Doctor Who Reaction - "The Wedding of River Song" - Matt Smith ▶ September Schedule ◀ Monday - Dark Wednesday - Doctor Who Friday - FMAB House of the Dragon PATREON - / filmbuff INSTAGRAM - / imsardar TWITTER - / _filmbuff_
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Also, Amy's "the Doctor isn't here" "she didn't get it all from you, sweetie" is so badass i loved it 😍🔥 Kinda dark but justifiably so, i love when they get dark in this show
a lot of people say that this wedding isn't real and use that as an argument to claim the doctor never had real feelings for river but, as we've already seen in the library, she DOES know his name. And the tenth doctor says "there's only one reason I would ever tell anyone my name, only one time I could" so they must have had another wedding some other time :)
That's silly. There's so much proof to the contrary that I see. He might not be all that deeply in love with her yet, but he cares. Plus if anything I find handfasting cuter than rings lol. Can't say anything more cause spoilers ;] But I agree with you. Plus a wedding is personal ceremony, the ones who decide it means something are the spouses. As far as weddings go, restarting time is pretty epic lol
I think the main fault of this finale was that it was squeezed into one episode. I think there was plenty enough story to explore in a two parter and I always thought Closing Time felt like a filler episode (beside the ending) so it didn’t make sense for it to be a single part finale. If it were a two part finale, I believe it would go something like this: First part: Silence will Fall -The scene at the end of Closing Time where River investigates the Doctor’s death and gets kidnapped would be at the start of the first episode. -Intro credits play -The first act of the episode will show Doctor coping with the fact that he is going to die and decides to stop running from it. -But before he goes, he wants to know why he has to die and thus hunts down anyone who knows anything about the Silence. Dorium and Gideon Vandaleur being some of them. -After finding Dorium in the basement and discovering the Silence’s motives, the Doctor decides that it was time to die. -We see the beach picnic scene from the first episode again. Only this time we see the whole truth with River in the suit. -River refuses to kill the Doctor and time erases with a bright flash. -End credits Second Part: The Wedding of River Song -Very similar to the real finale where time has gone wibbly wobbly. The only difference is that we don’t get a backstory to how it happened because that was the whole point of the first part of the finale. This means the final episode can explore more on the topics that it introduced like all of time happening at once, the entire universe collapsing because of the paradox or expanding more on the silence plot.
On the beach river doesn't remember, but as you say, she fires the gun several times and then says "or course not" implying that she does realise and that time won't let her gun work. When she says she pretended to not recognise the astronaut suit, I think she meant when they encounter the little girl and the damaged suit.
“Did you really think that when your time came you’d have to do more than just ask?” I forgive all this finale’s faults with the above quote and River’s speech. It gets me, every time.
Here's some Classic Who trivia if you're interested. I remember you saying you're not particularly interested in checking out the classis series, but I'll warn you that there are some specific details (nothing New Who-related you haven't seen, though). The phone call the Doctor makes was to a character named Brigadier Alastair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart (fantastic name). The character first appeared with the Second Doctor, became a main character during the Third Doctor's era, and then made some appearances for the later Classic Doctors. Despite some headbutting, he and the Doctor became strong and close friends. He is such a popular character that he's often people's favorite character alongside the Doctor. The actor who plays him, Nicholas Courtney, had actually first appeared with the First Doctor, but he was playing a different character. Knowing all of that, and numerous accounts from cast and fans that he's was a very kind and pleasant man, it's no surprise his legacy with Doctor Who is big and strong. Nicholas Courtney had died around the time Series 6 was made so this was the show's way of saying farewell.
Enjoying your reviews :-) I've been a fan of Doctor Who since the late 1970s, and I think it's the best show ever made. Nice to see people discover and appreciate it for the first time! I look forward to seeing more of your videos.
I actually really liked this finale, it could have been better but the relationship between the Doctor and river here is wonderful and to me the robot reveal is just awesome and brilliant
I would love to see a top 5/10 episodes ranking up to this point! Here is mine: 1) Season 5 finale (x2) 2) Season 6 finale 3) Season 5 weeping angles (x2) 4) Season 4 silence in the library (x2) 5) Season 6 let's kill hitler Honourable mentions: family of blood (x2), 11th hour, unicorn and the wasp, and midnight. As you see, i really enjoy this finale. It is incredibly fun, with the focus being on character relationships, especially between the Doctor and River.I also like the fast pacing, in direct contrast to early season finale's slow, dragging pacing. It also wraps up most of season 6's story satisfyingly and has some heartfelt moments.
This is my least favourite Moffat-era season finale, but it still has its moments. The good news is that you're heading into season 7 and the 50th Anniversary special. Based on your schedule you should hit it just around Christmas. What a treat!
obviously not as good as the big bang but i'd still put it as the 2nd or 3rst best finale so far along with the parting of the ways. some great stuff in here and due to the structure of the series it's kind of in a difficult place because we've already resolved most of the plot. this episode is just finding out how the doctor survived + the doctor deciding to trust river which he did not at the start of the series.
