Best intro ever, I was smiling all the way. I wanted to make a new video on this topic too, the most controversial topic ever. Great video as always, watched it more than once.
Thomas, please make a video. I know you do believe that cables make a difference in sound. But I also like how you explain it, and I'm the guy that usually doesn't hear difference between cables. Would be great if you included some real blind tests :) BTW, just subscribed to @Joe
@@IsmaelMartinezPRMy experience tells me it does but it does not stop me from enjoying this video. I think people take this cable thing too seriously...we can all have different point of view and still be respectful.
The 19k $ shoe laces will make you run faster, guaranteed! Because people will be chasing you to try to steal them. You'll have no choice but to run faster.
For speaker cables, low resistance is the priority and gauge (diameter) matters if the length exceeds ten feet (about three meters), for line-level unbalanced signal cables (e.g. "RCA") the priorities are shielding effectiveness and shunt capacitance (the lower the better), so thicker is not necessarily better electrically. It should be mentioned that at the usual home stereo speaker cable lengths of under ten feet, the wire gauge is almost irrelevant -- anything 22 AWG or thicker is going to sound pretty much exactly the same unless human psychology in the form of confirmation bias is involved, e.g. "I paid so much for this cable that I'm not going to admit there's no improvement -- even to myself." As for banana plugs, if they're not of good quality they can actually be worse than stripped wire ends on (well-tightened!) binding posts or even those dreaded spring terminals you find on low-end speakers -- IOW, don't bother with them unless you're prepared to go for the good stuff, because their shape can give them a pretty narrow, unreliable contact area if they're not made to the correct dimensions with the right kind of properly plated spring steel. Remember, a stripped (and preferably "tinned" with solder) wire end has only one potential failure point, while any kind of plug has at least two -- one where the plug contacts the socket, and one where the conductor is attached to the plug!
Vibrations are absorbed and reflected away more when the room isn't clean but when the room is clean there's not as many obstacles to reflect away the sound or to absorb the sound, thus making it sound different but usually better because the sound is more direct and thus, clear.
my system really sings when i convince a couple strippers to come over after there finished dancing and ive layed out some hollywoods..... only way to get through 40 hours a week of making sombody else rich
I’ve spent way too much on the speaker cable snake oil theory over the years. Go with good looking 12awg like the man says, it’s pleasing to the eyes and ears!
Most important is: - Leads thick enough - Connectors make reliable contact - Shielding is sufficient - Cables are sturdy - Flexibility, not too stiff Silver connector pins can be useful to prevent contact problems, since silver oxidation conducts even better than normal silver. Copper oxidation on connector pins creates reliability issues and gold plating can get eroded away. Avoid soldering contact pins onto cables, since soldering tin is fragile and tends to crack/break. Try crimping when possible. Regular copper leads is good enough for almost all applications, ignore the oxygen free 6N, 7N or higher purity types of copper.
@Peder Hansen Depends on the environment. In normal home applications the EMI is so little (thanks to EMC regulations) that it shouldn't be an issue indeed. But it's just good to be 100% certain by ruling out the possibility of EMI issues.
Brilliant. I'm a cinema engineer and the standard is 2.5mm solid core mains to the screen arrays, 4mm to each sub. Some of those runs can be 100's of meters and run thousands of watts. If it's good enough for professional cinema, it's good enough for domestic hifi.
@@TeslaNick2 good for you. I assume you have actually tested this assumption accurately. If you cannot hear a difference, your choice is sensible: why spend more for no result?
Great video - this is the honest positive take on speaker cables. I enjoy having nice looking and well made cables because they are just that, but most consumers of expensive cables are reluctant to admit that the real value of cables is emotional, not acoustic.
I don’t use expensive exotic cables myself, instead I use the middle of road type like Mogami, Canare,Belden These are just right, and at a solid price. Great subject …..Thanks
Btw dude, I've noticed you also have this almost "Zen like" state when it comes to arguments and debates and life in general. Even with our super, beyond heated Bose debate, you kept it beyond cool, and far cooler than most period. That I find fascinating and respect. Glad to be back at it myself.
Thanks for that. I wish that were more true. I can get snappy when I feel like some people are being overly nasty for no reason. I strive to be a bit more chill about stuff so I appreciate that.
Best cables for the money, in my opinion are the Mediabridge 12 gauge with banana plugs, they are fully molded with rubber to limit corrosion and 99.9 percent pure copper and only $15.00 for 6 ft.
I started a thread on AVSForums showing everyone how to make "high end" cables year and years ago....for which I was instantly banned due to cable sponsors complaining. LOL It still has thousands of views and hundreds of pages. I was Pure-Evil on AVS Forums. I still make my own speaker cables. I now use 1/2" thick 6 gauge x 4 triple shielded high quality power cables from an electrician supply for professionals. They sound fantastic, but of course no better than lamp cord as a connection is a connection...however, they are beautiful Anacondas running across my floor. If you have to have your cables exposed, they might as well look beautiful!!! Tech Flex is super cheap and easy to come by in any colour or combination. Good banana plugs or spades are also easy to come by cheaply. Don't buy into the bullshit in "high end" cables, as the only issue you need to worry about is if a connection is being made or not. That's it! Great video!
Do you mean you made a thread that was merged into another thread and then banned for trying to sell custom cables to users? Because all of that is in the thread......
@@JinxCanada LOL, okay, I really dont care anyway. Just saying that everything you are saying is documented on AVS forums. Your "thread" was merged into another, after less than a week, you have some posts, in a big thread, that later speaks about how you were banned trying to sell cables.
