DM Thoughts | Tomb of Horrors | Jorphdan 

This is coming from an old school DM from way back in the early 1980's. You aren't looking at this module the right way. I've run the original "Tomb of Horrors" MANY times. It's a great deal of fun to run for both DM AND players. Here's the catch. This module is NOT balanced. D&D was NOT balanced back in the day. Balance wasn't even a word we uttered. We rolled with the punches and had fun with the imbalance. Now with a crazy module like Tomb of Horrors, it's made to kill characters. And it's usually a meat grinder. This is a tournament module. It was designed for tournaments. Play it like one. It comes with a long list of pre-gen characters in the back. Prepare them before-hand. keep them in a stack. Hand them out before play. When a death happens, hand out the next one. This isn't a dungeon to have your players run with their favorite characters that they're attached to. This is more a "fun-one-off". Have fun with it. Have fun with the goofy situations. Have fun with the deaths. Here's the other thing with this module. This isn't your typical module. HAVE FUN WITH THE DEATHS!!! Don't try to lead the characters into their deaths cackling as you do it. Don't smirk as they die. However, KILL THE BASTARDS. It's not you killing them. It's the damn dungeon and their own stupidity and their own dumb luck. This is the mantra of the game "Paranoia" as well. Players embrace character deaths in that game and often initiate their own deaths to cackles of glee from everyone around the table as their cause chain reaction deaths to occur. So don't be afraid of player killing or players not having fun in this module. This module is different than your typical dungeon module. It's NOT a campaign style module, or something that you fit into a long story, or something you use to advance long running characters or use characters that players are attached to. It's also NOT a module for people who prefer role playing and, once again, getting attached to their characters. This is.. send pre-generated characters in.. some die.. send in more pre-generated characters.. until some players succeed. And it can be a LOT of fun.

Gary's "Intention" was killing the Players of Tenser and Kavaros, the immortal players of his group loaded with powerful items.

Warning! This module is so hard that I’m the first hour of the tomb of horrors I lost my left hand reaching into a giant mouth. And I’m the DM!

I have yet to run the module (but I will be at some point). I think I will run it as written, because my players have handled character death a number of times in campaigns and I know what they don't like about it, and what they do like about it.. all they really want is a memorable demise for their character, in fact, it's almost like a character needs to have a grim end for them to really catapult to legendary status in the annals of our gaming history. That being said, characters are professional risk takers, they know more about deadly danger than any of us, real-world players, do, and so I will occasionally say "Your character gets a roll for Intelligence or Wisdom here, because they may have seen something like this before".

The Yawning Portal ToH is WAY easier than the original ToH.

I was the dm for this module in 1982-1984 on super bowl Sunday. I am enjoying the video. I instinctively saved my group several times specifically a saving throw miss on the lava ramp that would have finished the group. They were clever and we were just a bunch of kids playing a game. Super bowl Sunday today, thus I revisit the tomb. By the way if you have not read ready player one, you must.

The way you described the Tomb, how everyone is scared of it, means that it makes perfect sense for the party to be cautious. It would have been kinda ridiculous for the party to kick in the door like a SWAT team and barrel through

The tomb of horrors is supposed to be hard. Bumping the player level and giving them extra lives goes against the design of the module. If you don't want your players to die then that's fine, but you are un-doing the difficulty level. Also, your players should be aware of the difficulties associated with the module and accept that they probably will die. That's the whole allure of the tomb. But most importantly: if they're having fun then you did good. Don't beat yourself up over it if they enjoyed it lol

The original module was meant to be played in a convention tournament session, which imparted a time constraint. The time constraint would act in opposition to an abundance of caution. With that time pressure, they may've been less cautious and taken more risks.

Yeah, the original module was a hurt locker for a player group, especially if they went in thinking they were going to bulldoze through it. There's a 2nd Edition version, Return to the Tomb of Horrors, where it gets turned into a full blown campaign with the "oh crap" factor turned up to 11.

From what I understand, the intent of the Original Tomb of Horrors was designed to challenge and punish Power gamers who had a shit ton of magic items to support them. I think it was something like AD&D lvl 15-20 characters with a hoard of minions/followers to help. From what I understand, thats why Gary wrote the module the way it is.. Did they rescale the the module for 5e? I wonder if thats part of why they haven't died yet.

