THIS IS, HANDS DOWN, THE COOLEST RU-vid CHANNEL. Everything ive ever seen on this channel is very informative, fun, organized, easy to digest, scientific, and horribly interesting to the point its hard to walk away.
I agree. As a carpenter that has used mostly all of these, he is correct with his outcome. I like that I tests each thing several times because sometimes things work better in different parts of the wood. It's just the way it works. I'm guessing it has to do with tighter grain or next to a knot in the wood. That nail will never come out. We'll not without tons of persuasion lol
Definitely need this test. Nails are designed for shear strength where screws are designed for tensile strength. I screw will always beat a nail in the test you conducted.
Whenever I see a Project Farm thumbnail, I immediately think, how would I real-world-test this product. Then I say, Not A Clue so I’d better see how Todd does it. EVERY Project Farm video, even the ones for items I’m never going to use, are so informative and entertaining and ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC, you just have to watch. THANKS TODD!!! And thanks to Mrs. Project Farm for allowing you to spend 23 hours a day working on experiments for us!!
@@ProjectFarm Have you done a test to see which self tapping screws tap the best without destroying the screw end or the hex head on top. Also how thick the metal can be before they will not self tap?
You should probably note nails are primarily used for SHEAR (lateral force) strength and screws are for COMPRESSIVE (holding) strength. With lateral loads like framing weight, you use nails. For mounting drywall or decking, you use screws.
Screws can take shear loads too and, considering how cheap they are these days and how good cordless screwdrivers have become, they're being used for more and more applications.
This is a neat test, but as someone who worked in the collated power fastening business for several years I think there is something worth noting. I worked for SENCO, and sold lots of collated fastening products including nails and screws. I think it's worth stating that while screws have incredible holding power, there is a reason they are not used for framing. Drywall screws do NOT do well in event of catastrophic failure such as storm damage or violent lateral twist (shearing). You should not build a house or anything structural with drywall screws, they will snap very quickly if any lateral force is applied to the beams. Yes, they do make screws that are designed for framing but you should NOT substitute drywall or general purpose screws for a real framing nail. Great channel by the way, fun stuff. LOL - looks like others commented same as I did.. Shear value, important to note!
As a hardware store employee and formerly lumber yard sales guy, the galvanized nails are likely common nails. These are thicker than the same named size in coated sinkers; sinkers are also slightly shorter than their name in pennies. I don't know whether the first uncoated nails were also common or box nails, the latter of which are thinner than the same named size of common nails. James :)
I never understand the thumb down people, you are not forced to watch. By far Project Farm channel is the most honest straight forward information you will find on you tube. What is there to dislike. He even asks for constructive criticism and ideas. Clearly these videos are a lot of work and money. No need to dislike just click onto something else.
Not me bro, I used to do a little non-office work and pulled many nails out, my next door neighbor used to own a few apartment buildings (now he is passed away), but he taught me a ton, and his father used to own a construction company. Most people called him Dr. Mott, (psychology) but to me, he will always be TJ. take care........
Dry wall screws don't like sideways force, they are quite brittle. Although that may in part be due to the fact that the shaft on drywall screws tends to be thinner than on other screws.
Amazing job on this test. You helped me feel better about the investment I made in a 10 x 20 shed. I wanted it to hold together in case we got a strong west wind. So even though code didn't require it, I built it on 16 inch centers and I used torx screws all around. That allowed me to build it without a lot of pounding and the screws really locked that thing together tight. I had a really useful tool my son bought me. It is a battery powered drill with a removable chuck. When you remove the quick release chuck there is a 1/4 inch hex under there that can hold a short tool tip. I put a short #25 torx in there so I could use just one tool. Where I had to fasten at an angle, I would drill a pilot hole, remove the chuck, and then run the screw in with the torx tip. It worked very well for that type application. The chuck fit in my tool pouch when not needed. Seeing your demonstration helped me justify the extra cost of the screws. I chose the torx because I have had too many phillips strip out, so it is only torx for me from now on.
I gotta say. I really like how scientific of an approach you try to bring. Answering the questions that nobody else is taking the time to answer. I appreciate it.
