I think it's funny (in a very lighthearted kind of way) how people mimick Rupert's language when asking questions. It's like putting on another mask and asking if it's the right one, and Rupert keeps telling them that's nice but take off all the masks. Humans are amazing and adorable.
I can find I. I know I am something. The decision comes out of me and it is in my responsibility. I make it. It is not a thought. It is decision after thought. Very simple. How people can be so blind?😂
this kind of knowledge should only be made available when one's soul has evolved enough. it's of no use to someone to has not experienced it but rather might even be harmful
Yea I can see that being the case. If I looked at this video a couple of years ago I probably would not have resonated with it or experienced it the way I do now. On the other hand I would also suggest that your resistance to this knowledge being made available to the general public is not a thought you had any control over and you also did not have any control over typing this comment. Much like you, I had no control over the impulse of responding to your comment in agreement. When we put it this way it becomes very easy to get detached and move on.
I don't seem to have control of the thought, but if I'm paying attention to a thought I do seem to have control of whether or not to take ownership of it.
9:01 "It seems to paint a picture of deterministic view" 10:10 Ruperts response to the answer to the determinism. 13:10 creativity is freedom from the past. We have at our disposal all the tools to express our true nature of love and beauty.
There are internal and external determinants shaping our thoughts and activities. It seems that what we call freewill is another name for internal determinism.
Hi Rupert Thank you very much for this video. The first, I would say, two-thirds of this (you with the questioner) brings us to realising that it is the separate self which demands free will, establishing "itself" as a controller between thoughts, while the true Awareness has no concern for such individuality. But in the last few minutes, we again seem to be praising the rebel in us, with a collective levity and, quite naturally, almost a sense of relief shown by those in attendance. However, I felt what was being celebrated was once again the separate self at that point. I believe the Awareness, which I really am, has no compulsion about, nor interest in, asserting its freedom. It simply is free eternally. I'm pretty sure you would say the same - it's just that I seemed to notice a slight relaxation in the latter few minutes from the false controller perception which you led to so well just before. I'd be grateful for your comment on this. I very much enjoyed this viewing and your insights are helpful to me. I'm looking forward to watching more of your presentations. Peter
Awareness expressed in action is freedom; actions which are in conflict with this intelligence and are rather governed by external agents (institute; boss; society; memory; body-mind-senses) may cause stress, internal conflict, confusion, rebel
I feel like this conundrum can be understood only when true self is realized. Otherwise it's a mind-boggling paradox, never to be understood via mind only. It's pretty crazy if you ask me.
The sense of freedom is not from free will it’s from the fact of how thoughts come so creatively and cleverly sometimes. We feel great about the complex thoughts and how they get us to places that are sometimes delightful, either in the world or in the thoughts themselves. Our sense of control is _because_ of how great thought is at negotiating whatever comes up; it is not a sense of control over thought.
Brilliant as always Rupert. Your clear and concise articulation of non-dualism is truly exceptional and has helped me immensely. Whenever I listen to you, I have the definite sense that you speak from experience..that you Know it and not just know about it.
I can find I. I know I am something. The decision comes out of me and it is in my responsibility. I make it. It is not a thought. It is decision after thought. Very simple. How people can be so blind?😂
Who does Robert think he is fooling saying you are not the thoughts,isn't that quite obvious. When he said we love freedom is that not a thought. I believe we are choosing our thoughts and we take action after selecting the most appropriate thought. Thoughts are moving so fast throughout our brain and so interconnected it gives the allusion of conciseness.
A thought arises, I’m hungry. Next thought arises, what to eat? Next thought arises, I want something healthy. Next thought arises, how bout long John silvers. Next thought arises, that’s funny. Next thought arises, seriously I want some salmon. Next thought arises, I am the chooser between thoughts. Next thought arises, I know more than rupert. Next thought arises, I’m too lazy to check for myself. Next thought arises, I’m late for work fuck this shit
Very helpful as always Rupert. Something for me to look at more closely. I am often aware of a thought just as it appears - or even just before it registers as a thought. Before it even has the 'words' attached to it. It really does appear to appear out of no-thing. I see then that 'I' didn't think the thought. It seems to appear in consciousness awareness and is all too easily claimed as 'my thought' when it just isn't. Most of the time however - unless mindfulness is applied, the thoughts appear and we quickly 'own' them.
