Do Most Artists Lose Money Touring? 

If I'm an artist touring and the only way a venue gets a cut of my merchandise sales is if I get a cut of liquor sales.

In 1971 I saw Led Zeppelin for $6.50. They made money 💰 on album sales. On Friday I am seeing Joe Bonamassa. Ticket cost me $360. It is my first concert in years and probably my last. The internet has destroyed the music industry among other things.

Back in the 70's I played for the London UK Prog Rock band Tallis. Our biggest fan was Elton Johns business manager. He said the fastest way to the top was to ONLY do quality gigs even if you only played once a month and had a day job. BUT it was key to invite, even chase and suck up to the media .If you LOOK big time no one ever questions it. The time between gigs is taken for granted to the idea that you must have been touring or recording. After a few gigs even the booking agents buy into it and you get offered few decent gigs.You can indeed break even but you also can get somewhere, and faster than burning yourself out. If you don't you don't, you aren't in debt and you as a player are accepted on a much higher level and can get your foot in a few doors you never would otherwise. I'm 75 squeaked together enough to buy a condo & still be debt free, :-)

Tour bus? I've never been at that level. It's always been a small car with a trailer for our junk.

Blame Ticketmaster... the fees are STOOOPID high! Pearl Jam fought against it 30 years ago (ish) and it's just gotten worse.

Ticketmaster buying Livenation should NEVER have been allowed...they have a legitimate monopoly on retail ticket sales, and ALSO exclusive contracts with venues AND RESELLERS! Conflict of interest much???

Been playing in original bands for 25 years I figure I have lost 135 grand pursuing art… and enjoyed every minute of it !! And I keep doing it !!! Wouldn’t change a thing

A couple of years ago The NY Times published an interview of Lyle Lovett. In the interview Mr. Lovett discussed the economics of touring, at least for him. He stated that he only made money every fifth show. In other words, he had to do four shows to cover all his expenses then he could pocket some profit on the fifth show and the cycle would start all over again. Tough business.

I know I am an old fogey but I would like to revert back to the old system where a bands puts out an album and then toured to support it. You bought the album and you read the liner notes while you were listening to it to see who played what instrument on what track and you didn’t need a pair of binoculars to read it like you do on a CD. I saw George Thorogood, Journey and The Rolling Stones for $18 in support of “Some Girls”.

I am a bassist in two local bands, one is mostly doctors and our gigs are usually fund raisers or medical grad parties. Expensive hobby mainly. The other band is a jam band, haven't gigged at all since covid. Good stuff guys

@Jonathan & @Baxter Man when Jonathan said "Touring" with the air quotes, and then said "we toured 3 counties", I almost lost it. It brought back memories of our life for a few years there, mostly 2 or 3 nights a week in Hollywood and all over L.A. County. On our 2 "tours" we ended up stuck in Las Cruces NM for weeks at a time on the 1st one and 3 mos. on the 2nd one just waiting to get a gig that were supposed to be booked already. I suspect the manager just wanted us out of town. There's more to the story of course but I'll leave it at "and that was the last time ever did that, with them" lol

Why don't touring musicians ever talk about this stuff? My theory is that it's not cool to talk about tour economics, so they don't.

That damn Ticketmaster monopoly is not making things any better. I saw Prince on his love sexy tour for $45. I have a hard time justifying paying $450 to see anybody

$100 plus tickets, $20 for parking, $30 for gas always leaves me with $0 for $50 shirts and $50 posters. It cost my kid and I around $300+ for a local concert and closer to $500+ for out of town concerts. Someone is making money at the civic centers and larger venues for certain. The 10 big legacy names make bread. Everyone else…? 🤷🏼‍♂️

Has the "show" side of a concert become too big? We may get back to focusing on the music.

Yes... sadly. More than ever today. It was never home taping that was going to kill music - it took a million distractions and the birth of online pop culture to kill it off. Not that music will not be made and heard still. It's just going to be a very select few that can make it professionally and without struggling, while the rest will be made by mad committed players and writers who HAVE to make music as, without it and without performing, our souls are empty. Everythings changed and nothing has changed. Money at the top, crumbs at the bottom but still the rock and roll will keep coming :)

I played three or four nights a week in the '70s and '80s for $50- $100 a night. Sounds like chump change but in 2022 money, that's $302 -$603. Small potatoes to some maybe but to a young man living in Mendocino growing weed on the side, it was more than enough to keep the VW bus running and buy $250 vintage Strats...

I feel sorry for acts that are suffering touring, but in any business you have to think: ‘This is the product or service I’m selling. Not enough people are buying it from me to make a living from after costs’. It could be the economy, it could be you’re competing in a over saturated market, or it could be the product you’re offering isn’t to the taste of your customer. It may be your dream, but without a demand big enough you have to accept it can’t just be your career. It can be a side hustle, but you may need another job.