@@ProjectFarm Thank you for accepting the challenge! Could you include a couple varying weight loads of the EZ anchor Twist Locks? They seem to hold up better than anything else on the shelf from the big box stores. Really interested how they hold up compared to "rated" performance. Definitely look forward to the test & Thank you for your continued efforts!
This dude is top notch. The topics, the flow, the quality, the pace, the clarity. I can literally watch a video 10x in a row and still be impressed and learn.
Great video agreed, but it did get a little repetitive. Would've been better to show just one example of each, and then a chart at the end showing the data.
@@denisl2760: "but it did get a little repetitive. Would've been better to show just one example of each, and then a chart at the end showing the data" Fair point, but I actually enjoyed seeing each one. For me, it made the whole test more believable. I don't doubt Project Farm in the least, and the reason for that is due to the degree of effort put forth in his testing. If the results charts were shown right after an example, then followed by the actual footage, I would still have watched the entire video. It really give me that satisfaction that the test is complete as stated. Otherwise, I have to interrupt what is in the chart with a little more effort. Hearing a description of the results while showing a chart still does not compare to seeing the entire thing. Also, consider that an example followed by the chart would be harder to understand for non-English speaking viewers, and the same for those that have hearing problems. Project Farm always makes videos that cover a decent spread of products that are being tested, rather than leaving out a whole lot of them. Still due to the variety of products, there will be some good suggestions of others that could have been tested. All good points. Also notice that each segment was edited to show just the meat of the test. Things go swiftly but with the visual aid of showing it, everything is easy to understand. There is never any wasted "fluff" in the videos. I wish more RU-vid testing videos by others were as fine tuned. As you can see from the comments, there have been several suggestions of how the tests could have been done differently. None of those imply Project Farm is not trustworthy either, but they do show that a different type of test could have been made. Seeing the video of each test the way it was performed gives me that satisfaction of understanding exactly what was done. For example, seeing the screws tearing up wood when removed adds to understanding what is happening. A chart could never do the same in these instances. I don't disagree with you, and I think a lot of people might even prefer your shortened method, but for some of us (at least me), I am completely satisfied with how it was done. If a shortened method is preferred by the majority, it will surely be reflected in the comments.
Actually those cheap transparent packaging tape 📦 could be an idea. Tensile Adhesion, shearing adhesion, tension rupture test, puncture or nick failure test, full wrap test vs side to side test. Just thinking about it open a whole Pandora box 📦 of rigging apparatus
Test shear strength of those nails vs. those screws. Obviously you know there are different applications but it would be nice to see the numbers. Nails are best when flexibility i needed and screws when holding power is required.
When it comes to shear strength the nails will be the best. Now a comparison between nail types would be great. Screws are not great when it comes to shearing as that is not what they are intended for.
@@ProjectFarm Great point! As a drywaller and carpenter for 20+ years, drywall screws have very little lateral shear strength versus something like a joist hanger nail. Lateral strength might be a nice test for next time!!
Very good video! I felt the spiral shank may do much better in a real life use situation. The single nail was allowed to spin in the test. I feel like the pulling force of two boards nailed together with a spiral shank would be much greater since the first board would keep the nail from spinning. Pulling a spiral straight from the wood without it turning seems like a very strong nail. Any thoughts?
Why would the upper board stop the nail from spinning? The nail was driven through that board the same as it was into the lower board. Both have a spiral path carved through them, and the nail will follow that spiral path on its way out.
@@mikeappleby5687"The upper board" would not spin because you would put at least 2 nails in it, unlike in this test, where one can clearly see the upper part of the testing-apparatus twisting the singel nail out, along with it's pulling power. For a better testing methodology (for that spiral nail specifically) it would be better to have something block the twisting motion on that puller. Maybe som vertical bars, stopping the lateral motion.
Yea but remember, especially deck screws lost grip because the wood couldn't handle the force. If your ceiling material is strong enough, you can hang 4 cars with 1 screw.
Pre-drilling actually increases the surface holding area, unless the screw is self-tapping the wood fibers will split apart and there'll only be the grain in one direction touching the screw. Deck screws should have a notch in the end to make them easier to screw in, so drilling is pointless.