That's where meditation helps slow our thoughts so it has time foe us to be mindful and not take the ego I instead say God did it- or ask who did this thought arise too- takes you back to infinite consiousness
I have found a lot of sense from this channel. Others I have found to be self serving even though some of the advice has been sound. I feel perhaps Rupert has offered many solutions to the confusion of ones own being. I would love to see an episode or discussion on the awareness and defeating OCD. This condition seems so virulent. This condition has also locked people out of their true self awareness, giving the mind the dominant role and finding ways to empower itself of the one true self. I hope you read this Rupert and offer a discussion on the matter. You have helped many people and that is a beautiful thing arising from within. Promoting joy from within is a wonderful thing, as true joy cannot come from an outside source, only temporary pleasures. I am slowly working my way through your youtube episodes. Love to you all.
Thought and action doesn't really.depend on each other. Thought is just a mind's trick to take credit for action. In your brain the action is "chosen" one point five second before you actually do it, so pretty long after your brain started to do anything. Thus your action precedes the thought about a decision ergo your mind acts after everything is already in motion.
Thank you Rupert for your commentaries about freedom! Especially when you speak about your child and his rebellion towards school. It's certainly difficult for children and parents to keep their freedom when they experiment school. But it's also true for the teachers ;-)
You can also point to the 'choser' just being a 'sense' appearing along with thoughts because of the way language is constructed. Almost all thoughts contains the conceptual perceiver/perceived, the subject/object relationship; the thought "I like a cup of coffee" tells the mind that theres a choser/doer/perceiver there, as well as an object perceived/chosen which, when taken as fact, actually creates a felt sense of separation. That felt sense of separation is your 'sense of self' - and its only created due to a dualistic mental perspective that is constantly reinforced by language.
I can find I. I know I am something. The decision comes out of me and it is in my responsibility. I make it. It is not a thought. It is decision after thought. Very simple. How people can be so blind?😂
@@ultralyfe.9477 the mind can't look at anything. the mind is the current thought. it is an object. only awareness can "look" at anything. this is why buddhists get into trouble; they refuse to acknowledge anything acausal because of the doctrine of dependant origination. consciousness as it is understood in advaita is simply seen as another impermanent condition. this is why a lot of people see buddhism essentially as a moral version of nihilism. 'm not saying it is that, but it constantly reinforces the notion of a separate self through the idea of efforting your way towards enlightenment. i believe that's why a lot of people feel a sense like something is missing with buddhism, like i have. sorry for the rant, i know you weren't asking for it.
Poetic summary.... You think you thunk a thought, but that thinking is not your thought. That thought to stop the other thoughts, also not your thought. If you want to discover what you sought, no need for constant striving. Just simply be and you can see you're thoughts are just arriving. And, if you watch close enough, you can see the truth of thought: Thoughts are arriving, no one's driving, and the little self is not.
I can find I. I know I am something. The decision comes out of me and it is in my responsibility. I make it. It is not a thought. It is decision after thought. Very simple. How people can be so blind?😂
Rubbish! So this little poem of yours came from where? Dont say "my" anything, because you dont believe in you remember? This is a cult based on nonsense, but rupert doesnt want you to kill yourself, he just wants your money.
@@fuckinghero4771 _ Of course you are a 'something', i.e. a THING, an object of awareness. But the awareness or consciousness is not a thing! Is that no thing the source of true "I"?
The social conditioning and our limited altered thinking is what he's referring to with his analogy of the bathroom signs at the retreat. We know intuitively on some level the way we are living and thinking is not our true free nature.
IF you can't find and Deal with the sources of your pain & suffering you won't start to Heal..Listen to your inner self and try and be friends with you...Because the pain & suffering needs a best friend to trust and that trust & your truth starts inside of YOU..YOU MATTER. Opening up to understanding of your inner pain & suffering is key..
