this is a great video on how to use spray foam if you do not want to insulate everything and just spray randomly. It is video's like this that say they are showing people but are showing them incorrectly.
@@JayTwizzlewhere the material bonds to the corners/edges. I can see the steel behind the application still. Watch spray jones if you want a video that shows how to do it right.
I used it once and found that setting those cans in a tote of warm water and weighing them down gives you a way better spray pattern and smoother coverage. They also run consistent right until the end.
Reminds me of all the reasons I stopped working in commercial painting. They started making paints that expanded on the surface after they were spray applied. Helpful tip about using a vaseline type product to put on any skin that is not covered before spraying. I sprayed a lot of epoxy type materials and the overspray would wipe clean with a rag if you used the vaseline around the cuffs of your shirt where the gloves ended and applied heavily on facial skin around eyes especially and anything else exposed. Also the stuff in your beard may work out with baby oil. Mineral oil which is what is used in baby oil is a solvent. Acetone erodes the oils in your skin and will dry your hair and may cause the spray insulation to water down on your hair instead of cleaning it.
If I were doing the spraying, the first area I would want to get would be the area behind the vertical studs. That needs to be covered as ell as the spaces between the studs. Always wear complete body covering, always...A friend did use this insulation and he did put the tanks on a cart. While moving them for the first time he lost one from it falling over. Lucky it didn't go to the floor. Since then he always uses tape to tape them together and braces them onto the cart.
Voids behind the studs are an obvious cold bridge of a sorts and yeah... after you fill the spaces between the studs you can't spray behind the studs anymore.
Probably too late but, you need to try and get the foam between the metal and the studs. If you don't it will cause condensation in the places where you can see the metal.
When we built my shop we applied house wrap to the outside just before we installed the steel siding. The foam then adhered to the wrap and the framing on the inside. If replacing a piece of siding becomes necessary it is much easier.
also, do not put on a layer thicker than 3". It needs to outgas when it cures, and 3" is the limit for any layer. Multiple layers can be applied once each lift / layer cures. 😃
One thing to keep in mind is that a vapor barrier and the center of thermal mass are different. In order to avoid potential condensation inside the envelope, you'll want to do a minimum 2" before any traditional insulation like batts.
I just had a metal building built and the insulation that came with the building has a plastic white backing that is on the inside of the building Will this mold with time?
@@mgoren9087 As a general rule, if the insulation is consistent the entire depth (entire depth is batt insulation, or entire depth is foam) you won't have issues. The problem with using foam and batts together is that people assume that the foam will block moisture at any thickness, which is technically true. But they forget about condensation. So if someone did 1 inch of foam and then did the rest in batts, the temperature will change inside the batt instead of the foam, causing condensation. Systems designed from the beginning that aren't combined with other systems 99% of the time won't have issues.
Even if he did spray 2”, he didn’t fill the gap between the studs and the purlins. That’s the first thing you do. That wall is going to sweat like a beer csn
Great video Nathan. Thanks so much for the demonstration. Come winter time I bet you are going to be snug as a bug in that shop. I will also point out that foam insulation is very effective at sound deadening when you have your larger power equipment running. By the way, we had foam insulation sprayed in our home during construction. The applicators wore the Tyvek suits and applied Vaseline on any exposed skin. When the job was complete they simply wiped the foam off of their skin with a towel. They explained that the foam cures with exposure to moisture and the Vaseline prevents skin moisture from contacting the foam.
I've used this foam on a house in Atlanta and a mountain cabin (at 9k ft.) in SoCal. Made a dramatic difference in both lacations. Good to see you putting it into the shop.
You demonstrated it nicely, the foam insulation is very good, it was cheaper, but the professional work was done far more seriously, there are a number of things to watch out for
I have a lot of experience with spray foam and the ppe required. I wanted to tell you to wear the suit, but I couldn't travel back in time to do so. However, one thing you should check before you go any further, is that respirator you were using. That type usually requires you to be clean shaven to guarantee a proper seal on your face. With a beard, you need the helmet type, which encloses your entire head, and has a seal around your neck. You will also then have a filter which attaches to your back on a belt, with a hose to carry air to your helmet. Hopefully I explained that well enough. You've probably seen the type I'm referring to. That foam and any other brand of the same thing will stick to anything and everything, including eyeballs. As for your clothing, that foam will be there now, for the life of the clothing.
