You know you’re a badass when those genocidal maniacs literally put their genociding on hold as they’re preparing to genocide, just because they notice you!
I would love to see more of the time war, how a civilization that considered The TARDIS obsolete came to be reduced to solders running around of foot shooting lazerbeams at invincible trashcans.
They never thought the TARDIS was obsolete. They put away that one particular TARDIS that the doctor has because it was defective. Because it was stuck as one object the phone box. Based on the info from the show the TARDIS is supposed to be able to change into any object.
They used up everything they had in the war. In the end, warfare always goes back to conventional warfare because of the lack of resources. Just like the people of Skaro were reduced to World War One level of technology before the invention of the Daleks due to a thousand year war.
@Jamie Bowler I think the series 1 theme works better in expressing the immense power of a single dalek whereas The Dark and Endless Dalek Night is better for a full scale dalek fleet
I mean, they basically did with Big Finish and Audio Books. P.s All the audio books are indeed canon, and the acting is fantastic, people just don't like them because they can't see it only hear it. There is only so much they can do onscreen for the Time War since is costs too much visually, however in the audio books they have free roam.
@GiantGoblin True, but it's unlikely they'll do the same with War considering the Actor was a pretty famous one as well as his passing being very recent.
It would be awesome but I don’t think it would stand to how horrible we would imagine it to really be, I imagine it being a war so brutal that both sides and whatever other races were involved created weapons that were so horrid or impossible that merely thinking about them would give a dalek ptsd, I think it’s better left to the imagination
Going by what the Christopher Eccleston version of the Doctor stated there were Ten Million Dalek ships at this battle. Also stated Dalek ships have about Two Thousand Daleks aboard each ship. That means the Daleks had an invasion force of Twenty Billion Dalek against the people of Gallifry. No matter how advanced the Time Lords were, the Daleks could just drown them in numbers alone.
The doctor says there’s a billion billion Daleks but if they knew there was three doctors they’d send for reinforcements, super arrogant but so super cool too.
"A war to end all wars [...] And in that battle there was a man with more blood on his hands than any other. A man who would commit a crime that would silenced the universe. And that man was me." Chilling !
Batmanmarch did an 8th doctor action figure series that has most of what was mentioned in the time war such as the gates of Elysium, the nightmare child, and the fall of Arcadia if I recall correctly though the series involves the 8th doctor rather than the war doctor as he wrote the story before the war doctor was introduced. He had the time war occur in his third season while his first season gave a resolution to the dalek civil then during the second season the daleks are preparing for the time war while hiding.
Read _Engines of War_ and listen to the Big Finish series _The War Doctor_ , _The War Master_ , _The Eighth Doctor: The Time War_ , and _Gallifrey_ . They all deal with the Time War in detail.
"You weren't there in the final days of the war. You never saw what was born. If the time lock is broken then everything is coming through. Not just the Daleks, but the Skaro Degradations, The Horde of Travesties, The Nightmare Child, The Could-Have-Been King with his Army of Meanwhiles and Never-weres. The War Turned Into Hell. And that's what you've opened. Right above the Earth. Hell Is Descending!"
The Dalek is confused by the words because in the middle of a battle that will end a war that has last over 400 years, between the oldest and mightiest race in the universe, by their own modest opinion, and the most aggressive xenophobic species that ever existed, the personification of hate itself, the Doctor has chosen to write his final judgement of the two alien species in the Human language of English.
It has been explained in the show that the TARDIS has universal translation circuits that can show us nearly any language translated, that's why we as viewers are watching the show as though the circuits are affecting us.
But then why in the ending scene of when a good man goes to war the gallifreyan symbols written on the cot are not translated? (assuming the War Doctor is writing in gallifreyan)
The Daleks at the height of their power. Ten million Dalek ships involved in the siege of Gallifrey, enough to blot out the sun with not only ships but ground and air forces. Brought the Time Lords to their knees.