Sounds like you did the right thing every step of the way. I love the idea of the soul bracelets. It allows you to make things even harder to challenge them.

Jorphdan, You have now entered into the world that ALL dungeon masters eventually find themselves in. The quandary where "you care for your players" vs "the intent of the module". The trick a lot of us try to put over on ourselves is that there has to be a right answer for the question you have just asked. Sometimes this is not the case, it is different for each DM and similarly the same with each player. So, now that we have this in front of us, you have a few options, none of which are easy. I could see your wheels spinning as you were explaining your problem, trying to find this solution you found yourself in. -One solution is trust in your players, if they die, they die, and hope they are ok with it, resolving your fear for the inevitable. -Two, you can let up on the battle(s) and see how they respond to the win.(Shrugging my shoulders) -Third, show them what a really nasty creature can do to a party and prepare them for other campaigns down the road. This may be a letdown, but I do not have a good answer for you. This may "take the wind our of your sails" a bit but I turn back to what I said earlier, trust in your skill, and trust in your players. Good luck and have fun trying to kill them.

the first tomb of horrors was run at conventions. it was competitive and player had a time limit. this meant players had to take risks. They also went in with multiple characters.

i absolutely love it when my players prepare stuff beforehand and play cautiously, and often drop maybe more hints than i really should because i want my players to feel accomplished when something they prepared fires off and works out well. so i don't really think you messed up at all telling them beforehand that it's a difficult module that would probably result in them dying if they weren't cautious, because from a player's standpoint, having your caution and preparation pay off feels really good. it's not like you gave them the answers to just breeze through it, all you told them was "hey, be careful". Gygax himself said the tomb of horrors is "the thinking player's dungeon". also, as far as the final battle is concerned, if it turns out to be WAY too difficult and they end up not having fun with it, you can always give them some way to escape when things get too hairy. or you can stick something in the environment that will weaken the boss to make them incapacitated so the players can get away.

I probably wouldn't have allowed each of them to gather this soul magical item, probably just one for the group. Maybe you could solve it by the further they go in, acereraks phylactery fights their soul gem? But you have great players. They're cautious, they are not cocky. You're doing a great job

There was an adventure arc in 2nd edition that was called the Secret of the Slavelords . It was based on a series of modules for 1st edition , a series designed for tournament play. In those modules at one point the players are captured , devested of all their magic items , and equipment left with nothing in which to fight their captors. I have fonder memory of my character killing one of his captors with a sling made from his loin cloth than I did with numerous other victories done with his magic sword that was taken away. The point is that there is value and enjoyment in a game where the stakes are high , the consequences less certain and sweet victory is achieved through greater adversity. It just a matter of perspective.

I used to have around 50 of the AD&D modules (S!1 included), but they all wound up being a weak handshake to the actual role playing we did after we got tired of the whole 'module' idea. Now we prefer to act out who are characters are and the multiple GMs in our group who take turns running stuff will tailor the story to fit the characters. Modules don't do that. Modules can't so that, at least not without rewrites. 'nuff said.

I feel like you're very rigjt to have doubts when DMing this module. I did when i first did it. And i feel you were right to preface the difficulty of the module beforehand. When i did it thats what my players appreciated the most. They wanted that challenge and to know it was there. I feel by telling them the risk, i feel thats fair. I do think this could be a nightmare with a DM that doesn't care if they players know and is the type of DM to revel in TPKs TLDR I think youve got the right idea telling your players about the challenge ahead of time. I think a winning combo for a challenging game of D&D is a fair DM with an unfair dungeon.

I went through this for the first time back in 93 or 94, the DM ran it mostly as written in 2e. The exception being that in 1e and 2e the only weapons that affected the demi much were plus 5 and then unless it was a holy sword it only did 1 damage. So he gave us (or my specialty priest of Cyric) a special purpose longsword that could do damage to him. Aside from that, we started with 6 or 7 players at 9th level and ended with 1 player. While 3 of us made it to the final fight. Yeah a lot of us died, and I was the only survivor, but we all loved it. Yeah there were a few resurrections after, and some ppl just made new characters. We had no clue what we were going into at the time. It's still to this day one of our favorite adventures. It created memories. And that's what is really important.

