I agree with this concept whole heartedly. Currently I bought a 1993 Mitsubishi Delica L300 to convert into an overland camper. I got a high trim model with the rear LSD. But, it doesnt compete with the L400. The L400 practially has all wheel drive, that works on pavement, with a viscous center diff, and you can get diff lockers for it. Sometimes I lament not getting the more capable L400, but you know what, I cant wait to start learning in the L300. There's something to be said for learning a skill, and it would probably be quite boring to drive if the tool just did all the work for you. I unfortunately got an automatic, but wanted a manual for that reason, so I could practice manual driving. This is an issue among all skills. While I'm new to offroading, I am pretty adept at photography. The best advice my photog friend gave me was, immediately take my new camera off of Auto, set it to manual, and never touch Auto mode until I've learned basic skills like manual exposure settings... Its now been 4 years, and I still only use manual settings. I also shoot in raw file format, edit each photo, and use manual focus almost exclusively. Now that I have this skill, I get frustrated with the machinery poorly approximating what I want from it. Meanwhile, there are fauxtographers in my area who charge money for sessions, then ask dumb questions in facebook groups about "why is this photo so blown out, why is this customers photo blurry", etc, because they spent the last year shooting with auto exposure, auto focus, no editing, straight to jpeg, and dont even understant what their camera is doing. To learn the skill fully, that means accepting a handicap, and going without some of the tools available to you. The 2 sides of the coin exist there too though. I learned the hard way that good autofocus and investing in a fast zoom instead of swapping primes constantly is paramount to shooting events and catching moments when I tried volunteering for work events. Now I dont even like shooting for events, even for free, because it feels unethical, my gear simply isnt set up right for fast autofocus on fast zooms (my best zoom lens is effectively manual focus only). I turned one guy down who wanted me to shoot his wedding. I told him to hire a professional wedding photographer. And thats before getting to things like NTSB reports highlighting how automation has sometimes rendered pilots less skillful, and how that played a role in some air crashes, despite the overall lower crash rates thanks to automation.
Andrew, we will all agree that you are a very skilled driver. Yet, we can see in this video that you are damaging the track. You could have made good use of a diff lock for sure. I remain certain that part of the skill is to know when to engage diff lock. In regards to traction control, this piece of equipment will do more damage than diff locks in terms of loss of driver skills. If we keep going this way, we will only be passengers in our cars. I believe diff locks are excellent tools used by experienced overlanders. They should only be used in the right circumstances at the right time. We can agree on that. Traction control, on the contrary, contributes to loss of some fundamental offroad driving skills. You should be hitting hard on traction controls rather than diff locks on my opinion.
As a new off-roader who owns a Rubicon, I've lately found my self not using my lockers because I want to see what happens if I don't use them. I really want to have a better understanding about when I actually need them and when I don't. It's been a cool experience ! Love your videos Andrew.
Honestly, it's the same argument as modern safety technology, blind spot warnings, lane guidance, stability control, etc. If you learn to drive will all of these electronic aids, you will not have the same level of vehicle control or situational awareness as someone that learned without them. Sure it's safer for an experienced driver, but it creates less experienced drivers in the process.
@@Robert-cu9bm I'm not denying that, my point is that if you've never driven without it, you'll never fully appreciate what it is doing for you, and it's harder to teach someone to drive to the conditions when the car is saving them from every mistake. In that sense, just like 4wding, it really comes down to a need for quality training.
I’ve worked as an off road driving instructor since the early’90 . My early years were spend in Land Rover series vehicles, they are the have nots of the 4x4 world . They don’t have a permanent 4x4 system, it’s part time. They don’t have any differential locks . They don’t have power steering. They don’t have ABS , they don’t even have disc brakes. No traction control or stability programs. The suspension is leaf springs front and rear, but to there advantage they don’t have anti roll bars. Because I’ve learned and honed my skills in such basic vehicles I can really appreciate this video and because I have dealt with so many novice drivers over the years that completely over estimate their skill level I feel that there should be a follow up to this video. The follow up should be about off road training and the benefits of spending money on the drivers skill and not spending it on shine new accessories that also require skill to use probably. Omg now I’m ranting🤦🏻. I think I’ll end it there for now. Happy off roading
Diff Lockers for the front and rear were offered in the 80 Series Land Cruisers as well therefore 105 were not the first ones to offer this feature in the Toyota line :)
My Australian delivered 1990 80 series Sahara came twin locked from the factory. They are still the same diff center as the current 79 lockers just different ratios.
I agree that one needs to start learning somewhere, but you employ different techniques when using different technology. You will not get the most out of your traction control if you drive it like a vehicle with open diffs, same for lockers.
I grew up off road driving in a 2wd dodge, almost the same as in my pic, and a 78 dodge van, both 1 wheel wonders off road. Spent many an hour ratchet strapping myself out of holes. Then I bought an 81 w150 4x4 with open diffs, and the difference is night and day. When that got stuck, the mess was real. Now, I have a 13 Jeep wrangler Rubicon unlimited, locking diffs and winch. The only times I get stuck in that jeep is in winter, high centering in snow. Otherwise, I drive in accordance to the conditions I'm in. The point is I'm not in the mood to USE that winch. I will go from 2 hi to 4 hi to 4 low to 4 lock, all as needed. I pay attention to my track, my speed, all of it. I also know I need to drive that jeep to work tomorrow, and as a red seal auto tech by trade, I am intimately familiar with the strengths, weaknesses and vulnerabilities of my ride. I'm well aware of the risks of prolonged locker use when conditions do not demand it. I also see, as you rightly mentioned, the damages caused by unskilled, or ill equipped, vehicles to the trail, making life worse for all. In the end, I encourage more use of the tools, not less. Specifically, the right tool for the task at hand. If that means lock em up, do so. If that means witching through to avoid trenching to stuck oblivion and ruining the road, do so. In my experience in North America, people tend to resist utilizing all thier tools at hand, either from bravado or laziness, not realizing that locking up, or just engaging the 4wd would save much trouble.