Then realise that despite all the Dalek might, the moment there is a possibility that the Doctor is in their vicinity, groups of Daleks instantly stop what they are doing and prioritise him because of how dangerous he is. If that ain't power over the Daleks I don't know what is.
@@jonarbuckle778 It's not really power over the Daleks as such, he's their number one enemy. As far as they're concerned, eliminating him removes the one thing that stands in their way.
@@dmaxwell910901 idk how to tell you this but if you're the only thing standing in the way of a genocidal race of invincible beings, you most certainly have power over them
I always wondered if, because it is said that the Time Lords had used up all of their massive weapons, and the war was reduced to what we see here, if that also means the Time Lords brought the other Tardis out of storage. Was there at some point, hundreds of Tardis of different models and such flying around knocking down enemies and Suiciding into ships?
this happend not long before the first doctor /tom baker he mention that they came to his homeworld and nearly destroyed them and he held the key to killing them but didn't and they ended up coming to his planet because of him that why later hes called a renegade timelord. i thing this war was mostly just timelords fighting across time but ever time they lose a loop of loss and this is before the dalek have time machines of there own so there simply dying but still wining only slightly if i recall they steal it in this war.
@@grantwalter2243most were just research vessels like the Doctor's, designed to carry teams to observe other cultures stealthily. Later models like the one piloted by the Master during the events of Logopolis did have offensive capabilities as well (the Master stunned a group of security guards using an electrical discharge from his ship).
Yeah. I mean, Transduction barrier, Sky trenches (a 'lot' of them), quantum Force Field, fake gallifreys and who knows what other defenses time lords have created... especially in time war... it just seems a bit (a lot) far fetched that Daleks (even if they 'were' powerful enough to fight time lords to stalemate, at the time) would be able to get pass that amount of defenses to actually attack them...unless, someone who is powerful enough, and has access to system from the inside. Someone who was mad enough to do such a thing, someone who... is the lord president of Gallifrey.
William Norton yes! which would make his character even more interesting. That act is a war crime against time lords 'at least'. It would make a wonderful episode(s) in if they were to make one... Rassilon charged as a war criminal on time lord trial (like the doctor was once) and the Doctor is one of the witnesses... it would also give opportunities to bring back Romana as the prosecutor. A politics behind time war, the heinous acts committed by Rassilon, charges would take 'years' to list. It's just so plausible.
I love how this is the last day, there’s just something so interesting about that. All the weapons on both sides have been used up and so much has happened. The nightmare child and the hell creatures are all gone. The master has abandoned ship by this point and so has the cult of skaro. It’s really just the Doctor now.
“This is one corner… of one country, in one continent, on one planet that’s a corner of a galaxy that’s a corner of a universe that is forever growing and shrinking and creating and destroying and never remaining the same for a single millisecond. And there is so much, so much to see.” - The Doctor, Season 7, Episode 4
3:11 After your teammates significantly reduce the team member's health, and your the one who just comes in takes the kill and get's all the glory and points.
Yeah, i always found this part of Dr Who to be wierd. The single greatest empire in the universe is ruled by cosplayers and was brought down by salt shakers with a whisk and plunger each, and their soldiers have loose fitting plastic looking armor with inaccurate lasers. I'm fairly certain the guard at least goes prepared into a battle, even the penal legions
@@andrewdowns9047 the Time Lords aren't really an empire tho, there is no need to conquer other worlds if you have bigger-in-the-inside machines, infinite power and resource replication. But yes, I expected unimaginable weird cosmic weapons, not budget Star Wars in Day of the Doctor lol.
@@netbotcl586 You have to imagine that this war has been going on for 400 years in a linear sense, and who knows how many centuries outside of time. the Daleks and Time Lords have already thrown every single one of their superweapons etc against eachother, and they're now reduced to throwing rocks at one another and seeing who bleeds out first.
