DIY LIthium battery to replace 12 volt lead acid batteries 

Hi Brian, You must be succesful if you are thanking me!

You helped me figure out what type of waterproof connectors to use and how to get a battery monitoring system up and running. It's definitely one of the best videos out there if you don't want to use a BMS. Looking forward to more of your videos.

I use four active balancers- They move power from the high parallel group to the low parallel group, balancing all the time. You would need four of them. I sell them for $17 each. But your question was about charging- Use any 16 volt power source.. A charger, a power supply, photocells, etc.

ikr

You would need to charge it through a BMS or active balancer.

That would actually be an interesting project. External automotive voltage regulator being basically the first generation "charge controller" and robust. Slamming high current they are capable of...off the top of my head being the biggest concern. Makes me wonder if any buck/boost converters and caps could tame it for charging.

Renogy has a nice 50A DC-DC charger and mppt

Hi Lucious, No, because I am recomending active balancing. Look through the links in the intro.

Sure- those are easier to assemble- you don't need BatteryBlocs! You can solder the tabs together.

Look at the Higher Voltage channel for this exact application.

The AH depends on the cells that you use- see BatteryHookup for cells. I would use an active balancing system on this.

Yes, and I respond to every email. I'll contact you.

For anyone reading, I got a phone cal within minutes of this post. looks like my emails were going to spam. Issues were addressed over the phone with no excuses. Fixes were promised to be shipped. I'll update when received

I got the fixes in as promised. Everything fits and works as designed . Shawn definitely stands behind his product

Sorry Tricia, I am no longer making them.

It's a 4S, right? So the balance charger needs 5 connections. The most negative is the assembly negative terminal, then the side below that, then the bottom, then the opposite side, then the positive terminal make up the 5 balance leads.

No, it would not work. An auto alternator puts out between 13 to 14.5 volts, but a 4S lithium coblat chemistry battery needs about 16 volts to charge. The battery was designed to be used in RV's or boats to replace the lead acid storage batteries.

Thankyou for your reply... Impressive unit none the less...

This battery fits in this box: Could you work with that? www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024E72GA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

18mm diameter =9 mm radius. pi r squared x height = volume of cylinder. 81 x65.0 mm = 251 cu mm volume vs 508 cubic mm volume of 26650 batteries in his build. MORE THAN TWICE the capacity of using 18650's

@Kerry Lynch I looked the 26650 batteries up on Amazon. My heavens! They are very expensive! Average of around $15 bucks each! Gonna have to do some serious math to get the best ROI.

Hi Kurt, No, the cells do not need to be balanced before assembly if they are new. The battery can be balanced with a 4S BMS, a hobby charger, or an active balancer. If charged using a charge controller and a BMS, you can charge with a solar charge controller, a battery charger, an ebike charger, or a power supply. GO to my website, www.batteryblocs.com, I have a free book and my contact email address is there. The questions you raise are specific to your circumstances.

Hi Steve, Yes, I like the simplicity of the build with Headway cells. I wish they were less expensive. Sometimes BatteryHookup has them. Good luck. Shawn

@@shawname2 OK THANKS .WILL CHECK ON THAT

The nominal voltage of any 4s LiFepo4 chemistry battery is about 12.8. The maximum charge voltage should be limited to 14.4 volts. Besides this kit, you need the cells, a battery management system, and a voltage source that will not exceed 14.4 volts.

With this many batterys u might as well disable alternator and charge this at home once a year

I'd recommend you stick with lead acid for cranking ICE engines, that is what they are really good at.

@@shawname2 thank you for your quick response time. 👍🏽

True, you need to have a balancing system, that is a given. I use 4 active balancers on this battery.

@@shawname2 Can I ask you what kind you use? There's been a lot of discussion on how some Chinese BMS don't balance or flat out don't pass enough current because their specs are inflated

@@pleasecho2 I use these- and sell them with BatteryBlocs: www.aliexpress.com/item/1768384410.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dr5JKC0

Don't blame you, it has taken a lot of testing. Remember the steel is zinc plated and zinc conducts as well as nickel. And, the steel is massive. A lot of spot welded batteries are made of nickel plated steel. I did do some very high current tests, they are on my channel. I have looked into using copper, but cost and oxidation were deal breakers.