If you didnt know when the doctor is called about the brigadiers death the brigadier is a character from classic doctor who, who is a good friend of the doctor
This is a good episode... Well, any episode that includes River is a good episode. Anyway, I think this is where the turn happens with River and the Doctor, in a way their relationship changes. It has obious reasons why, they got married. Now the Doctor knows River. At this point we know a lot about Rive. Now we know who she is (one of the biggests questions in Doctor who's history),we know why she is in prison and now we have seen how she got married to the Doctor. We might think what is next. River actually did remember the space suit and that she killed the Doctor on the beach. She reminds Amy that the Doctor lies and so does she. River has to pretend that she doesn't know that Amy is her mother and that she didn't recognise the space suit (even though she did). So basically, the Doctor only thought that River didn't remember.
My apologies if I cone across as a bit rude, don't mean to, but about River as in what is yet to come, it's better not to give any ideas what so ever, not even the littlest hint about not worrying, reactors don't like that. However, you gave a very good explanation about what happened this episode, so points for that. Kind regards.
Not one of the show's, or Moffat's, best episodes/finales. As many say, it is a bit messy and some ideas do not quite add up. However, there are still some fantastic ideas and great moments. You are probably right that it would be better paced over 2 episodes. That said, I would much rather see a show misstep because it is being too ambitious or trying to cram in too many ideas than playing safe and lacking imagination. (Chris Chibnall - I am looking at you!) So - it is not the best but still enjoyable. And Amy gets some great lines - "The name's Pond...James Pond" (a nod ot James Bond). When she says "She didn't get it all from you, Sweetie" and my favourite line - "And I'm his...mother-in-law".
to me, one of the greatest sins of series 6 was focusing too much on the Doctor, even though this series should've been about River. Most of the ideas surrounding her character are barely explored. In Let's Kill Hitler we learned that she had more than one adult regeneration and that she was Amy's best friend growing up: both of these facts aren't acknowledged again in a season about River's origin.
eh. most of his series have excellent finales. eleventh hour-a good man goes to war is basically flawless story arc stuff from moffat. hes also really the only showrunner who actually tried story arcs. shit like bad wolf is not an arc.
Although this episode does suffer by being a single part finale, Moffat in fairness was trying to do something pretty ambitious... a five-part opener middle-act finale combo. 😎 T Davies could *never* lmao. As for River putting on an act on the beach, it seems to me that at the time of shooting they may have been deciding to go with River not being able to remember being in the Astronaut suit, which would make sense had the events gone off without a hitch as the Doctor had planned, (aside from her unique genetic variation giving her the ability to know and remember alternate timelines, which kind of invalidates her having forgotten it in the first place... unless her proximity to the Silents caused her memory to become pock-marked. Even the Doctor, a full Gallifreyan Time Lord can't remember them...) And then later because she broke the chain of events by not finishing the job, the reality split off into the alternate timeline with everything happening at once... I have a very vague memory of hearing from Moffat et al that three months progressed in the alternate timeline, (which explains the Doctor's hair) from when she refused to kill the Doctor, to the reunification on top of the pyramid. For such a long stretch of time it would make sense that even a Human Time Lord would be able to remember the sequence of events due to that duration. So that's why she remembers (because there was so much batshit crazy stuff happening in the alternate timeline that there's something to differentiate from. Also likely why Amy remembers also I'd say.) "it was kind of to appease River Song..." Yes... but also no. There's two particular blink-and-you-miss-it moments of Matt's performance that kind of reveals a little bit... Go back and have a look at them... On the beach when the Doctor instructs the younger River Song to look back up the beach, she remarks that "that's me..." and there is the _quickest_ and briefest little cut-back to Matt where he's just like "you better damn believe it's you." He looks so absolutely in awe of her and very aware of it. And then the other, which is far more important in regards to this question... Comes from their scene during their little military wedding ceremony lol. Right after the Doctor presses her on how much she'll suffer for killing him (to which she replies yes,) there is the _briefest_ moment at the beginning of a shot on Matt where he's actually crying quite a lot (it's none of the close ups from over the shoulder, it's side-on at an angle, mid-shot.) It's right after she's emphatically told him that she'll suffer more than every living thing in the universe and it cuts right back to him and it's tearing him to absolute _pieces_ to know how much it'll tear her apart to know that she killed him. It's literally only a few scant frames before Matt flicks his eyes over at the Ponds, remembers that they're there observing all this and then immediately goes into berating her as a protection strategy ("why do you have to _be_ this...") He's angry at her, yes, but he's angry at her because she makes him feel exposed and vulnerable in front of people he's supposed to be the hero for, (let alone her goddamn *parents* I mean Christ, how _embarrassing.)