I even don't like CDs but yesterday I had to test a sony cdp x5000 before putting it up for sale, and I must say it blew me away. Two days before I had the same with a Sansui AU20000. That amp is 50 years old and it is ridiculous how good it sounded back in the day.
I have a Yamaha and a Sony (two houses) CD/DVD spindle that are SACD compliant. Both hold 5 CDs. To my ears they sound great - perhaps a more discerning or young pair of ears would disagree. But the convenience of loading CDs 5 a time (sometimes operas on MP3 so figure 8CDs) as opposed to reloading every one is worth a lot to me. The spindles are feeding good Onkyo receivers and the speakers are good.
Given all the audiophile attention on good standalone DACs, seems Stoopid to lock yourself into the DAC in a disc player. Better way to go is use a Sony Blu-ray player with sacd playback and HDMI dsd ouput and pair with your external DAC of choice. Used, thrift Sony Blu-ray sacd players are less than 10 dollars at thrift, yard sales. Huge number of models to choose from, just check for sacd logo on the outside of f the unit and plug in and play available discs at the store to test. Good DACs buffer and reclock the data, so as long as a good shielded HDMi, coax cable or optical cable is used, bits is bits as a transport. Many Sony blu-ray sacd models have all the outputs, HDMI, coax, toslink, analog and some add 5.1 channel analog with all the others for multichannel sacds, Blu-ray. You have 99.9% of all digital optical audio discs ever made with such a setup, everything but dvd-a mlp tracks though non mlp tracks play (pcm, Dolby digital, dts), the current Sony 4k Blu-ray players handle mlp too
Some DACs have their own clock, so take the CD-transport clock out of the equation. Example HoloAudio May DAC, Berkeley DAC. What may be left is error correction with scratched CDs, but otherwise, any transport with digital out will do, and we can safely ignore jitter concerns. Or burn CD to computer and play from hard drive.
I saw a test over at the knuckleheads of Audio Science Review that showed an optical signal from a cheapo HDMI audio extractor showed less jitter goning into a quality DAC than it had going into a cheap integrated DAC. So the receiving end also seems to have an influence. Maybe some DAC's try to re-clock an incoming TOSlink signal.
Yes, some do, but with I2S connections at least, and maybe HDMI also, the clock of the DAC is the master, not the clock of the transport. That makes a difference. That doesn’t mean that it will sound better though, measuring doesn’t predict how it will sound, just how much it pollutes the signal processing.
@@jmtennapel I'm not sure but I think PS Audio's I2S DAC is an INPUT. So that would mean the clock is coming from the source, or for this discussion the CD transport. You could have an I2S interface where the clock(s) are the output and just the data is the input but I don't think that's how these aftermarket external I2S interfaces work. Also keep in mind that I2S carries three clock signals, MASTER CLOCK, BIT CLOCK, and CHANNEL or LR CLOCK, the fourth signal is the actual audio data stream. Now these three clocks are synchronous to each other, typically counted down from the MASTER clock. I2S does lower jitter. But it also has a cable length limit, which is not usually a problem in home audio systems. But a well designed AES/SPDIF interface, that means both ends, source and DAC, also has inaudible jitter. I agree a lot of consumer gear does not have good SPDIF implementations.
Sigh, heavy compression and EQ to boost audio levels started in the 90s. It was common by the early 2000s. Louder speakers sell better. Brighter TVs sell better, too.
If you have a transport where you can physically access the CD while it's playing you can stop the disc or in some cases literally pick it up, hold it for a second and put it back with no interruption in the audio. Kinda freaks people out sometimes.😋
Lol - also these walkman portable CD-players you could shake for a while before it stopped playing the music. I must say that I miss these players now and then :o)
@@alphaniner3770 Walkman type portable CD player’s OH My: all the rage back then. We use to hang them on CB bungee cords in our trucks so they wouldn’t skip. The player would just swing gently back and forth in our cabover trucks. 👍 there was a cassette adapter for them. I still have mine stored in a box somewhere.😀Yes it will still work after all these years.✅ can’t kill old tech. I think it’s an Awia brand. I don’t need no dam $8,000.00 CD Transport.😊 I have an Awia transport 🤗👍that will outlive any 💰💰💰💰CD transport and don’t need a $1,000.00 Cable for it..😀
@@davidfromamerica1871 first i had a Technics, that couldn't take any shaking, but was a nice player otherwise. Then I had two Sony's that could take a lot of shaking, but the build quality was a bit less.