Knowing when to engage diff locks is part of the driver skills. Furthermore, we all want to tread lightly in order to keep the tracks open. Spinning the wheels is not going to do any good to us nor the tracks.
I was "Treading Lightly" in high-clearance, low-range four-wheel drive vehicles before doing so was "a thing" that got promoted on bumper-stickers and at a point in history when 10-15 Gates Commandos where considered massive off-road rubber and the Dick Cepek catalog had a lot of camping gear in it but not so much in the way of aftermarket vehicle parts. What I see on the trails in the here and now are people that willfully take the most difficult lines on a track because their main point for being on the track in the first place is one of "testing the limits of man and machine." Off-roading has devolved into a low-speed drag race; a cross between a manhood-measuring contest and aftermarket equipment arms race. You can see this, too, right here on RU-vid.
The whole reason I wanted the TRD Off Road trim when I got my 4Runner is because of the locking rear diff. The other off road gadgets are cool too but I wanted that diff lock. I will definitely take what you said to heart since I am new to this.
My old 2nd gen wasn't locked but it still got to just as many places as people with twin locks, I remember pulling a twin locked nissan patrol out purely because he had lockers and thought he would be able to make it
@@chubbs2484 That's a decent point, there's a certain value of learning to drive in something that when it does all go wrong you're nice and easy to recover.
@@hannahranga exactly mate, I think I only ever got stuck in that car twice, once was when I first got it and stupidly didn't check if it had front cvs (it didnt) and another time was when I knew i was getting stuck but just sent it anyway. Probably doesn't help that I learnt to 4wd in a bog stock 1.8l rn85 2wd hilux😂
This is the best 4x4 advice I’ve heard. I had 10 years driving a BJ40, 61VX, and LJ77 all without lockers. Now I understand why and when to use lockers. You MUST learn how to drive a 4x4 without lockers before you can actually drive a 4x4.
Like most things in life. If you learn to operate the basic version of a "device" you will be much more proficient once you upgrade to the new or advanced version of that "device". Takes me back to a memory 20 years ago when I was riding a 1980s 2 stroke trail bike, with a couple of blokes who had the latest high compression 4 strokes. Other than the fast trails, I kept up with them all day. At one point, one of the blokes offered to swap bikes for a while so I jumped on the opportunity. From then on, I didn't see that guy (the one on my bike) again until the other rider and me would stop to let him catch up. The guy who had swapped bikes with me had only ever owned that new bike (new technology) so he was missing many skills.
Hello Andrew, best regards from Aachen, Germany! I agree with all of your arguments, especially this "SKILL" thing. But to 2:34 : In Germany there was another vehicle with differential locks, which was produced and sold one year before the Mercedes off-road vehicle, called "Wolf", was launched. The VW model "Type 183" called "Iltis" supplied to the German Armed Forces from 1978 had a rear differential lock, but no front differential lock, all other models (civilian version) could be supplied with such a lock. I am currently driving such a civilian model. The vehicles have rear-wheel drive, the front-wheel drive can be activated. The differential lock at the rear and (if available) the front can be switched on manually, whereby the front axle can only be locked when the all-wheel drive is switched on. The four-wheel drive and the differential locks can be engaged at any speed. The front-wheel drive is integrated in the manual transmission. This has four synchronized forward gears as well as a reverse and an off-road forward gear, which are not synchronized. The briefly geared off-road gear can only be engaged when the front axle drive (all-wheel drive) is engaged. There is no central differential lock, as the front drive train is directly and permanently connected to the rear drive train. Last but not least: The VW type 183 Iltis was the winner of the Paris-Dakar (Oasis) rally in 1980.
Superb points! As just a young guy, currently driving an NL ‘98 td Pajero, the skills it has taught me are invaluable. With precise throttle control and wheel placement it’s driven through places with less wheel slip than locked 60s and 70s series cruisers. Of course I want lockers, but at the end of the day a little more winching than them never hurt anything but my ego - always good to cut it down to size! Get out there, learn your vehicle, and focus on precision rather than impressing your mates and you’ll find there’s very few places you can’t go (just you’ll have to pack the track a bit more)!
I used to have a 4runner, ifs and unlocked with a very weak to non existent rear lsd, I learnt a lot about track building, angles and wheel placement, to this day I still practice these skills as a matter of course.
After years of driving 4-wheel drives I’ve come to appreciate the new electronic aids. That being said I don’t own a single vehicle made after 2003, because I prefer the older mechanical (manual) means of traveling back country trails and old roads and relying on my skill as apposed to the wizardry of modern 4x4’s. All too often I witness newer vehicles get themselves in trouble because they don’t have the skills to navigate obstacles, because of the driving aids!
Agree with you. I had both, so had the chance to learn mechanical and manual gearbox driving. Now I own a Range Rover which is fully electronic, and to be honest, I appreciate it as well for the driving ease and comfort.. And I well feel the work of my car. I just hope my Range will remain reliable as it has been during the first 60k km including some good amount of off-rood.
