This is the best video I've watched which covers all of the common DIY ebike kits. Well done!

Great video Johnny! People like you are the foundation of the e-bike community. You’re helping to get people onto an e-bike, and hopefully out of a car, at least partially. You’ve already helped me immensely and I’ve only watched a few of your videos. Can’t imagine how many others you’ve helped through consultations. Keep up the great work bro. Cheers

I learned more from your 15 minute video then I did from hours of research online. I will be buying a bafang motor from you shortly. Thank you

Thank you, thank you! Great way to start us off for 2023. Definitely needed this info, keep up the great work J.❤

A quick thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. I booked a 10 minute to get your help with my project. I look forward to our chat. Thanks for sharing.

Been running a CYC photon on a vintage Marin road/trail full-sus MTB for about 6 months. On a 48V 20Ah battery it will run 750W continuous without overheating but can peak at twice that for maybe 1-2 minutes for a hill. Torque sensing is brilliant and everything is adjustable. Very happy.

Thanks, that was a very helpful video, everything in perspective makes it easy for me to make a decision. I will be going for the Bafang BBS02.

BBSHD ! For me ! When ,I bought the Bafang ,I also bought second parts and park tools and Bafang shop tools too ! I do all myself been ripped off to many times ! Thank you m8 ! Im after quality and speed !

Thanks Johnny, you saved me from hub motors. I watched your previous videos and got a BBS02, converted it myself and I love it :)

Just finished install of CYC Photon on a Catrike Dumont. Super smooth power delivery. Up to 1200W programmable and if you select unrestricted mode you can get 2000W, but only for a few seconds before the controller safeguards shut down the fun. The 1200W and 110Nm max torque gets the trike to 30mph pretty quickly. The App is excellent. You can pick the basic rules set, i.e. USA, EU, Unrestricted, and the wattage/speed is limited to the maximums for those laws. Then you have complete control over the pedal assist and torque amounts in two modes, street and race, with 3 levels in each. Really nice programming ability. The best I have seen on any motor. The choices of 165mm or 175mm crank arm length, three different chainring sizes, and three different display options make this a sweet deal and justifies the slightly higher price. Oh, and it is very light, sealed and high quality machine finished. I have already bought a second kit for my wife’s trike. You will sell a lot of them once the word gets out.

Thanks for the consultation. You directed me to the Tsdz2. I've only got 20miles on it so far. No indication of drain on the battery and plenty of power for me to zip around town at up to 35mph! I'm a strong cyclist so YMMV. The bike/battery is heavier (feeling) than anticipated. And the thick frame did provide some challenges in mounting (cannondale trail6). I'm hoping for better longevity than others are suggesting but also I have the skills to replace broken parts. I appreciate your advice and business.

so happy i found your channel !! will be booking a consultation soon

Excellent content , hope your personal advice service goes well for you, I'd certainly use it if I hadn't already given myself grey hairs on my build

Splendid! I've been waiting for this one.

I’m 220lbs and My BBSHD build took me up the steepest street in Pittsburgh pa. It might just be the steepest paved road in the USA. I ❤ it!

Love your channel ❤️ can't wait to schedule a consultation with you for my 1st eletric build

Just the video we needed. Thanks Johnny!

Just the video I needed to see. Thanks man.

As I understood the issue between Tongsheng and Bafang had to deal with the internal clutches used. The new TSDZ2 (TSDZ2B) has different internal clutch mechanisms than the older one

I have a Truckrun motor installed on my bike. It is Lekkie spec and sold by Converted here in NZ (Lekkie retail arm) 48 volt system (300 watts, legal for the roads). Had it year, used most days, been reliable and a natural feel. It is installed on Trek Dual sport 3. A similar Trek prebuilt bike (Allant) would have cost about $3000 more!

tsdz2 36v 500w tq sensing!!! have mine set up as cat I, has 4000miles love it

More great information from Johnny.

Such great info. Thanks so much. Building my knowledge to prepare to convert my stump jumper.