@@davidfromamerica1871 Actually you can kill it. I had a D5 that worked well for a long time then I sold it to someone who played it sitting on the passenger floor of their lowered, stiffened ricer pickup. It lasted about a month.
i have a Cary 303/300 and it absolutely has its own sound. Better? I don't know, guess it depends on the music genre. Cary put a tubed output into this CD player and tubes def roll off the top end and compress the bottom like tubes do. What I find interesting is rolling tubes gives no change in the sound that I can hear but going from the Burr Brown dac in the Cary to the tube output is always immediately audible. The Cary, in solid state mode, does have more lower mids and bass compared to our bluray player or other old CD players I've had. The Cary is the only CD player that doesn't sound like every other CD player I've had, it has its own sound for sure and everything else sounds the same. Also the Cary has a built in volume control for only its balanced outputs, so I can go direct from the Cary to my Classe or my big power amps and that also has its own sound, unlike other players as well. Have fun everyone!
Hello. I have done a careful test between a laptop with usb to DAC. and a better denon cd plays through the same DAC. An original CD disc and a PCM wav copy. Me and my friend can't hear the difference in an A B test. Yes, if you use RU-vid or spotify, you will hear the difference. Whether you have a computer or an expensive transporter and run through the same DAC. then it is difficult to hear differences!
Your brain has to be able to predict that there's going to be difference based on pattern recognition and the natural gradient between things, otherwise it will only confuse you.
What usually isn't said is that you need superbly well recorded and mastered music, probably on a costly system (minimum 10K for the DAC/amp/loudspeakers) that is set up in a very good way/room and is perfectly volume matched to hear the relatively small (potential) difference. Then A/B testing is inherently flawed too, but in this case that really doesn't matter - your findings simply agree with that in most cases a transport is equal to lossless files from a PC or streamer. I have a very good transport, but with most, if not all, music I really cannot hear any clear difference compared to lossless files. I just like spinning disks, and wanted a machine that would last me at least two decades.
It's single bit, so based on bit storage, no. But high sampling. So depends on duration desired. If you go based on number of samples, PCM is 8 to 32 times higher.
I have not seen the jitter problem in, uff, more than 25 years... The CD player first reads in 120s or so of the CD and then start feeding the data from the buffer to further stages. You can shake the CD player and it will still play "in time". Unless, you shake it for a minute or more...
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez Well, could be, yes. If I recall correctly, one of the primary reasons for jitter, i.e. timing differences basically, is the speed of reading from the CD. As long as everything is prestine, no problems. But once you have scratches, dust, etc., parts have to be reread and the music plays slightly faster than being read for a couple of milliseconds.
That jitter mostly affected portable CD players like walkman etc. I used to use one on my motorcycle and a cheap off brand would jet a jitter but a well designed (also more expensive ) player such as a good Sony Walkman never did skip or sound jittery. This is a different subject than what Paul is referring to
@@Pete.across.the.street Yeah. What I wanted to say is that if you shake your CD player (move it a bit) and the music still continues to play normally, it has some buffer to read the data first in and process from the buffer. Thus, the most likely causes of jitter, differences in rotational speed and rereads of the CD, are eliminated. If it stutters, the data comes directly from the CD without a buffer in-between.
I own a Luxman D-10x CD, SACD, DSD player and I think with many high-end CD players and DACS, the manufacturers are trying to bring the music as close as it was recorded by not just using high quality components, but better circuit design, and yes definitely mitigating jitter and noise. The latter is not easy. Same goes for my former BlueSound node vs my Aurender A30 which is excellent at mitigating jitter and noise- going through my D10-X's DAC makes a HUGE difference. The Aurender wins 20 times over. With an N20 it goes up to 25 times better because it eliminates more noise and has a better clock.
I am a full time electronics technician since 93. It is hard to believe that thus cheap CD player has a crappie sound. But that's the truth & I can't argue with that.
It's one thing for people with money to showcase themselves in front of their associates with a glass of wine, cashmere sweater and hi-end gear, it's another to make listening to great music at home out of reach for true music lovers by bloating the cost of that gear beyond a lifetime of savings. I have a deep emotional attachment to, for eg,. a Mahler symphony... BUT I CAN'T HEAR THE VIOLA PART. So ya, that aggravates me.
