The value of expensive headers isn't really in a power difference, it's in the quality of materials an the fact that they may last 30 years, while these ebay headers will rust through in 5 years. Also the big name headers are gonna look ways better and often come coated
@@Prestiged_peck / look man I’m all for buying American but these companies need to understand that they are cutting their own throats with their prices. In the header and intake manifold markets this is most pronounced. Things aren’t the way they were 15-20 years ago when these chi-com copies started showing up on eBay, and you had a 50-50 chance of them actually fitting or not. In a lot of cases the copies are just about as good. A set of stainless lt headers with Y pipe for a 3rd gen Camaro is about $200 while the nearest American variant is over a $1000. And yes the fit is going to be better on the US set but people will deal with a few headaches with that big a price difference. I know companies have to recoup R&d costs, pay employees etc... but they need to be competitive or these Chinese companies “employing” 10 year olds are eventually going to either shut them out or force them offshore. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t offer a $1500 set of headers but come out with a $2-300 budget set and give the people buying the copies another option.
@@limabravo6065 they really should, like for me if imma pay $1500 for a set I'll build myself some, motion makes a good flange for like $20 a side, get some elbows and J's and start tiggin
Matt Gruizinga it also massively educated the customer base which makes companies change their tactics and actually give us better product and results. Weeds out the trash products and gives us a better market.
I had an idea the power levels were not gonna be much different vs eBay headers and name brand but my personal experience is the name brand exhaust last longer and hardly ever have fitment issues. The fitment issues on cheap headers can be a nightmare so that alone makes me pay the extra money to get the more expensive ones. Great video
eBay hard parts have gotten a hell of a lot better and now everyone realizes they've been getting ripped off for parts that have no moving parts you should do a video on intercoolers talk about getting ripped off
The biggest thing I learned is anything naturally aspirated under 550HP doesn't need dual 3" exhaust. The 2.5" didn't trade anything up top and gained torque down low over the 3".
Good point. I also noticed that all of the testing takes place above 3500 rpm. So for a street car not in the rpm nosebleed section, you may be able to do pretty well with just a good set of manifolds.
If DNA isn't supplying you with the stuff you need for these videos, they need to because you probably just sold over 100 long tubes from them. Count me as 2.
I put the same DNA headers on my 15 SS camaro I like them they are nice for the price but if I had the $1200 for Kooks I would've bought them. Great vid
We install headers almost daily & we also have a dyno jet. You are correct on the power output is equal. When a customer comes in with ebay headers we charge a extra 2 hours on the install ($220) because THEY NEVER FIT!!! We have to reem out flange holes on ebay headers all the time. God forbid a customer brings in a long tube + y-pipe ebay combo because the y pipe always needs a ton of persuasion to align which more often than not requires cutting and welding. Moral of this story, what you save on buy ebay headers is spent on installation so it winds up costing the same. I say buy name brand because in that case you get customer service from the manufacture and a real warranty not a Wuhan Warranty!
I was just going to say this about fitment and buying cheap headers. This why I went with kooks 1-7/8" on my 08 Vette. I want it all to fit right and I don't want them to hang low like all the cheap ones do
I just installed DNA long tube headers, mid pipe with y pipe assembly on my 2009 RAM...overall pretty impressive and their customer service even in China has responded to all my requests and or issues....I would 100% recommend the DNA long tube headers...and oh yah they are pretty loud and mean sounding with my Flowmaster super 10 ....👍
Very cool to see the differences from each type of header. Id like to see it one step further with other bolt on mods. Such as cai, tb, and aftermarket intakes. Nice work regardless!