I just watched part 1 and thought I'd throw in my 2 coppers before watching part 2. I DMed a classic AD&D campaign that lasted about 8 years and ending with the grand finale "The Return to the Tomb of Horrors." It was the 2nd edition boxed set of the game that was a campaign in itself and went on for months. My players were all very experienced having played since the early 80s and everyone knew the reputation of the original module, but not this update which I ran around 2008. My group ran with 6 players and myself and there was an even mix of character classes and character races with magic items acquired and created along the course of the years we played. Basically they were going to be using characters that they were really attached to and not something created just for the tomb. First off the 1st edition version of this module was deadly and can easily result in TPKs if players aren't on their toes. The 2nd edition version included the original module along with lots of new material that ends in the Negative Material Plane where Acerack himself hangs out in his Fortress of Conclusion. This one by far could be even deadlier and my players lost some characters in it. I believe since this module has the reputation it does there should be no punches pulled or "get out of death free" magic items handed out. The 5th edition version of the demi-lich is slightly nerfed. The soul drain effect in 1st edition didn't allow for a save unlike the 5th ed. However, if played as I believe, it should be very deadly encounter. The party should take a beating with a few casualties before they take Acerack out. If not then the lich wasn't played as a 20 INT 18 Challenge rating monster.

Hey, Jorphdan, I've not yet run ToH (though I hope to), but I've given it a lot of thought and I have an idea for the ending with Acererak that allows for character death but also gives them a way to "win". Consider giving them a winning condition that doesn't require _killing_ Acererak. Perhaps Acererak is working on what will become part of his contraption for the Atropal in ToA. and by destroying that macguffin they can set back his plans. Perhaps instead of killing him there is a way to banish him from the tomb for some period of time giving relieve to the people in the area, and allowing for the plundering of the tomb. To accomplish this, have some mechanism is the last encounter that can be triggered to banish or teleport him away. If a PC dies during this climactic battle, the necromantic forces at work bring them back as a ghost (use actual ghost stats) for a limited number of rounds. Perhaps in this ghost form they can either help by hindering Acererak while the living work to banish him, or vice versa. When the battle is done, those who died can never be raised because their souls become the first victims of the soul monger. This is the penalty for death. They still get to help "defeat" Acererak, but then they don't get to come back for future adventures with this group.

I loved this video as much as I love your other content! Keep it up! =)

ToH is written as a super-challenge dungeon. What the module doesn't make clear, is that Spells [and advanced planning] WILL by-pass most the the challenges. Consider a wizard who uses several summoning spells to "test" all the bad doors, and traps - both magical and normal. Patient players can spend days, if not WEEKS in the dungeon; casting Augury, detect traps, Find the Path, knock, etc. and various protective spells - and information gathering spells, all are crucial in choosing proper ways / activities. Another "tomb buster", somewhat not anticipated is a potion of gaseous form. Or the cloak of Etherealness [but note, entering the astral plane causes several demons to arrive, soon...].

Your party seems VERY lucky to not have died yet, but maybe not. When Gygax wrote the adventure, he claims it is a thinking man's Dungeon. In other words, if they are cautious they should survive.

Sounds like you guys have both a great DM & a great group of intelligent players. I happily enviable ;)

If your players are still alive this far into the Tomb, then you accurately sold them on the adventure, so they are being cautious. This is good. Very good. Luck is good, too. Your group (so far, haven't watched Part 2 yet) is playing well and having fun, and that is largely due to you. Well done, Jorphdan. - MINOR SPOILER FOR TOMB - FWIW, I ran the Tomb in 3.5e (my own conversion, using the published 3.5 maps, because they look better), and my players were cautious and smart, because I warned them just as you did. Nobody died until the demilich. And the survivors NOPED the hell out of there and never looked back. My players know death is a very real possibility in my games. They know I am on their side, but I am not afraid to let them die. Without that risk, the rewards lack weight. If they die to Acererak, they die in glory. Multitudes have died at his hand. There is no shame in it. Now I'm going to watch Part 2. ;)

I've always thought that ToH lends itself to a death-rebirth cycle. Some ultra-powerful wizard bids the adventurers to plunder the Tomb. He grants them a special power where they are reborn automatically each time they die. The dungeon's can be impossibly hard, but its trials become almost funny as the PCs are constantly destroyed and reborn at the beginning. Maybe add a complication that they each time they die Acererak grows stronger...