We confuse the word freedom often. Also the word can be apply for different things, but it always is related with what we feel to be true. And what is true is what bring us joy. What can be more joyful then just being yourself? And its the easiest way to live as well. But we must not forget, that our freedom ends where starts the freedom of other person. Much Love.
This one scared me a lot. I’ve been looking and there is something beautiful making choices and growing and expanding, but it’s not me. it’s wonderful and holy, but it’s not me. How wonderful, it will go on expanding and I will enjoy it! There’s no need to fear.
The notion that there is no separate self or chooser runs into difficulty for me when confronted by those whose actions harm others. Are they not responsible for their actions? Did they have no choice in the matter? If not, then why does society punish them for their actions? Should we not have compassion instead? So for me the notion that all is one is fine, but practical experience informs us that reality is particulate down to the level of the atom, and perhaps even on the level of being.
Who makes up society other than equally 'not responsible for their actions' people? So the members of society don't have a choice in the matter and should not submit to being punished by those whose non free choices endanger the rest of us. IOW free will or not free will it is appropriate to protect society by either finding a way to adjust the behavior of, sequester or even eliminate wrong doers, Separate self or not separate self is irrelevant as long as everyone is the same. There is no third person looking on deciding this or deciding that, we're all in this together if there is no free will and there is no 'chooser.'
Thoughts come from what preceeded and your experience of the present moment. When one has to work out a mathematical calculation or puzzle is it freewill or consciousness.
What about when we sit down and tell ourselves, "Ok, I need to think about this very carefully. I need to weigh all my options." And for the next 20 minutes, we (seem to be) deliberately calling certain things to mind in order to closely evaluate them. There appears to be a lot of agency at work in these 20 minutes that wasn't at work before.
the chooser itself is our internal parts, which many are unconscious...... many of us have hundreds of internal parts, and most of us are unaware of them. IFS does great work to help discover these internal parts. These fragmented, internal parts all have their own thoughts and feelings and ideas...... and they're simultaneously offered up to the self......
Quickest way of getting rid of unwanted drivel is to flush it into out breath through the crown Chakra and imagine it going into the ground for compost- RIP. Optional ,you can stop the out breath still and let go as you stop; I think in Yoga it is called a Mudra. One may find it better than just sitting back in no resistance off the thought train, especially if at some point before thought has caught on a nerve leaving residual tension. Also there is a great Chi Gung technique of rotating the arms with out breath with a slight stop to let go as you do it. Hope this helps. Namaste.
The thinker is the thought. The thought is awareness. Awareness is.. The thought is the transmission of awareness. The thinker is the receiver of thought. The world is a stage for all possibilities that exist. The illusion of self is created by lack of knowledge of “I AM”.
@@gypsydanger3765it could be anything, I thought and intuition a feeling, they all come to you. Thinking happens but there is no thinker, no 'you' doing it.
I can find I. I know I am something. The decision comes out of me and it is in my responsibility. I make it. It is not a thought. It is decision after thought. Very simple. How people can be so blind?😂
@@fuckinghero4771 FINALLY someone sees through this rubbish! Its only a trick created for rupert to sell 3 thousand dollar retreats! And he sits here all soft spoken like some sort of intellectual savant quallified only as a failed potter! Does he have a degree in neuroscience? Psychiatry? is he even a doctor? NO hes a scam artist.
I think awareness only becomes thought. that is why during the process of thinking we are not aware of awareness ( game example by Rupert) . We are back to awareness after the thoguht only. Thus all through only awareness and nothing else. If thought=awareness -then nothing ever happened. All there is awareness only -no birth-no death-no world
Rupert says thoughts arise automatically and the sense of choice (amongst thoughts or options) is itself a thought - yet oh no we're not the observers of a mechanical determined life. He says in awareness all possibilities exist. However, if I, awareness, am not the one choosing amongst these infinite possibilities, then the life that unfolds is in fact determined. What advaita misses and denies is that Consciousness has the power of will, which comes not from a separate inagined entity but expresses itself in consciousness through each individualized mind. This power of will is why we feel not only that I am aware but that I choose.