All electrical wires are affected by EMI. Any change in magnetic flux incudes a current. The question is _how much?_ It's one of the things affecting SNR, but it's usually not to a point you can actually hear, unless there's tons of it.
Usually it will be. In some places there might be a lot more EMI though. Anyway, simply adding shielding to cables _shouldn't_ add that much cost to them. If a cable costs like $200, it's a rip-off. Even a shielded cable shouldn't cost more than like $20 or $30.
Knowbody Well, I’d like to try a good copper cable with decent connectors And silver solder to make my own cable. And then a set of very pure copper cables with those connectors.. Theoretically I can imagine impurities making a difference (simple physics), but I doubt it. The cheaper cable should be about 30-40 euros ($40) and the expensive set about 100 euros ($120). Probably way too much, but I want to give it all a good chance. One thing I DO know is that the cheap cable delivered with the components isn’t very good. Even I really do hear difference..
The placebo effect is real! If you give two pills to someone (containing the same total amount of active ingredient) the two pills are gonna be perceived more effective for most people than only one pill (even if 2x10mg is the same as 1x20mg). Also a psychotherapist charging 300$/h will be perceived way better and more competent than one charging 50$/hour yet it's not necessarily the case. Same can be true for whine (there's a video of this somewhere) and many other stuff. So if you pay 1000$ for a pair of interconnect, it WILL subjectively sound better, even if it's probably not better than a 50$ one. And you're not an idiot for thinking so, it's just the placebo effect.
It's called 'perceived value'. There is a tipping point of cost on most things. Getting it spot on takes some work, but once you get that price point that the customer doesn't think, " that's a low price! What's wrong with it" or " wow! I'm not paying that just for those!" The exception to this is evident when watching something like the "housewives" series. They have ABSOLUTELY no taste and it doesn't matter if it works or not, if the price tag, or label says ' I'm here look at me' then cost is irrelevant.
This is the best conversation about cables that i have seen or read so far, I've been reading audio publications for over 30 years since Stereo Review Magazine was a hot selling publication, you remind me of Julian Hirsch who was a long time contributor to many publications and audio critic, he was an electrical engineer and used the scientific approach in all his writings, as an electrical engineer myself I couldn't agree more with you assertions, thank you for sharing !
I made several different pairs of wire to test on myself and friends. Consisting of 14 & 12 awg CCA & OFC with bare, pin, bfa, banana connects all 10ft lenght. Out of 5 friends non of them could absolutely be certain if I has switched the wires or not. I had hung a old king size sheet in front of my system. Going behind the sheet to change the wire and sometimes leaving the wires and just telling them I changed them. Basically for most people good 14 or 12 awg CCA is perfectly fine, paying a premium for OFC is really not necessary unless it helps ya sleep at night.
Im a guitar player first and foremost. Cables make a monster difference in that world. Cables can dampen or increase noise, reduce high frequency content as length or shape changes (coily), improve or alter feel, and improve reliability. Everything in the signal path matters, how much is the question. At the end of the day it comes down to what you can afford and what can you tolerate. There is always a point of dimishing returns to cope w as well... Use what works for you. It's one of the last investments I would prioritize in hifi though. Building your own is absolutely worth learning.
Insulation is only required for low voltage signal cables, not for speaker cables. Because the induced noise from nearby cables is so low that you will never hear it in you speakers directly. It would have to be amplified before you can even notice it.
One very useful metric to gauge the quality of a speaker cable is to measure its resistance, (ohms), over a common length. Say around 8ft? The lower the resistance between each cable, should provide a more accurate and responsive signal path to the speakers. I don't think I have seen any reviewer demonstrate this. May be a good, interesting topic for future content?
I have not not tried super expensive cables but have tried a cheap £7 XLR interconnect against one costing £800. I wont mention the interconnect as that would be wrong. There was absolutely no difference in sound quality. I suspect the super expensive ones do nothing too. In fact the £7 is in my system, the more expensive one made redundant after it could not reach the pre amp after re arranging my kit.
Everyone seems to be talking about speaker cables again. This has been talked into the ground, although i do agree with you. There is no quantifiable difference in speaker cable performance unless the guage is much thicker etc.... Or, over very long runs. The same cable, same length, same thickness has no quantifiable difference at all.
A few things to add... 1. Shielded cables. If you run your cables next to power cables, you might want to use shielded cables as these will block electromagnetic interference. 2. The connectors are more important than the cables. Avoid badly fitting or poor quality/corroded connectors at all costs. 3. Gold is cool but only for a very specific case. Gold is non corrosive so gold plated connectors will protect the copper from the elements. Probably not so much of an issue if the cable is fastened permanently to a speaker/amp/whatever but if your're constantly plugging stuff in and out, especially in damp or humid environments, gold will help with longevity. Corrosion leads to bad connections and nobody wants that. If you've got cables connecting to stuff in damp places, use gold plated connectors. They're not going to make the sound any better but they might save a few trips under the hood.