Well said Andrew! Don't worry about ranting! Skill has gotten me out of trouble and much further than equipment. Thank you for bringing trail ethics into the discussion!
@Caboose Wa - YEP - opposite ends of scenario spectrum. - Locker prevents high speed lifted wheel spin, then hard slamming down (shockloading blowing CV) while at same time forces the high traction tyre pair to scrub on hard surfaces (high torque blowing CV) - fighting it out for a weak link, who wins Locker or CV??
@@joels2517 Yes (I was just posing it as if there were a real competition - keeping the debate live )- solid steel Dogs vs Fragile Ball Carriers. SO If Driving Twin Locked - what spare to carry?? - full front Half Shaft assembly. and a balljoint... (the list of course could be as long as ... "Bring a towtruck" )
I agree, a front locker definitely can benefit not breaking front c.v's taking slow and easy with both wheels turning vs someone that is gunning it open diff up hill with wheel spin... just depends how u drive
Since I am driving in my 130 Defenden, I am using just the standard center- differential and over the years it was always ok. But this winter, when I sliped into a ditch on the left side of the car, it was so much mud in that ditch, that the two wheels had no grip what so ever. And at the same time the two wheels on the right hand side where lifted up so much that they had not enough grip on the icy road anymore. That was the first time I whished I had lookers at the rear axle. Luckily my winch and a nearby tree where the final solution.
🙋♂️ A long time off-roader here and never had a locker... also,, I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this but until recently I have NEVER Aired down my tyre pressures🤦♂️. This was an absolute revelation. Not only from a comfort standpoint but a tractable standpoint as well. My current rig has open diff's of course and the adjustment of the tyre pressure wonderful. Done ranting 🤣👍. Brilliant Video Andrew, Thanks for sharing. G. 🍻
11:14 well said, finding that sweet spot, managing articulation, steering angle and throttle all at the same time and making it through is a great feeling
Completely agree! I also feel that automatics are a handicap as well. Takes skill to maneuver a manual, let alone with unlocked diffs. As long as I won't damage the trail, I will see how far I can go in 2WH open diff, and progressively add traction aids as needed to maintain trail integrity.
I have taken 2 off road driving courses in Australia and 1 in Europe, yet I ALWAYS love any advice you have to give! Lol... I am a humble person, as is my husband.. We are always open to advice from other 4x4 drivers, to perfect our skills... We know other drivers that act like they know everything so always do the most damage to their vehicles... I remember my husband was spotting on a dangerous turn, and yelled "No no no STOP!! Youre gonna roll it!.. You need to winch", and the know it all driver yelled "F-OFF! I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING.. I been wheeling this track for 7 years!" and proceeded up, then wheel lifted at the top, breaking at a terrible time, then when the from wheel went back down, it was hanging over the sharp angle at the top, and the truck rolled over and off the track, dropping about 2 meters down, the slamming down HARD, destroying his tent, the new truck bed and canopy, his windows etc etc.... After all was said and done, the guy climbed out yelling at and blaming my husband and event coordinator.. He even tried to sue the organizers, but we had hs arrogance on video lol... Nobody knows everything, and there is always someone that you can learn from.. Humble yourself and listen!
Always such great information and video. My adventure vehicle is a 2008 Ford Ranger Sport 2WD. I carry Mountain bikes, Kayaks, or Fatbike depending on where I'm going. For decades on the ranch all we had was 2WD halftons. Almost never got stuck because you had to have wisdom and skill. Once we got 4WDs we started getting stuck.
Great video. I run LSD front and rear in my overland rig and just welded my front and rear on my crawler! Learned that rock crawling is much easier on both rig and trail with lockers. Stay safe and happy trails!
Thank you Andrew St. Pierre. I drive a 1998 Toyota 4runner with a rear locking differential. I only use it as a very last resort but most of the people I drive with don't. I can tell because when I follow someone I'm taking an entirely different line from them because they are usually using the technology to drive. 100% agree with you on this one.
Have driven my jk for the last 5 years without lockers and have just gone to install now. I have now the experience and the tools. I love my truck and know exactly what it is capable of and I’m excited to learn what it will be capable of next. Great video Andrew, the timing with my recent purchase resounds with me and I agree with both needing to develop the skills and tread lightly. It’s in developing the skills you get good at treading lightly over difficult terrain while looking after the vehicle.
In the spirit of this discussion I would say that driving a more stock versus a more heavily built/capable vehicle helps teach driver skill too. I have found I get the same sense of fun and challenge on easier obstacles in a stock rig as I do tacking more complicated challenges in something more capable. You can also learn in a less threatening environment, say like an easier trail without the fear of vehicle and personal injury pushing the limits on a harder trail in an Uber capable vehicle.
In 1973 Jeep brought it out first manual lockers... it was called Quadra Trac. It was a turn button switch in the glove box that you turned on when you got bogged.
@@Revnge7Fold Classic example being the new Jimny with its traction control and a high spinning wheel suddenly gaining traction and the potential for snapping a half shaft as opposed to the same vehicle with a diff lock and rotating at the same speed as the opposite wheel.