Thank you so much, for this video. Very useful information, about mid drive motor kits, available in China. I have to order my first BAFANG BBS 02 from China. Very practical and good video

I like that front wheel halo you got going on there, St. Johnny

Got my 750W to play with and later swap to my wife's old mtn bike which is the exact same bike but smaller. Also, we're getting ready to open NerdOut EastCoast. Time to expand Johnny. Come to the grand openning...cut the ribbon. LOL We front the cash...you supply the stickers.

2022 had some heart issues for me following covid so i got an excuse to get some power on my bike. After wachting a bunch of you videos i grabbed the bike of my wife and mine and built in two BBSHDs and kinda programmed them street legal for Germany and left some buffer using it only at 25A just to have long time fun with it. Since there the german police does not own a dyno for bicycles i just set them up für 27kph and had a heck lots of fun with it. Went for 48V and 17.5Ah and drove like 50km with 20% battery usage in January. Wasnt pretty sure if i should use a hub or mid drive but u made the decision very clear for me in your guides. Thanks mate!

I'm building my first dream Ebike using a good Motobecane X2 gravel bike. I ordered the CYC Photon 750 watt from Canadian Golden Motors. It's 52 volts.

I think I need to book a consult eventually. I want to convert my hybrid bike to mid drive, but not sure where to start. This video helped as I noticed a bunch of recent videos on the new cyc motor, but wasn't sure if it was any good.

I've been leaning towards the Grin Tech All-Axle direct drive motors. It really looks like an easy to use motor with a lot of useful features.

My BBS02 had never give my problems and i use it in Norway int cold, snow and dirt. The install is easy too.

I really love the TSDZ2. It is a great way to get started. For me, torque sensing is a must and it gives a natural feel. Flashing the open source firmware makes it ultra customisable.

love my cyc pro on my marin full suspension....so cool.

I must admit, I'm heavily leaning to the cyc photon. I like the torque assist built in

Great overview, had Bafang on my wish list for couple of months but wasn't aware of Tongsheng. Should be much more convenient with torque sensing in UK, legal at 250W. So Tongsheng it is for me. Did't now even know that there was such a thing as torque sensing ones. Thank you.

You are the man!

Great knowledgeable video.

Thank you Johnny.

Great info !!! thank you

I have a BBS02B 36V 500W that I've been off-roading for +/- 6 years now. Reprogramed it for 25A, so it's more like 900W. I send it "jump", go through rock gardens, make crazy climbs, and back down again. A little heavy on the bottom bracket, but It's AMAZING, very reliable, never had a problem. Of course, I dont go full throttle for more than 10-15 seconds, and I always down shift to let it go to at least half of max RPM so it dont overheat it. I did hit it quite a few times on rocks, got the scars to prove it, but it hold up perfectly. I do maintenance each year in the winter, like clean and re grease, check bearing and if there was any water infiltrations. I did use a little bit of sealant because I had water creeping in the final drive plastic casing, "I do ride when it's wet and muddy" but apart from that, it's perfect. Changed the plastic gear three years ago it's still fine, but next year it's going out. Finding parts is easy. Got a new gear on AliExpress for $17CAD and noticed that spare parts are readily available for fair prices. Currently thinking of buying the M600 and building a carbon bike around it. Or just buying a cheap bike with it and swapping frames. For me, Bafang are awesome.

I think I will go for the CYC Photon this spring. Me hoping that you will do a install video like you did with the BBSHD.

The TSDZ2 can be 750 nominal, but you are correct that peak is the same as the 500. I like the fact that it is so lightweight and parts are cheap and available everywhere. Range is astounding! If you add a throttle, reliability goes out the window. Working with a Photon right now. Super quiet, stays cool, slips over everything and can't wait to see what this nominally legal motor, with a peak approaching BBSHD and torque around 120 os going to feel like. I'm really excited about it. I'll sell it with the same profit as I make installing a TSDZ2 to keep thebcost down and get a few more super satisfied customers.