TanktheTech says that its 20,000 a week now for a tour bus. Cha Ching!!!

I think while individual concerts are dead, festivals are still big mainly because you can either pay $250 for a cheap seat for a two hour show plus parking, or you can pay the same price for a three day festival to see tons of bands, and do all the side stuff.

Just saw Jane's Addiction and Smashing Pumpkins last week and happily (?!) spent the $70 (Canadian, eh!) for the JA long sleeve shirt 'cause I assume it goes to the band...but hearing that the venue might be taking a cut of that?! F' the venue when they charge $12 for flat warm domestic beer! BTW....Jane's Addiction was awesome with Troy on guitar!!

I did a "tour" with a band a few months ago. I never really went that far out of state to play gigs before. I had fun, but would have had a better time just sitting at home with the family, a beer, and a cigar. I probably ended up with 100.00 in my pocket after expenses.

Great video! I felt like I was in the room having the conversation. I totally agree that ticket prices are just too costly for many folks. It may be better for some artists to do one off shows and then sell merch for them. It feels like the era of world tours is over unfortunately,

Great episode!

The entire music industry has been dismantled due to the internet and the digital revolution, the whole infrastructure of the 90s and earlier is gone, touring relied on that to sell tickets so yes of course they lose money. You have to be John Mayer to make money at touring.

When I was touring as a monitor engineer I did an extensive tour with a play. Every town (usually for a week) I had my own suite at the nicest hotel in town! I came home with way less $ than I had thought, ha.

I've noticed here in the PNW larger bands have stopped making the trip up from LA, I'm kind of ok with this because its breeding a more friendly environment around music in the area (the "grunge years" left a bad taste and lingering odor) More bands are willing to work together and even explore multiple genre's on one bill... its making it fun again.

360 deals are the nail in your profit to most people who signed them. Crazy times…

Ticket prices have become so crazy. Blame it on the promoter, not the artist. Yes, the artist is making money, as they should. It's the promoter that sets the prices. Look at the disaster with Taylor Swift ticket sales. It's all on the promoter.

Ani Difranco sang/said 'people used to make records, as in a record of an event, the event of people playing music in a room. Now it's cross marketed about guns or shoes' or something to that effect. Maybe it's ok for musicians to be forced to play live events to be successful.

Is Baxter wearing one of Jonathan's shirts? It looks a size and half big on Baxter 😁

Plenty of experience on this subject!!! Well done guys I agree with you both on all fronts!!! 🎶🤘🎸

cube vans and hammocks....and coolers...hard work...

“….based my life on Cole Trickle.” This weeks fluid in schnozz moment. Thanks fellas.

You lose money from all 360 degrees but you make it up on volume! Cheers Casino!!

Concerts are expensive but not as bad as the fees!! And this is why I go to music festivals, like Coachella, to see a variety of artists over the weekend while on a drug and beer binge 🎉

What a fantastic video

“Every night is Saturday night” no from my own experience every morning is Monday morning. I am actually a licensed cdl driver with a passenger endorsement so I can drive the tour bus but being on a tour and being they guy that can’t party or “indulge” in the things that being a live band on tour can bring just sucks. I have decided I’m not a band guy but even doing a regional multi city tour has some benefits ….Back in the eighties it was a shit ton of fun but just doing the local shit and playing night after night carrying and setting up your own shit and then getting up and doing the show was a days work so yes it’s a party but the next morning it’s all work and all real and then it’s a party. As a young man I could live that as an old man it sounds a lot like hell because it’s not the eighties anymore and I’m not a in shape guy with great hair.

I saw Smashing Pumpkins and opening was Noel Gallaher's Flying Circus a few years ago... only half the venue was sold. Grass general admission was closed. Back seat rows were closed. Prices were reasonable. Shocking. The show was "okay". It was an outdoor amphitheater.

“Lose”, guys.

seems to have come back to Jerry Garcia's idea of (loose sum) "give the music away and people will pay to see/listen to you perform". it does matter as far as label vs indie but, it has always been about exposure and networking. my take away... make great music, be professional, accept that it IS a business trip and, hire (a) Peter Grant if you req a manager. Good topic. I think there should be a convo within a band about the how and purpose prior to going on the road.

I’ll always go see bands at Red Rocks, the venue alone makes it worth it, but my days of going to see specific bands are over. I’m going to see Eric Johnson at the Paramount Theater, but it looks like the Foo Fighters will have been my very last big name band on tour.

I stopped going to concerts when the ticket prices got more than $10. As a teen the average ticket price in SF Bay Area was $3.75 to see Hendrix, Cream, Jeff Beck w/ Rod Stewart, the Dead, Airplane, all the bands of the late 60's. As a teen I could dig up a few bucks, but as prices climbed it got out of my reach because I was just a working stiff/gigging musician. Recently some friends of mine paid over $500 for a ticket to see some famous band (can't remember who) and I choked when I heard that. Guess I'm outta touch.

