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Do You Need ECC Memory For ZFS?

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Опубликовано:

4 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 39

@maximilianheinrich2537 Год назад

Tom boldly triggering angry TrueNAS Core forum admins here :-D

@LAWRENCESYSTEMS Год назад

Yes

@alessiozanutta2698 6 месяцев назад

I think that for the majority of people that cannot use ECC RAM the most important advise would be: "how can I add another level of protection to mitigate the risk of using non-ECC RAM ?". I also do not have the possibility to use ECC in my system (CPU does not support it). Does using an additional VDEV (metadata, log, spare, dedup) on the M.2 SSD help on this?

@andrewr7820 Год назад

Thanks for providing great content Tom. You share what you practice to the benefit of users and IT admins everywhere. Props to you man.

@mikerollin4073 6 месяцев назад

I have read threads under blog posts, that were fueled by a seemingly religious passion, about the fire and brimstone that awaits those careless souls whom don't walk the straight and narrow...but instead use regularly tested RAM and have a solid backup strategy.

@jfkastner Год назад

It's NOT required, correct - BUT I can see how it helps with a ZFS Server with e.g. 128+ GB RAM - the more Cells you have the higher the risk is one will flip accidentally

@zog382 11 месяцев назад

What i need Tom is that shirt.

@saam4312 Год назад

So many acronyms. Now I'm an expert. I just DD DHR WRO VHT3 DRR3 CCTV CFS CFX yesterday

@acolyte8564 Год назад

^ this guy is some ones dad. :D

@williamp6800 9 месяцев назад

Was it painful?

@majoryoshi Год назад

Where can I get a shirt like that? I need it in my life

@Tickletehpickle Год назад

Damn, I just bought 2x 16gb UDIMM ECC stick and a Ryzen pro apu for my Truenas box .

@acolyte8564 Год назад

You made the right call

@williamp6800 10 месяцев назад

Nothing wrong with that choice. I was budget constrained so I went with a used X10 generation Supernicro motherboard so that I could use ECC.

@Jokermaniac 11 месяцев назад

Question could you do video of best settings for music downloads compared to video downloads because trying to get faster for huge music downloads I'm getting soon

@felixelbjunge8416 11 месяцев назад

Do you remember where that shirt is from? Now to actually watching the short :D

@LAWRENCESYSTEMS 11 месяцев назад

They are from NinjaOne from an event

@nathanddrews Год назад

Fortunately DDR5 has on die ECC, so while not "true ECC", it's a nice addition!

@damiendye6623 Год назад

Not for this use case the ECC on chips is just to keep if working it's not for the stick as a whole hence why you get real ecc sticks

@williamp6800 9 месяцев назад

Not really an “addition.” More of a case of preventing a deficiency. DDR5 needs the on DIMM ECC because it’s pushing the limits so far that it’s needed to make sure you have valid data within the DIMM. As I understand it, it’s only to keep DDR5 functioning as well as DDR4 and earlier memory did.

@GreySectoid 7 месяцев назад

I am a professional programmer for 20+ years and I am very skeptical about this. If I cannot trust the data I write in ram is correct, the program will most definitely be "garbage in, garbage out". What kind of measures does ZFS implement to circumvent corrupted ram?

@skeetabomb 3 месяца назад

Agree. Would it not simply generate a hash on the corrupted file and just write the bad file and bad hash to the pool? I am not sure ZFS can ever really know if the data is corrupt during the initial write process. Where it shines is detecting bit flips on disk during read. ECC helps with preventing flipped bits in memory being incorrectly written to disk as if they were correct.

@GreySectoid 3 месяца назад

@@skeetabomb And the other way around, generating incorrect hash for a valid file, and then discarding completely valid data? I admit my knowledge of ZFS is limited but I would imagine it would be quite hard to program any kind of error correction on software level if you cannot trust hardware. And to think it further, if errors could be fully corrected on software level, all data centers would do that instead of doing algorithms on expensive hardware.

@ashercrush8953 7 месяцев назад

Dear sir , may i ask i am going to build a truenas for my home server backup and running multiple vm, do i really need ecc ram to reduce possibility of error in the zpool ? Please help 😢

@LAWRENCESYSTEMS 7 месяцев назад

nope

@edhahaz Год назад

What about BTRFS ?

@LAWRENCESYSTEMS Год назад

As far as I know, it does not either.

@guidefortheblindguy4319 11 месяцев назад

Thank you, Tom. Now quick question. Why FreeNas (TrueNAS) kill so many hard drives?

@LAWRENCESYSTEMS 11 месяцев назад

It does not

@RoyOlsen Год назад

Only if you care about the integrity and availability of your data.

@LAWRENCESYSTEMS Год назад

As I said in the video, ECC IS NOT needed to for ZFS to validate the integrity of the data.

@VTOLfreak Год назад

@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS How about the application that's writing to the ZFS filesystem? How much do your trust your SMB/NFS/iSCSI services? You need to guarantee integrity on the full IO stack and ZFS is only part of it. If it's already corrupt before it's handed off to ZFS, you are still SOL. That's why you need ECC.

@RoyOlsen Год назад

@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS There are a many ways that faulty memory can corrupt data on a server with ZFS. Even if you look at the file system implementation exclusively, ZFS integrity was designed to deal with disk corruption, not memory corruption. ZFS places blind trust in memory integrity, but will catch certain conditions that resembles media errors. Please read the paper “End-to-end Data Integrity for File Systems: A ZFS Case Study” from Wisconsin-Madison or read up on the relevant Oracle documentation.

@LAWRENCESYSTEMS Год назад

If we follow the logic in that paper and your argument then ALL SYSTEMS should be using ECC 🙄

@RoyOlsen Год назад

@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS Absolutely they should, and I know Linus Torvalds agrees. Seriously, though; In general, any server processing important data needs ECC memory. Really. (Intel knows that too, that’s why they opted to tie ECC memory to the expensive Xeon line of CPUs)