9:55 Tongsheng "Supernatural feeling" 😂👻

Hey Johnny I was wondering if you have tried any of the asi bac controllers? I'm looking at the bac855 paired with a bbs02 using just a single gear on a belt drive 29er platform. Any thoughts...thnx

I ended up converting 2 greenway bikes with TSDZ2 open source firmware kits using the 960 displays and 52v super shark batteries. Really great for greenway riding up to 20mph with good battery economy and typically only need to be on level 2 (of 9) for greenway uphill grades or headwinds. Very interested to see how the new Photon turns out for some builds and how loud it is - only complaint with TSDZ2 so far is after only a few rides the noise on it gets quite a bit louder than when brand new.

It would be cool to see in gear hub demos for mid drive shoot out or at least comparison - Rohloff, Shimano, Enviolo, Sturmey-Archer, et al; there are several internally geared hub manufacturers and a few are being used in PEV. Belt drives would be good to see more demo/info on too. Thanks for putting up the content you do; it takes time to produce and publish useful things for us to watch.

By the way, the sound of the motor in Bafang HD is very pleasant and futuristic, not at all annoyed.

I was thinking of converting my sun Baja trike over with the mid drive bbs02 motor I seen on line there is the same trike that has the same set up but was concerned about that kit in rain since I fish the cape cod canal and use my trike for fishing and have it all set up with rod holders. Was wondering how it would do if it down pours on the trike. Or do you recommend something else. I really want to convert it over.

agreed on the BBS02 hard to beat for the price. I would have tried a CYC by now if they weren't so loud, and the company leveled up a bit. Not a fan of their marketing. They tell you the new motors quiet, and its not. They start taking pre orders for the Gen3 before it even exists, Lol its like a kickstarter without any pictures or anything. They post vids on YT and then take them down, cuz everyone is making fun of their motor for overheating in a few minutes of riding. Every time CYC post or do anything its like cmon what are you doing. If they can barely market their product i wonder how their support is

I'll eventually put a Photon on my old Cannondale Rush full suspension. I've already converted it to a one-by drivetrain, and the Photon has a suitable small chainring option. And I really hate cadence sensing on my BBS02 converted bike.