The Time Lords didn't exactly have an empire but they meddled deeply in the development of other worlds that they predicted would be a near-peer adversary. They wanted to remain the sole temporal superpower in the universe and even tasked the Doctor with handling the Daleks, but the Doctor let them be, and eventually the Daleks developed into a near-peer adversary, but with a bloodlust. This was all before the Time Lords decided to not interfere, which is odd because they didn't want to interfere during the 2nd Doctor's tenure, but asked the 4th Doctor to interfere. Who knows which order is which? Let's not forget the death games in early Gallifrey's history, too.
@@devan6935 Ever since I've seen these complaints I've thought the same thing. Why can't people just enjoy the scene? It's honestly an amazing opening scene with the music.
If you've read "The Engines of War" like I have, you and I *both* understand the meaning of the "No More" message The Doctor sent to both the Time Lords and the Daleks better than either the Time Lords *or* the Daleks. It was his last promise to Cinder, his last companion before he met his future selves in this episode, and regenerated after the events of this episode. That's the cutest thing about this war. 😍😭 After The Doctor met Cinder, he finally got the urge to be The Doctor again. He was ready to *regain* the right to be The Doctor again. And I was absolutely devastated when he lost Cinder due to the ridiculousness of Karlax. I love this so much! 😍😍😍
The gallirey has at most 4000 sky trenches so they could not bombard it but your probably saying “then how did these lot get through” that’s because someone switched of one of the sky trenches and it was believed to be a rogue who had seen what the time lords have done to the “lesser civilisations” during the first years of the time war
Anybody else think Christopher Eclestiens performance was one of the best, he showed true hatred, and it allowed for amazing character progression, and whenever he saw the Daleks. Best scenes of the show in my opinion.
Agree. Really all the actors have done amazing showing The Doctor hate for them. I really loved Matt Smith showing the Doctor hate for them in Victory of the Daleks as well.
The shot of the Dalek at 1.24 is one of my favourite shots in all of Doctor WHO. For all those 50 years we had the Daleks referred to as this great threat, this all conquering force, but bless the Special FX at the BBC, what we saw on screen was never up to it. Until that shot. When they look terrifying.
How did the daleks become so powerful that they could match the time lords? I mean if they can't even defeat the Doctor a single time lord, how did they manage to battle the time lords race on equal terms?
The Daleks have been aware of the Time Lords since their creation as the Time Lords sent the Doctor to wipe them out. By the McCoy era they were capable of Time travel and has sufficient knowledge of Time Lord technology to locate the Hand of Omega, Stands to reason that sooner or later a race bent on survival at the cost of genocide would reach a level where they could match the time lords, or at least reach a point where the Time Lords couldn’t stop them easily. As for why they can’t defeat the Doctor, well, he’s the Doctor.
I once read something that put it like this, the Doctor is the single most paradoxical being in the universe, the Daleks are so unsure of what the future incarnations might do, something that could be vital in the creation of the Daleks or something else that would majorly benefit them, hell killing him could destroy the universe (including the Daleks with it) so they’re too scared to kill him for what the bleeding effect could be.
Because the Daleks in the Tenant Era where Exactly as horrifying as they should be. Then the Matt smith era came and nurfed them. The daleks used to make Kid viewers shit their Pants the moment the chorus came on. Main characters and most of that episodes cast would die. Then They where reduced to nothing more then a comic villain.
Ironically that's how he survived in the original timeline - as punishment from the Moment. He was forced to witness the devastation and then allowed to leave in the TARDIS.
My main issue (and I don’t really mean issue, I loved this episode) is that it seems a massive tactical error for every single Dalek ship to be involved in the attack, especially if it seems clear that they would win by this point. Surely they must have been aware that the Time Lords might have had a powerful last resort weapon? Even if they did not specifically know what it was
Considering how insane the war was prior to this battle they likely weren’t willing to take any chances, they wanted to overwhelm the time lords before they could do anything
The Dalek’s invasion of Earth had them sadistically shoot civilians instead of the guys shooting them first. They can simply be evil and wanting to kill for the sake of it.