So I'm putting a system in my vehicle. It's a higher end sq system. I had some monster cable speaker wires that I had acquired at some point in the past and had exactly what I needed for my build. 16 awg and 12 awg. I wrapped the 12 gauge in tesa tape for my 2 way active front speakers and I used the 12 awg for the sub and covered it in some braided wire sleeve. People insist that it has to be some special car audio high end wire for quality sound. I just see speaker wire. Now........ I can say this about the monster cable speaker wire. I have multiple runs of car audio specific speaker wire that came in kits or with speakers or something I acquired over the years. I also have various speaker wires designated as home stereo use. What I've noticed about the monster cable that has to be around 17 years old, is that the jacket is still as pliable and soft as it was new. Also, it has not corroded AT ALL..... A lot of the other cables I have are discolored from exposure to just the air and I live in a very dry climate. This monster cable still looks brand new. So, while people will call it overpriced gimmicky junk, it has lasted almost 2 decades through multiple home systems and now a car audio installation. In my opinion, the price I must have paid for it has been well worth it. It's actually saved me money, so I can't argue that!
Good Video, I agree w what you say I have 10Awg Cuz they look cool, But I made my own RCA cables W coaxial quad shield W 18awg copper cable , If you want to make difference spend money on this instead Kimber speaker wow it made a huge difference, Also binding post and jumpers (some are made w steel and some don't allow the pug to go in very far) and Banana plugs make a huge difference (Some have no tension and have a loose fit and steel in them ) Do magnet test. 1- Coaxial copper 2-Nakamichi Speaker BFA banana plug 3- KnuKonceptz Kord Speaker Wire Ultra Flex Blue OFC
Amazing work Joe. Love the intro. Great topic, and one that I really do not have an answer to. But I did put a Type-R logo on my car and I could feel an extra 25hp boost.
As someone that used to install and sell car audio, I will say that better quality cables (speaker wire, power wire, RCA's) do make a difference, but the return on investment is subject to the theory of diminishing returns. What does that mean? That means investing a little money into quality cables makes a difference up to a point. Whatever cables your retailer offers with installation for free are probably easily improved upon with minimal investment. The video did not mention 2 important aspects to cables that make a difference. First, Strand count. Take two power cables of the same gauge and the one with the higher strand count will conduct better. Its about more surface area . That is also why banana plugs are superior to using the screw down binding posts. Not sure if you can hear the difference, but it is a measurable difference. Second, some RCA cables (interconnects) twist or braid the pairs of conductors. I'm not sure how it works, but the idea is the braid or twist help to reject noise or to cancel out noise in the line. better shielding and twisted/braided pairs are better than cheap straight non-shielded. Not all shielding is created equal either. Lots to consider. In my opinion, buying a $50-$100 interconnect will make a measurable difference compared to a $10 Wal-Mart generic, but I don't think $500 interconnect will be an equal improvement over the $100 interconnect.
I'm a Mogami and Canare fan myself. All other ones well.. whatever. That is why I make my own cables. I do like OCC over OFC though. In headphone use, I appreciate silver plated occ cables over basic OFC, but I could never tell any difference on speakers. Only in in-ear monitors.
Love the vid Joe. It was a heap of fun working with you on this one! Because of guys like yourself, the myths and 'Snake Oil' around the audio industry are coming to light giving consumers the info they need to make informed decisions about their purchases. It's quite interesting that even the bigger speaker companies are coming out with their own line of 'budget' speaker cables as they've identified the shift in the market. Even as a 'manufacturer' of speaker cables, we still encourage people to try their hand at making up the cables themselves. It's quite rewarding, can reduce cost and will likely deliver the same audible result. Otherwise, for those that don't have the skills or simply can't be bothered, we're here offering some pretty badass cables at a reasonable price. On a side note, I really dig the black cables you made up. I thought black was a little too 'boring/standard' when we introduced the Superhero and Villain, but I'm really digging it now. I think a 'Black Widow' cable might have to be on the cards ;). Thanks again!
Got me a spool of pure copper wire. Cut just enough length. Use good connectors and I couldn't hear a difference vs. my expensive cables. That was 20 years back. I think same would still be true present day.
What insulator did you use? Was it single or multi strand? What system were you using? I have to confess to some surprise that you could hear no difference between the two arrangements. What led to you buying audiophile cables in the first place?
@@barrymiller3385 Audio shops recommend anything and everything. That was how I bought them in the first place. Original set-up Spectral + Krell + Rogers Studio 1. Now, I'm cheap. Chinese Xiang Sheng 728 + Emotiva + Buchardt. G16 stranded wires.
@@davidchan9375 Whilst it is ok for an audio shop to suggest items based on listening to your requirements and using their experience any decent shop should encourage you to listen for yourself before you even consider parting with any cash.
What's important with cables, is that you are not listening to THE CABLE isolated. You are listening to a circuit, including everything inbetween. Does the cable pick up noise from the environment? How does the cable change the circuit by introducing capacitance or inductance? Often, more expensive gear will not necessarily be more "robust", but its refined internals may react differently/more harshly to some cables that worked fine with less refined equipment. In short: Cables can and will sound differently, depending on the entire chain. And most don't realize just HOW insanely fine tuned the human senses are. We notice EVERYTHING - even if we don't think we do... Those minute differences between setups that can barely be measured or even detected when doing quick A-B tests? You will most definitely spend more time listening to the setup that pleases your brain the more, makes it relax without having to "fill in any blanks" compared to your frame of reference. It's like that story of when a record company (I think) replaced the turntable(s) with CD player(s) for their Friday "record listening BBQs". Those early CD players were a far cry from the current state of optical playback, and those parties just... stopped. It wasn't the same experience.