Each cell is 70 grams x 120 of them = 8,400 grams or 18.5 lbs. A store bought 12v 100 amp lithium battery is around 9.5 kg or 21 lbs. A store bought lithium battery weighs approx one third of a conventional lead acid battery.

It can be charged with the right voltage solar charge controller. Yes, you still need a way to monitor the four parallel groups, like the recommended balancer in the description.

Shawn McCarty What is the right solar charge controller? I have a Solar Epic 40A MPPT

It seems your charger has a user setting and will work: Support 4 charging options: Sealed, Gel, Flooded and User. Still you should study the info here: www.powerstream.com/LLLF.htm Shawn

120 cells x 92 grams per cell = about 11 kg for batteries plus 1 kilo of magnets/strips/bolts/nuts = 12 kilograms (25 lbs)

450$+. 18650 would not get you to the 12.xx volts

@@opticledilusi0n per 12v setup?

@@RudyBerry76 yea looks to be if you follow the links

Go with 3batt-series strings (3*4.2V) and make as many parallels to that as you can.. have in mind that one 3batt string can pull 2-3A max (12.6V times 3A is 36W cca) so if your engine pulls 720 W lets say, you'll need 20 3batt-in-series strings so 60batt total. You'll end up with outstanding capacity but i would go with more strings since 3A load is still quite a lot for a 18650 and it's hard to sustain.. And if they're the cheaper ones, they can heat up alot and burn.. So always do at yr own risk..

Yes, many. www.batteryblocs.com

What browser are you using? I am not seeing any problems on my side..

@@shawname2 Google Chrome.

and safari aren't working.

Hi Bob, You know I drove all the way up to Battery Hookup when they were an alarm company- and bought 50 36 volt packs. But I had lost touch and am pleased to see how far they have come and how well they have adapted to the market. So thanks for the contact. The cells are 3200 mah and there is 30 in parallel for 96 amp hours. Each can dump 12 amps, so that would be 360 cranking amps or 4,300 watts- Enought to start 4 - 6 cylinder car.

@@shawname2 You been doing this for much longer then me, so can you shed a light on something for me plz. I been doing a lot of research and decided that the best lithium cell would be LTO. It works at really low temps, has 20K cycle life. High C rating in and out. But it seems like Chineese cornered the market on LTO cells. Yinlong makes 30/40/55 A/h cells. I am Russian, and according to russian forums, all the LTO cells we can buy from China are refurbershed. Like they took it off thier busses, put a new cover on and sell them as new. The resistance is all messed up. Some don't work at all. Whats going on? Why can't USA make some LTO cells? I know winston makes LTO batteries, but they are very expensive. Can you shed some light on this issue plz. Thank you Shawn

Have you read the wiki article Bob? It has a low energy density with a nominal voltage of just 2.4 volts. So it may not be used as much because of this- especially in transportation. It's main appeal is it's high cycle count. The fact that it can dump a lot of current is not that relevant if it is used in home storage... All the manufacturers of that chemsitry are listed in the wiki article. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery

YEs, there is a similar case for 18650 cells. www.batteryblocs.com

@@shawname2 how much of those cells could go for a 400 ah pack @ 12 volt?

All lithium batteries should be used with a balancing system. I use and prefer active balancing on larger packs like this. My website www.batteryblocs.com has more info under the power wall section.

You'd use active balancers, a BMS or a hobby charger. The voltage would be 12 volts like a lead acid battery.

Thanks for the video brother it worked as described 👍 I got 1000 + 18650s coming and look forward to doing more business. Larry H.

@@DiyAllaroundguy Hey good Larry. I see you ordered three times over the last few months, thank you. I was having a little trouble getting the usual filament colors, but think I have it sorted now. Cheers! Shawn

I see Larry has 18650s. Can either of you tell me what kit to buy to build a direct replacement battery that will fit In a flooded lead acid battery box? With 18650 cells?

@@Justaguy0420 Will this one fit? batteryblocs.com/groceries/64p4s-18650-battery/

Yes. Better if the power supply is a CCCV, not a constant current or voltage. But the BMS will cut off the charger if a cell gets too high.