@@GonzoDonzo My dad was working at a factory helping the normal insulation crew put together a prototype polyurethane foam mold for a new water heater unit and something went wrong and one of the seams squirted expanding foam/liquid at him. Luckily it hit him only in the side and top of the head. Us kids had a fun time helping him comb the damn hardened foam out of his hair that night. 5 inches to the side and the stream would have hit him square in the face. Foam like this is nasty and dangerous without proper PPE.
@@wombatillo mine was similar case at a construction site. A glop fell through a seem right onto my head. I did get a free burrito for lunch out of it. Definitely earned it
I bought the same size about 2 yrs ago, it worked out great and you are definitively correct about wearing the suit and the need of a cart. Plus, I'd cover windows, doors or anything you didn't want that stuff on.
Man, that rainbow poplar is A.MAZ.ING!!! I read through some comments below before posting mine, and was surprised that I didn't see a bunch about that wood.
Moisture barrier is what it's called. In a site built wood frame home traditionally you would use the paper clad fiberglass insulation and the wrap over the OSB board outside also helps to retard the migration of moisture. But with closed cell foam it wo;; do the same thing without the extra step. You might want to use the paper sided insulation anyway, just a bit neater to put up. I would recommend a long sleeved shirt, rubber shop gloves and some sort of goggles. Fiberglass gets everywhere!!
Seemed to me that there was a lot of foam dripping from the gun. I spray foamed my rim joists several years ago and didn't have that issue. Made a big difference in my basement. Would definitely recommend it.
Awesome Nathan, hope you had the acetone and got that mess out of the beard, I saw a guy on RU-vid barndo site, built him a little plywood box, put a tiny electric thermo heater in it, and it was on wheels, he said keeping that plywood box toasty inside make this stuff flow even better, he was further up North, and it was cooling off already in his region. You convinced me, I will do my own in my barndo when I am ready
I liked this video because you show what it is like to apply the foam in real conditions. I would like to say I fully agree with you on wearing the suit. In fact, you should avoid skin contact completely during the application of spray foam like this. I also see that you used the full face respirator and it looks like you had the correct organic compound cartridges , but a couple things here that someone may have already mentioned. Unfortunately, you cannot get a good seal on any kind of half or full face mask with facial hair. It just does not seal well enough to prevent infiltration. This is just a fact to the point that clean shaven is the only acceptable way to wear a mask that requires a facial seal. If you expose yourself to organic chemicals on any frequency, you really should invest in a fresh air pump, hose, and air hoods that go over your head and blow out the bottom of the hood. Of course the pump has to be located away from the area to keep from drawing in contaminated air, so lots of hose and a long extension cord are part of that deal. There is enough of a restriction that the hood fills with air, but then blows out of the hood keeping fresh air always available to breath and preventing contamination from infiltrating to it. It's cooler too because the air is blowing into the mask. Using a full face mask is also good in this case because you absolutely do not want to get this stuff in your eyes. One of the components of this stuff is isocyanate which if you get it in your eyes can react with the moisture in your eyes and require removal by an opthalmologist. Isocyanate is also an issue with inhalation for the same reason that it can react with the moisture in your lungs causing very serious lung complications depending on how much you inhale. While it is never the plan, you have to think about your protection if the isocyanate hose were to develop a leak or rupture because of damage during use. Anyone reading this should read the Safety Data Sheets which are available from vbinsulation.com where you can ask them to email copies of those Safety Data Sheets to you before you buy anything. You can also download a lot of good guidance information from this site and they have a specific training module for professional installers for low pressure (less than 250 psi) two part kits like the one you used. You can find these on their site spraypolyurethane.org - use their professional site information since you are the installer. To all you guys out there, don't ignore this stuff, protect yourself and keep yourself healthy for your family, they want you around for a long time.
