Do Your Skis NEED Titanal? What Does It Do? 

While I sub a lot of ski instructor/tutorial blogs & YTs, yours is the 1st ski review channel I've subbed. I know you're not just a 1-trick pony LOL! Can't stand the sterile studio/green screen channels. Plus, your personality, humility, knowledge, warmth, humor, and humanity keep me coming back for more. Truly appreciate you, Be Well Elliot!

Good discussion. After reading the comments below, the ones about stretch are describing what titanal (aluminum sheet, not titanium) does for a ski. Its all about the glue bond between the titanal and the wood core. Take that flimsy titanal sheet and try to stretch it (grab both ends and pull). That is what happens when a ski flexes and curves. The top surface gets shorter and the bottom surface gets longer. Not by a lot, but by enough to make a difference to the titanal sheet. So due to the "I beam" effect and the bond to the wood, the stretch resistance of the metal is much stronger than the stretch resistance of the wood. Hence titanal effects longitudinal stiffness, and torsional stiffness and damping. The degree of each can vary based on many factors. It also is more noticeable the more the ski is bent, hence the "threshold" that Elliot mentions. To me threshold is not the best word, I would use "resistance" and spring back. Skis with metal offer a more progressive flex resistance and hence more energy return when highly bent and released. I would agree with Elliot's description of what he feels, I just think the explanation is mostly about what happens when the sheet is forced to stretch due to bending of the ski. I have a Masters in Mech. Eng just to state my qualifications for what I am saying. Titanal is cut into many shapes to have its effect be localized, versus a full width sheet these days. Beam bending theory explains the effect, but not appropriate for general public discussions.

Thanks for watching! Looking forward to reading everyone else's thoughts on Titanal!

I will always have a daily driver with ti for most days out West. My deep pow ski has no ti. Thanks for the content, Elliot

1:50 If the titanal scratches off with your finger, there probably is a defect there. The "standard" titanal thickness is around 0.5mm, and getting that to scratch off would mean that the material itself has disintegrated badly, or it's just for graphical purposes, if the layer is thinner than would make practical sense.

Wow, I had no idea about how titanal worked. I have the Rossi sender 94 ti and haven’t noticed that it is too stiff- the torsional rigidity is an idea I had not thought about.

Two layers of metal (even thin) sandwiching a wood core can change a lot

12:30 "This is like a bunch of quarter truths adding up to a semi-truth." You condemn with faint praise here, and I'd argue you are being too kind. Skis are a LAMINATED UNIT. Titanal significantly adds to the rigidity and rebound characteristics of a ski as a KEY COMPONANT to that unit. The fact that the titanal layer is bonded to the layer above and below is the key to this; the apparent floppiness of the metal itself outside of the assembly is no indication of its role within the laminated assembly. If you were making chili, titanal is the sliced jalapeno pepper. It might only be 1% of the chili, but it has a outsized impact on the overall character of the chili. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

I think titanal has been conflated with stiffness because stiffer skis ARE generally the ones that incorporate titanal. But that's because skis designed for going fast on a hard surface need to be both stiff and damp. So those skis will be built stiff and also incorporate titanal for damping. Regarding energy return, you can view the ski as a loaded spring anchored at your boot and with the snow pushing up at the tip and tail. If you've taken a physics class, you may recall Hooke's law (force = distance*stiffness). So if you want to increase the amount of energy in a ski at a given edge angle, you can either increase the distance you're bending it (by increasing the camber) or you can increase the stiffness of the ski. But titanal can't provide energy return independently of its very small contribution to the stiffness of the ski. So why don't all skis return the same amount of energy? Nordica Enforcers have a lot of metal in them - far more than the Mavericks. But according to your multiple videos about them, they don't return a skier's energy, while the Mavericks do. I think the discrepancy has more to do with the shape of the tail. The Enforcer's tail is more rockered and more rounded than most other skis. So when you put it on edge and bend it into a carve, the rockered tail is already shaped somewhat like the arc of the carve, and the rounded off corners bring the ends of the tail closer to the skier's boots. The force of the ground against the ski simply isn't bending the ski as much much as it would if the tail were flatter or squarer. The ski isn't returning as much energy because less of the energy is being stored in the ski.

Good discussion. Titanal is more present in higher end ski that have a beefier construction. Now cie shape/cut the titanal sheet because i think it is easier to manipulate than shaping the wood core. I think with new material like graphene it may change in the future. I agree with another comment that titanal is part of a build and adds some caracteristic engineers want and titanal offers. Skis now need more torsional rigidity and easier to flex so you get the full arc.

You probably should have covered the fact that 'Titanal' is a misleading marketing term for an aluminum alloy that may or may not incorporate the tiniest bit of titanium (.01% or less).