@@isacnilsson460 It is always possible to claim that an aspect of our experience is "just a thought" or "just a feeling" and thereby to declare it an illusion. But this philosophical act of interpretation conveniently ignores its own ostensible status as an illusory thought or feeling, rather than a truthful interpretation of experience. Therefore how do we come to the right interpretation? One person declares that any sense of will/choice is just a thought/feeling, and another declares that it is more than that. But I would ask: By what criteria, other than our own most intimate thoughts and perceptions (feeling), are we to understand our experience? Someone who declares himself to have observed that he has no will or choice in anything - even his thoughts about will and choice - is a laughable thing. It's a performative contradiction. If all your thoughts are merely given, then how do you know which of them is true - including the thought, "I have no will." What advaita boils down to is the claim that we are not creative, thinking beings with (some degree of) free will. It is a simplistic bit of sophistry posing as eastern wisdom.
@@michaeldamian5750 thanks for repyling! I see where youre coming from, at the same time i think its clear that sometimes thoughts and feelings point to conclusions that arent true, and so cant be taken as evidence outright. Ofcourse neither can you say "its just a feeling" and dismiss it without further exploration.
@@isacnilsson460 The trouble is that saying "It's just a thought/feeling" doesn't mean something is false either. Otherwise we would have to declare that absolutely every word that is spoken is categorically false, because all words come from thoughts. If thoughts are entirely automatic and without any *potential* truth value that comes from someone's ability to THINK and reason about what is true, then no one can say anything and claim "I am speaking the truth." Advaita utterly fails to address the thinking process and its connection with will. Rupert for all his prowess just glosses over all of it with his well rehearsed but vague formulations.
My four year old grandson posts little notes all over our house that say for example "rule #8 - don't flush the toothbrush down the toilette!" Etc. lol
We all want to be free Like a Bird flying in the Skye,that’s our birth Right!I was thinking the same us a child,they never will like me as I’m my self!I gat in to many troubles 🙈🙈🤷♀️🤷♀️it was worth it💜💜👍👍👍
Maybe a different way to approach this would be to ask: "What effect does Awareness have on the appearance of thoughts (?)" And also: "What effect do various thoughts have on the appearance of Awareness (?)" The answers to those two questions, between them, would probably provide some understanding of what's going on . . .
For example: As thoughts arise (including the thought of "choice"), what does Awareness contribute to how they are stored and connected in the body/mind (which, in turn, conditions how they will arise again) (?)
It's as if thought can "use" Awareness. It can create a body/mind/self that can temporarily suspend itself . . . it order to be more fully aware. It can then use the results of that Awareness to create choice patterns. The resulting body/mind/self is still a conditioned process, but it incorporates Awareness to a greater or lesser degree. The "choice" is always a conditioned pattern . . . but that pattern can include a self-referential aspect that is "outside" its conditioning. Crude example: I can condition myself to choose coffee or tea for "reasons" . . . or I can condition myself to choose based on a coin flip. There's more "freedom" in the latter . . .
Thought #10 seems to have accumulated owing to thoughts 1 through 9. Thought #10 may even be characterised by a certain weariness from trying to decide - based on the experience of thoughts 1 through 9. My awareness of this, however, "whenever" this may be, is not of time. Is that it?
Everything is both spontaneous and predetermined. This is only possible if the passage of time is an illusion. There is no “there” there, no “then” then. But there’s no way the mind can perceive this. Fortunately it is possible to experience it through surrendering the mind.