And equally, most nails should be hammered at an angle on framing to have the attached piece naturally get pulled inward by the forces exerted on it based on the angle of the nails entry
I agree and was going to say something if someone hadn't. I was removing spiral nails from pallets for repurposing and holy mother of pearl those things are beasts.
I agree that the spiral galvanized nail would have held much better if the pulling jig had not been allowed to twist. I also agree that when framing with 16d cement coated sinkers that are 3 and 1/2 inches long and when you drive them fully through to attach one 2x? to another you would have a full 2 inches embedded into the receiving 2x?, or as you stated they would be driven at an angle to maximize their holding strength. Another point to take into consideration is the grain structure of the wood the nail is being driven into that would greatly affect its holding strength.
look at load calculations. This is what he does not do. Beams can not be built with screws because of shear strength. Bend a screw over and it breaks. Nails bend and have to be bent back and forth several times before even thinking about breaking. Screws have great power in one direction and zero strength in the other. Nail have strength in both. Beams built with screws will fail and no insurance in the work would pay for it. I am a contractor and have to deal with load calculations daily. screws have thier place but you can not say they are better than nails. Each has their place and function in which they exceed expectations. I could redo these tests with variations and make it so you never want to use screws again. He needs to get his facts straight before causing someone to use the wrong tool for the job.
Warped Perception, That's a terrific recommendation! By the way, I recommend your channel to everyone! I'm looking forward to your next video! Thanks again!
@@ProjectFarm thanks, I also recommend your channel to every gearhead I know. Your are literally bringing back the honest, raw reviews consumer reports used to do back in the 80's, it's very much needed.
The spiral and ribbed nails wil also be incredibly strong after sitting for a while, especially in a wet enviroment. the wood grows back into the nail and really holds it in place. I've had problems with pulling them out and had to just cut them instead...
I would love to see how the Paslode tetraGRIP nail compares in pullout. That's the nail that Renax the man is describing above. A specialty sub-floor nail.
Doug, Thank you very much! By the way, that was a terrific video you published yesterday on removing a stuck key from a deadbolt! That knowledge will come in handy! Thanks again
I love this channel. Your tests are always so creative and accurate. I have watched multiple videos of yours everyday for a while now. Even watched a few twice. Just found this channel a week or two ago. Awesome job man! Love it
@@Shadow_Hawk_Streaming There are two methods of making galvanized nails (and screws). Th e better way is "hot dipped", in which the nails were actually dipped in molten zinc. They were extremely rough and covered with warts, which did contributed greatly to their holding power. Nowadays it's hard to find anything but "electro-galvanized", which is merely a thin smooth coating (not unlike the "smooth candy coating" on M&M Peanuts) with relatively little holding power. I'd like to see him compare the two types.
@@fearlesscrusader I work in steel industry and we now have what’s called ZAM galvanized metal and it’s not a galvanized coating but rather blended into the metal itself.
Ooo, so sorry, your pulling of the spiral shank, ardox, they need to be tested without the twist being allowed to unwind. they do offer HUGE resistance when not allowed to unwind.
Spot on. The spiral nail's holding power is achieved when it is driven through two thicknesses of wood. The spiral prevents the two pieces of wood from separating. If you've ever demo'd a deck or dock assembled with these, you'll know their joins are almost as difficult as screws to pry apart.
@@hotfudgemoney correct. I hope you understood that i was saying the TEST was without value in measuring holding power because it was twisting when coming out. In real world use, ardox nails are a bugger to pull out because they do not unwind.
I understand the physical property you are talking about, but is the pull force much greater than the galvanized nail? How much MORE force could be used? As he said in the video, used in a hardwood (as they're designed for) they'd probably take much more force. Very interested in the pull force required in a test with two pieces of wood!
Wish you had used a square cut nail just to see the difference from old-style nails. Also I would nail two 2x4 together. Then pull them apart at the wood. Showing more of a real-world stress test.