Before you get into Ski Monster I will say that when I used to race my skis had a lot of camber and I would get a couple years before I would loose the camber.. Specifically I would lose the elasticity of the ski.. The skis that I have that have titanal (enforcer and stormrider) do not have as much camber and elasticity as my old race skis but have that stable foundation that I can put energy in and get that energy out.. For me it is a consistent amount of energy and that is how my skiing style is.. Infact my last 2 pairs of race skis had a dampening/support system right next to the bindings which both made them less elastic and more supportive which goes with my ski style.. I still get some elasticity but not too much to make the skis reactive.. The reason I need metal in my skis while skiing in the West is for dampness.. Dampness helps when I am on the rock hard groomers and it helps when I ski crud and it helps when I ski sticky snow and it helps when I ski crust.. My Enforcer 104 Free have a lot more float than my Stormrider 105 because of the rocker.. Even my Stormrider 88 doesn't have much camber.. My DPS Wailer F100 has a lot more camber and it does not use titanal but it does use fiberglass and epoxy to dampen the ski.. The QST 106 also uses flax to dampen the ski.. The QST 106 also has a lot of camber and a lot of rocker.. The QST 106 and the DPS F100 are both very stable skis.. There sidewalls are a lot thicker than my Enforcer 104 and my Stormrider 105..

This is really interesting when we think about how Stöckli uses of two layers but then makes that s-cut in the tip and tail - like double is too much so they had to dial it back?

Hi, Elliot. I have been watching your channel since you had 30 subscribers. I really like your videos. Please keep doing what you are doing :) Anyways, I have a favor. Could you do the carbon version of the video, too?

A ski physics paper would be fantastic

Thanks Elliot very educational I enjoy how you explain things! It's great ski nerding out in the summer with you and everyone else here! I can't deal with Ski Monster, he lost me on the whole 1-ski quiver rant. I think they're more geared for the beginner-newb side of skiing. I appreciate all the knowledge you have on a range of topics. As a Gold Bug, never imagined I'd hear about gold flaked meat or drinks here! Ironic I was watching Margin Call yesterday :)

I’d like to see two titanal layers bonded and then observe the “stiffer” version. I agree with the titanal affecting the threshold as the bonding is more in tension.

Titanal is pretty floppy and flimsy by itself as he demonstrated. But, put it into a sandwich between layers of wood and resin and other materials, and any flex is potentially going to translate into that metal layer as TENSION. That's where the spring and energy comes from... stretch/spring within the metal properties. Metal is known for its stress, strain, elongation, yield, and permanent deformation (all levels of tension put into the material and how it reacts).

Ppl here on the east coast, even ski shops think u can only ski with titanal/metal.. and they think it's making it stiff to cut through ice.. does none of that.. really just dampens the vibration in my experience

As with everything, I think there is a mixture of truth, along with some misunderstanding. It would make sense to me that higher performance carving skis would not only use more metal, but also use other construction techniques and materials that support high-end carving. I do believe metal contributes to stiffness, both longitudinally and torsionally as well as energy threshold and dampness, but you have to look at overall construction including other materials as well. A single layer is designed to work in combination with the other layers. This should be pretty obvious, I think…

Hi Elliott 😊 I think it would be a good idea if you have a discussion with one of these creators. “Tennisnerd” has been having interviews with other RU-vid creators and the format (I think) is excellent. Just a thought 🤔

i wish i could try the Ripsticks with titanal :D. would it fix what i dislike about the otherwise "most fun ski ever" even if it takes out a little bit of fun? (yes even the black edition is missing some dampening/torsional stiffness/??? imho)

As an engineer, ski monster's comments hurts me. You don't ski titanal as a 0.5mm layer. You ski it as part of a stack of materials where it affect the bending properties.

Interesting topic & video ~ can someone explain what a "tailored titanal frame" is? Looking at the specs for my kendos and that is what is has ...is that the same as a layer of titanal?

Don't think I've skied on a ski with Titanal. I've never even heard the word till today. Am I really missing out?!

Doesn't it also matter if the titanal (or any other material) "wraps" from the horizontal plane, onto the "sidewall"/vertical plane where it creates a torsion box?

XO (exonde) skis have no metal, and they are great, even on moderate ice.

I have literally no idea what I’m talking about 😂but I always assumed once the metal was attached to something like wood it wouldn’t want to stretch/flex at the same rate as the wood especially if it were in the underside, which would change the flex? They definitely engineer varied thicknesses for something other than dampening I imagine. Imagine being the key word here. I wouldn’t think that K2’s Y or Black Crows H would be primarily a dampening agent. Forgetting which maker it is but at least one of them put the metal vertically between wood laminates. Seems like that would be pretty stiff similar to paper not wanting to bend along its edge. Ski essentials just put out a tour of Blizzard( fyi it’s blizzard like the English word) where they talked about how the characteristics of metal changes as you get away from the center of mass in either direction, 🤷‍♂️ but I was only half listening. LOL.

But do we all need Titanal?

Content creation 101: -provide half truths -stir the pot -profit Its good discussion nonetheless, overall you ski on a cake not on separate layers.

Let’s ask ourselves how does DPS make some great skis with no Titanal? Yes. Carbon. Titanal is such a misleading metal definition. What metal did Head use in their first metal ski? Not Titanal. 🤪