On the one hand he starts off the conversation by asking the questioner “Who is the “we” or “l” that you are referring to?”...and goes on to explain that that “I” doesn’t exist. But then he makes the mistake of identifying with the “l” when she says she doesn’t like the notion that she is simply an awareness in the background. You can see him react by saying “It’s normal to be rebellious when “we” feel that “our” notion of freedom is taken away from “us”.” And in doing so he makes the error of speaking about and identifying with “we”, “us” “our” (or versions of “I”) which is same error she was making in the first place. Rather than continue to enquire he instantly identified with the “I” that she was identifying with. He also presumed that what she doesn’t like about that notion was that it has something to do with freedom, however at no point did she say that what she disliked about that notion has anything whatsoever to do with freedom. It may have had to do with something entirely different. But because he identified with a thought that arose in his mind about what she was referring to he responded to his own thought or presumption rather than continue to take her deeper and to consider the source of this new thought and dislike and the presumption that there was an “I” there also. What he should have engaged in was the same process of enquiry he used to break down the first erroneous presumption, and asked her, “Who or where is this “I” who doesn’t like this notion of merely being awareness in the background?”...because in doing so he could have helped her make the same discovery that that “I” cannot be found either. That “I” (and it’s notion) is a thought that is arising to awareness also. Instead he gets into a philosophical discussion that is founded on the the presumption that there *is* an “I” that doesn’t feel good about certain things - as if that “I” actually exists. Not to mention all of the reactions he has to his “memory” of being institutionalized at boarding school. This all suggests a merely intellectual understanding of the process that great Realizers like Ramana Maharshi and Bhagavan Adi Da Samraj had actually Realized.
Our perception of ourself is through the separate-self and if it doesn't have any freedom then we don't have a conscious freedom. I didn't quite understand how awareness is causing us to have a choice.
I think that the Realisation that we *do not* control our thoughts is best demonstrated when we try to *stop* them. Try as hard as you want to stop a very disturbing or painful thought,it just does not happen!!..you're apparently helpless!!..Thoughts, therefore, seem not to *be connected* to your Will!.. Through Mind Body Coherence, for example, you can *willfully* make your finger point,or 'Will' your fingers to clench in a fist anytime you want.You have total control over hand movements, But consider that... You cannot 'Will' the total cessation of thoughts. If you could,years of meditative practice to achieve this would become irrelevant. The completely inability to *Willfully* stop The Train Of Thought is evidence enough that we never control thoughts at all....Peace..
Glyne Martin You are correct, we do not have complete control over our thoughts but, I absolutely promise you that you can influence your thoughts to the point of being able to stop negative, painful, and disturbing ones. You do have control over your focus, and your thoughts require your focus. When you distract your focus from your thoughts the thoughts cease. This is why you focus on breath during mediation. Habit is everything with us and being that we generally spend the majority of our day in thought, mostly judgment, we build strong deep habits with thought. This is the reason it is so hard to be able "will" the total cessation of thought. Two Suggestions: 1) When you are having painful thoughts rather than trying to stop them try to replace them with a more positive thought. Then repeat that positive thought to yourself over and over again. Jam it into your mind so it pushes the negative thought away. 2) Like anything worth doing, achieving a blank mind takes a lot of practice. Focusing on breath is a great way to do it and at first just try to achieve one second of silence. If you can get that one second then you know its possible and can be assured that more practice will bring more seconds. Remember you don't "will" your thoughts to stop, you distract your focus from your thoughts. So, don't attempt to stop your thoughts but rather attempt to be completely focused on your breath as it moves in and out of your body. You can follow it from the top of your head all the way down to your tailbone. It is also helps to feel the sensation of your breath moving up and down your spine.
+Glyne Martin it is a tricky thing moving back and forth in between no mind [awareness] and mind, in between the unspeakable and the reasoning. In experiencing awareness all this talk has no meaning, it doesn't exist as nothing exists or does not exist. But then when I precipitates into the little i the mind comes into play with its dissections, analyses and concepts, labeling objects and experience, giving birth to Will and separating the me from not me. Thoughts are like birds flying in front of my window and the mind is either alert like a hungry cat that has ideas... or dissolved into the All like a well fed cat that is on the verge of having a cat nap, secure within the warmth of the room and cozy within its own furry being where moving things like birds and mice have lost any meaning.
These dialogues are compelling, but is it possible to arrive at a direct personal understanding of this non-dual perspective simply as a result of engaging in or hearing the verbal exchange, or does one simply learn the words to say/think as if one had had the experience?