You won't notice ANY effects breathing this 2pac in for 30 years, then you'll wonder why your hands are shakey and crap won't stay in your ass. Its a nerve agent
I think Nathan that you should starr at the top an eprk down also rotate you gun 90 degrees and you could get stud tu stud coverage. Anyway great job on all thing and loved the wood you run-through the molder
I've seen that exact setup with a side-to-side guide which steadily rolled or slid down vertical wall studs while keeping the spray gun centered with its spray pattern ends striking the stud side surfaces. The resulting spray "pattern" was a uniform textured surface except where the spray passed over any cross-surface irregularities. The person using that setup was a pro. Most people with shop experience could build a similarly configured gun-guidance system with just this description. It would make an instructive video.
I have sprayed My addition (walls and ceiling) and The guy who sold the product told me, " do your self a favor and rub plenty of lotion or vaseline on your hands and arms because you will get some on yourself, and it is a pain trying to get off. Wiping some on your face is a good idea too. I wore the food service hair nets, but I would recommend a ballcap that you don't care if you need to throw it out. I also have a beard and hand lotion in my beard worked out, as well because the over spry did leave a mist in my beard, which washed out easy enough.
I know up here in Illinois. You need a minimum of 2" of spray foam. Otherwise, you will get condensation. And no you can't do one inch and then fiberglass. You will still get condensation.
Set you cans in warm water to get everything out of them. And you can wait three dats and it’ll peel off skin hair. Mineral spirits In a cup can help keep your tip clean and not drippy. Job came out looking good.
Thank you for pointing out the condensation issue with metal siding on pole barns. As an Architect, I have had several people approach me about designing a "barndominium" , or pole barn residence. I have tried to convince them about this condensation issue, but most people do not want to spend the extra cost for closed cell foam insulation to cover every square inch of the metal siding and roofing....and you should use CLOSED CELL FOAM, because it is a vapor barrier and a moisture barrier. Open cell foam is not a vapor and moisture barrier, and it is also less expensive than closed cell foam, and has a lesser R value. These type of buildings were never developed to be climate controlled residences, and if you do not take this precaution you will get condensation and mold. Most people don't want to hear this because it bursts their bubble of somehow finding the magic path to a low cost house. I could talk for about an hour as to why barndominiums don't save you a dime against standard residential construction techniques. I don't think the codes in most locations have caught up to this trend yet.
Would depend on cost comparison of metal siding material and labor of install vs other siding options...the lack of thermal transfer cept at the post of post frame vs16 on center studs is a consideration, agree that the condensation issue is often overlooked..I'd prefer to conventionally frame on 16 centers, simpler and faster for me but with the price of osb this last year, $2 sq ft and if going over 10 ft high walls it's impractical .. I'd go with the post frame ..probably 2 " closed cell to prevent condensation.
@@RICK-uf1jj You still have to frame up stud walls around the perimeter of the inside of the pole barn to run wiring, plumbing, batt insulation and to have something to mount your wall finish on. That is redundant structure. Those walls are capable of bearing the roof load just like in standard framing. The posts and beams are redundant. It is also easier to frame those walls up if the posts and beams aren't in the way...you can frame them on the ground and tilt them up...not so easy once the post and beam structure is there. You can frame the entire thing with standard walls and put metal siding on it if you absolutly want to have a house that looks like an impliment shed.
@@stevevice9863 understand the problem of standing interior walls after trusses are in....unfortunately unlike commercial framers residential framers( have done both) and the 3/4 " subfloor decking are in the weather nearly the entire build due to this...SOLUTION: utilizing lighghtweight non structural METAL STUD INTERIOR CURTAIN WALLS as soon as youve dried it in.....avoiding the heat an cold, unnecessary double top plates,straightening wood studs, extra expense as metal was cheaper than wood these last couple years and all the..strain on backs carrying and standing wood framing..and if its a 2 story...all the work getting studs up there....there is a negligible learning curve but well worth it..an yes you can trim the interior well despite not having wood backing .. Same for the non structural inner wall between post...theyre merely a non structural.curtain wall..no need to waist time an money framing these with 2x4s...and this curtain wall wont thermal bridge as its not in contact with any exterior framing.( metal stud 3 3/4 "...post with purlins nailed to outside...minimum 5 1/2 " thickness...) Another benefit of post frame is being able to avoid a continuous footer...considerable savings where deep footers are required..⁷ Agree with your assessment of the look of a barn that metal siding provides but much less an issue when located on wooded rural property. Code does take into account that the shear strength provided by osb sheathing can be had with metal panels attached to purlins..and if added.. closed cell foam adds shear strength as well.