Yep, I've ran the inexpensive headers on my vehicles for years. MUCH appreciate your sharing and work on this video, backs up what I've always said and felt, and I certainly will use this to share! When you look at the price difference, troubles or longetivity isnt much a problem to me, when I can buy multiple inexpensive sets vs just the one
Great video! Yesterday i was looking for a test like this, im about to put some headers on a BBC in my truck, perfect timing. You also cleared up the misinformation ive read about where power gains are at in rpm range with shorty's vs long tubes. Thanks again! Edit to add...i agree with others, this testing does help us all a lot. Its hard to sift through all the conflicting info on the internet. Its great to see an actual test.
@@cobaltsslsj5891 No, they are made with inferior metals, not machined to high tolerances so expect warping, rusting and leaks earlier than a quality set. They make roughly the same power, so if your project is only expected to live 2-3 years it's a great header. If you want to keep your vehicle for many years, buy the quality ones that will last.
@@The_Fat_Turtle when i can buy 3 sets compared to high $$$$$$$ ones it's a win win . the quality of ebay is great , i bought a set for my Cobalt SS and it was just as good as the ZZP in every way but $400 cheaper - putting a set on my LS swapped S10 and they are great
I love data.Thanks Richard.What surprised me was the fact that even though it's just headers there really wasn't as much of a gain over factory manifolds.
My DNA headers had straight, thick flanges and fit great with no leaks but upgraded the gaskets just to make sure. $200 for good looking headers. I am happy with them for sure.
I bought some headers for 300$ seen the unbranded same design! For 109$.. on eBay just doesn't have the sexy name plate on it like mine.. I've been needing this video basically so I can sleep better.
Already got ebay longtubes for my Coyote, they work great.. less then $200.00 for them only issue i had was one 02 sensor bung was welded a little off center from the hole so a little grinding was needed to get the sensor to thread in, but im not complaining, I saved alot of money.
I'd like to see what YOU choose to go cheap on and what YOU refuse to, I enjoy watching your channel it's extremely informative and a little different than all the billion other channels. Needless to say I'll watch your channel for a new video before others. Hope your head heals up n good luck
This is a good test but one thing you have to factor in is header primary tube and collector flow on each set of headers. We have found through dyno testing and flowbench testing that header flow will have a dramatic effect on hp output. Two different flowing shorty headers will not produce the Same power output. Same as the long tubes. There's so much science involved when searching for more hp.
I had to get an ebay header for my old car, 93 sidekick. The old stock manifold was cracked. It did run a lot better, mostly from not having the crack. But for IIRC $80 and $120 for a shop to install them, compared to $400 for a set of replacement manifolds. It was a great Improvement.
Having run many inexpensive headers ($89 i think was the cheapest and they burned #3 wire off every other month) i was thinking of the fit and customer service through most of this video. Great job hitting all the points!
I’ve looked at EBay headers. I liked the fact that they were stainless, but read the reviews about figment, and durability. They weren’t too convincing. I ended up getting a good set of Schoenfeld circle track headers, cause I wanted low to mid range torque. I had to remove my AC box to get them in, but once I did, the headers fell right into place. For a street rod that I only drive in goo weather, it was worth it. I gained ground clearance. My original mass produced headers didn’t give me that. I don’t have to lift the engine to remove or install them, and they actually gave me a pretty noticeable kick in the butt, when I drove it.
Fit, finish, flange thickness, and overall quality matter just as much as the power numbers. Changing header flange and collector gaskets that leak all the time sucks. Same with headers that fit poorly or rot out after a year or two. Great test Richard! Best of luck in 2020, if you take a tumble on New Years eve, don't catch yourself with your face 😁
Yo RICH your videos are RICH. LOADS OF INFORMATION FOR THE LAYMAN AND THE PROFESSIONAL. YOU ARE THE BEST. Frieburger and crew take heed. By the way. I purchased the cheap Ebay headers for my 6.0 Ls build Just as test and engine break in. The fit was poor and broke a couple of spark plugs upon installation. In my opinion the more expensive headers are the way to go if your going to keep them for every day use or racing.