As I recall, Mythbusters did a test, and surprisingly, the square cut nail wasn't as good as a conventional round nail. I think it's because they were tapered, and just simply crushed the wood around them, or split the wood, because they simply displaced too much wood.(too fat)
Great video. I learned a lot from it. I've done professional remodeling for over twenty years, and 2 1/2" star drive deck screws have become my go-to for just about everything. I can use them indoors or outdoors, and in decks to everything else. The best part about the star drive is the heads don't strip under heavy load. And they're perfect for temporary holds were you want to take things apart again. Their versatility makes them worth every penny. When I need a shorter screw, I still use drywall screws that are 1 5/8". They're cheap and short enough the heads don't strip out under load. And on small projects they have better holding power than nails. For those occasions where a hammer driven 16 (or 8) penny nail is called for, I keep coated sinkers on hand. I've always had better success with them than common nails. Finally, I still use my nail gun for basic framing projects. It's cheaper and faster than screws and they work.
@@ProjectFarm It'd be cool to test the spax screws in a followup video. They're a little pricer than drywall, but the self drilling and the hold seem to be top notch, and they're cheaper than those fancy "decking" screws, at least around my neck of the woods. Also probably worth mentioning that the 'decking' screws you showed are way, way overkill for decking.
@Dave Gill I said I use nails where applicable. Why ignore what I said? For many jobs the shear strength of screws is sufficient and their holding strength is the primary importance. I'm sure one can misuse star drive screws. But where I've used them, I've never had one subsequently shear off.
First, fantastic video as always. I'm extremely surprised how much difference the coatings made on the nails. Watching the spiral nail segment, it made me think it might be a more accurate test to actually have the fasteners secure two pieces of wood together. Two 2X4 boards in a cross shape for example. Then test the force to pull the pieces of wood apart. That way the spiral nail couldn't rotate as easily. I don't think you need to retest or anything, as it would mostly affect spiral nail. It would also be interesting to see all the fasteners tested on harder and pressure treated wood, though obviously many are not meant for it. Standard wood screws, aluminum nails, stainless nails, and silicon bronze fasteners would all be interesting to see tested. I'm sure there is basically an endless amount of hardware you could test though. I definitely feel more informed after watching. Plus, as usual, I ended up researching related topics for a while because of the video. Thanks a lot!
Awesome to see. I knew I loved those deck screws for a reason. I always felt like they gripped much more aggressively than other options & this proves it.
Would LOVE to see how Harbor Freight drill bits last compared to name brands. My HF bits are good for a half dozen holes and then dull. great that you have more selection to continue the job.
Just thought of a idea for a video . High heat paints or flame proof coatings , stove paint. Wich is best on exhaust or other applications . As always love the videos keep up the great work!
Flat Black paint, because it has more surface area to cool the exhaust, at least that's my experience when rubbing my leg against my YZ250 exhaust pipe. yaaaa ouch eeee..... (p.s. I dont think the paint chemical make-up would do anything for heat dissipation unless it had liquid ceramic in it). .. . . ..
Andy P There’s a lot of variation in heat resistant paints including thermal conductivity, emmissivity, as well as the thermal stability of the paint vehicle. There’s a lot of variation in heat stability of polymers as well as the use of inorganic vehicle. I think this could be a very interesting video. BTW, agree on flat black having high thermal dissipation rate.
Great video as usual. Thank you! One thing I noticed. The galvanized spiral shank test. The jig turned allowing the nail to "unscrew" itself from the wood. I believe if the screws had been pulled straight up without the jig and the nail rotating the nail would have had a lot more holding power. One of the reasons they hold better is because as they are pounded in they act almost like a screw, twisting into the wood. Having tried to remove those type of nails from deck boards I know they hold better than a smooth shank nail. They are a pain to pull out.
@@thehoff3189 well i think its a good idea. I do a lot of work and gloves are needed if you dont want your hands sliced apart from moving heavy materials. Gloves dont last more then an hour where i work i have tried all kinds. Right now i just use some sort of wrap material that atleast last a day or so
@@ToWhom I would imagine that having a small pilot hole (PH) wouldn't affect the structure of the wood fibers the same way just screwing it without a PH would. Since with a PH, the screw doesn't have to drill its way in. I've notice it makes a difference on hold down strength, especially when you don't want to have a screw strip out the wood.
@Rick Sanchez lol Yer right about that one. Sometimes I forget how I am and how the rest of the world seems to be. I'm quite "not normal" compared to them. What was normal 30 years ago isn't even thought of today...