Learn to drive without diff locks. Then use them when needed. If your locker malfunctions, you still need to drive the vehicle and you will only have your skills to rely on. Diff locks are a tool and need to be used appropriately. There is a time and place for them. Unfortunately most people don't know this. They can cause more problems and damage when used incorrectly. I have seen many instances when someone has a had a diff lock engaged and couldn't get through an obstacle until the diff lock was disengaged. For those who argue that they must be used because you carve up trails when you drive without diff locks, this is rubbish. You can cause just as much carnage with a diff lock as without. Appropriate driving technique and skill is a far better tool for avoiding trail damage. To this end I have seen unlocked vehicles easily out-drive double diff-locked machines. It all comes down to the driver.
I don't think I've ever seen someone get stuck because they've had too much traction. I have absolutely seen them get stuck because of too little and then they take multiple runs at said obstacle and cause more damage by digging ruts or bashing off pieces of rocks, making the obstacle even more difficult. Or my favorite, breaking their vehicle on the trail, dumping fluids all over the place. Use diff locks if you have them.
@@DriveCarToBar The issue isn't too much traction. Obviously you will not get stuck if there is too much traction but you shouldn't be using diff locks if there is too much traction as you will end up damaging your driveline. What you're arguing is diff locks means you have traction but this is not true. Diff locks do not equal traction. They are still only traction aids. You can still get stuck and spin wheels with diff locks engaged. In these cases there is no tractive force holding the vehicle where it is and there is potential for the vehicle to slide about when not on level ground. This can cause damage to both the trail and the vehicle. Skill will tell you when you should and shouldn't have diff locks engaged. You are correct. If you have diff locks, use them. But use them appropriately.
@@rileysale5883 Diff locks quite literally doubles traction over an open diff when you lift a wheel. When power cannot be transferred by an open diff, a locker does it. Driving off road causes damage when done incorrectly, locked or not. But trying to push an incapable vehicle up a hill or obstacle that it can't manage is going to damage the vehicle, the trail or both and you end up having to take more passes at it. The correct time to use lockers is all the time on a serious trail. Learn to drive with them engaged and you'll be even better. Bashing around on rocks, breaking your rig and damaging nature is a shitty thing to do because some guy on RU-vid has dumb ideas about what makes a good driver.
I've told young cashiers I know to quit relying on the register to tell you what the change on a purchase is and learn how to make change. The response I mainly get is "Why bother, if the register breaks my phone has a calculator app on it. Some people like staying ignorant.
I used to be able to calculate docket amounts in my head faster than a cashier with a cash register. These days though, cash registers are instrumental in calculating stock levels for re-ordering, stocktakes & customer preferences so advertising may be targeted towards them.
@@keithhaycraft3765 Precisely why I was a little sassy on 5stardave's comment. I'm old enough to understand what he's banging on about and see its merit...once upon a time. As you allude to, Keith, it's certainly a different world and the need for farriers has changed too. 5stardave I love being able to do what you're saying, but bosses want no mistakes and computers minimise errors way more than they're failures. And if you're referring to a worse case scenario, well you'd be right but wrong...were going to be be requiring much more than checkout chicks with math,
Dear Andrew St.Pierre White, Front and Rear Lockers were an Option you could choose for the Mercedes G Gelandewagen first produced in 1979. They became Standard in 1985, cheers.
Thanks again for the video, I 100% agree with you, many may be surprised by how far the truck will go over tough terrain without engaging lockers, of course the argument about preserving the drive train by engaging the lockers does stand. To learn when to engage is knowledge that only comes with real time experience. To “play” and learn what your vehicle is capable of is a valuable source of expertise. Well done, thanks again.
I wish people thought about others more when they go off roading. I see too many people flying around the tracks, not giving any mind to it, and just tearing it up without a care in the world. Some of the places I have gone to I notice so many pot holes, and it just annoys me when I see no one lets there tyres down because they couldn't be bothered.
I know exactly what you mean. When I was a forestry student I only had an old rusty Subaru Legacy, but with thick underbody protection, a little lift and bigger allterrain tires. I drove it everywhere and dared a lot tougher tracks than I should have but I learned a lot while doing so. I learned how hard I can drive a vehicle without breacking something, what momentum means and where to use and don‘t use it, you learn to drive and find traction. Now I drive two triple locked Toyotas one 80 Series and a Prado 150 and I use the lockers mostly for not ripping open the surface and destroying tracks and for very heavy stuff.
100% agreed Andrew. Laning with my uncle in his Defender 90 we’d rarely need to engage low range or lockers thanks to his skills and I learned a lot from him. Off road in my own vehicle now I’m a firm believer in seeing how far I can get with it in a normal configuration before engaging any other aids. I feel this helps me to learn the limits of both the vehicle and myself while also understanding the benefits the various aids can give me if and when I really do need them
Toyota offered cable actuated diff locks front and rear on the Land Cruiser in the 80s and offered electric front and rear lockers in the Arabian market in 1990 on the FJ80 VX trim. Mitsubishi offered vacuum actuated lockers in the early 90s.
We have never had rear or front lockers, just the standard centre locking diff on Land Rovers. We have installed an Ashcroft Heavy-Duty air locker in the rear axle of our new project. The main reason is simple, we will be traveling on our own a lot more and that will help a lot. Being able to drive very slowly with a big heavy overland build, means we can pass difficult sections. Sections that previously would have had us cross-axled and the only real way to cross was to use more speed. Really looking forward to intentionally getting cross axled so we are stuck, and then turning on the locker and just driving out, its going to be exciting!