I like that you do apples to apples stuff.... 5 decades of hearing how this manifold for intake or exhaust will add "25% HP gain! I love to see the actual practical numbers. Also... I put the camaro cast manifolds on my 5.3 in an LS conversion and they added about the same power.
What year of Camaro and what did you swap the engine into? I'm going to swap a 5.3 in a 92 Sonoma with 4WD. I still have the stock manifolds, but I am just wanting to plan ahead and see what other people have gone with.
Thanks for the rundown on the results! Def great info to know! Based on that data, as long as the fitment of the inexpensive headers is acceptable, then I wouldn't have any issue with using them. From a cost perspective, they're pretty much disposable.. but nobody want to replace stuff "just because". So, it would be interesting to hear from others about their longer-term experience with the lesser priced parts with regard to rusting, reliability of the welds (life without leaks), as well as discoloration. Ceramic? Blankets? Bare? I imagine that Richard would excel in an American Sign Language course! Thanks again!
I am amazed at the efforts this fella puts into this and I don't have to pay for it, he's not trying to sale anything 🤯 talks at a normal speed, intelligent, I'm only subscribed to two different channels this and athlean X, Two similar very cool guys, only this is stuff I might actually do lol
Love your video, would have liked a chart with all the numbers from the 3 engines and headers at the end. Cheap or steep? I have never had a name brand company help me out with a warranty or a customer service issue without fighting for days or even weeks. For me I’ll run the cheap headers and replace them every couple years. Not to mention it’s easier to stomach bashing them to fit.
Great video! Thanks for the testing. For further improving these videos: putting a table with all the results in one shot after the testing would be really nice.
Great comparison that was well articulated and unbiased.There 2 other things to consider. Flange thickness which can affect sealing and pipe thickness which affects underhood head and noise.
Another great video from Richard, I would go with the name brand Richard didn't mention it but quality thickness of the tubing ect makes a difference of longevity
Thanks for this one. I've been battling back and forth with folks about brand name headers and cheap copies of them. Forget spending thousands of dollars for brand name headers.
James Williams you think the companies making knock offs are testing? lol someone has to design through r&d these products but you take the risk if your eBay part is a knock off of something that works or something that’s good enough.
@@hopsyn Nope. I don't think they are testing. But in my case, I have OBX copies of Kooks headers for a G8. They've been dyno tested before in the past and they were within 1-5 hp of Kooks. For less than half the price. So, I'm happy... Lol
James Williams Ppl who buy the expensive brand got the money for it so they can careless searching for cheaper. Also the more expensive brands like kooks comes with better quality v band clamps and provide 02 extenders
I always questioned whether the guys just dumping the catalysts off the stock exhaust manifolds were really gaining much, but apparently they perform almost as well as the shorties. In fact, I suspect the guys reporting bigger gains on shorties are comparing them to stocks with cats which is not really apples to apples. Good, informative testing.
Tri-Y ?? Really enjoying your new vids cobber, any chance you could do a tri-y comparison. super interested to see what the low down torque difference is. Most of my car/utes have had that design so if it is just a packaging thing are they worth it over stock or is there some magic low velocity savaging. Would also be ace to hear a quick breakdown on the fuel volume used per kw (or whatever bizarre freedom units you lunatics use). eg pick an arbitrary 100hp at 2500rpm to represent highway cruze and give a lb/h of fuel for each modification stage. if it's a valid test it should only take a few seconds after each pull and i figure cheapskates like me and distance racers would love a couple of minutes on efficiency (if it's not a valid test and you have a few minutes please shed some light). thanks again for you work hope your channel blows up.
If the cheaper headers were to lack something that the more expensive headers had, I wouldn't put my bet on performance. It would more likely be the longevity. If your cheaper headers are made by a hobbyist with a flux-core mig, I'd worry more about the conditions of the welds under long-term distress. But if you're the sort of builder who is constantly exploring new components, it's a pretty good deal even if they only last a year or two.
