Do bigger transformers sound better? 

My wife surprised me. She said you're right, bigger is better 👍 Never realised she was getting into audio ☺

It's basically "head room". You run anything to it's max no matter how weak or strong it is and it's not in it's happy place. When it's doing nothing and still make it's goals are when anything or most anyone is happy. Cars, stereo equipment, people it's all the same.

Greetings from the Netherlands 🇳🇱 Paul. Enjoying your videos and reading your book now. It has actually motivated me to get my hifi out of the boxes again and starting to set up (remodeling the house for some time etc). Thanks for the extra effort you take

As an electrician I would say the elimination of voltage drop is the goal in any system to get the maximum performance out of equipment.

Hi Paul 🖐. I saw this with working on Hammond Organ/Leslie Speakers, (and in school hehe) components are only worked minimally. Tubes, resistors, caps... well that's all there is hehe. Warmer tone, less frequencies & harmonics and transients push out/squashed. P.S. Palladium coated contacts= awesome hehe. Science 👍👍👍. Thank you !!!

Power supply upgrades - usually involving larger transformers in the power supply - was Naim's core business back in the 1990s. In the 1990s, using rechargeable batteries as phono power supplies to completely elimiate the 60 Hz / 50 Hz hum became in vogue. The improvememts is plain to hear given that moving coil phono stages operate with 60 dB (1,000 v / v ) of gain and hum supression becomes of paramount importance.

2:50 you told the same when you were explaining about speakers cables :P

Yes, I tried this myself years ago on a diy preamp and difference was big.

Yes it does. That's why I like the Naim Uniti Nova all in one audiophile system with its 770 VA toroidal power transformer.

It’s the same with microphones. I LOVE transformerless mics going into tube preamps, where others like mics with transformers into solid state. I think it might be because we listen for different things..

My Onkyo TX-NR 5010 Receiver is heavy with a huge transformer and it's sound is AMAZING!

Sansui was doing this from the 1940's as they were a transformer company before opting into hifi. This is the reason why Sansuis's sound so good and have a large reputation their house sound is second to none. PS Audio did not found this out, Sansui did way before 1974.

Big Transformers and big capacitors give big sound! Something has to move those speaker voice coils to create a Punchy Bass & low Hz waves. Power!

My old H/K Citation amp had a transformer for each channel. Matter of fact, it had two of everything except for filter capacitors, of which it had two for each side. I’m told that toroidal transformers in stereo hifi typically have at least two windings in them - one for each channel. The Naim Uniti series has a winding for each channel and circuit (amp, preamp, streamer, and CD player in the Star)

Very true Paul concerning opinions. Everybody has one.

Well said.

Thanks for that very interesting video. Although I think I follow your argument about impedance, as an engineer (of another sort), my guess is that there must be diminishing returns with bigger and bigger transformers. I’m also puzzled at why the Debut designers, in this case, can’t compensate for a smaller cheaper transformer in other parts of the circuitry? I’m also wondering at whether this magic of thicker wires is one reason the bulky air cored impedance in speaker crossovers are said to ‘sound better’ than the cheaper ferrite cored ones, ie because the less bulky ferrite cored ones have thinner windings? Your videos always teach me something I didn’t know! Thank you! The older you get the less you seem to know (I’m 75).

is this also the case with audio output transformers on tube power amplifiers? I mean I have a 5 watt amplifier, would I gain anything by replacing the audio output transformer with one that is 10 or 15 watts? If so how would i benefit?

I have a Schiit Mani Phono Pre... it is a standard 16v wal wart... i one day tried using a 24v power supply from an old laptop... the already good sounding Mani all of the sudden sounded incredible!

I have quite dramatic results with my Yamaha CP-50 stage piano, I ordered a hand build power supply, filtered, regulated, lineair, it's insane the amount of difference. I was always intrigued by the standard phone charger like plug in the wall transformer on a 2000 dollar instrument...

I once met an audio designer from Sony Japan which would make use of much oversized power transformers, feeding both his preamp and amps all at once. The sound was amazingly good and effortless, "juicy", and stereo image was jaw-dropping. His goal was to reach ZERO IMPEDANCE at all audio frequencies, something hard to attain. However, I guess there's an optimum size for designing an oversize transformer above the nominal rating required, but it should not be an overkill-sized transformer either, or else it becomes to sound dull and hard.