@@joentell That's where it gets intriguing. The "easily" part. I do suspect we don't measure all the parameters that we are able to perceive one way or another, and/or with less than sufficient level of resolution. What is "felt" to be better is of course a mix between one or more improved parameters and an increased level of "feelgood" that may just as well be heavily influenced by our own satisfaction with a "well made purchase". At the end of the day, listening to music should not be an OCD exercise where the only thing that matters is how many percent better a given setup is based on measured quantities, but how it feels. I've personally heard the difference relocating a given RCA interconnect in the chain made - did it really matter if having a certain cable between source and pre sounded better than having it between pre and power amp was based on objective or subjective differences? No. It matters very little. Having e.g. interconnects with welded contacts, avoiding any copper-tin-copper transitions probably doesn't measure all that different (if at all), and any perceived difference may be just as much based on personal satisfaction because you know "These cables are well made - a real steal at $x". I remember the editor of Stereophile having a heated debate about measurements with someone at a panel debate - I wholly support the notion that reviewing audio gear is just as much about feelings as fractions of percentages and Hz. I'm an engineer, but not a fanatic - fortunately the audiophile community is a bit better at not throwing tantrums than all these bodybuilding channels on RU-vid that do little more than discredit each other...
I thought I was in my own world thinking that my car drives better after I cleaned it... 😅 . I agree that I think if you’re told something works/sounds better your mind will think that it’s better, Say you go into an AV shop, they demo you a system, speaker A is using basic copper cable priced at £1 per meter. Speaker B is using a high grade ‘lossless audio oxygen free copper’ priced at £20 a meter. Most of the time your mind would trick you into thinking speaker B does sound better. And at the end of the test they show you actually both cables are exactly the same , just one in a fancy looking sheath. 😉
If you clean and wax your car, there will be less friction so your car will use less gas and run faster. That’s what really expensive audio equipment is like. Yes, there’s probably a difference, but it’s so small and marginal that it’s measurement might as well be a standard error.
It's literally the same as replacing 1 meter of a 2 mile copper line with a fiberoptic cable and then expecting your internet to be faster. It technically would increase the speed, but by such a microscopic margin that it would not have any practical effect, or be worth the cost of installation. In the case of the audio cable, they're not even diverting from the material used within the speakers themselves, it's still copper.
In a car, the thicker gauge is because it is running 12V. Higher current = high gauge. With a higher voltage in the house, you do not require anywhere close to that thick. You don't have to worry about noise for speaker cables. For interconnects a bit more. With XLR you generally get a more snug connection and more rejection. (fully balanced) Personally I like using cables from GLS Audio, ie speakons and XLRs. Secure and won't come off even if you trip over one. You may even be able to drag your speaker along with it and you won't lose connection (twist lock w/ speakons). In my opinion, if you want a robust connection that can also handle kw levels of power, this is the way to go. Installation is also faster and more secure too. Just don't trip over the cable or the amp or speaker is coming with you.
Air Jordans make you jump higher? Nah, that's not true. But Adidas make you jump further. ;) From a scientific point of view (trust me, I'm an electronics engineer) *every* wire has an inductance, even if it's totally straight (see also: right-hand rule). If your amp stands between your speakers it's basically already half a winding of a coil from the back of the speakers to the back of the amp, right? A magnetic field is forming around *every* flowing current. The distance between the two wires of one cable also causes inductance and capacitance as in between the two electrodes of a capacitor. The inductance of one metre / yard of cable is a few nanohenry. The smallest available value of coils for crossover networks in speakers is 100 microhenry, so significantly bigger, *but* there's a probability for it to have an at least ultra tiny effect. Unwanted resistance has a bigger effect on woofers: it raises their Q-factor which affects the tuning of the enlosure, especially in bass reflex boxes. The higher the Qts of the woofer the more sensitive the tuning of the bass reflex enclosure is to changes of parameters. This becomes significant for a Qts of about 0.4 or higher, which is even quite a normal value for Qts because those drivers produce the lowest bass. The bass might lose precision or the deepest bass can disappear. An additional resistance of 1 ohm in series with an 8 ohm speaker raises the Qts by 17 %! I admit that resistance mostly consists of the resistance of the crossover coil (on average 0.3 to 0.7 ohm) and the internal resistance of the amp (0.1 to 0.2 ohm). Two metres (6.5 ft) two-wire cable 12AWG has only 0.02 ohm, but thin 20AWG already has 0.13 ohm. Anyway, a good speaker designer should take that into account. According to my favorite source of knowledge, the German DIY loudspeaker magazine Hobby HiFi, the effect of upgrading the capacitor in the crossover in series with the tweeter is bigger than upgrading the cables. They even say that without upgrading the caps upgrading the cables has no effect. They recommend to invest up to as much money in the whole crossover as all drivers cost together. But I did not verify that myself with a test yet. I'm going to explain more about this whole topic in my podcast series that I'm scripting at the moment.
I will check out your channel. I'm listening to the frequency response one now. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8TZD6LApVpA.html You make a lot of sense which I appreciate. That's what people need to hear. I feel like I should've mentioned that just because there is a measurable/theoretical difference, it doesn't necessarily mean that there will be an audible difference. I don't know if people understand how limited our hearing actually is. An oscilloscope can detect things we cannot. Interesting about using high grade caps on the tweeter, I can understand how that might help a speaker resolve more detail. Some of the caps used in these speakers are dirt cheap. Not even audio grade components with poor tolerances.
@@gufiaito69able : The translation of my previous podcasts to english is in work. New podcasts are also in work, this time both language versions in parallel. The next topics are all the different enclosure types including how to design them. I think that'll be very interesting because it includes the latest knowledge. I just wanted to add: please be patient. I'm not the fastest content producer because YT is only my 2nd hobby and I have a regular job which takes most of my time.