Anthony Thomas, you’re right, but the point I was making is that I and many people have had the belief that you have to get headers to make power and allow the engine breath, when in reality you need to upgrade your cam shaft for better results as far as high RPM power
9090ruby Engine Masters already covered denting headers to clear objects doesn’t affect power much. They beat the hell out of a couple Hookers with hammers to prove it.
@@9090ruby pretty clear you have never built anything before. Nothing ever fits as advertised. If your even lucky enough to get the right parts on the first try.
Nice results! My question would be the gains of the cheap turbo headers vs the high$$$ brands. 3”v band collector style. I’m curious to see the pros and cons of the inexpensive turbo headers. Keep up the awesome content!
This video was very helpful, i had a set of cheap eBay headers on my 95 vw golf, where almost all of the parts came from fleabay.... on my new chrysler 300c ill most likely go with a set of more expensive long tubes, especially since it's going to get a cam and tuner! Thanks for taking the time to make these videos!
I put Chinese headers on a f150, had a hard time on a couple ports getting bolts in because if the tube being so big and no room for the head of the bolts. Thanks for the video
It is one hell of an undertaking. Tuned headers are also a part of a tuned intake. Ever wondered why a Ferrari V12 screams? It's the intake tuning related to the headers. That's what Ferrari does better than just about anybody.
Richard do a big favor for me and all the other to see, this would be an important test. Do a 4-1 header vs a 4-2-1 header dyno test. i dont buy headers i just make my own and i gravitate towards the 4-2-1 as just driving down the highway or leaving the line or changing gears, the car just responds better with the 4-2-1 headers. As far as HP at rpm i dont know never dyno any engine i ever built. So can you do another header test for us, a 4-2-1 vs a 4-1, i would be fine even if u used the same header just changed the collectors from a 4-1 to 4-2-1. It would be nice to know how do they affect the power curve. Thanks and i hope u can get a test like this done soon in the future. dr Dave
American Racing for my 2012 Grand Sport Corvette. I have had Speed Engineering on a C7 and they seemed to do fine but didn't have the car long enough to see how they would last.
Awesome video! I have a 575hp 393w in a 71 F100... I had to run 1 5/8's long tubes for a 302 on it since no company offers headers for a 351w in a early F100... How much do you think a set of 1 7/8's headers would be worth on a combo like mine?
hmm frustrating for the Brand headers.. but I am happy with the results ..because i just changed from super Cheap DNA Shortys 67$ a pair, to BBK Long tubes..next week I will know how much better they work.. but I m shure they do... nice Test !!!
Actually took my DNA headers out of the box today. I work with stainless steel for a living. These are definitely not 304. They are some extremely low grade stainless and you can get a magnet to stick fairly well on the tubes and i had no problem getting one to stick on the flanges. For $200 I'm not going to complain too much as long as they have a reasonable fit. One of the "mid pipe" tubes is ovaled pretty good and isn't going to work out of the box. I'm probably going to make my own with an x-pipe and true duals. The hardware and gaskets are going in the trash.
You teach information very well… easy to follow and understand… my question is… I’ve seen different design in shorties.. I have a set of hookers that are called GT 500 tuned shorties design for a 4.6/3v and they have actual collector as others don’t … I’ve also seen DNA from eBay with the same design… my question is is there any difference in design of shorties when ie comes to power… and not compare to long tube…
Can you explain the meaning of “tuned shorties” as compared to “non-tuned”.. and is that just advertising.. now I understand pulse exhaust timing which is why LT’s are the best but how does that improve the shorties…when the primary’s are not equal lengths…because I noticed an increase in power when I installed my shorties..
I put a set of Hooker Super Comps on my mild 350 in my '76 Camaro. I only used them because I found a set for $50. But I have to say they are the best fitting SBC headers I've ever owned. I only had to clearance one tube to clear a spark plug. Everything else was great. They might not be optimal but the good fit was worth the trade off.