Howdy. Just a thought. Have You tried replacing the monster el. cap.s with Nickel Metal Hydride batteries (NiMH) ? My thinking is that should provide very low Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR) and thus low impedance. High Regards.

It does make a difference - in a demanding role, with a resolving system... Many are missing out... they argue.

They sound better. That's One reason why gryphon amps sound so good

I’ve got the same phone stage and I’m using the Power Box RS Uni 4-way linear power supply

It has almost nothing to do with impedance. In fact, the real way to look at this issue is not to say that oversized transformers sound better, but rather than undersized transformers sound bad. At the end of the day a power transformer simply has to take 120v rms from the wall and convert it into any given voltage you want. Assuming you already have an amplifier and we can't change the turns ratio of the PSU transformer, then what you need to do is make sure the transformer is capable of providing PEAK current to the amplifier. That means that the PSU transformer has to be capable of providing quick short bursts of current without sagging down the voltage, saturating the core, or distorting in any way shape or form. This usually means that you end up with a larger core transformer than you absolutely need. However, going to a much larger core will not result in better sound. In my experience a larger than necessary core can actually sound worse. The reason this myth of "bigger is always better" has plagued the audio community for so long is simply because a lot of manufacturers will put undersized or poorly designed PSU transformers into their product in order to cut cost. There are a ton of factors that go into choosing the right PSU transformer for the job. A large transformer core is usually a good idea to avoid unwanted distortion while the amp is trying to make music. Going beyond what is logical by more than 40% is just a waste of money. Trust me, I have tried.

Impedance, core material and shape most likely plays a role in the coupling and transfer of AC signals. I remember Bob Carver's hand made tube power amplifiers needed output transformers that were meticulously hand wound by Bob Carver himself.

Hey Paul. Forgive my slow response to a past video. I want to know, not about a third channel, about adding a sub. I notice that there isn't an LFE sub out on my DAC or preamp or amp. Can I use a multi channel mini DSP. I could use the two in from the amp. I could then have two out to the bookshelf speakers and one of the two remaining to the sub. This would also provide room correction. I think.. Does anyone else do this or am I just out of luck for adding a sub?

I have a Pure Class A DIY single resistor and mosfet. My toroid transformer can delivery 12vac and 36A(2 separate output parallel,2*18A) and my Bias is set based on rectifief and filtered dc 14v to around 7 volts. I have output speaker load made for 4 4ohm speakers with parallel to get 1ohm resistance. Sound is amazing, thanks to my coupling capasitor, 100 000uF/16v. My question is: Do you think my toroid transformer is good for my setup?

Yes it does.

If bigger is definitively better this begs the question, then, why the new Stellar Phono Preamp has a tiny internal psu instead of a large transformer in a separate chassis? 🤔

My wife is agree with you. Nice video And thanks for your time 👌🏼

this simply means one good indicator for a good amp is by its weight

So if I’m reading a spec sheet, how can I determine how big the transformer is compared to another product? Is there a unit of measure that I should pay attention to?

I put a 12lb Mercury output transformer into my Fender Vibrolux Reverb guitar amp, replacing one that was maybe 3lb. It does sound better. I also replaced the 2x10" Jensen speakers w/a 12" Electro Voice PA speaker w/a 20lb ceramic magnet. The amp sounds great (I favor a clean sound) - but the amp is like carrying an anvil to shows now. SO...if I upgrade to a bigger power transformer, more improvement? I might do it

Hello, I do not know decide between amplifier atoll in100 and in80, the in100 has two toroidal transformers of 340VA, it is NOT dual mono, amp is 2x100W thi in80 has one transformer of 340VA ammp is 2x80W both have the same capacitanc about 31000 microF, isnt this small for 2x100W? Which one is supposed to be better by teory?

I agree wth you. The bigger transformer sounds better because it uses bigger diameter wire as R = p l/ A, whr l = the length of the wire, p is ρ is the resistivity of the conductor in Ω.m & A is the cross-sectional of the wire. So the bigger the wire diameter which redulting in bigger A the lower the wire resistance (R). The problem is only it becomes more expensive.