Ultimately the question is whether or not the group enjoyed the module

Treat it as a drinking game. Every time a character dies, take a drink.

I played this in the 80's and still have flash backs at times to the 'Tomb'. It is one of the greatest games that TSR put out back then and one of the best times I had with my friends back then. All I'm going to say is river of blood surfing.

I think a module like this is meant for players who want to face a hard challenge with humor and share funny stories of their fratfalls. It's really easy for a module like this to feel like an insult, waste of time, or an unfair destruction of characters they have invested time into. But in a version of DnD where fighting a pile of giant rats might bring a beholder to investigate, players might be used to that kind of thing and accept this challenge. Players used to composed adventure paths in worlds with regular relationships with factions or societies would not see this adventure as a fun challenge. This is vintage 1e where an easy room might give way to a killer room through the next door. The later editions trimmed off the peaks and valleys a bit so that the game is more a simple break from reality instead of something so intensely episodic. Make sure you set your players' expectations before going into this.

I did back in the 90s for AD&D 2ed. One of the players was not happy that his knight did not fare too well. I'd seen him rage quit games on the NES, but never at a game.

the horrible thing about the first and second edition version of TOH is there is really no way of killing the lich at the end unless you get really, really,lucky,killer module indeed!

As long as everyone is having fun. It's all good.

This video makes me want to play ToH as a player - I kinda want that DM vs PC experience in a short adventure

So I have dm d for 15 years. I also have played the OG tomb of horrors and won it. It was amazing because I had to be meticulous and prepared for every room. I also got lucky. However tomb of horrors is a moduel where if you die, you are meant to die. Multiple people with your setting is hilarious and awesome, but lives is a no. That goes against the intent of the moduel. It is kind of like saying, "I want the student to do well on a test, so I am going to give them 3 chances in a row after they are told each time what they did wrong." Kind of messed up, and the lives cause this issue. Prepping your players to be cautious though is good. It is good to tell your players beforehand about a potentially screwed up situation. The end fight... if it is possible for your party to win, keep it. If it is impossible, then add a way to win. Hard option but one way. Check the conditions. Do they need a paladin a d don't have one? Add something. Give a chance, but that is all. Your players seem to be suprisingly competent, So just make sure that there is a small chance.

I ran it once on halloween as a one shot. It was fun and I told them I was curious how far they could get. Let them make 20th level characters.

The module is a test of the resourcefulness of the players. Its like an old tournament dungeon. Its supposed to be difficult. For this module it is the DM vs the players. You have to remember this Adventure was created for Gary Gygax's personal gaming group. This was the group that included personalities like Tenser, Robilar, Bigby, Otto, ect. Those players were extremely powerful and resourceful. You can't pull punches in this module. In actuality if a party is lucky, resourceful and careful the main dungeon shouldn't kill them. The real deadly part of the dungeon is the Demi-Lich at the end. He can devour a PC's soul and there is no way short of a Wish Spell to ressurect them. If the players survive the dungeon crawl and defeat the Demi-Lich they truly have something to brag about. Over the years the module has been given a bad rep and overhyped. We Old School DMs and players like to tell stories. Yes its deadly, but I would say a later edition module A Paladin in Hell is a far more deadly, less forgiving and less fun and rewarding adventure for players.

Trust your players, if your players are experienced enough, at LV 11th a well built ded character has fair tools to fight, they might surprise you... In addition, you can play the lich in a slightly less deadly way during the first couple of rounds (ex: you can use the 1st round of the lich to cast a made-up-spell that negates the soul protecting item you gave them) , so that the party has the time to become aware of what they are fighting (and they also have the time to cast some spells of protection).