I saw a well known virtuoso rock guitarist who had an opening act on a Sunday night in a small club and it seemed like 30 people showed up. Still gave it 100% but had to lose money that night. Felt bad for him and the band.

I kept running into this 'I don't know if I'll ever come back to this city' syndrome where I'd go out. every night. and it was never not costly.

Interesting video. I rember years ago the band Alabama stoped doing the June jam because the cost of doing the show was so much.their was no profit left for the the benefit, By the way is google actually doing any thing about scamers. So frustrating that with every comment you get a notice. Can't they do some thing about copy right infringement, they are using your logo now.

It’s tough to make money but getting all the money from Merch helps

What about the maintenance of your gears. Replacing strings, buying gears and pedals. Guitars, drums, bass, and other musicals instruments.

can most guitar retailers spell?

It’s really hard to pay your bills if you’re a musician. I feel like it always has been. Most of the bands that tour nowadays have to rely heavily on merch sales otherwise they’d be bankrupt after 3 shows.

I saw that there's a shortage of tour buses right now, and they cost more than twice what they used to.

Was that Billy Corgan @ 7:04?

In 1974 or 1975, I saw the Marshall Tucker Band (original lineup), Jimmy Buffet and Richie Furay for $5........fast forward to 1990 and I paid $30 to see Paul McCartney and I thought that was expensive. Other than to see friends of mine play locally, I haven't been to a music venue in years. You pay out the ass and you can't hear the music anyway because you always wind up sitting next to some fool who talks all night.

You whine some and you loose some I guess.. 🤣🤣..just kidding around..love you guys

After this past year I think I’ve got to see all the bands I wanted to classic rock wise from McCartney to the Stones to David Gilmour RUSH Genesis and even Elton John I’ve seen just about everyone but AC/DC and after watching Brian play the Taylor Tribute show I think I’m good with that anyway lol

I wanted to go see Joe Bonamassa. The cheapest ticket was $500; the floor tickets were $1250. He and his crew should get paid very well, but that pricing is an insult to me. I've seen countless bands at that theatre for a fraction of that cost. In fact, I saw Alison Krause and Union Station there for $40 - killer amazing performance!

Thanks to the US Congress for unanimously voting to give rights owned by rights holders for near zero cost to the streaming companies, who are all bleeding red and mathematically will never turn a profit. Terrible state of affairs. Talk about the price fixing Music Modernization Act !! Evil evil evil!

Saw everclear last week in Southampton, and Alexis said they lose money on the tour, but he 'gets to play rock and roll with his buddy's" and that's worth it

The first time I got on a tour I left with 40 bucks a guitar and a couple amps. I came home four months later with 40 bucks two guitars and the same amps. Back in the 80s 😂.

They downlaod so much for free now

It always circles back to Oasis. Solid content, boys

Ticketmaster makes the money…

wanted the king buzzo photo book sold during the last tour (as of Nov. 22) but I did not bring enough cash to the venue. Based on the retail value of the gear he put onstage and then didn't even touch I think he's doing just fine but let no one suggest that he's not putting in the time and effort.

Speaking of merch and shirts, can you PLEASE add/offer 3XL and 4XL Casino t-shirts? Thanks.

Bus, driver,trailer, sound eng, monitor eng, lighting guy, tour manager, booking agent, merch sales person, insurance, enough gear, drum tech, guitar tech, bass.........the list goes on. Or worse.....you signed a 360 deal.

The short answer is YES. Anyone who was so stupid as to sign a 360 deal will make more money selling Amway.

I’m trying to bud my daughter Taylor Swift tickets for Atlanta. Ticket Master site crashed because of it. If Ed Sheeran makes up 89% ole Tay Tay and the swiftys make the rest. 200 for nose bleed seats???? We need more Pearl Jam’s to fight these atrocities…… 🤔🤨

What did a band make per CD sold ten years ago verses what they make per album downloaded from say, Spotify? Anyone know?

Keef said the stones didn't make money until the last half of the tour. The expenses were that high.

Is it true that the bands get blocks of tickets that they drop into the resale market just like all the legal scalpers?

Plenty of whinging about costs, but what are the profit margins? Mid level touring artist. 1000 tickets per show. $30 ticket. no light show crap just playing. BS that they do not make money. So the complaint is the margin of profit.

You guys love each other great friendship buy each other a steak for the holidays! Love you guys!

I will not pay $100 per ticket to see the new artists.