So far, the best of the best for me here in the UK (hilly wales) is the Cyclone 3KW matched up with a Grin technologies Cycle Analyst to manage the combined input from a half grip Throttle and a Torque-sensing bottom bracket. Unlike ANY other mid-drive you get to keep your front derailleur and Hi/LO range with the triple chainring kit, so you use one chainring for the drive to the motor and the other 2 chainrings for epic gear range for any hill and towing stuff. Easy to limit it to 15MPH too for legality, with the Cycle analyst reading the RPM of the wheels through a spoke-mounted magnet without losing the torque to effortlessly glide up any hill on the lowest gear. If you don't have a torque-sensing bottom bracket, you will want to use the handlebar-mounted button RPM/PAS limiter included with the LCD version of the Cyclone controller so you can add in your own leg power in any gear easily, without the additional motor RPM limiter the motor will try to spin the cranks too fast for you to keep up when you are in a low gear climbing a hill unless you carefully manage the throttle. The 5 settings RPM limiter on number 2 or 3 lets you peg the throttle and just enjoy the ride. Also made in Taiwan rather than mainland china, so you are not sending money to Winnie the Pooh and his totalitarian dictatorship too (those guys are actively undermining your freedoms and messing with you by buying their way into all your countries institutions using the money you send them by buying made in china stuff, then using that power to influence what can and cannot be in your movies and on TV and even setting up Chinese police stations in your own countries, seriously weird and creepy that that is even possible and happening IMO). Little more chain maintenance due to running mid-drive, but I've found the best is to wax your chains rather than oil, The channel "oz Cycle" has an excellent video on this, search youtube for "ultimate chain wax - make it yourself" and you should find it Makes your chain last a lot longer, does not get dirty, so you can touch your chain without your hands coming away black, and is generally a lot less hassle than trying to degrease your chain thoroughly and get every last bit of dirt out with toothbrushes or a chain cleaner tool (and good luck getting the INSIDE of the chain clean unless you repeat half a dozen times and even then it's unsure) Easy enough to Wax, thoroughly Degrease your chain with Petrol (best to do this with a NEW chain that is clean INSIDE from the factory) For the first time degreasing a chain for switching to wax lubricant, Petrol and chain in a long HotDog glass jar and shook around, many repetitions with a small amount of Petrol does a much better job of degreasing the inside of the chains rollers than fewer times with a large amount of gasoline. Once the chain is wholly degreased inside and out and completely dry, Store the used Petrol in another jar and dispose responsibly at a garage. (or strain through a paper coffee filter for re-use, up to a point) Then melt 500 Grams of food-grade paraffin wax in a slow cooker set to low, or a pan suspended in a larger pan filled with water to heat the wax no more than 100 degrees, then mix in 50 grams of PTFE (Teflon) power with the smallest particle size in microns you can find. Then make a wire coathanger into a large flat-ended hook to thread your chain onto, to dip into and swish around in the melted wax for a few minutes, to ensure the chain itself has heated up thoroughly to allow the wax to creep deep inside the chains internal components to do its job of lubricating the chain properly. Also of note, the PTFE powder will settle to the bottom of the wax quite quickly so make sure to mix it up again with a whisk or similar before the moment you dip your chain in, as the first wax to touch your chain is going to be the wax that will be the stuff that ends up inside the chain to do the main lubrication work and if this is the clear PTFE free wax sitting at the top of the pan with the PTFE powder settled at the bottom then the wax in the place where you want the best lubrication will be lacking in PTFE! Once you've whisked any settled PTFE back into the wax, and then dipped your chain for a few minutes, swishing out around generously. Then, raise the chain back out and let the excess wax drip back into the pan. Once the chain has cooled it will be stiff as the solidified wax will not let it move, get a pair of chunky gloves so you don't hurt your fingers as you work each individual link loose so they rotate freely again. Now your chain has the ultimate form of lube on it (and more importantly INSIDE IT), suitable for around 400 km or more of riding. Make sure to also degrease your Front Chainring, rear Sprockets and derailleur sprockets before you refit your chain, otherwise your chain will get contaminated with dirty oil from them and you are back to square one. Chain waxing is better if you wax three or more chains at once in one go as it takes the same effort to wax three chains as it does one. Then cycle through them, always carrying a spare chain with you as you cycle in case, as mid-drives put more strain on your chain and you don't want it to fail and not have a spare with you. Once your chain needs rewaxing, it's a lot nicer than the process with an oiled chain. Just boil a kettle of water, hold your chain on the hangar and pour the boiling water on it to strip away the old wax off the outside of the chain, no need to overdo it as you want to remove only the outside layer of wax that has dirt on it, so you don't contaminate your Wax/PTFE mix when you re-dip it, then hairdryer it till it's bone dry. Then dip and swish it around the melted PTFE and wax mix in your pan/slow cooker for a few minutes, as before. Again, ensure the PTFE is whisked up into the was before the chain goes in. Nice clean process, and a joy to do compared to the dirty job that oiled chain maintenance is.

My BBS02 has turned me into a cycling king! Essential points are: (1) Make sure that your bike is in full working order BEFORE fitting the kit and fit a new chain (2) Ensure that you regularly check the tightness of all your nuts and bolts - after 200 miles my bottom bracket had loosened and also a few spokes. (3) If you're going to do 30mph then fit a larger front brake rotor and hydraulic brakes. (4) 30% battery actually means almost zero - okay on the flat but forget assistance on hills!

Your the man

Hi Jonny love your channel just found you but straight away I new this guy was very knowledgeable and honest about what motor to use and why I currently have a 500W Hub Motor rear bafang on a standard dropout I was wondering how to install a torque sensor bottom bracket as I hate te feeling of got pedalling even in pa1 it ghost pedals so could you tell me the best option. I think all motors should have built-in torque sensor systems pas is old outdated technology

ive beeb trying to get a consult with ya for ever, your you have nothing available or I'm busy, one day Johny, Youre my Ebike DIY Master Yoda...

Regarding the CYC Photon: Do you really mean it that having a torque sensor eliminates the need for a gear and brake sensor? I would assume that if I shift under load (e.g. going up a hill where the pitch suddenly and unpredictably increases), then I would need the torque sensor, yes? This was always the benefit of Shimano Hyperglide - could shift under load.