I've been in the construction and building random things industry my whole life. Turns out, for the last twenty years or so I've been ignorant. I sure learned a lot with this video! Thanks, and keep them coming!
Can you do what’s the best type of faster head? Flat, Torx, Robertson, Phillips, Allen, Hex or Square, what’s the most likely to strip, cam out, what’s best after lengthy periods of corrosion?
@@ItsMrAssholeToYou No they aren't im talking hex head found on a bolt, the inverse to an allen, the same way a square head is an inverse to a Robertson.
@@Skyfighter64 never had anything to do with them, but might as well add them to the suggestion list along with the 5 point secuirty torx, and 12 point bolt heads
Great to know! I use the decking screws for all my projects just because of the T-25 head, head and shoulders above the phillips head of the drywall screws.
@Derek Stairs: >"Phillips ..., I don't know how they ever became a thing" Because P.L.Robertson (Canadian) refused to license the design to Henry Ford (U.S.). Mr. Ford had already discovered a time savings in production, but when Robertson declined the licensing, Ford went ahead with Phillips screws, which made them immensely popular, in spite of them not being what he wanted. In fairness to Mr. Robertson, he supposedly had just went through a significant issue with licensing the design to an English company, when the owner caused the company to fail, so he could purchase the rights they had at a reduced price, avoiding the initial license agreement. Robertson spent a small bundle to get the rights back in this total control. You can imagine his concern with licensing to Henry Ford, who already had a reputation of doing some shady business practices himself.
This youtube channel is awesome. You put SO much effort into informing the average consumer. And you don't just make your videos over 10 mins for ad revenue! You need more subs.
An old carpenter once told me that rusty nails were the best for framing houses. Was he right? Thanks for All your great videos and please keep them coming.
Good thing I keep the old nails and screws from the stuff I take apart, from time to time I get to re-use them. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
Thanks for the test! I would recommend a testing of screws for concrete wall (typical home wall), it is quite useful for many home people as they usually put something on their home wall using screws... It can be a lateral test or shear test...
I was told drywall screws are designed to snap off so that if they won't go in fully because they hit something, they will snap off and not damage the drywall.
thats because screws are made of hard metal and nails of soft metal... So hard metals have much higher strength, but it breaks when it fails. Where as Soft metal will Bend. Think of a Cast Iron Pan vs a Spoon as far as types of metal. You'd prefer a spoon to be soft metal so it doesn't break off when eating., Where as a frying pan, you'd prefer hard metal for when you'd drop it, it won't have a permanent Dent in the metal deforming it.... Application
@@stevelovesgod Just last Friday I had a broken skid at work. It had a lot of 1.25" long screws so I decided to recover them. Half of them turned out to be bent, circa 30% snapped and the rest usable so things aren't always so predictable. Another reason why screws snap is a lot of stress risers on their threaded section.
It would be interesting to find out. I suspect that the screw nail does not actually twist cleanly all the way down, through two pieces of timber, as you seem to suggest.. when first hammered in. Essentially making the same situation as an undersized both in a tapped hole. Only a test would confirm.
Great video regarding the hold of fasteners in tension. Fasteners that must resist shear forces is a whole different story. The best deck screw is NOT acceptable for joist hangers, rafter ties or other Simpson type connectors. Simpson joist hanger nails are number gauged and specifically designed to have strength in shear. Beware all DIYers. There are NO acceptable substitutes.
It's crazy to think that you could, in theory, hang a small car from 3 deck screws...in soft wood. I'd love to see how much force a deck screw could take in a hardwood.
Not really related, but I just want to add I'm starting to use "hypothetically" in place of "in theory" because of how many Goddang idiots out there trash the Theory of Relativity or Quantum Theory because they're "just theories" and it would be so gratifying to take that argument away from them.
Yep ... it takes more time, but I use structural deck screws for all my construction framing projects. It has the added benefit when working with young workers because it’s much much easier and cheaper to undo mistakes 😎
@@gaybruce while i'd also love to see it tested, I can say form experience that screws are terrible at shear forces compared to nails, which is why they aren't used structurally when framing houses
animefreak5757 i agree. i know the nails would outperform the screws, but to what extent? i always frame with nails, but screws have their place, obviously.