@@shawname2 can I use a common smps rated 14.6v 3a to charge the same

@@krishnagupta9667 Yes.

@@shawname2 thanks

The BatteryBloc system was created to make our batteries rebuildable. The nylon bolts provide a lot of compressive force and the magnets are about the same size as the button tops on the cells providing a good connection area. So far, I have not heard of any failures due to poor cell/magnet connections. But these is no denying that a machine spot welded battery that is well packaged is durable.

Peter Jackson, I loved your hobbit and LoR movies. Did your preferences for resistance welding influence your choice of how to animate the Ents?

As easy as it is!!!!!!!

Well, if they get hot enough... www.apexmagnets.com/news-how-tos/magnet-experiments-what-happens-when-a-magnet-is-heated/

@@shawname2 this will work when it's new... caig.com/deoxit-gold-g-series/ If using after its oxidized just use (deoxit-d-series) or (deoxit-shield-s-series) I used the D and the G need to get some Shield someday.. I used this on a 1986 CNC and it fixed the problems..

What trouble are you having with the website Ken? The cells are 3200 mah and there is 30 in parallel for 96 amp hours. Each can dump 12 amps, so that would be 360 cranking amps or 4,300 watts- Enough to start 4 - 6 cylinder car.

Sorry Dale, Bluehost switched my server and my website has been down for two days. Believe me, I am working on it!

While lithium-ion batteries handle cold weather better than most battery chemistries, temperatures too high or too low still compromise their ability to store and release energy. ... Put simply, cold weather will decrease the lifespan of your battery because it will require charging more often.

Hi Ken, Sure- Could use 5 amp hour LiFePo4 26650 cells. We would need 80 for 400 amp hours. I make this battery but in a 40P, so two of those in parallel would get you to 300 amp hours. Two more in series would get you up to 24 volts. Email me at shawnwiththewind@gmail.com if interested.

My Klein does not detect any. I invite you to get a few and see for yourself. They are really useful for quickly attaching temporary leads to batteries.

@@shawname2 and they make little DC motors run like a 🦇😈🔥 🤭 DO you get the amps out of this like a lead acid?

@@mr.e695 Yes, they make little DC motors very happy! No, they don't have the cranking amps of a lead acid. They are best used for electric wheelchairs, trolling motors, etc.

Magnetic contact switches are pretty common. Small step to use magnets to create button tabs on cylindrical cells. Neither the polarity or the electromagnetism affects the battery in any noticeable way. I can't tell you why not, or why it would, I don't know.

@@shawname2 good news! in d meantime my mags arrived, ferrite. what a surprise - they are non-conductive :((( didn't occur to me, i thought 'contain iron, will conduct'. so what type are yours?

I would not use a lithium battery under the hood. This battery is intended to replace golf cart and trolling motor batteries- where a space needs to be filled with a longer lasting battery that is the size of a lead acid battery. Lead Acid batteries are great for starting cars!

I think you could add a trailer-style or self-contained RV to the list of vehicles in which these would be useful. The normal Pb 12V deep-cycle battery bank is very cumbersome. Usually they are installed behind an exterior panel in the side of trailer, sometimes you find them under seats as well. When using this lithium pack I'd probably consider using a sine-wave 1800W inverter to supply 110VAC to "standard" lithium battery charger(s) for these battery packs. While charging the lithium packs, the inverter would be powered by the truck's 12V system (or solar system) while driving, then switch to campsite power for charging when parked. I also have a multi-panel high-power solar array on the roof for remote location 12VDC and 110VAC power (via the inverter). The power system I've setup is pretty flexible, and lithium packs would improve things.

Yes, that is exactly the type of application I designed this for- so it would fit well in spaces that used to hold 12 volt lead acid batteries.

@@shawname2 How many of these packs would I need for a Camper Van . I do not understand much about amps but people talk about 300 to 400 amps with equivalent solar panels to charge them If That is correct, then I would need 3 battery packs at about $450 ea. with the corresponding balancing units? Should that be enough to run a 12V fridge, LED lights, couple og roof fans and a laptop? For how many hours?