Interesting as l have a Spectron musician MKII class D amp designed by John Ulrick in the mid 2000's I use it to drive my Maggie's as It has tons of watts at all loads but l think what really makes a difference is it's ability to produce 65 amps for 500 milliseconds My Maggie's love all that juice! The amp has a transformer that is 8 inches in diameter and 5 inches thick! The Spectron amp weights in at 54 lbs!

Ok know I'm confused. where talking about a phone pre-amp? isn't the output around 1 volt and in ma's? i totally agree with Z matching and noise shielding. But how big a transformer are we talking about?

Well I am right after rega elex , rotel a11, 12, denon 900hne, musical fidelity m3si. The last two are claiming some "high current" stellar technology at the same time they have the smollest transformers by eye. It is dificult to find out real size. Gues which one has leanest sound. .....I appreciate this video a lot because was not sure with my conclusion. I am angry because the denon hes perfect sound. Its bigger brother 1700 ne has two of the same transformers instead of one and it has only 10 W per channel more which sound promisable. Will this help considerably also to sound weight?, or the transformer has to be bigger?

My 29 Lbs (boat anchor) Crown CT-210 from around 2000 sounds pretty good. I bet a big part of that weight is the power transformer. My ears aren't precision instruments so I'd need to get some other people to hear it. I already know that Crown is a controversial choice that people like to bash, but I have a limited budget.

I wonder is a bigger "capacitance" power supply, or a larger transformers, effect the way DC motor sound/work on CD drives or record players. hmm

I certainly found that a much bigger transformer, (coincidentally also feeding a phono-stage power-supply circuit) vastly improved the sound quality & made the hiss I heard that annoyed me greatly on the smaller transformer feeding the power-supply, almost totally disappear on m.c. gain. I told this to an electrical engineer (my father) at that time who said "it can't possibly make any difference because of the phono-stage"s current requirements" ...but it clearly does. I understand why people theorise to imagine it shouldn't make a difference because of the low-current requirements of the phono-stage & all I could also think was: the larger diameter of the bigger transformer's windings causes less resistance in those windings, enough to hear a substantial difference

idol

What about output transformers? Is bigger better

Actually, a phono preamplifier is using little power and what matters is that it internally has constant DC voltage rails without significant ripple or other noise. Rather, it could be worthwhile to add some capacitors, if there is too much ripple noise present. But a good phono preamplifier has a regulated power supply with very low noise to begin with. A larger transformer that is just over-powered and thus emitting more airborne RF noise (50 or 60Hz) or more common mode current noise (capacitive coupling between the primary and secondary windings) is more harmful than good for something as sensitive as a phono preamp. Of course if the transformer is truly under-powered causing the amp DC voltage power rails to fluctuate, you gotta get a bigger transformer. Perhaps some US$50 China brand preamplifier could have such problem, but then the problem is you got a wrong preamplifier!

Thats what she said........had to do it

Strange result. on a power amp, yes it should help a bit, however on a pre-amp? Assuming the supply can keep the volts up, (not drop out of regulation) then a bigger one should be exactly the same, but you say they were not....

How to Get Much Better Stereo Imaging Recently I assembled used stereo Borberly's headphone amps wth its 2 separate PSU (2 PCB boards) but without the transformers. So it's actually a monoblock. Result: at the beginning I was shocked. Why sound heard expanding. The gap/ distance of sound from one player to next of him/ her becomes longer. I thought thr's something wrong wth the amp. Later I realised tht's the effect of monoblock PSU. Each L & R amp has its own PSU (& its own transformer). I use 50 VA instead of standard 25 or 30 VA. It's more expensive. Next time I'll build my own monoblock amps (just 10 W. It's already very loud if it's fully opened) wth its separated PSU, bigger transformer & bigger caps.

My 2 ATI 2505 amplifiers each have 3Kv Toroidal Transformers, this equals 600v per each of their 5 channels. I think the Transformers are 60+ lbs.