It seems like you’ve held their hand a little. This module was originally designed for the players who have been through it all, and to provide them with a challenge. In all other cases I’d say yeah make things fair and balanced; that is fun. However that’s not what this module is about, it should feel oppressive and uphill and unfair battle.

a video I have not noticed before.. its like finding a crisp 20 in an old jacket :)

TPK incoming from BBEG. I think the manual literally says the lich looks at you and kills you, no save lol.

Sounds like you did an great job Dming it, try not to overthink this one Jorphdan, I always believed that Gary designed it to reward cautious and clever players, not all adventures can be resolved by the swinging of a sword or a few well placed fireballs, love the channel and all of your videos, Have a safe and happy new year, looking forward for much more from you in 2018

I'm running Tomb of Horrors this week. I haven't given all this free stuff and free clerical casts: However....One Prince, five squires, and five pirates are with them. They are level 6, not level 11. I expect all the 'hirelings' will meet their end, bringing the party alone by the 11th room. And here we go. I can't run Acerak at level 6, so I'll have to punch that down. My players are noobies...my expectation is a Cleric and Warlock: Celestial will be working overtime keeping them alive or reincarnated.

You're basically a Mommy-Master but that's all right :) I've played ToH with a tough DM and despite of deaths, I freaking enjoyed it a LOT. It's one of my all time favourites. The scare, the caution, the fear is part of the enjoyment. That's precisely why Dark Souls is such a loved and popular videogame despite being extremely tough and ruthless: it just makes you a better player.

I haven't read the 5th edition tomb of horror's, but in the original when you reach Acererach's room, so long as they don't attack the body and just gather the treasure they can win without fighting a lich. Also a big reason nobody died so far is probably because each new version of the tomb of horrors seems to get her feed and becomes easier to survive.

Them knowing they should be cautious is okay, especially because this tomb is riddled with obstacles that can kill them so easily. Giving them that advice though should be the one handicap you give them rather than also allowing them to by those bracelets. If you don't warn them about the difficulty but allow them to buy the bracelets that could work to because it gives them the chance to figure out that this is an immensely difficult adventure on their own without exactly spoon feeding them that information. The way you ran it is okay and it's great that your players had fun so ultimately it's up to you to decide whether you want to make adjustments or run it the same way again, whichever way the players will enjoy more.

It of course depends on the players, but most people I've played with have enjoyed the over the top you're just going to die at the end of ToH (also sort of the end of ToA). Acererak is a powerful dude, he put this tomb here to mess with people, you made it through, now he's going to obliterate you. You the player are not the most powerful people out there, and when you mess with the people who are, you're going to get slapped down. That IS fair. "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life" - Captain Picard

I've run it twice, running it again a third time now as part of the Return To The Tomb of Horrors. It was designed for 1st edition, thus the power creep in subsequent editions has made it less deadly. I absolutely agree in having the players get a feel for the difficulty they are facing. I disagree with giving the players extra lives. If you're giving players crutches, then they are deprived of the full accomplishment of finishing a legendary module THEY wanted to be run through. I use npcs extensively as a mouthpiece to give the party information that lessens deadly surprises. An intelligent weapon with knowledge arcana and knowledge history is a good tool. The end is tough, it's likely one of the party will die if you target the party members appropriately. The longer the end drags out, the more likely this will happen.

I shall call thee Sharkey of Bag End.

This module was created to test advanced players. It is intentionally hard and is more of a tournament module.

My one and only time running ToH I was obliterated in the first hallway. How was my dumb warrior supposed to know the black orb was a sphere of annihilation?

Hey Jorphdan, any thoughts on running the Tomb of Horrors with a higher level party? Is it possible to adapt the traps and puzzles to still be interesting for level 15-17 characters?

Happy New Year.

I grew up in Gary Gugax AD&D. When o am in a dungeon, I check EVERYTHING every 5 feet!

I let intend to let them play two characters each and send 8 into the dungeon as some sort of raid team, no magic items, expecting at least one of their characters to die. That way they can see some of the gruesome deaths and keep going.

Judging from what you're saying. I would let them win after a very hard end boss. I would let them feel like heroes.