When I was young back in ancient times we had Miller lockers . A miller locker is a couple of miller beers and a miller stick welder, weld up your diff and go 4 wheeling. I had a 1972 toyota corolla with a miller locker that I took wheeling in the southwestern deserts, great fun wish I still had it. My 87 Range Rover has limited slip front and rear , less likely to break axles as opposed to lockers.
80 Series offered front and rear differential locks as an option starting in 1993. My 1996 has them. This was at least for the US market. But this might have been the first 4WD in the US to offer F&R lockers as a factory option. Also, I think the white tundra was early 2000s? 2008 was the new body style
I've had several 4x4's in my time and have never been in a situation where I absolutely could not get past an obstacle without lockers. There have been two incidents where I needed assistance from another vehicle due to not having lockers, and really only one occasion where I would say lockers were absolutely necessary on a 5 rated trail. As I have never had lockers on a personal vehicle, I had very much given up on getting past the obstacle until I gave the keys to a much more experienced driver and he was able to get my small jeep with only a 2" lift and 33's through. I was beyond amazed at the feat and it changed the way I view upgrades to a vehicle. More recently, I had the pleasure of owning an air-cooled VW beetle that I had turned into a lightweight, off-roader of sorts, and even with it being 2wd and having an open differential, I never once found a situation where I couldn't make it through, granted I never took it heavy rock crawling. That being said, I entirely agree with you on the ethics aspect of it. My beetle was by far the least gentle on a trail and I had to be much harder on the vehicle to get through the same thing that any of my 4x4's would have been able to get through just fine.
We had a Series 1 V8 Disco in Dubai & often used the slip diff lever when wadi bashing. LandRover drivers visited & we were invited to try the new Range Rover. At the end of the trial the group was asked "who uses the slip diff", &, I was the only person to put his hand up. Maybe because there was not much wadi bashing going on as most were driven by "Jumeirah Janes" on tarmac. Also, maybe that is why it was removed on our TD5 ? Whilst in DXB QLD we purchased a Disco TDi in QLD many years ago (circa 24) & took it to British Off Road at Chevallum when we moved here. We discussed various options & were told only get diff locks on the back axle because, as you said, about the steering. The South African mechanic called it our old project car as it could be fixed with a hammer & a coat hanger ! We often still use the slip diff but rarely the lockers, according to need. Most of the reviews of the latest Discovery, aka Defender, are produced by people who have no idea about wadi bashing & the like & can only press buttons, until they burn out that is. SKILL is the magic ingredient for any driving, be it on the autobahn at 160km+ or outback on a gravel track.
You can go a long way on handbrake and brakes alone, i have been driving a lot of 4wd back in the 80-90’s and never had lockers or a winch, it just made it more fun with out
I agree with you completely. I think it's also important to keep something in reserve, especially on trails or tracks that aren't just rock and steepness. Recovering your vehicle when you "stuck" it with everything locked up is going to be quite a challenge. When traveling off-road with only one vehicle, I consider my diff locks and winch as recovery gear. If I can't get there with my own skills and the standard low range and such, then maybe it's not such a good idea to carry on under those conditions. A good friend of mine has an H1 Hummer with the torque biasing differentials, basically similar to locking differentials. We've had that beast get buried to the frame a time or two, and it's nearly unrecoverable because of how far and deep it can get before it finally stops.
I’ve been driving 4wd vehicles off-road for about 25years now. I bought a Ford Ranger last year which has a rear diff lock, first one I’ve ever had. I agree that it’s a game-changer. The power of the Ford then adding the diff lock makes this vehicle far more capable than anything I’ve owned before. Kinda glad I learned how to get places without a locker. 😀
Locking diff also reduces the chance of over spinning tyres in the air which then slam down and stop instantly which can break cv's and crown/pinions... of course this depends on how much momentum you are using to try and get past a difficult section. Ask me how I know.
@@stuartkcalvin With diff locks, you don't need to use so much throttle and momentum in the first place, and if you do lift a wheel it won't be spinning out of control as your RPM heads to the redline which is what happens when you have open diffs. Diff locks let you drive slower and less aggressively and results in less breakages in most situations
I've learned it.... Now I have diff locks... I'll them on. Less damage to components... Less damages to tracks.... Less chance of damage to myself and my passengers. I agree with you intent... But probably not the overall "leave them off" untill you get stuck. in reality most places where you would play will be a public track rather than private land
In my Unimog 404 I go as far as I can with the diffs open and then lock the rear. Then go as far as it'll go before I have to lock the front, which almost never happens. If there's a soft area that I don't want to tear up of course I'll lock 'em both to save the trail. Unimogs have had select-able lockers front and rear since 1951.
In a mog, for about 99% of the time you won't need full diff lock. They are that capable. Even in places where I should have used 4x4, I didn't and 2wd worked just fine. On sand, maybe adjust the tyre pressures.
404s are so capable off road that I stopped wheeling mine a dozen years ago because there were no real challenges for it (without crossing three states) and I got bored. My Pathfinder on 33s has been a lot more fun because there are lots of challenges for it, and me. Buggies are getting capable enough that they're building tougher obstacles and it's probably time to occasionally wheel the Mog again.
I recently swapped my Dana 30/35 axles for Dana 44s (off of a new Rubicon). I thought I made a mistake, since I couldn't turn much when I was testing in a parking lot. This video answered the one question I never asked, much appreciated, learned a valuable bit.