Is the buffer in the CD player or in the DAC? I hope to one day get a PS Audio DAC but I couldn't afford the accompanying CD transport so I'm going to use the optical out on my current CD player (Denon CDP500ae).
Here we go again.. It's all down to how good the persons Ears are.. expence does'nt have to come into it to be fare.. Money speaks .. but not to everyone who loves music ..
Love the short videos, often extremely helpful. Was wondering if anybody could advise me on which output would be best to use on a PSAudioCDT. My Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC has a full range of inputs and someone told me that paul McGowan has advised on one of the videos using the I2S.
Genesis Digital Lens - Still makes a difference in my system. If memory serves, this is the "original" digital buffer 20 some odd years ago. A review stated you could burn a copy and it would sound better than the original, for at this point all jitter was removed from the signal. All these years later in still makes a difference, granted my transport is of the same vintage along with the DAC. To cut to the crust of it, good engineering does make a difference.
Paul, the unnamed individual inquired about high-end CD players / transports. He did not ask about "expensive" CD players / transports, as the title of this video conveys. Although quality components will typically cost more than mass produced components, it does not mean that expensive is synonymous with quality. The audio market is awash with expensive components that do not cut the mustard. Decades ago, Radio Shack was selling a CD player that was all the rage, and applauded by reputable reviewers (I do not remember the model). I do recall that it sounded as good or better than CD players that were multiples of its price. By using "expensive" in your title, you have inadvertently given the audio trolls fodder for their snake oil obsessive mantra. Expensive does not determine build quality nor sound quality. It offers better odds at the aforementioned -- but you have to judge each piece of gear on its own merits, regardless of price. Vandersteen's entry level speakers compete with much more expensive speakers. The Aesthetix Calypso pre-amp, that you have praised and use in one of your music rooms is another example. The unknown person that wrote in did not ask about the price. He did not use the word "expensive". He asked about the sound quality of high-end gear.
@@davidfromamerica1871 Not to mention the cost of just hiring some starving musicians to play at your party. Heck, offer free food and wine and they'll be there "for free". "A fool and his money are soon departed."
@@davidfromamerica1871 "Welcome to the World of the Audiophile 😀 Need a $500,000.00 stereo to play a $2.00 CD from a garage sale. Makes perfect sense 😀" Do you say: "Need a $500,000 sport's car, to drive on a public road"? Do you say: "Need a $500,000 yacht, to sail in free waters"? Do you say: "Need a $500,000 home, to eat, sleep, and watch TV"? Nearly everything a middle class person owns is not a need. Even financially burdened people often have more than they need. Freedom is to be able to improve you standard of living, above what you need -- to what you want. For you to attempt to shame people that "want" a $500,000 stereo is envious, controlling, and petty. If you won a $billion lottery, tell me you would not own such a stereo.
@@barney6888 'Not to mention the cost of just hiring some starving musicians to play at your party. Heck, offer free food and wine and they'll be there "for free".' When they can play my favorite songs, by my favorite artists, both living and deceased, and convince me that I am listening to those artists, then I will offer them free food and wine. On second thought, I would never take advantage of people that are downtrodden. You would. Rather than paying those starving musicians a wage that is commensurate with their skill and labor, you choose to screw them over, by throwing them a meal. Shame on you. And the choice between a high-end stereo and hiring musicians is not mutually exclusive. There is no audiophile law that reads: "Upon purchasing a high-end stereo, the party that made the purchase is forbidden to hire live musicians, and shall not do so, under penalty of section X paragraph Y of audiophile criminal law, and will be subject to fine, imprisonment, or both". Please point me to the text of any law that prohibits an affluent person from making both a high-end purchase and hiring a band. Also, list the names of the starving musicians that you hired and paid them with free food and wine. What food did you serve them. What wine did you serve them.
No, a buffer only solves one problem: timing. There are many other problems, especially noise in the electrical circuits, that have to be addressed as well. There are DACs that have buffers in front of them though.
Of course they could be different after the analog conversion. The same distances and positions with two digital total stations aren't always coincident. How are digital numbers converted to a voltage ? Some bad CD players can't even read some used compact discs and correct errors.