As a expert DM i would advice players NOT to take their favourite characters as there is a very high chance of them dying,its a unfair module to run to be honest but very good fun for the DM :}

Aside Yawning Portal ToH being easier than the original, ToH per se was thought as a tournment dungeon where the dm was supposed to try to kill the players. Maybe you did overprepared them. But the important thing is that they had fun.

Really interesting thoughts there. Stuff like that worries me to no end when I GM a campaign or adventure. I think, in the end it always comes down to communication. As you said, you prepared them for this kind of adventure, over-prepared them even. Now I don't know your players, but I assume they did listen to what you were telling them. Meaning, even if the end fight might feel cheap at first, they'll probably quickly see that this was exactly what you were preparing them for.

I have been a DM for a long time (20 + years) and I usually start my players at level one. I am a neutral DM, meaning that I am as realistic as I can get within a fantastic game setting. I run the Forgotten Realms and I still use some of the old 3.5 rules (multiclass penalties for 3 mixes or higher, xp cost for magical item creations, so forth) mixed with the Pathfinder system which i love more than the 5.0 system. I also have house rules that I go by such as: armor points (5hp per AC value, a hit that does damage = 1 point loss in armor no matter what the damage did; acid would do full damage as well as possibly fire as an example rule); Either way I think you are on the right track, the best games are the ones where the players have skin in the game and might have real chance of their characters dying. Of course I usually have them warned, like: "Those are the troll hills, there be trolls spotted there at night or day many do not trod there unless you know the path." They might be first level characters but if they go there I will roll randomly for trolls as encounters. If there is an encounter with a troll or a group of trolls the party members need to run. If they don't, well, they get what's coming to their stupid characters for going there in the first place and being so inexperienced. Maybe they should have hired that ranger in the tavern who would have lead them safely through those mountains. Maybe the ranger him or herself would tell them that they are crazy to even try. This will enforce the idea that not everyone is an adventurer. The lower the level they start at and the longer they play the more they take their characters life seriously (they invested so much in them already) and as long as you are neutral the more excitement you bring because you are true to the game and they know anything can happen (like watching Game of Thrones,Walking Dead). They will ready themselves more and really care more. Also from your descriptions, I would keep my cards closer to my hand and don't outright tell them things. Sometimes use other adventuring corpses as an example to tell the story as well as providing the story plot if they can figure it out. As far as magical items is concerned, I personally don't sell them like candy. Magical items are actually uncommon to rare even in high fantasy. They are not extremely rare but people who sell them in bazaars are usually selling fake or superstitious wares that don't really work. Maybe one might have an actual magical potion. Remember that mages put time, money, rare components, external and internal energy into each item they craft. Also they must have a certain level of experience to be able to raise that much energy to give into the item itself (at least that's how I explain it). In the old 2nd edition games monster manual mages were a rare category class. So magical items could be found in specialized shops under protected glass somewhere in the back. That wand would sell for thousands of silver and even the shop owner might not know how to use it exactly. Maybe it's cursed and not for sale just for show. Usually only those who have a lot of coin and are eccentric look for such items (eccentric nobles or other weird and mysterious mages, other people would be too scared to even try). Even a first level wand of magic missiles runs almost 700 or more in silver. That's more than a life's wage for a commoner and several years for a soldier. When I describe magic in this way, it makes player mages feel special, which they are. If done wrong, magic items will become common, unspectacular and a crutch that can lead to number crunching math mechanics turning the game into a video game mod instead a story and kills immersion. "My character has a +2 longsword of ass kicking which gives him a +5 to attack when hitting a target with the flat of the blade towards their backside" I mean it gets ridiculous. But I follow the rules and role for random treasure and keep things balanced. But sometimes there will always be the anomaly. That invisible thing they keep nudging on the floor that smells but they can't see. Well that was a dead adventurer wearing a ring of invisibility (example). Have fun.

you can play the game however you want... i though have played that module several times, and each time i play it as a death trap. i've never had a group complete it. survive yes, complete, never.

You can definitely tell you're a new school DM. Also the 5E conversion of ToH is watered down from the original as far lethality. Also....you don't always win in life....D&D is the same way, unbalanced encounters are essential. It's not always about hacking and slashing your way to victory.