I HAVE A 5 YEAR OLD CYCLONE, AND IT IS SO QUIET, IS THE MINI JUST AS QUIET?

I have a Canondale Jekyll. It’s got fat tubes and that shock it uses just takes up a lot of room. What do you suggest for that? I used to do a lot of downhill but I’m 54 and my knee is destroyed, I need some help with the hills around here. My days of downhill are over though.

I run a tsdz2 36v motor at +52v - it’s able to do decent wattage for a while - maybe 1k? With custom firmware it’s well configurable - easy to repair, sort of

Is it possible to install the bbs02 without a throttle? I would like to ride in U.S. National Parks and they currently only allow Class 1 E-bikes on their bike trails.

Wondering how safe pedal sensing is on a mtb. If you put torque down to pop a kerb or something how would it behave?

I have 2 bikes that I have converted. One with tsdz2 and one with bbs02. I really like the natural feeling of the torque sensor on the tsdz2, but I wish it had more power. I really like the power of the bbs02 and the cadence sensor on it is just ok. I am excited to try the Photon in a 3rd bike this spring that I just picked up off of Craigslist this past weekend! I hope that it is the best of both worlds and it is also quiet and reliable. The one thing I am dumbfounded by is the chainring option for the Photon; why do they not make an option in between the 38T and 50T !? Keep making these great videos Johnny!

THANK YOU!!!

Is a bbs02 different in UK to the US ? My cadence start is adjustable i have it set to start after 6 magnet pulses so i wont start if you move the pedals when stopped . The speed I pedal has no affect on motor power output or max speed ! Also my motor is set to cut off the instant i stop pedaling . I want full power while clown pedaling (SUPER SLOW KNEES OUT PEDDLING ZERO EFFORT ) one day and minimal assistance on another day , torque sensing cant do that ?

Hello, if the motors have a differense on bbs01 and bbs02... in appearance its is the same... may I put controller bafang 48v 750w in my bbs01??

Photon is wonderfully quiet, smooth and gives linear acceleration, in my experience. Saying that, my daily ride has a bb's...

Nice vid mate, great options explaining. Where would one get anything Bafang in EU? Aliexpress or somewhere else?

I'd like to see some reviews and comparisons of various digital displays and controllers out there. Confusing as to which ones are the best

You forgot Lightning Rod and the HV motors. BTW I love your videos!

I'm wanting to make an ebike for hunting but in the state I live in 750 watts is the maximum allowed on public land. What motor should I go with

I found my bicycle, but it is in a range where it is non-affordable. Benno's 46er ($5000); that is exactly what I need for fitness riding e-touring, and cargo. What is your recommendation for a mid motor to be used for e-touring (lugging a total weight of 330lbs) and fitness riding? (2-n-1 bicycle).

Also high voltage has an upgrade for bbshd using a asi bac855 that allows for a 72v making 4400w plus. Just something to note I guess. Shout out to John at high voltage. 52v can get you 2500w I think.

so what bikes do these motors fit on that can handle the torque and weight? I want to build a bike for hunting and fishing so i'll want to be able to haul a small trailer.

Seems to me its been about a year since i bought the 750 fang mid from your site.. 916 miles latter still happy, my top speed at 25amps.. is 46.6 (Peddling my ass off of full throttle course) At these speeds my chain jumps the bottom derailleur pully (Wheel side).. my fix is to buy a chain tensioner.. the XLC Guide Roller CR A02.. you should add it or something like to your your site :)

Hi Johnny. Thank you for the great content once again. I am thinking about getting a bafang bbs02 and putting it on a siskiu T7 ..I'm a little bit concerned about the ground clearance in the bbs02. do you think it's a good idea to use that motor for technical more aggressive riding? Single tracks, technical trails etc... Thank you!

Do you have a recommended kit for converting a DH bike to a lightweight MotoX bike- no cranks and pedals, just pegs and a throttle ?

Id like to add a mid drive to my juiced scrambler with a 750 w hub motor. The bike I believe is 60 to 70 lbs. Its a 20 inch fat tire bike. Would the BBS02 be sufficient? I just want to add climbing power and maybe increase the speed of the bike to 40 mph.