As a Rubicon owner, I use the least tool to safety make it down the trail with minimal trail damage. So I'm often in 2WD until I need 4WD, and then the rear locker, and then the front locker. I'm often surprised how much I can accomplish in 2WD. I don't do this to learn anything, it's just not much fun to crawl over absolutely everything all day long. With a traction defeat comes some learning.
Absolutely agree with you re the skills learned in order to get a non locked vehicle through. What I’ve noticed over the decades is the degradation of well used tracks due to the use of 35” and larger tyres. Ruts are deeper, bog holes are easy to belly out on etc...... undoubtedly though, a locker can look after the track better despite the tyre size.
I was driving Mahindra commander 750DP for around 19 years with just 4 wheel drive and Army Jeep tyres, no locking diffs or any other modern conveniences, It did everything i wanted to do and life was contended. Now the new Mahindra Thar with mechanical rear auto diff lock life feels like heaven. Felt like I had come out of the world of flintstones era. But yes, as you rightly said one should know the right use of it.
2:40 Before the G-Wagon both the Haflinger (1959) and Pinzgauer (1971) came standard with rear and front differential locks. They were made by the same company as the G-Wagon by Steyr Daimler Puch (SDP) in Austria. They are still building the G-Wagon, but were bought by Magna in the 90's and are now called Magna Steyr. They are the same company wich is currently designing the Ineos Grenadier.
100% Correct. But you'll the reply from the author of the video that the Haflinger, Pinzgauer and Unimog are not considered "main stream" or "civilian" off-road vehicles.
Nice video. This is the first time I have I have heard someone say that skill is an off-roading essential. Normally it is an $80k 4x4 with $120k worth of after market stuff attached as their top essentials.
I currently have open diffs and was considering selectable lockers for my vehicle, but then I had an idea.. What about a Torsen style LSD? I believe the military Humvees have these fitted and is a great tool for doing both in terms of not damaging the track because it gives you good traction as well as learning the skills to make them work when playing around on rough terrain. What are your thoughts on that?
Personally, I think the torque-biasing LSD, such as torsen or quaife, mixed with modern brake based traction control would be the best on/off road system. I'm sure lockers would still be better in some situations, but it would likely be exceedingly rare with good as some traction control systems are getting.
I have a different situation for using mine . I drive a 2019 jeep cherokee trailhawk. An extremely capable crossover and off roader that the most of the "old school" off road community thinks is a joke and shouldn't be on a trail. Especially old school jeep people. So when I am on trails doing trail reviews for our youtube channel , I do my best to do all obstacles with as little drama as I possibly can , because I know for a fact If I look like I'm struggling I will be fighting the comments and narrative that my Jeep should never have been on the trail in the first place. That said , I also have seen far too many people destroy trails bouncing around trying to do things open just to prove that they can. And I think that is reckless and selfish as well. I know the traction control and drive modes on my kl are very capable as is my rear locker , but here in Colorado where we are having trails get shut down because of irresponsible driving , I can't in good conscience contribute to that
Andrew, I really appreciated you highlighting driver skills as the missing component in many of today’s off-roaders. You really just emphasis common sense which, alas, is not common. Might I suggest a topic for one of your future workshops; ‘Automatic transmissions have increased the number of unskilled drivers in the bush.’ Should be controversial and spice things up a bit! Keep up the great content. Cheers, Phil
Nice idea, but I'm not sure I agree with that. Driving an auto in sand and on dunes is so much easier than with a manual, but over rocks, steep climbs and down very steep slopes, an auto needs a different set of skills rather than fewer skills. :-)
@@4xoverland IMHO “easier” is generally less skilled, sort of the inference I also took from your content. I think in most circumstances automatic transmissions leave you less involved in what the vehicle’s doing. I totally understand why folk opt for easy, but it limits their experience in taking their vehicle to its limits...partly your point re diff locks too. Happy to ‘agree to disagree’. Cheers.
I have to agree ethics is important, where I live we see to many fire access tracks torn up by drivers who watch another channel where the so called experts rip up more bush in the name of technical driving purely to sell a product in the name of four wheel driving. The tracks are very important not just for fire access but also bush rescues by all means use them and explore this wonderful country but leave them as you found them so everyone can enjoy the privilege of camping in the great outdoors. Thank you Andrew for the videos but especially the ethics. Gippy
I have watched this a few times over the months. My Discovery 2 has taken me pretty much anywhere I have wanted to go, with the factory center diff lock, and a decent traction control system, but I finally blew both my factory diffs (front and rear) and really didn't want to put lockers in. The D2 has taught me SO much about choosing good lines, center of gravity, weight transfer, carrying momentum, limiting wheel speed, left foot braking.... so much! But I finally pulled the trigger on a set of Ashcroft Air Lockers, so my vehicle will be triple locked. So, I must me three times as cool, right? LOL! I ultimately upgraded because Land Rover parts here in the United States are always a premium, so it was only very slightly more expensive to get the Lockers, and saved money by doing the work myself, in typical Land Rover style. They are also MUCH stronger, so hopefully they don't break anytime soon.
In 1980's Toyota 60 series had factory diff locks option using a lever and cable actuated system. I've only seen it on Japanese market but it may be on others. The two levers were situated on RHS under the dash/steering wheel area on those Japanese market RHD models.