Tomb of Horrors! I played that module back in... 1985? The AD&D version. Wow, that was a tough one. I'll comment more on your part 2...

ToH rules. There has to be a few insane, extreme examples of any art form. This is brutal death metal. It's supposed to sound like that, it's doing its job and achieving its objectives, it's not for everyone, other things are not supposed to be like it, and it's not supposed to be like other things.

Fun is the point of role-playing if winning is how your players have fun then the question is what is winning? Do they merely want a victory or do they they want loot? But maybe it's the story's of highjinx and not "winning" at all. Knowing your players is important

For players that like to think: Tomb of Horrors is the hard challenge. For players that like to just roll dice, that award goes to Doomvault. Fuck Doomvault.

Thank you for this frankness. All these fears and weird balancing issue is the reason I've been cautious of it. :S Take it easy, fellow. This level of unknown is so ripe for unforeseen awesome. Hope.

I'm about to run it, and I see that a lot of the 1e traps are different from the 5e traps. 5th edition isn't nearly as deadly, and first edition often doesn't give saving throws for some of the traps. would recommend to running 5e to keep the original next to you, so if someone does fall into a trap look at what the original said. example (spoiler) for the first spiked pit trap, in the first edition you would take damage and make a save against poison. If you failed your dead, that's it. 5e, you just take damage equal to about half your health on average. I would give the spike damage, do the save vs poison 5e DC fail=death. I think it's important to keep the spirit of the original game in mind when running this.

Having played this in 2nd and every other edition, I can safely say that it is hard if you are not experienced and careful. If you have played several Ravenloft campaigns then you are prepared for such kinds of adventures

Hey dude all I got to say is go with it. It is a difficult fight I'm not gonna lie. I was in a party that just beat it (it was also a party of 5) But dude as long as your party has fun and it's a challenge. You did your job. I really don't care much for the grind house campaigns and when I dm I try to give my party a challenge and make it a difficult situation, but I always make it to where they can over come it. It's just my dming style but I like to tell a story and to me having a story where the hero's face death multiple times but find a way thru or find a way to bring there friends back sounds a lot more satisfying than every road side encounter being something they barely scrapped by and the party is full of people who didn't even start out with the group. As far as tomb goes it's meant to be difficult yeah but they give you the books as a guide to the campaign but you don't have to follow along exactly you can make it your own story still. Advice the guy who taught me how to dm gave me along time ago sticks out to me right now and that's "If you aren't having fun as a dm, then there is no point in running the game. So run your game the way you and your party both enjoy."

Intro @0:42 vs voice sound levels are a bit off(having to turn down my sound volume just for the intro)

The Tomb of Horrors Draw sword and wand and follow the guide, Bring courage if the youth be strong in bloom; The skull grins upon the mountain side, Acererak is in his tomb. Pull down the walls, bring sword and light That there be no foot silent in the room Nor mouth from screaming , nor from blood unspent; Acererak is in his tomb. In vain, in vain; the grinning skull still cries The everlasting taper lights the gloom; All wisdom shut into his jeweled eyes Acererak sleeps in his tomb. -James Gerald Koch -

So I don't know the module as I haven't look through it or played in it yet but I did watch the force Grey season 2 that Matthew Mercer Rin for all the voice actor friends. It seemed to me that he gave them and Escape and that made it okay. There was a portal in the room where they fight the Lich that allowed them to leave if they can make it to it. So that became part of the fight is how do we get everyone out. Not sure if that is in there or if that's something they came up with

Can you give details of your group? How many peeps and what classes / races?

I thought by this time, DMs and PCs alike would know what the Tomb contain and what it’s about given its reputation. Running this module as written will require a disclaimer beforehand and as a one off with disposable one shot characters.

I mean.... The Tomb was meant for the DM to have fun, not the players. The entire dungeon was made to take down Gygax's arrogant players a notch and show them that even the mightiest warrior can be slain like a dog and the strongest wizard and be slaughtered like a mere mortal.

we just started it, and i think im being a bit heavy handed with telling them to make perception checks in places where theyd normally not ask. i started my players at 12 because theres only 3 and they have no healer

I have oversold a the death rate. It is part learning the craft of DMing. I find getting the pulse of the players can be more relevant. Than asking people here on your channel. Just my opinion.