Thanks for all this information, most of which went over my head. However, the crossovers in my Odyssey Lorelei's (German design) are HUGE and high quality, and due to the performance of these speakers, convince me that this is a significant reason why they sound so good.
One of the most satisfying moment when i've upgraded my system was when i built the power cables choosing the wire and the banana plugs. I don't know if the system really sounds better, but as you said it makes me feel better to watch a solid 4mm cable than a thin poor 1mm! :-)
Great video. To tell the difference in wire performance just get a meter and measure the resistance between the ends. My educated guess is there's minimal to no difference in resistance between a piece of copper and aluminum cable the same diameter less than 30 ft long. You'd probably need a meter that read ohms in the smallest of fractions to find any difference if any. The difference wouldn't be noticeable to the human ear. Save your money.
I used to use 14 gauge ocf zipcord from amazon. I finally broke down and bought cable from straightwire, the entry level. I was convinced I would not hear a difference, but there was a noticeable difference, even my s.o. noticed it. I don't know if the the zip chord copper was inferior,r but the difference was very noticeable.
I use leftover bare speaker wire for LED lighting projects. I come from a mobile DJ/PA background. You nailed it on the head when you talked about cable length and thicker gauge cables. I also hate it when ‘audiophiles’ get snippy over adding an EQ to your hifi. I use 4-tracks (not 8-track), cassettes, rca victor cartridges, minidiscs, vinyl, and cd’s in my hifi setup. You can’t tell me that I’m not supposed to use an EQ and that all these formats were recorded exactly the same. Older vinyl is more tinny and less bassy as new vinyl. Cassettes were recorded on three different types with different types of Dolby. Dolby itself is an EQ process. Sometimes you can hear a constant ringing in live recordings because someone didn’t ring-out (aka EQ) the performers’ monitors correctly. EQ fixes that.
Nice video and well put, I recently found your channel but just subscribed today so thanks for the content. I'm more of a believer that even mildly well designed cables shouldn't have audible sonic differences, except maybe interference differences between shielded and non shielded or poorly shielded cables. Shielding is one of the reasons I bought the cables that are in my system, the other factor is exactly what was said here and that is the aesthetics and build quality. One of the guys I use to have do lots of work for me gave me a free pair of rca cables, they were solid silver core in air tube dielectric and fancy rhodium connectors, there isn't any sonic difference between them and any copper rca cables I have. I rarely would think I'd hear a difference when listening for it and swapping cables but any difference I've thought I picked up on were extremely subtle and then not there after switching back and forth the cables again.
I've experienced sound changes with solid copper vs a bunch of copper strands. One solid wire carries bass better, a lot of small wires together carry treble better. Something to consider
I recently made silver speaker cables that is about 30mm (1,2inch) in diameter...😬...it cost me about $200 for par of 1,5m (about 5 foot) cables (12 pairs of 2m cables twisted in one)...It does boost sound, just a little bit, make it more clean, an precise...if I would buy the same cables it would cost me around $5000...So I recommend everybody to make their own cables, interconectors, even a power cables...it's satisfying when you look and hear your own products...also much, much cheaper...
There is the clear reason why all those expensive cables are covered by dense syntetic materials. Manufacturers hide cable wire they used for production. It may appear that you will find some regular wire inside that cost $2-3 per meter.
we did some tests, copper helps bass, silver helps mids. many wires help highs as high frequencies travel on the surface of the wire.But these are more noticeable before the amplifier ...Lets say between the cd or dac and the amplifier regardless you use rca or balanced.
Yes, I believe in cables. They do exist. And yes, it is possible for them to affect your system sound differently. That really is not in question. Are the differences large? Probably not. Do "high end" cables make a difference that is justified by their price tag? PROBABLY NOT. But every cable is an LCR filter and some have more capacitance than others, while others have more inductance. Yes, this will affect frequency response...SLIGHTLY.
I trust you realise that tolerance differences in the passive components in an LCR filter will have a much larger affect on sound variations than minute differences in cables will?
OldSlowGamer ... I was skeptical speaker cables can make a difference (meaning quality cable vs quality cable). One day I tested 2 brands. There was an audible difference. Not great but you will notice it. The bass on 1 brand was more taut. I dare to say we may be tricked when it comes to mids and highs but the difference in bass is more discernible. But there will be a limit. Those $20k cables would be a sheer waste of money.
@@hushpuppykl You should try to show some measurements to show what you heard. It should be an easy test if you can show frequency response graphs before and after. It might also require some kind of impulse response test or waterfall graph showing the decay of the bass before and after.
We need to include wave shape and phase into the measurement of fidelity. And frequency dependent problems - e.g. in cables that change wave shape. If the square (block) wave of a clarinet becomes a sinus wave it sounds like a (transversal) flute. If the tiny ripples in a cello's sinus shift then you don't perceive it as a cello anymore. Provided your brain learnt to recognize them. Different frequencies go to different parts of a cable's cross section. GHz has a propensity to leave the copper entirely. Crystalline copper's properties are used in aluminum compounds to make them stronger. Break those chains and you get metal fatigue. What happens electrically? The question is if you know how to measure, what you should look for, and if your brain was trained to hear the difference. Electrical engineers typically think in simple static models and sinus waves. When you play the lowest A on a clarinet (block wave) to a three way speaker, then the base sine in the block wave comes from the woofer. Another part from the midrange and yet another from the tweeter. Do Fourier analysis to undersrand this. Now this all needs to synchroneously become the clarinet again - i.e. in phase. If your audio source and hardware have the required (good or bad!) qualities this may become apparent. Now move this reasoning to a cable as an interface with length- and frequency-dependent phase, inductance, capacitance and resistance. And it needs to bring 60A per channel from my power amp to the speakers. What would you do to get this to work?