Use a Lead Acid battery for starting a car. Use lithium for powering trolling motors, electric wheelchairs, --places that need a long lasting battery that will fit in a 12 volt battery space.

Here is a link to the product page with more info: batteryblocs.com/groceries/big-battery-30p4s-26650-12-volts/

I don't sell the batteries Toby, but I did provide links to the batteries and the kit in the description.

Hi Steve, I am not clear about what you are asking.. Can you clarify?

Was thinking the same thing. There will be no balance changing. However the car will never fully fill a 4s either 4.2 * 4 = 16.8. so I don't think over charging is a issue. Balance might go out after a while though.

Kent Hinson 4.2 is the limit of Li-polymer Battery. He uses LiFePO4 which is a max of 3.65

S an P? DO you mean P and N? The positive and negative terminals are on the top like a conventional battery. I recomend active balancers- Four are needed for this battery.

Thanks for getting back to me Shawn meant series and parallel I'm totally new to this and got a bunch of the 123 26650 and your case,s look awesome but I don't see how you got to 12vot . I want to make it for my van for off grid camping . I will keep watching you videos are great thanks again for your help

@@Jokker868 Mark, go to www.batteryblocs.com and download my free ebook on battery building. It will explain series and parallel. I got to 12 volt by using 4 parallel groups.

Thank you very much I will do that

Hi Shawn I I have tried to order your book and the blocks from your site but I live in Canada and it Will not let me change the country do you know another site I can order from? Thanks

batteryblocs.com also shop BatteryHoookup.

Don't use lithium as replacement starter batteries. Stick with Lead Acid. Use lithium for storage, when charged by a solar charge controller or a dedicated charger. The hassle of a BMS and the differences in voltages would cause trouble. This battery was designed as a drop in replacemt for golf cars or trolling motors or storage batteries, not to start cars.

@@shawname2 I know. I read your advice. And I think it's good advice. Except... Their might be a few cases where it will work: With the LiFePO4 batteries, the voltages look like a pretty good match (others aren't), and with the right cells (these, in particular, are higher surge current than I thought LiFePO4 could do), I guess everything but charging from a stock alternator is "no worries". So, if I can figure out a way to be sure the alternator won't ever charge them at too high a current (which will take some investigation, so far, I don't even know where the voltage regulator is- in the alternator, I think), it might work, for _this_ use case. Of course it's not going to be worth the cost (I've already put more time in than a new lead acid battery costs, and they've been lasting me 6 years, easy, now that I know never to run them down to less than 80% charge), and the materials look like 3 or 4 times the cost of a lead acid battery, but, I've always wanted that heavy lead-acid battery out of there, especially in the van, because it's on the driver's side, so, I will keep speculating, and possibly experimenting, for a while. But it might be a problem if I speculate out loud, here? I can stop if it is.

If it's OK, I will speculate that it might be nice to have 10P4S which could stack to either 20P4S or 10P8S (it happens that I might also need 24V LiFePO4 for the office).

@@PhilNelson_internet_fossil Yes, the Li9FePo4 chemistry will get you closer to the lead-acid voltage. If you are an experimenter, a hobbyist, then go for it. If you just want to drive your van, stick with lead acid. My 2 cents worth.

@@PhilNelson_internet_fossil Speculate? You could use 26650 10P Blocs and assemble them any of those ways.

Here is a link to the product page with more info: batteryblocs.com/groceries/big-battery-30p4s-26650-12-volts/

If you used steel bolts, the battery would be shorted. Copper or nickel plates are possible but raise the price significantly, and are non magnetic, so the cool way the battery "snaps" together would be missing. Thanks for the suggestions though. I have been building this design for over 5 years now....

@@shawname2 That's why I said insulate the bolts with the washer. Just suggestions. I do love the design and it looks like it makes things way easier.

@@joblessalex What happens then is the bolts might make contact with the edges of the metal plates as they pass through it.... You are welcome to print out and try some designs!

Hobby charger with balancing?

he lists a balancer haven't seen anyone use that one yet and the instructions on the Ali Express page were not very clear looks like it's for balancing only and not protection for current draw, over/under voltage at least you don't have to weld or solder the batteries

Yes, I hope to do a video talking about why active balancing is superior and how to hook one up.