1e is much more difficult and deadly compare to 5e. In 5e it is too easy to heal all the time, really don’t die but mostly leaves you naked and penniless (which can be funny at times). PCs really have to try really really hard to die in 5e, to make it work, spell restrictions could be an option, if the pc use an spell slot to cast a spell they can no longer use it until a long rest.

i think the original intention of the module was to fuck with and kill as many players as you could because gary gygax made it for a small wargame convention where players would come with 20-30 characters because of how brutal the dm's had to make their small adventures and to fuck with the players that could slap through dungeons and not care about the dungeon itself

*on the next DM thoughts*: "So my players crushed the lich in 5 turns. I'm feel I my have aided my players too much and the fight may have been anti-climactic, but my players had an awesome time steamrolling something I told them was really hard."

You need to know your players. If your players like to explore, then it's fine for them to survive. If they want a challenge because the players are very achievement oriented, there should be guides for how hard things will be for your players at each level. The difficulty should be JUST above their typical skill level so that they have to get in the flow of things to succeed. Taking damage and dying will give the player feedback for their next try.

How come when I wear a long sleeve over a short sleeve, it looks like a moo moo with weird shirt clinging stuff going on? My D&D character needs to know.

I know you’re done and all, but the thing about DMing is that you are in control. I know you know this, but if you feel an encounter isn’t going the way you would like it to, change it. Fudge a dice roll, introduce a new complication for either your players or their enemy, etc. You can tweak this stuff ahead of time too, obviously. If the lich is hitting your party too hard and they are groaning and moaning just don’t hit them as hard. The trap they triggered? It malfunctioned and just snapped apart or isn’t operating correctly, no harm done. With the freedom a DM has its difficult to blame the module. However, don’t underestimate your players either. I can’t tell you how many times I thought “there’s no way they are going to be able to clear this” and they proceed to steam roll the encounter and are left wondering what the fuss was about. Bottom line, do what you can, even on the fly, and things will be fine.

Change up the traps little leave it where they disable all the traps the tomb collapses or a secondary trap when they deactivate all the traps you can't let them run through the full tomb without at least one of them dying

Yup, you 'messed up'. Bracelet of 'no-death' is good idea tho

So no ones armor melted ?

Fair and balanced unfortunately have no place in ToH, it's legit to say; oh yeah we were ultra cautious and slinked through the dungeon almost carefree, only to get TPKed by the lich because we weren't high enough lvl!

What happened did they die?

But you're not really supposed to ever fight a server rack you're supposed to avoid him grab all the treasure and just leave

Absurdly difficult fights are the best last week I had one of the most fun fights in my life where I 1v1 an owl bear and won as a level 3 barbarian/rouge

"my wife didn't want to play... so we replaced her."

IDK, that just sounds like you have really good players :)

Just a suggestion: when you put the text in the bottom right it can be covered by the time stamp. Maybe try the top left or bottom left

Tomb of horrors is a thinking mans dungeon. Most of the instant kills in ToH can be avoided by thinking before you act and being careful about how you proceed. And Rpgs aren’t about being fair and balanced. This mentality is brought on by a society where everyone gets a trophy. Old school gaming was anything but fair and balanced and the hobby thrived even through the satanic panic.

They're fighting Acererak himself, I don't think that expecting to lose against this legendary demi-lich is unreasonable. I think it's far more unreasonable to go into a module such as this and expect to win the final battle. I can understand that losing at the end can be somewhat unsatisfactory but I honestly don't think that it's a bad conclusion to the module. And on top of that I think that, even though your PCs haven't died in this hard module, it's not like you're spoiling them and making it particularly easy for them. They were warned that it's a very difficult module and they're dealing well with it so I think that they're not going to be particularly bitter or salty about losing to Acererak.

No that means you have good players.

You need to completely split the group up for 1 and to you need to incapacitate any Rogues or bards and make spellcasters burn through their spells per day you should be able to accomplish this if you split them up use a trap or something that divides the group some way of making them go off on their own