Great comparison. I think another good comparison would be to test the holding power of different types of threaded inserts for wood. I’ve always been curious as to what the holding power they posses.
I don't know how I found your channel, or how often I'll need to use any of the products in these comparison videos, but I'll be damned if these videos aren't entertaining and fascinating. Keep up the good videos, man. They're a great watch!
The time and effort you put in all your tests Sir always impresses me , and I'm not impressed easily, GREAT JOB as always. Would love to see Project Farm hats for sale ,I think they'd be a hit.
@@ProjectFarm I'd also love to see this video come to life, please make it happen! I've been thinking of rust proofing my fleet of vehicles, and a video like this would definitely help make a decision
I love these videos so much. I watch them while I go to sleep because your delivery of information, technical data, and comparisons just make me feel so calm.
i heard once that philips head screws were invented for building airplanes because they cam out once they reach a certain torque. if true, that’s a plain reason to not use philips headed screws for construction.
Give square drive aka robertsons a try. When I'm in a place I can't get torx I can usually get robertsons, in my opinion they are almost as good as torx in my opinion.
@@gaybruce phillips were designed to cam out, which is why there's several takes on the design (JIC and pozidrive), Personally I like robertson, but because of poor business choices, it's not that popular in other parts of the work
You should of also tested the shear Force of the fasteners or at least explained screws are strong in tension but not so strong in shear. The last thing we need is some do it yourselfer putting a 2 story deck together with deck or drywall screws
I was thinking this throughout the whole video. He is testing a screw in its designed pulling direction. Screws are meant for pulling power, not shear, nails are meant for shear not pulling power in the method you were testing. Of course they would perform less, but in the spirit of the video, it is the loads they would do. Should do a shear video.
Same here. Only time I use nails is when I'm framing something that will never have much of a load. My thought process is the wood should turn to dust before the fasteners fail.
@@wolfpack4128 I'm not sure if this is true with deck screws, but nails usually have stronger sheer strength, and are better suited for applications like framing because of it.
Going back watching these older vids of yours. I have to say this opening statement completely describes every one of your vids. If it’s worth doing it’s worth doing right and you do every test right. If anyone sees this that is not subscribed don’t think any longer hit that bell you will be amazed with the amount of information you get from this channel
The only problem for screws is that they tend to snap under extreme condition where nails would slightly slip and go back, this is why you hear snapping in some oldish houses when the temp gets too cold.
Look up the LockPicking Lawyer... You'll find a lot of the info pertinent. You really only need to know about the Security of the locks and he tells about different types of attacks on locks.
Checked out that Lockpicking Lawyer ... Pretty cool stuff. Watched about 10 videos. Not sure I'll watch all 950 back episodes but I subscribed and will watch as they come out. Thanks for the recommendation guys.
There's always been controversy which holds durock the best : regular galvanized Roofing nails or Durock screws. I really enjoy your videos. Im constantly referring people to your channel. Your hands down the most unbiased RU-vidr out there. And I'm sure 99.9% of your audience thinks the same of you.. peace out.
Galvanized smooth was definitely a SHOCKER! I bet the thickness of the nail and flexibility adds to the tensile strength overall. Maybe a test on shear strength is NEEDED?
@ProjectFarm. We use to install commercial windows with drywall screws. After as little as 5 years we found that the head of the screws disintegrated completely. This was partly corrosion, but different/dissimilar metal oxidation mainly. A coated deck screw or mull screw held best. Even tap cons are very hard durable metal, but expensive. Looking forward to seeing the results. I bet you abandon the idea of drywall screws as your go to fixer. lol Thanks for making GREAT videos!
What if you had prevented the spiral shank nail from spinning as it was removed? Like, if a straight edge was provided beside the jig to prevent spinning. The spirals were definitely providing grip if it caused the jig to spin during removal.
This was amazing. It gives me the confidence in putting 1.5" screws into a stud to hold up some resistance band anchors without fear of it breaking loose. You should get some sort of award for this.
I subbed because this sort of stuff is interesting. Recently I’ve been watching stuff testing out stuff like this, Videos on Locks (The Lock Picking Lawyer), and Stuff on mousetraps (Shawn Woods).