One of the biggest problems for us to determine whether or not we, at home in our very familiar listening environment, can ***hear*** a difference between two sets of speaker cables/rca cables, or even (let me hold back the vomit while saying this...)....power cables....(okay, made it through), but the problem is, we don't have friends and wives that will take the time to give us HONEST A/B testing between two cables, where we sit and write down comments and whether we prefer A or B, what we hear, and if that is repeatable over several trials. If we get 100% results, where we hear exactly the same thing each and every time with each cable, then...yeah, there is a discernable difference. If not? It can be attributed to our mood, what we "think" we are hearing, volume, song, if a dog barked and got us aggravated half way through a demo, and...if it's that close, is it worth all this hub-bub? Me? I love comparing cables and do believe I can hear differences, but, again, I've never been able to do a proper A/B, either, so maybe I'm wrong! I DO know, that a few drops of that snake oil Joe used at the beginning? That stuff will fix up intermodulation distortion like nobody's business. XD
I would like to know where to buy some of that snake oil from at cost price by the barrel full (a technical capacity). There's also the naming conventions of wires vs cables, which I guess can also be technically used interchangeably. Specificity can be important for sure. Like when people say "underpowering your speakers can be dangerous". If that was the case, every time you turned down the volume your speakers and other equipment would burst into flames. This video is absolutely on point 👌
Lol about the snake oil. Regarding the specific naming conventions, I just find it funny when a more complicated term is coined mostly to describe high priced versions of the same product. Regarding underpowering, I think there is some truth to that. Lower powered amplifiers will clip sooner than a more powerful amplifier. Clipping produces the closest thing there is to a square wave, which can cause the speakers to go beyond their excursion/heat limits when played for extended periods of time.
"Underpowering" a speaker does not mean to make the amp wich drives it at low volume level. Actually, if the amplifier has a poor maximum power output, it is safer for the speakers to set the volume knob not too high. When a manufacturer say this in the User Guide, he's saying an universal rule: do not use the speakers with an amplifier not able to deliver enough power (current, more precisely). Otherwise, you risk to "clip" the amplifier output, sending DC signal components to the speakers that can burn out the drivers' coils, ruining them hopelessly.
@@venturarodriguezvallejo1567 I am certainly aware of that, I do know about clipping from an amplifier whilst turned up to "adequate" or loud listening levels. AC-DC/sinewave-squarewave = bad. Overpowering in this regard *can* also fry a speaker too due to the increased thermals (I have personally experienced this in the car audio world). Once again, specificity can be important as is some of the theme of this video :-)
I cant comment on speaker cables, but in terms of headphones/ iems, cables easily make a difference. Even cables that cost sub 200 have an effect. The one thing ive noticed is that a lot of the people complaining that cables are 'snake oil' usually dont even have set ups that will show a difference, thats something a lot of people forget to mention.
BEST VIDEO EVER!! Hey man, this is the "Bose Guy" from previous video(s), but damn if this isn't beautiful... Just one thing to tack on though: Shielding speaker cabling is horrible, and NOT what you want to do; I believe you were talking about RCA cables, which is yes, great, but speaker cable will get you the opposite effect; shielding withholds EMI 'release' from the speaker cabling, and will actually cause 'EMI Congestion' - which I found interesting after doing research on. Other than that: Super down to Earth video. Btw dude, I'm finally moving on from Bose et al. I still stand by their far better than trashed online crap they get, but going back to true HiFi and it sounds better than ever.
Speaker cables can make a difference if the system is of high quality. I just built a set of 10ft Canare 4s11 cables, I paid $1.35 a foot for the wire and probably $9-10 for the banana and spade connectors on each cable. The cable is in a star quad configuration and consists of 4ea #14 stranded conductors so the speaker is seeing a #11 pair of wires. I have a pair of PS Audio m700 monoblocks driving a pair of Elac Adante speakers. Despite the bad rap those speakers get I find they need a lot of breakin time and you have to tilt them forward to make up for the high position of the tweeters, I am very happy with the way they sound. My old Chane ARX-5's had belden twisted pair #16 communications cable that is well thought of and the speakers sounded very good with that wire. After breaking in the Adante's I thought they might benefit from a different speaker wire because they do take more power. The Canare cable tightened up the bass (expected) but they also seemed to sweeten the treble. In the end I improved the sound of my system by using a $45 set of cables, well worth it in my book. I'm not saying a much more expensive set of speaker cables might not improve the sound but I wonder by how much? I think I probably got the lions share of improvement with the cables I built and I can use the money I saved by not buying expensive cables to buy more music.
Well presented. Good you didn't talk about 'sound differences' of interconnects, because that is really Snake Oil! All decent quality cables sound exactly the same! BUT: How about Power cables and Power Conditioners, sometimes costing $ 10.000+. How crazy can Audiophiles be?
I haven't done any testing of power conditioners. I do believe in better cables when it comes to resisting EMI and RFI interference for long runs. For example, I paid for some pricey Mogami XLR cables because my old ones were picking up noise from nearby wires and Wi-Fi. The Mogami was silent. That is something that can be measured and easily perceived. No snakeoil with that sort of stuff.