The Dalek Emperor had already sent the Cult of Skaro between universes in a Void Ship by this point, along with a Gallifreyan Genesis Ark (a prison ship containing millions of captured Daleks). So, yes, the Daleks had made contingency plans.
The VFX crew DELIVERED HARD on this. 10 years old and it looks great as ever, especially for TV. Saw this in the theater. This, being the 50th, wasn't just a "special," it was a full blown movie.
I know this is an old comment but the Last Great Time War would make the War in Heaven look like a mild slapping contest between two challenged people. It is the single most destructive War in the history of fiction. Considering that the Daleks and Time Lord's had weapons that would make the Chaos gods beg for mercy and the Old Ones to turn tail and GTFO of reality...yeah. for once 40k is UNDERPOWERED.
You got to think how hopeless this is... Either way, it would've resulted in the destruction of the universe... The Time Lords were as crazed as the Daleks by this point. So it was extermination or "ascension." As such, the Doctor didn't have a choice. Plus, both sides were basically on the edge of collapse, although not EVERY single Dalek was on Gallifrey (some survived, Dalek Runaways, and more) it was pretty much it for both races. They also were basically leadershipless. The Daleks were run by an insane Emperor who basically had lost it at this point (search up Rassilon addresses the Dalek Emperor. He's always been nuts). Rassilon had also lost pretty much lost it, leaving their governance in the control of local forces or second-in-commands (e.g. War Table of Gallifrey and Dalek Time Strategist, if it was even still alive) who couldn't even do anything as the other two basically had full power to continue this fruitless war.
I wish they had been slightly more creative with this, from what we had hard previously the time war was full of unspeakable horrors set on to the universe by both sides and the final act of the time war had basically set most of the universe back to square one with no war after it to even hold a match to it. Understandable that mind shattering lovecraften horrors might be a bit over the budget or hard to display on screen BUT I would’ve hoped for a little more than generic sci-fi war zone.
One thing I’d change is instead of that five second pause, have the daleks kill the father and then that’s when their attention is distracted by the Doctor being located. Would have added more tension in my eyes.
The Nightmare Child was defeated in the first year of the Time War, at the Gates of Elysium. The Skaro Degradations were possibly wiped out a few days before this scene by the Doctor, or at least dealt a heavy blow. They were never the Daleks best, anyway. The Horde of Travesties, and the Army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres remain a mystery.
HighSlayer Ralton Some people speculate the Could Have Been King and his army of Meanwhiles and Neverwheres was a veiled reference to Omega and his anti-matter minions. The idea being that he was freed by the Timelords to fight in the war only to turn against both factions.
@Dankenstein Davros lured it to the Gates of Elysium in the hopes of destroying it, then the Gates closed on it. tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Nightmare_Child
This is the end of a conflict that I believe started before the fourth doctors mission to skaro to avert there creation. He was sent by a member of the celestial intervention agency, who had intel on a possible future war. How did they get that intel? When the second doctor was eventually caught and put on trial for interference and stealing a TARDIS, the second doctor justified his actions by showing the high council a visual account of all the evils he'd fought. The high council didn't seem impressed by the quarks, ice warriors or even the Cybermen. But when he described the daleks, this seemed to instil a fear in the high council. The doctors punishment should have been death, but the high council passed this information to the agency, who suggested that instead, park the doctor on earth in exile whilst they figure out what this dalek threat could be, then use the doctor as and when they need to. They did this and looked into the possibility engine and where horrified by what they saw coming. The CIA would manipulate the doctor here and there whilst in exile on earth to see to some of there other interests whilst they decided how they would deal with the future dalek threat.the omega affair put a halt to the situation, but it also showed that the doctor could do what's necessary without the timelords getting there hands dirty. They gave him his freedom back, but at a price. They decided that the daleks had to be destroyed at there creation and the doctor would be willing to do it. It never occurred to them that the doctor would hesitate and that the daleks would notice. They did and that's when the time war became inevitable.