Within reason, maybe. A low power supply output impedance is generally a good thing and will improve performance in some relatively small way. Op-amp circuits largely don't care, some class A circuits are little more sensitive to it. So bigger power trasnformers and larger caps can and do help. That said... the law of diminishing returns DOES come into play, and there's another side to this. You get a power supply with 100,000 uF of capacitance with 80 volt rails, if something in the output stage shorts, there's going to be a not-so-small explosion and the PCB will almost certainly be totaled. If there's a monster transformer to deliver huge power continuously, then you're going to have a fire inside the amplifier. I am of the belief that people who put this sort of power supply in an amplifier have never actually seen this kind of power supply fail, or they wouldn't think it's a good idea. Unless we're talking about an amplifier the size of a Crest 10001, I shouldn't need an arc-flash suit to service your amp. You could add rail fuses (and you should), but then you're sort of defeating the whole point of having a huge low-impedance power supply since the fuse adds some finite amount of impedance.

Paul need to demonstrate live, between two transformer, so no haters out there. same amp, speaker, wires, different transformer.

Great question... Bye!

Complete hypothesis here: What if you designed a power transformer the way you would design a wideband audio transformer but with the ratio needed? Now all that high frequency noise that used to get rejected by the core getting reflected back up into the line causing even more distortion instead gets passed straight thru to the secondary, down through the high speed rectifiers and into the capacitors that are bypassing the main rails. Far less in standing waves can only be good.

One person disliked the video for reason: size does not matter :D hehehe

Paul. How about explaining HOW a larger transformer makes it sound better. Specifically.

It's the same with guitar amps. The bigger transformers of a 100w amp will provide more punch and fullness than a 50w amp.

Another one from Norway without Paul saying how he wants to visit. :(

Hahahahaha. Hate mail for audio! Gold. Yeah we’re a funny bunch. I don’t always agree with your thoughts Paul but love your channel and content. Keep it up!

Transients?

Can't beat a good stiff one (power supply that is).

Yer sr!!

Bigger is better, always. It's just as simple as that.

A power supply can never be “too big.”

More mass = Less hum ?

Haha :) I guess his name is "Jørgen" not, "Jurgen" ;P I always laugh a bit when americans, english etc can't pronounce the letter "Ø" :P We have the letters Æ, Ø, Å after Z in the alphabet. Always funny when trying to pronounce my name too.. :P

I don't know but the one on your 7k dac doesnt. Audible distortion and high noise floor. The 9 dollar apple dongle measured better.

Why not place a "power amp" to the output of the PS? a transistor is cheaper and more compact than a transformer, and will give you the lower impedance.

Always use a transformer with good regulation ! Simple 😆

As an EE student, im going to have to go with mostly NO on the question. If both the transformer and circuits are designed properly, there should be no change in sound when increasing the transformer size. However, a lot of transformers and power supply's are designed to barely meet the requirements, so in that case yes. I for one usually design my power supply's to handle at least 150% the expected peak load.

So that huge transformer in my Carver HR 772 makes it a great receiver

Optimus Prime does

I'll have to refer to the "That's what she said" quote....😁

Paul, if you were talking about a power amp, I might believe you. But a preamp? Not very likely unless it was poorly designed to begin with.

Go big or go home!

Does having a larger amount of gold, transform you into a better person? Current is the factor. If current is vey low, a large mass transformer is detrimental. Magnetism is a balancing act on a thin or heavy wire. Opposites in magnetism do not attract. The same direction of magnetic flow does.

Electrical engineer the signs does not support having a bigger transformer equalling better sound

This sounds crazy :) i use constant current sources in all my preamp stages... 10VA or 1000VA does not matter....

Yup, no magic here just impedance.

Yours is big ... mine is Bigger !!! Yours is small ... mine is Smaller !!! Yours is ... ???

I would caution not to conflate hate with passion.

In 5 -10 years commercial movie cinema's will have speakers that have plastic woofer cones.

No.

The one governing rule of audio equipment is that the older something is, the better it sounds. Conversely, the newer something is, the worse it sounds. All old technology sounds amazing and new inventions sound horrible. In a few hundred years, the latest technology will sound like screeching static. We're lucky that we can still faintly make out the melody of music played on gear made in this modern era.

Yeah headroom. More bottom. Bottom that wasn’t there before so yeah , introduce your own idea of someone else’s song. Yay

These videos are becoming more and more banal. The size of a transformer is not relevant and the question is meaningless. Just design or choose a transformer that meets requirements for the circuit design. What next? Are high frequencies better than low frequencies? In Paul’s anecdote, if there was a huge sound improvement then the original transformer was faulty or not suitable for the job.

that's what "she" said