Hi @Joe N Tell, Thanks for an excellent low-key video on stereo cables! I even went to the link and read the entire book about speaker wire, even though I knew what to expect from over 60 years of experience as a stereo hobbyist and a professional in the broadcasting business. I have a few different systems going in my home and they all are using Radio Shack 16 gauge speaker wire, with runs of only 4’ to 20’ depending on the system location. I was thinking about possibly using the new banana plug cables because my living room gear can accept those cables, but I now think that I will just leave everything alone and just continue to enjoy the music as it is! Wow, I just saved $30, because I was looking at a set of cables from Crutchfield for my credenza system. The shortest length cable was 6’ and would be fine for the credenza interior. Remember the days of Monster cable? I did try that, but it was a real pain to fit into speaker lugs so I went back to old faithful, my 16 gauge wire and that’s where I intend to stay. Thanks again, Joe, I really enjoy your work!
Hi again Joe, I did change over to OFC (Oxygen Free Copper) 12AWG 6' long cables ending in Banana plugs. I was in the process of redoing my credenza system and I came across a $25 gift card that my granddaughter had given me for Father's Day! I ordered two pairs of Mediabridge cables from Amazon for $35, with the gift card it came to $9 out of pocket. They arrived one day later (Friday). My credenza system consists of a Yamaha R-N402 internet capable receiver feeding a pair of KEF Q300 speakers and a slimline CD/DVD player. I think The MusicCast app is one of the best internet audio apps around and thus far I have filled about 30 of the available 40 memory slots. I am mobility challenged and had to sit on the floor and shuffle around while making the changes. The only glitch was that the banana plugs would not fully seat in the KEF's. It seems the plugs were about a half inch too long, but they still made proper contact. I honestly didn't expect any difference in sound, but was very surprised to note that there was more airiness, and the speakers seemed to have gained some efficiency. The overall effect was very pleasing! So there we are, I figured you would like to know how things went. Thanks pal!
I had built my speaker cables out of 16 AWG 4 conductor OFC (99,97%) polypropylene insulated bulk cable. Combined size of cables is 2 x 7 AWG (10.5 mm2). How do they "sound" in my system? In short: effortless, smooth and detailed.
@@joentell Yeah... They are pretty thick (about 3/4" OD)! But termination is not as bad as it might look. First I used gold plated ferrules for 10 mm2 wires and crimped them with inexpensive crimping pliers. And then I attached some knockoffs of WBT split-pin bananas with 2 clamping screws.
A straight cable still gives induction - that is why those devices you use to track electricity cables in your wall work. With a sufficiently sensitive (setting) oscilloscope you can also track those in wall cables: the inductance becomes visible on the scope as a 50hz or 60Hz wave.
Joey! This by far, is my favorite review you have done. I love it because this simple humble cable review was actually in disguise (to me) an effective reality check. LOL..I know, because I loved reading the comments as much as your actual review itself.:) Through out your review, you are able to consistently show that you do understand why people spend more money then they should...because why not?! It's about the experience and that's unique to everyone. But just how much are you willing to pay for that experience? Just don't be an audio-douche and tell others how much better it sounds with your new 1000 dollar cables, haha..As for the budget conscious audiophiles, I totally agree that priority is key and it doesn't have to be a limitation. With good research, sound advice, and practical established knowledge..as well as your no BS RU-vid Channel, a budding audiophile can have a decent sound system at any price point. Keep it up, your getting the word out!
I've enjoyed a lot this video again. Oh, so funny at 13'25", when those black "magic boxes" are open without NOTHING inside! 😂 Yes. It's an absurd to spend a fortune in passive elements when one can improve the equipment in far really important gear. I gess the "Top Two" of this cable-insanity are: a) The pre-cryogenized cables. Even if the manufacturers do that and the metallic crystals take any special configuration at very low temperatures, when you use them in normal conditions the metal returns to its previous state. No way. b) The "directional" cables. If the laws of Physics are not suspended for those cables, electrons flow symmetrical in both directions (the famous electron-gas behavior for not near-to-absolute-zero Kelvin). Manufacturers of this type of cables claim a "dramatic improvement" in sound. Thank God, they are so kind to print arrows on their products, in case one fails to connect properly the cables and (oh, misery!) does not feel any difference at all. Excuse me if I'm a little bit sarcastic, but cabling mess and other nonsense topics in audio makes me a small laughing devil. (BTW.: I DESERVE to own a bottle of that magic Australian oil. Genial people: the best joke in audio for years!).
I think Audio Quest has some HDMI cables that they somehow managed to make directional. LOL. It seems like they went out of their way to make them only work in a certain direction!
About 22 years ago (now is April 2021), long before this audiophile tribe/niche/fad was born, I was making my DIY RCA cables, only 20cm long, to connect two video recorders and get as better as possible videotapes copies. I was copiying fansubber recorded anime tapes and there was a noticeable degradation between each generation of copies. In short, electric analog signals do degrade, so get the proper gauge shielded cables with good connectors at the end and keep the distance between your devices (I.E. the cable lenght) as short as possible. But even with these considerations in mind, you shouldn't spend more than a few bucks depending of the lenght you need. A hundred dollars for two meters of cable is already nuts.
It makes me feel better too. :) I totally gave up on expensive branded cables and build all my cables myself. Better sound ?? Probably not. Worse sound ?? Probably not. Cheaper ?? No doubt ! Fun ?? Hell yeah !!