I just wanna remind ppl that this lazer shooting thing might look advanced, but this is like two group of adult throwing pebble at each others compared to the rest of the Time war
the time war is refereed to as such because all of time was burning during it. time itself would be destroyed and the universe along with it unless the doctor stopped it
Very late to this comment but this is the final day of the time war. Besides "The moment" both sides have used all their reality shattering weapons, it's like if the world had a war so long we ran out of tanks, aircraft, ships and guns. We'd go back and back until we were hitting eachother with rocks. This is the time war equivalent
Watching this has made me think of The Dark Knight Rises-of Bane saying, “Victory has made you weak”, or something in relevance to the whole Time war and the _glories_ of the Gallifreyan Empire.
Piriatehat I don’t think they should explore the time war on a visual medium. A war that’s filled with temporal weirdness and lovecraftian horrors wouldn’t translate well on screen with a BBC budget. That’s why the expanded media Time war stories are so good, because they don’t have such restraints
They either 1. Didn't have any regenerations left 2. They got killed in the middle of the regeneration cycle, which is probably what happened because Daleks were shooting everywhere.
Only Time Lords could regenerate, not every gallifreyan could regenerate. That or it's just something that needed to happen for plot and shouldn't be too overlooked. EDIT: Should have specified that the Time Lords were not the only race on gallifrey, it's a whole complex thing just look deep into the wiki's for more info
Why do i feel like the Doctor is much more powerful than any other timelord? I mean seriously, why don't the timelords just use their TARDISes to ram the daleks like the doctor? Seems like an efficient way to kill daleks.
Why would a Time Lord even bother asking mercy from a Dalek? This guy must be from out in the country or something... (edit: noticed I've been misspelling "Time Lord")
Hiccup Hufflepuff instinct to beg for your life. From the enemy pointing a gun at you, from the animal eyeing you for its next meal, from God for any help.
Most Gallifreyans are not Timelords. They are all strong, smart and can regenerate but the majority just live on Gallifrey and don't interact with the outside universe.
I’d like to see a Doctor Who arch where the doctor and company dentally sent to an alternate universe where are the Daleks are actually good and they are like protectors of the universe and have families and are the exact opposite of our universe Daleks.
0:29 is an underrated scene because it doesn’t show all the might and potential of the Daleks. Only one Dalek could annihilate an entire country’s population on earth. So imagining a billion billion Daleks invading a planet at once like this is hard to imagine. Mainly because what we see in the day of the Doctor is only a small proportion of the planetary invasion of gallifrey.
What makes this truly terrifying is that Arcadia was not inhabited by time lords, the people in this clip are just regular Gallifreyans, with only one life. They don’t have even close to the amount of weapons that the time lords had. They might as well be throwing rocks at the Daleks. The fall of Arcadia was effectively genocide, there was no chance for the Gallifreyans to come out victorious, which is probably why it took the doctor so long to come to terms with baring witness to this particular event in comparison to the other atrocities of the war.
bro wtf im seeing all kinds of lore like this that was never in the show. Difference between Gallifreyans and Time Lords? Why is the Doctor so special? where do you find all this and WHERE can I access the old 60s damn show?
Notice how the War Council is meeting in a chamber shaking from the planetary bombardment, while in the End of Time, Rassilon, the High Council and the assembly of Time Lords were all meeting in a heavily protected underground bunker? I can't think why the Gallifreyans lost faith in their government during and after the Time War.
PRINCE KRAZIE at this point there was no choice. The Daleks and Timelords had been building up to it for a long time, the matrix had been warning them for decades. The CIA went to extreme methods to try and stop them (attempting to avert their creation and resurrecting the Master) and even then the Daleks still persisted. And then the Daleks attacked their allies
I just happened to have found out how to make it work multi space arc reactors x mega energy wave lengths x all feed back loops x palaidum cyclotrons x all Chrono feed back loops x all anti Chrono feed back loops
I find it kind of funny that, even though daleks don’t technically have faces, it’s very easy to imagine what their facial expressions are when they speak