Nathan! You give the best advice and such on honest take on everything you tackle. Hope your beard and hair escape unscathed. I’ve just pulled the arm hair out, but that’s not where my vanity hides. :)
We have used Tiger Foam kits on lots of buses, with good success. I hadn't hear of Vega Bond before and the spray pattern you showed looked quite good. Unfortunately, Amazon doesn't have any kits and even the Vega Bond site shows they're sold out. Thanks for sharing your experience, though.
Wonder suggestion try useing shrink wrap on googels or eye protection so can just peel off later save from have throw away because over spray time has value at some point time spent exceed cost of ppe
these kits are good for small jobs and/or repairs. they are expensive and sometimes don't work right out of the box. there is way more to know about these than this video provides. if you go ahead with this or any similar product ie..Dow froth-pak.. you must watch some videos, pay attention and follow the instructions to a tee!
Acetone only removes it before it cures. I used to work where stuff like that was made. Interesting place. If it's not too thick or stuck on hard, agent's scrub with a scotch Brite pad takes a lot off. The main advantage to the foam besides the thermal break is closed cell foam is a vapor barrier and seals up all the little air leaks.
I had a friend who sprayed his basement along the top where all the joices and stringers go that is so hard to put in bats of insulation. It went on and looks like it sealed up nicely. That was 6 months ago , you can still smell it. For some reason it is not curing like it should. Manufacturer just said give it time.
When I looked away from this video for a few seconds and only heard the audio, I thought I had found Billy Bob Thornton's RU-vid channel. 🤣 Anyway great info, will be useful in upcoming remodel.
I've considered spray foam insulation for different purposes (i.e. under my house) but it is so messy and you have to finish once you start or it will clog. In my research I found that, for the money, by far the best insulation is reflective bubble insulation. It is not any more expensive than foam insulation (not sprayed) but has a far greater R value. Double reflective bubble insulation has an r value of 21 compared to R10 for 2" foam insulation. Vega Bond has R7 per inch, which means you'd have to get a 3" coat to match the double reflective bubble insulation.
Foil bubble insulation (3/8" thick) is about R1.3 (source: The Journal of Light Construction). Some will tout higher R values based on their use as a radiant barrier. This requires an air gap on both sides of the foil wrap and the foil being between the source of the radiant energy. For example stapled to roof trusses between the roof deck and the ceiling. If there isn't an air gap the the foil is just a conductor. The Federal Trade Commission has sent letters to manufactures of foil-faced bubble insulation warning them that their claims aren't in line with reality. For a crawlspace, where the only radiant energy is coming from the conditioned space, conduction and convection are more the problem. In this case traditional insulation will provide more R value/$. In colder climates foil backed rigid foam board with the foil facing the floor might provide more performance than foam board alone.
Looks like you have a good opportunity for a second part-time job.🙂 Also watch out for SCAMMERS.. I got notified about "Winning a prize ". The phone number that was given was for Northfield Minnesota. Be Careful. 🙂
Interesting. I had my metal shop similar to your sawmill building professionally done it’s a 20 x 20. It was 2 years ago and costed $2200. So the savings is significant
Nice! You explained everything very well. I'm surprised at the ease of installation. And, yes, the first thing i thought was "how's he going to move those tanks around?" Probably because, at 73, i think about those things more. Are you going to use batt or solid insulation on to of the foam?
goof video and i may get it for a kiln. If you watch yourself, you do a lot of wiggling back and forth, and it seems the application would be more uniform thickness if you did a deliberate slower spray the long way instead of jumping around and side to side. Thanks for letting us learn from your experience. Doc.
Looks good Nathan. hope you get it all sealed up real good before winter starts around there. Stay safe and keep up the good work, howdy to Bruno too. Fred.