The only things that matter about cables is (1) its resistance, (2) possible need for shielding, (3) how well they connect to the plugs and separate signals
And I got to add I've been watching quite a few audiophile videos on RU-vid lately. Some big names. So far I haven't found anybody but you that is totally free of BS. Have you thought about running for president in 2020? ; -)
Thanks! Becoming president would be cool, but I would probably be shot for exposing how BS Washington actually is. Anyway, I was born in the Philippines so it would never happen. 😂
I thought cables might be important so I had a good pair on a system for a few months, then one day I switched out these speaker cables for a cheap set of Sony wires that came with their speakers, thin, cheap, unimpressive. Should, must be worse, right? Put them on, and nothing sounded any different. It was the same and with wire that should be shit, even thin gauge meant nothing. I got a bit depressed, lol! Gauge made NO difference in short runs. I felt like a moron.
An on the outside cleanly polished smooth car may have more drag - study "alpha value" in aerodynamics, etc. But then, removing the dirt from the interior may make it lighter so it easier accelerates.
Obeying the damping factor rule is the most important thing. Low ohm speakers and headphones need to have low enough resistance and I've seen examples that go too high.
The beginning of this video was hilarious about the snake oil LOL!!! Near the middle of the video he touched on thicker wires and electrons which was spot on. I remember running 8 foot runs of straight wire speaker cable bi-amped to the fronts. The rubber around the cables had melted near the banana jacks on the speakers end, it was very revealing! My cables were thin and my music was payed loud also the Parasound amp I was using was high current (15 amps) so I think thicker more conductive wires would have handled the energy flow from the amp. So not just sound quality but proper cable girth and insulation (EMI/RF/CL/UL) especially if you’re running your wires in-wall is extremely important!
Is there any advantage to having gold cable ends versus just attaching the speaker wire ends (the wire itself) directly to the amp and speakers? I know that after some time, the raw speaker wire tends to get a little less shiny. Sine gold does not corrode, would that be better? And would the copper wire just end up getting dull at the connection point where it meets the gold?
Must of audio cables: Cables just add coloration but you need it to perform at a standard by: getting a decent name brand (ex. emotiva, monster), shielding to keep out crosstalk, copper is a good signal transfer material, and not stiff cables. Estimated cost: 6 Interconnects ($40)and 100 feet of speaker wire ($50) and bananas clips ($20) should cost $110 or less. After wasting must money: I use nakamichi banana clips from eBay, monster copper wire and some emotiva Interconnects I got on special. I bought some color coded Interconnects on Amazon that were $30 and they're good but I can't find them for sale now. Emotiva systems will auto shutoff if your wires crosstalk.
Interesting, Since monster doesn't sell Shielded wire. The wire they tout as "shielded" the XP series, you can plainly see it is not, if you have any clue what shielded wire is.
@@cyberlocc well the speaker wires I have may not be shielded. I should probably check into that. The RCA I own aren't monster cable. I only use their speaker cable. I forget the brand of RCA I use but they are color coded and used to be sold on Amazon. I think they have their own website now. Those are actually balanced on one end and RCA on the other.
Yeah! The look is the Main thing! I know electronics so well that I know that if the wire is good enough (isolated and reasonable low resistance) They Are good enough and more expensive cables does not make sound differense at all! But if those more expensive cables looks better, I get that visual experience from them and that is a worth or couple of bucks! I just hope that some company would start selling sleeves to cables so that I can chose the color to my liking and use whatever cables that Are reasonable priced and good quality. Instead buy black capless without sleeve $500, with green sleeves $700, red sleeves $1000 (because red color is more powerfull) and red and black $2500 because red and black just looks very nice together! Have you looked cables... that is the only difference in those... the color and red + black is normally the most expensive ones!
Cables DO matter to the people who BELIEVE they matter. The problem for 99% of us is that we will never be able to blind test seriously expensive cables for ourselves. I'd love to give Nordost a run against the equivalent BJC cables, but the money needed to do that would turn a shed into a serious mancave here in Oz : no-brainer. Until that happens, all we can do is rehash the usual 'I'm an engineer and its all snake oil !' arguments. People DO spend more money on expensive running shoes (I'm not talking celebrity-endorsed sneakers - I'm talking shoes designed for athletes) regardless of whether or not they will ever run a marathon. I would argue that a very large percentage of people who are obsessed with fashion (as opposed to *style*, which is timeless) are just fine with placebo - they will move on in a few months anyway - but the stakes are much higher when you can't afford to throw thousands at something you wont be interested in 6 months from now. Do I envy the people who can afford to throw serious money are things that are essentially disposable ? Sure, but I don't envy their mindset. Thanks for shining a light on one of very few products still manufactured in Australia, Joe.
Nice explanation into the mental gymnastics people play to convince themselves to "believe" they didn't get fleeced for their snake oil and fairy dust "interconnects".
Always think about the weakest link in a chain. Makes no sense to buy 100 dollar speaker wires when the speaker maker spent only 2 dollars on your internal speaker wiring. Look inside your speaker box. Lol.
As far as expensive cables vs cheap ones, I'll have to say it depends. Interconnects are a bit trickier, but after listening to many different high end speaker cables, I ended up preferring Home Depot 8 gauge THHN hook up wire (not their speaker cable) that's doubled up. It's very stiff and dirt cheap, but it clearly SOUNDED the best.
Cables might measure differently on the test bench but this doesn't matter in real life because as long as the resistance of the cables is low enough you will audibly not hear any difference.