Interesting subject: I remember testing a Mercedes G-Wagon in a quarry-based four-wheel drive centre in the mid 1980s. It was a three-litre diesel normally aspirated and - as the saying goes - would not pull the skin off a rice pudding. Well, despite being beautifully built, etc, etc, in mud, uphill, it was crap with the diff locks off and crap with them on! Tyres were only dual purpose, but a similar Land Rover with similar tyres performed better (with no diff locks). At the time I put this down to the Land Rover having more grunt at very low revs. The Merc engine had to be revved a bit more and I thought this led to the tyres breaking away and spinning. However, I'm open to the suggestion that with more aggressive tyres diff locks will be more effective.
I was just thinking about this and trying to plan some off road outings with the group where you aren't allowed to use lockers. I think it would be fun and there are several people that would benefit from understanding their machines capabilities. That said, I wouldn't get rid of lockers for anything! When is gets to rock crawling or deep mud, they are a must! Agree with you on everything!
Stating the obvious, but, diff lock useful not just when lifting a wheel, also when a wheel becomes lightly loaded relative to the wheel on the other side. I agree, line and technique are number one. Thanks for the tread lightly message.. good for the trail, easier on your vehicle.
When upgrading my Rubicon axles to Dana 60 I did not put eLockers in, instead, I put in Eaton Truetrac limited slip front and back - much against the advice of just about everyone. Despite travelling all over Europe, Moroccan Sahara and even doing a long trip through Iceland I have never (not once) missed the lockers. I don't like lockers at all, you always use them after you are stuck and with bigger tyres you seriously risk snapping a drive shaft in 4LO. Truetrac are easy on the components, allow you to steer and although they don't fully lock up, combined with the Jeeps ESP breaking system they get pretty close to it. But regardless they are a lot more fun and you do think more before taking a certain line.
This one is very on point. There is a reason the old folks are better drivers and can see the route. They learned to drive without traction control and instant switches. Lockers do have their place. As 4x4 becomes more popular here in the States I've been seeing more and more people flipping switches on the trails and it is rather sad. They never learn the basics and when something breaks with the electronics they are stranded. They don't even think about packing rocks to make a path. The button is broke and I am stuck.
I understand i might be talking from the other end of the spectrum. Having learnt to drive challenges without lockers. I have a rear locker and reduction gears, selected so I can drive as slowly and controlled as possible. It saves both the track and the vehicle, reducing shock loading goes a long way in preventing a cv going bang. I follow the term in 4wding, drive as slow as possible but as fast as necessary. Lockers especially on a touring vehicle its been a god send, not having huge tyres and a lift scaled to handling weight rather than flex. They allow you to tackel incredible terrain 1000's of km away from home with less worry for braking something and being stranded. Irun 27.5" tyres on my suzuki which with the correct line will get you just about everywhere.
I broke a front axle on a very difficult trail. While my traveling buddies used their lockers, I was forced to follow in rear wheel drive only. Well, my gen 3 Montero (no lockers) made it to the main road and put the rest of my buddies to shame for relying on their lockers to do the same (some of them did get stuck even with lockers activated and had to get winched out). So yes, good judgment goes a long way. Thanks for pointing that out.
The other point that is important is that it will stop track damage. But as you are saying learning lines and skill will help you to know when you are damaging the track. Stop on love this video. Ethics and track damage is very important.
You last comment in the vid is the valid one, Its your duty to make sure you know your vehicle ls ability. Not using lockers, you will probably lead to damage the track and possibly your car. If you have it, use it. Its about being safe, and minimize damage and risk, while enjoying the outdoors and your rig.
I usually don't even lock my centre diff until it's absolutely necessary. Only think I do when I go offroad is turn the nannies off and drop the tyre pressures depending on the terrain.
Thank you for this rant! 👌 If tech keeps increasing, maybe your 4x4 can drive up a wall one day, and the point of that would be proving what exactly? Your skill? Lockers are there to be used sensibly in tight situations and to prevent track damage, I completely share your sentiments!!
I am definitely not a off road driving God but I have alot of my previous of road driving in a lifted 2wd falcon ute with a rear diff lock. Over the time of owning that vehicle I embarrassed several "propper 4wd" vehicles. It definitely teached me a lot about momentum (not outright speed) , tyre pressure and picking the correct line ect. I will also add that I was responsible with how I drove the vehicle and I did less damage to tracks than people that couldn't be bothered to let their tyres down or towing something. I also mostly travelled with more capable vehicles that could give me a tow if needed. I have since changed vehicles to something at the other end of the spectrum (4x4, lots of clearance extremely good articulation, rear diff lock and very slow low range gearing) and touch wood I haven't been stuck once yet.