Can you imagine what you could do with a 18wheel tanker full of this stuff? Well I can. 45000 lbs of it is called mdi 45000lbs is $80k a truck load that is cut with 50% of the other agent (polly) in cali this week they were nearly giving 55 gal drums of the stuff away bc the building market has tanked and it dosen't have a great shelf life
@Tim McWilliams I just move the stuff I don't have the contact on how to get the product in 55gal form. The place I deliver to in Ohio has bought a flat bed load so I've not been back for a month or so so I've got no info on the discount or if it's even avaliable now due to slopy Joe's economy 🙃
That stuff is always fascinating to watch expand. Will those walls now be enclosed with siding of some sort? (I was hoping for a better look at how the respirator fit over the beard!)
It's pretty obvious the mask didn't seal over the beard. People should be very careful with isocyanates. It's a nasty chemical and has both chronic and acute exposure hazards. Please be careful.
hey there - glad to see that the foam is working so well for you. Question: can you re-cycle any of the used material (hoses, guns, containers/tanks, etc.) - what happens after you exhaust the foam?
I was thinking of doing DIY spray foam on my house until I saw this. It appeared to me that the foam wasn’t expanding the depth of the strapping (3/4”) according to the difference in levels between the strapping and the metal sheeting. In the “after shots” it appeared a little deeper but you said that you went back and sprayed a second coat. Obviously all these DIY kits offer a very minimal foam insulation. Doesn’t seem like that was worth $800.
That was an interesting watch. I hope you get the foam off your arms. Just a couple of questions, What happens to the tanks once they are empty? What was the piece you ran through the planer at the start of the video?
🤓 - During the Black Plague in The Middle Ages, they had masks for people with beards, that were cone shaped. They went well with goggles and a hooded cloak
I love practical experience vids... ahh... next time I'll wear the suit... made me laugh... good luck on getting that stuff out of your hair without cutting it out... sounds like a great product.
Nope. You will still have moisture in between the foam and the metal. Maybe not as much. But still some. That moisture will work it’s way down to your bottom plate and rot it out. If it’s a wood outside building then ya whatever. The moisture will just work out through the wood. But steel buildings and plastic type buildings are way different.
That went really well and I think it is going to be pretty nice in your shop. But I would like to know what kind of wood that was at the beginning, it is beautiful ❤️?
Regular foam board and wrap way cheaper, better r value, and you can remove it and put it back if you have to repair panels or boards. I don't get the foam thing..
Hear me out. Close your eyes and listen to his voice. I wasn’t looking when the video first started so when I heard his voice I thought he was Billy Bob Thorton. 😂
I own a spray foam company you, these are for very small areas cost wise you might be saving but you can hire a pro for $2 sqft for open cell that will spray 3.5" and fill the cavity of the wall
WORDS OF CAUTION !!! This spray kit contains materials called Isocyanates. Isocyanates are extremely harmful to the respiratory system. EXTERIOR application of polyurethane foam has a minimum requirement of an OSHA requirement of >>> "Air-purifying respirators (APR) and powered air-purifying respirators (PAPR) are generally appropriate for exterior applications and may be used when spraying polyurethane foam in exterior applications." INTERIOR application of polyurethane foam has a minimum requirement of an OSHA requirement of >>> Supplied air respirators (SAR) are typically used in interior applications.
Your metal is still going to sweat, and now your wood will be trapped in that moisture. I have a similar situation on the roof of my reno. We're taking the metal off, laying plywood decking and felt down, then putting the metal back on. Then I can insulate from inside. I may not know what I'm talking about, but good luck to you.
No concept of uniform coverage when spraying. Some areas are barely covered at all. others look like an outbreak of tumors. Random spray patterns with no plan. Ya' might try long uniform sweeps at a steady pace, and pay attention to orientation of the spray pattern. Could also shoot into the more restricted areas first. Good advice to wear the suit.
I keep watching videos of people doing their own foam and want to think I would save money doing it myself. The average cost I am see is about $1.50 a bd ft and at that cost it doesnt save me hardly anything vs. having the pros do it. I have about 4,000 bd ft of faom to do and my two bids from local businesses are coming in at $6k and $7k about the same as I would pay. I keep hoping I will find a better price
I would like to see a kit that you could use to spray foam around windows and doors before applying drywall and moldings. Those spray foam aerosol cans suck.