You really need to google simple questions like that Come on "lifespan LiFePo4 batteries" You could have typed it google search bar in time you spent asking the question.

@@jimthvac100 did i ask you jim i asked the question not on the life spand of the individual cells but the battery as a whole and since he is the the guy that made up this battery configuration I thought had been perfect person to ask so jim mind your own f###ing business.

sure, it's om my website: www.batteryblocs.com

Thanks Anthony- It's supposed to be an assembly video for folks who buy the kit. I agree with you though!

Shawn McCarty please keep your videos at normal speed and informative. If people are professional and expert enough to understand every bit and are just following then they can fast forward all they want with the quick key as I do. For people like me that are learning and like to see everything these videos are a gold mine and keep us interested/ and helps us when we are stuck. I can’t find answers a lot of time but then find them in a random video because they were talking about what they know not worrying about video times.

More info on my website: batteryblocs.com/groceries/big-battery-30p4s-26650-12-volts/

The link on the page that goes to the battery's is no good . Can you go there and click on it and find the link that goes to the battery's that fit the plastic case ? Is this the battery's you are showing ? It looks like they already have a case so its saving you 120.00 and you don't have to have the plastic pieces you ae putting together or are these the wrong battery's ? batteryhookup.com/collections/lifepo4-batteries-1/products/a123-36v-module-w-48-26650-anr26650m1-b?variant=31780910137476

Good find- I love BatteryHookup too! Go for it! Shawn

What did you get?

@@frankz1125 balancer and equalizers. As usual I went nuts and bought too many

Good luck with your work in Africa. Let me know if I can help.

@@drsolar im sure they will be used. Good luck brother.

Sure- Costs are here: batteryblocs.com/groceries/big-battery-30p4s-26650-12-volts/ I use active balancers, 4 needed at about $18 each.

Jeff, I retired and closed the busisness.

He found out trying to sell anything 3.d printed is foolishness i bet each kit took him 20 hrs to make 3d is for old men who have all the time in the world

Yes, you re right that I did not show how to connect a BMS or use an active management system or a Hobby Charger for balancing. And that's why, there are many right ways to do this. The magnets are for ease of assembly, the 2nd/better connection is compression from the nylon through bolts.

Domingo, have you ever seen an instance in which a fused cell has blown it's fuse and saved the rest of the cells? In my experience, cells die a slow and unspectacular death, as the other cells in the parallel group compensate for their loosing capacity. That's why it's important to be able to pull and check them. Thanks for the comment.

Contact me at my web site and I will see what i can do.

96 not 960

Correct, using these cells. Higher capacity cells are available 5,000mah.

The goal was to build a battery that will fit in the space of a lead acid battery but with much more watt hours. It was designed thinking of wheelchair users and trolling motors. I agree, it makes no sense to drop this in your truck.

Shawn McCarty I was not talking about a Truck. I do like your content it is just that the video is more about assembling your kit and less about building a replacement for a lead acid battery. Really like the video and the ease of assembly but it is not very cost effective when you have to replace a 900.00 inverter/charger because the voltage does not match your build. If you had used a cell that would more closely match that of a lead acid battery I would have been interested but even so 120 AH cells are priced cheaper than this set up and are readily available. Where as the cells for this are out of stock at the vender you linked to.

@@roberthall6195 Yes, I understand your concerns. This is built using LiFePo4 chemistry cells- they are the 26650 sized. The fully charged voltage of a 4S Lifepo4 battery is close to a fully charged 12 volt battery- 14.4 volts. A fully charged Lead Acid might read 14.7 volts. It has been pointed out that this battery needs a balancer- I use active balancers. The battery needs 4 and I sell them for $17. each. Yes, I just checked, and they are out of stock at BatteryHookup. Thanks for your comments!

Cris, check out the sides of the battery. The upper-lower connections are bolted together there.

Yes, you are right. If duplicating the voltages of a 12 volt lead acid battery is your goal you need to use LiFePo4 chemistry- Lithium Iron Phosphate. It has a lower nominal voltage than the standard Lithium Cobalt chemistry.