These days, where the conventional wisdom seems to be that any rough track beyond a maintained gravel road requires a 37" tall tire and selectable front and rear lockers along with a 60:1 or lower crawl ratio, I often wonder how I managed to get anywhere in wild country whilst in a high-clearance, low-range four-wheel drive which lacked those features. The first time I did California's famous Rubicon Trail, I was a six year old kid riding in the front passenger seat of an uncle's WWII relic Willys MB. That "Jeep" was stock aside from the installation of aftermarket recovery hooks, a roll-over protection bar in the cab, and 10-15 Gates Commando tires on white-spoke steel wheels. No lift. No lockers. No tire taller than 31 inches. No problem. But my uncle was a master at picking the path of least resistance and keeping all four tires in as even contact with planet earth as possible, and he was coordinated enough to use a brake pedal and the accelerator at the same time if wheel-spin needed checking. Back then, if we encountered a section of track that an essentially stock Jeep couldn't handle, we didn't run to a basically non-existent off-roading aftermarket for unobtainium parts to modify the vehicle with. Instead, we used commonly available tools, like shovels and picks, and modified the track until a stock CJ Jeep or FJ 40 could traverse it. When I first went on the Rubicon, it was just another "Jeep trail" of many others my family used to access hunting, fishing, gold panning, and soul-soothing camping spots. The trail was a means to an end and not an end, in and of itself. The four-wheel drives my dad and uncles owned weren't toys to play in the dirt with. They were serious transportation tools for getting from home to some place in wild country and getting home again. The point was to get there and back with as little drama as possible. It wasn't to test the limits of man and machine. Many years ago, I owned a TJ Jeep, which I bought from a government agency. They must have had some clout with the factory, because mine was a four-cylinder /5 speed manual with factory limited-slip in the rear D-35 axle. It also had slightly taller springs than normal and had a fresh set of 31" X 10.50" -15 rubber on it when I bought it. The only modification I did to it was a set of Rancho shocks and the addition of a pintle hook hitch so I could tow my M-416 cargo trailer behind it. When my brother in law first laid eyes on my new-to-me Jeep, he proceeded to go down a laundry list of stuff it "needs in order to go off-road." It needed more lift, bigger tires, and lockers, front and rear, according to my brother-in-law who had never been on a track more challenging than a semi-maintained U.S. Forest Service dirt "Fire Road." The last time I did the Rubicon, I did it in that TJ I had, as described. I did it with my now-ex wife and our kids in the passenger seats and while pulling my loaded M-416 behind us. That was 15 years ago, at least. I probably couldn't do that now in 2021, but if I can't, it's because off-roading to many these days is a combination manhood measuring, equipment arms race, and crawling speed drag race contest. If nobody had access to anything more capable than a stock CJ Jeep, the Rubicon Trail would be traversable in a stock CJ Jeep like it was when I was a kid. These days, we let Mother Nature have her way with wild country tracks and conquer her via an off-road aftermarket "arms race" that I'm not altogether keen on participating in. These days, my backcountry transport is an old 2004 Nissan Xterra XE with five-speed manual gearbox and factory rear limited-slip differential. It had a fresh set of 265/75 -16 BFG Mud-Terrains on it when I bought it six months ago. I can drive anywhere I care to in remote wild country in that thing. If a track truly REQUIRES 37-inch tall tires and front and rear lockers to traverse, I'm not interested in traversing it in a four-wheel vehicle. I'd rather ride a horse on it, or a trail bike, or find an alternate route to my wilderness destination that doesn't demand more capability than something like my Xterra has. The overwhelming majority of legal, open routes on public land here in the U.S.A. really don't require a vehicle with front and rear lockers. We got along fine on them without those things back when they were unobtainium and still could now.
Totally agree. My Mitsi with lockers and an auto box just made things easy. The Suzuki Jimny (old one) was much more fun and made you think about what you are doing.
I keep on forgetting I have rear differential lock. Was going up a rutted hill with lots of boulders and loose fine dust while towing an off-roader camper. Lost traction half way up the hill with 4 low engaged, just let the vehicle roll back a few centimeters and turned the steering wheel a bit and got traction and managed to get up without trouble. Remembered I had diff lock after the hill :D
I agree. My Jeep does not have lockers. I plan to add them, but they will be one of the last upgrades. Driver skill is the one thing that nothing can take from you. Technology can fail. It's best not be completely reliant on it.
Actually the pre-predecessor of the Gelaendewagen was already fittet with front an rear locks: The Steyr Puch Haflinger (made in Graz/Austria) was lanced in 1959 and was in small amounts exported also to Nigeria and the US. Its larger successor, the Pinzgauer had hydraulic operated locks from 1971 which were implemented in the Puch (Mercedes delivered only the motor and gearbox) G-Wagon in 1979.
Put it in 4h when you need to, put it in 4l when you need to, engage diff locks when you need to. I drive a torsion IFS ute and it loves to lift wheels - lockers solve the problems that causes. Good video, good pros and cons. Fully agree though - lockers just make things easier - most places that they get used could be done without lockers and a bit of track building
To add my 50c... when I learned to drive a 4x4 on a farm in South Africa from the age of 10 years old, one of the things that I felt made me a better driver was that the lockers were manual so I had to get out all the time. So since I was lazy to get out and turn them on and then again soon after off... I ended up trying my best not to use them at all👍🏻. Did get me stuck a few times in tough spots but also had to learn to get out of those too
Yep, definitely horses for courses.. I’ve owned numerous 4x4s over the past 35 years, good ones and bad ones. I agree that many people use lockers when not needed, however it’s like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted 😉 If you have it, use it, if you feel you need it. And don’t forget the auto lockers, like the Detroit locker, used them in a few vehicles, wouldn’t use them now, due to modern four wheel drive vehicle tech..good advice, well explained, diff locks can save you and break you can’t substitute skill and experience 👍🇦🇺
If you are smart you can visualize where to put your wheels, skills start with learning. A lot of people don’t take the time to learn off road driving theory. I watch your videos like they are school and I learn a lot. I don’t even have an off road rig yet but when I drive other people’s rigs with no locks they are impressed with my skills. All thanks you you and other videos I’ve watched. Land Rover has a nice instructional video too.
Get a driver thats used to lockers to drive a unlocked vehicle , they get nowhere. Get a driver thats used to no lockers and give them lockers and they go everywhere.