Thanks @JohnnyNerdOut! Hey, why is there no option on this video to save? I wanted to save your video in a folder of the very most informative ebike videos I've seen.

Can you do a video showing how to add a keyed ignition to the Bafang mid drive motors?

I heard no mention of any UL ratings, like UL 2849 for systems or UL 2271 for Lithium batteries.

Also, what kind of chain and gears you can use with more than 2000w? Single speed? Thanks for the content. I'm a long time bbshd user and I like that they just go on forever.

Are the bafang M615 and BBSHD the exact same motor but just a new name? or is it like that Mysterious m625 with its smile battery but that cannot be found on the bafang website? im getting really confused here...and i thought is was gonna be simple to make my first build...and im sure it is....its just making the right choices that suck!!! i want a bbshd but the closest thing to it on the website is the M615...looks the same...but is it?

I bought the cyclone from ya. And I love it! Going on 3k hard miles 😂 going strong💪💪👊👊 one tough motor.. dependable.. and powerful. Why not on your list?

The tsdz2 is a lovely wee motor, very natural feeling but a little bit underpowered for really big hills, heavy riders or cargo.

Also since I will be dragging feet I want to be able to use throttle only, no pedal Any like to a build?

I reside in Canada, does your 500w Bafang kit come with a battery and charger as well

What's the best way to fastened a CYC Bac controller to a Super 73RX?

Hey man, I love your videos ❤️ Is it possible to convert the Tern Verge S8i carbon belt drive with electric motor from Banfang? Or the term link d7i?

Thanks!

Nice review Johnny. To me, BBSHD is the sweet spot for power and reliability. I can live with cadence sensing. To me, the Photon is already coming in too expensive for what it is. PS. I am a power and speed guy with a bicycle racing background. I choose the BBSHD for its power because I don't want to lose to human power elite cyclists. Btw, they are my friends. I am aging and why I am leaning more toward custom e-bikes. I have buddies who train with a coach, compete in national competitions etc who can hold my wheel on my bbshd bikes at 30 mph in my draft. They fall off my wheel at 35mph but that is what it takes for elite level cyclists. More average cyclists get dropped at 25mph. Also, I want an ebike that is faster than you can buy in a store. My BBSHD bikes...I have a road bike and 29'er with that motor have been rock solid and you have built a ton of them on your channel.

I’m looking for a cheap bike to pair a bbs02 with. My brother said I’d need a multi thousand dollar bike or the frame would be too weak. There’s a ton of specialized rockhoppers and other cheap bikes around my area for under $500 used. There’s a mongoose ruddy comp a mile away even. There has to be a cheap mountain bike capable of the mid drive power right? Even has to be some new ones. Anybody have any suggestions?

What about the lightest ebike mid drive kit? Only 1.7 kg and torque sensing for an affordable price seems almost too good to be true. Would love to see you review it.

I have a 750 Monday motor anza I want to upgrade it it hits 27 but I want 45 mph at least and I’m willing to spend around 1500 the bike was 2000 so I think it’s worth it but it’s a fat tire bike do these mid drives have the power to deleiver 45mph

Great video... thanks! I dis a BBS02 conversion last year. Can I use the battery I currently use with BBS02 to power with the CYC Photon? I understand that I would need to change the battery connector to XT90.

Johnny, I am a bike mechanic and did a Bafang middrive conversion last year. It works great! I want to do some preventative maintenance, luring the gears. I see some videos where they totally disassemble the unit so that the nylon gear can be lubricated. Thoughts? Thanks!

I know Luna is out of stock, but by chance *will you be stocking your store with PEEK or even STEEL gears for the bbshd?* thanks Johnny

Hi Johnny any new rear DD hub for 12mm DROPOUT right now? My frame is DH OLD 135 but It'sfine up to 138,9mm Kind Regards

Truckrun is a good torque sensing motor,, usually for oems, but they do have diy kits. However, not easy to get info and buy.

hi i just got my bafang bbs02b but it does not fit on my 2022 salsa rangefinder my bb is 73mm do you have any idea what one will work?