For a different, more "grass roots" perspective, have you seen Adam Neely's take on this subject? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3qXLYtvbIOg.html

Talking about F1. Max Verstappen(redbull) refused to let his Partner pass Sergio Perez(redbull). Max has already clenched the F1 champion title but his partner is in a battle for second points wise against a Ferrari driver. If Max would have let Sergio pass, Sergio would have been up on points against Ferrari instead he is now tied with Ferrari. They mentioned afterwards it is because Max was worried if he let Sergio pass he wouldn't have been able to block the car behind him which would have hurt the team more. I don't buy it though If he is the F1 Champion last year and this year he should be a good enough driver to block and still make moves. the redbull car this year is blowing people out of the water so he easily could have defended after the Sergio pass. Max just also said some stuff on the race radio. its not looking good for team chemistry in redbull but Max is like the kid that is just gonna take his ball and go home because people aren't playing the way he want to play.

Kind of surprised that Lyle had so much trouble with making a profit. Coming from him you know its true though.

Does anyone remember Fugazi?

Go ask Kid Rock about ticket prices and how to approach that whole buls!7 over the top tickets prices!!!👌🏻👌🏻👊🏻 But hey nowadays most of the good real artists are too real for the next generation!!! American music generally is the worst of the lot! The country thing still kicks but main stream is very very KAK!

I’m Bob; a sleepover sounds fun

The music industry has shot itself in the foot. The ticket prices are stupid. The price by demand scheme is a way of screwing buyers. I get a ticket first and pay one price. Next guy pays more for the same ticket. That would piss off anybody. I would love to go to shows, but I cannot justify the ticket prices in my brain. Plus the hassle and the drunk before the show humanity.

The business model flipped ages ago. If you're big enough, you release new content to 'justify' the tour, you don't tour to support sales of the content. The old money trail is, for the most part, gone

Dude 3 county tours...made me laugh we be 60-70yr young punk rockers. Totally relatable w/respect SKULBURGER yt

You mentioned Butch from the Allman Brothers, Butch died because he couldn't afford the house anymore

Phish, one of the anomalies. Make the vast majority of money from touring. Hardly sell records. Phans!

Who won a gibson🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 woop woop ha ha

$500 to see Oasis? Gross!

Maybe I’m naive, but if a show ‘breaks even’ couldn’t the artist just add another 5 bucks on each ticket to ensure profitability? IE. Say a mid range band plays a 1800 seater, charges 40.00 a ticket and break even, why not just make tickets 45.00, that’s an extra 7200 that the performers can keep for profit

Loose money? Lose in English?

I didn’t realize even who oasis was lol. I know they sing wonderwall but I don’t quite see how they would have high concert prices? They aren’t exactly hugely popular but then I am primarily country and more rock like matchbox 20 type music. Eagles. Etc. I agree 100 percent that Garth Brooks is just an amazing tour. George strait and Alan Jackson and Luke combs etc. my point isn’t to put oasis down because to each his own but I didn’t think of them as an expensive concert to go see when most people haven’t even heard of them. Sorry I’m just thinking out loud. You guys are awesome and I look forward to every morning watching your videos here. Thank you 😊

Def not lol

Losing money=not making 10 bilion per year.

Taylor Swift ain't having that problem matter of fact she's been crashing Ticketmaster left and right people are getting pissed Lol

wow 15min of a whole lot of nothing talk.

You've just gotta keep your overhead low. You don't need 10 people in the band and a hundred man crew and the new bus and video screens and towering bullshit on stage. When I was doing my solo thing, I could put a girl, a couple guitars, an amp and a bunch of merch in my truck and go out opening for a bigger artist. I would come back from 3 or 4 dates with 12 or 1500 bucks. And I was nobody. Playing 45 minute sets of original songs. You just have to be punk rock about it. At any level.

F1 fuss explanation: There were a few events in the Brazil GP between teammates. The one causing all the fuss on the webs is the refusal of Max Verstappen (current world champ, already wrapped up). Sergio Perez(Checo), Max's teammate still has a chane to get second in the championship. These placings have MAJOR financial implications for the drivers and teams in F1 revenue sharing. Max was behind Checo and Red Bull asked Checo to let Max by with the intent of passing the car in front of Checo to take points away from them. BUT, if he couldn't get passed the driver in front he was to give the position back to Checo to maximize his points. Max did not do that and also had a selfish tantrum on the radio about it that made his bosses look like they're his bitch. And they are, while Max is a... not nice guy he's also probably the most talented driver on the grid or in the world. If Red Bull finishes with the drivers 1-2 in the standings it means millions more for the team - funding salaries for hundreds of employees and all sorts of stuff. Max has secured the #1 position in dominant fashion, Checo still needs points to do so. Max had a reason apparently and feels his reason is more important than the team and did not let Checo by. Don't ask him to do it again. He's a dick. Amazing driver, but a dick.

Grammer nazis

bros. literally NOBODY benefits from you talking about artists that are backed by big labels

If you lose money touring - that is your own damn fault.... you MAKE money touring. If you are losing money your own production is too expensive or you are travelling too far and too heavy.