_ Because here's the rub... River's not upset that she has to kill him (or at least, not primarily so,) she's upset that her destiny is again being imposed on her by the Silence. Remember, Melody Pond was created to kill the Doctor. At this point, she's taken on the persona (and promise) of River Song, and River Song *saves* the Doctor (like she did in Berlin. She shirks the purpose the Silence has tooled her for and completely flips their table by bringing him back to life.) Here she's being stuffed back into the identity of Melody Pond and forced to do the first thing she ever managed to resist through her own force of will. So for River, this moment isn't so much about killing him as it's about being stripped of her chosen identity _and the Doctor knows what that's like._ Because she does explain that she'll go through with it, but not before reiterating to at least *someone,* someone who's seen her as more than a murderer, as more than a forgone conclusion, that she is not just a pawn in the grander scheme of things. That's why she says "I can't let you die, without knowing you a loved (by me.)" Instead of being hunted and hated by her, he's loved by her, because she chose that. But she's wise enough now to know that this isn't what he'd want, so she's going to kill him and suffer the consequences anyway because _that's what he taught her to do._ He taught her how he was different from what the Silence brainwashed her to believe. He taught her who the Doctor really was. And the Doctor is the Oncoming Storm, the man who can turn an army around at the mention of his name... And this man forgives her (what he says to her on the stairs as he dies in Let's Kill Hitler afterall, is the same thing he says here, "always and completely forgiven.") He demonstrates to her that he _is_ everything the Silence said he is... because he was willing to take those consequences for the greater good. He knew he couldn't save Pompeii, he knew he couldn't retrieve Melody. The same way he knew he couldn't end the Time War without loosing everything he ever loved, everything that ever game him a place, an identity, a home. _But he did it anyway._ Because it was the right thing to do. That's who the Doctor is. And with River accepting all of the hurt and suffering she'll bear by being bent to the Silence's will, she's showing him that she understands that now. But he still knows what that burden is like... and so he relents and marries her. But more, he relents and lets her in on his little slight-of-hand, because when he sees her taking on all of that suffering, crying her eyes out because of the hurt... it tears him apart too because he does actually care about her. And this comes more from things that Matt has said over the years at conventions (and even then he's a little bit blasé about it interestingly enough, quite like the character,) but he once said when asked if the Doctor actually loved River that "the Doctor really does love River and he *knows* that he loves her." But the Doctor is quite uncomfortable with being vulnerable when he's the one who's supposed to make the hard decisions, and so when pressed into this moment of crisis, with the Ponds there observing this extremely exposing exchange (there's a reason why the camera keeps going back to them, and there's a reason why his eyes do too, he's very aware of their presence through the whole scene,) he finds an action that is meaningful and in at least some kind of way will get across to River what he's trying to say (because the Doctor is far more demonstrative than wordy in these regards, especially in front of other people,) and so he marries her. And then _honours_ that pledge. (If you've seen the First Night & Bad Night shorts now, you'll know that he immediately goes to her first night in prison and whisks her away.) And River _believes_ it. It's very interesting to note that when Amy expresses her discomfort over her actions towards Madame Kovarian in the alternate timeline River points out that it all happened in an aborted timeline in a world that never was... But then also proclaims herself to be his wife, which also happened in that reality. For them, for a pair of Time Lords who can see and read and know multiple realities... From their perspective, they're getting married, reuniting the broken pieces of time across every moment in history. That's pretty fkn romantic for this jaded, crabby old man, so near the end.
I don’t dislike this finale. It’s fun and it’s watchable. But it just misses something that the others have. It being a one part finale doesn’t help either. Better than S3 finale, but not the other 4.
The Series 6 finale is by far the most lacklustre finale of NuWho. All the others, despite varying quality, always FELT like a finale of Doctor Who. This one just didn't do anything for me.
Yep, messy is moffats middle name... he likes his complex arcs but rarely has satisfying payoffs... he's pretty good at individual episodes though, especially under RTD ....
moffat often has satisfying payoffs. his finales are generally excellent. this isnt even really the payoff to his arcs despite being the finale. the opening episodes and a good man goes to war cover the important stuff. this is just a bonus episode to find out how the doctor survived more than anything.
People seem to hate this episode. It’s not the best finale at all but there are worse and it definitely doesn’t deserve the hate. The only thing I really really dislike though is the Doctor being a robot reveal. I wish the switch happened sometime after he arrived at the pyramid but before he got to the top at the very least. The doctor has been acting completely normally the whole episode, goofy, animated, swishing this way and the next, having banter, telling jokes, being scared and showing actual emotion and desperation with River. To then say all this was fake and it’s a bunch of tiny people controlling him when we see how blank the robot is in let’s kill Hitler just undermines and delegitimizes every thing the Doctor says or does in the entire episode. As it’s not real. Even him with the beard as the soothsayer. It’s fake. It’s so lazy. Moffat thinks ‘pull the rug out from underneath you reveals’ are enough to shock people without thinking through whether it actually makes sense or is actually satisfying. I want the doctor to be talking awkwardly to Rory about Amy, I want the doctor to be scared of the silence and I want the doctor to be showing genuine desperation and emotion to River at the top of the pyramid. I hate how it’s a bunch of miniaturized people making his mouth and eyebrows move.