Some question / irritation arises. If there is no choise of thought, how does creativity work? Simply looking how the thoughts (impulses) passes by and take a later one? Who is looking to be creative? Is there a "choosing-process" without chooser?
Look there is a chooser, whether it be true free thought or just an illusion of it, its irrelevant because we dont live in the processing of though, it presents itself as free thought. Just as a table not a table, it is actually a mass of attoms that are magnetic to each other in a combined form but we dont live in the world of sub atomic particles, we live in a world of tables, chairs and people that make money from creating borrowed paradoxical trickery.
Creativity just arises spontaneously. Ideas just prop up; action happens spontaneously. Deliberate thinking/choosing/deciding will actually be something else but not creativity.
well if i think “there’s no free will. i better let everything happen and not do anything about it” it’s a rather insane thought for my higher self to put in my brain innit
This is an important issue (for us/me, someone trying to "proceed" with this study). I'm left a bit unsatisfied with the answers (although I understand them and I do agree with them as far as they go -- but they don't quite go far enough). I was recently doing a meditation from the Sam Harris Waking Up meditation app (highly recommended). Throughout, Sam reminds us "there is no free will," and that thoughts come from "nowhere" (they do, as far as I can tell) but...as I was doing the guided meditation Sam requested the listener to "think of a recent situation that generated a feeling or emotion" and, of course, I had no trouble thinking/recalling the past event and re-generating the "feeling." So...who is the "I" who did that? It certainly seems like there was an "I" who could carry out such a process -- and did it. I'll need to hear more about THAT non-existent "I" with no will of it's own before I can progress much further with self-inquiry regarding what "I" is, and whether there's any "I" which does or doesn't have any "free will." (and I don't think an answer is enough that says I just responded to someone ELSE, and did what they said, so that's not "free" will)
Let's try this. In stilness, resting as awareness, is anything that is known by awareness not awareness itself? Can anything be excluded? When you have directly experienced that there is nothing "else" or "other" than awareness, you will start to see why your mind thinks it found a problem in Rupert's pointing. You say that you had clearly chosen to bring up a memory prompted by someone "else". There is no else, but for the mind that imagines it is separate. Awareness makes no distinction between "other" who posed a question, and an "I" who had a thought. Both are thoughts appearing in awareness. Again, in retrospect, it seems like there was another whose question made it seem like you can choose your thoughts. But that's just a thought.
Most of these modern nondual-teachers simplify the sense of personal self. It´s not just a thought. Rather, it´s psychological sense of individuaity, which has continuity, otherwise, we wouldn´t be personalities, with certain tendencies, habits and patterns of thought and behaviour. (In samkhya-yoga philospophy it is seen as one main "character" of the mind; and in western psychology W.James talked about the I-self and the me-selves.) But, yes, the personal self, is a mind construct and can be deconstructed, but it´s NOT deconstructed just by believing in some teacher saying "it´s just a thought". Often these teachers seem ask to check in and look for the separate self? Well, IF someone has already decoonstructed it, like I hope some of these teachers have, there is none. BUT when some of their "disciples" does it, the problem is that in them the ever present awareness is identified with the personal self. (It even comes up in Mr. Spiras words "we feel like... we don´t like that..." And just like the eye cannot see itself, and the ever-present awareness cannot see itself, neither can the personal I-self see itself - so, it appears at that moment like it doesn´t exist. And that´s why, a lotta fake awakenings happen in neo-nondualism. The I-self can be seen only if and when the ever-present awareness isn´t identified with it. And often it´s forgotten, which makes the teachings sometimes hard to grasp by "normal" people. And many start to teach too early.
As far as I understand, that is the purpose of meditative practices. But just trying to be The Aware Presence as much as possible is the key. Meaning, being aware, that you are the perceiver of anything that arises in your subjective experience. And then your whole life becomes a meditation practice.
What other way is there do deconstruct the personal self as to say, it is just a thought, we believe to be true. The problem is, that this thought arises again and again,only because it is a many years odl pattern. So you have to reject it again and again until it does not arise anymore or until the believe in it does not arise anymore. Nothing else to do, always be aware of what you really are instead of believing in a personal identity.
