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Doctor Who Really Messed This Up 

Harbo Wholmes
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The Woman Who Lived could have been one of Doctor Who Series 9's greatest episodes, so what went wrong with it?
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30 авг 2023

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Комментарии : 111   
@HarboWholmes
@HarboWholmes 10 месяцев назад
Support the channel! www.patreon.com/harbowholmes ko-fi.com/harbowholmes
@CobaltXMusic
@CobaltXMusic 10 месяцев назад
Since it's not a two-parter, they could've had this sequel later, closer to the finale when Me becomes relevant. Allows Me to slightly fade away before being re-introduced.
@paulbartram9699
@paulbartram9699 10 месяцев назад
This episode would have benefited so much for being saved for after the zygon episode. Giving the character some space to breathe between adventures.
@Samviking01
@Samviking01 10 месяцев назад
I have always had this opinion too👍
@aeloswindrunner
@aeloswindrunner 10 месяцев назад
Never thought of that before, it would help sell the idea that the Doctor just blundered into Ashildir randomly some time down the line
@dexterhill5843
@dexterhill5843 10 месяцев назад
Yep have to agree. Feels a bit like the doctor immediately bumps into her again to the audience so it feels a tad contrived when its the next episode as if he just bumped into her again the next time he went into the past xD
@jonathonriddle9922
@jonathonriddle9922 3 месяца назад
I bought series 9 on DVD and watched it long after the episodes aired. I was getting tired of the repetitive two-parter format as I was watching the show, and decided to watch the Zygon story in between this and TGWD -- and I'm so glad I did!
@mickys8065
@mickys8065 10 месяцев назад
I agree the fire lion was not good, but I'd have had Ashildr use the eye of Hades as a suicide machine, rather than a murder device. She could've worked out that since it drains whoever it is placed on, she'd be killed quicker than she could be healed. Then, it turns out the eye if Hades drains it's victims life to open a portal, but mortal lives are too fleeting to even start the process, the immortal Ashildr however gets the fully opened portal we see with Sam, and so the doctor has to talk her out of suicide to stop the entire world being invaded or destroyed. You could even have the 2nd first aid kit being used to close the portal, this time on Ashildr again, ensuring she cannot die, ever.
@bloodyneptune
@bloodyneptune 10 месяцев назад
Personally, I hated that they wasted the "reminder to save people" thing was used for this, because he just cursed this girl forever, its a terrible follow up to the original moment. I feel like _The Doctor_ would know the consequence, he knows the limitations of human mind, and the "no good decision" would have been to let her die.
@DeadlyStrych9
@DeadlyStrych9 10 месяцев назад
My thoughts exactly. I think it may have worked slightly better if he had no idea the device he used to bring her back was permanently keeping her alive. That way, it would have truly been a surprise for the Doctor when he encountered Ashildr in The Woman Who Lived. It would solve the “reminder to save people” part while keeping in theme with the Doctor coming face to face with the consequences of his actions in the previous episode.
@yhrandombh
@yhrandombh 10 месяцев назад
This episode was filmed at my old house (attached to main manor house) and i met Peter Capaldi, was sick
@yhrandombh
@yhrandombh 5 месяцев назад
@@tvguy61 absolutely lovely, he came over to us actually saying “and who are these lovely people?”, 9 year old me was in awe.
@steampunkfox4932
@steampunkfox4932 10 месяцев назад
Honestly I’m a bit annoyed that we never got a conclusion on Sam Swift’s fate
@koolersdomain3905
@koolersdomain3905 10 месяцев назад
In the later episodes she said that the healing thing she gave him drained its energy stopping the portal opening killing thing and he lived a normal length life
@steampunkfox4932
@steampunkfox4932 10 месяцев назад
@@koolersdomain3905 ah Harbo must’ve missed that dialogue then
@darynvoss7883
@darynvoss7883 10 месяцев назад
​@koolersdomain3905 you just made all that up... he's never mentioned again in later episodes.
@steampunkfox4932
@steampunkfox4932 10 месяцев назад
@@darynvoss7883 so Harbo was right about him never being mentioned again
@koolersdomain3905
@koolersdomain3905 10 месяцев назад
@@darynvoss7883 you sure? I thought she said it in hell bent or face the raven
@anthonyalles1833
@anthonyalles1833 10 месяцев назад
I just couldn't understand the Doctor's rationale for not taking Ashildr into a future where she could fit better - what harm would that have caused? But the real problem is that the healing disc is just way too powerful a MacGuffin - why would the TIme Lords need regeneration, if they could simply become immortal? - which is probably why it was never discussed before or since.
@vinniequick
@vinniequick 9 месяцев назад
the same reason Ashildir hates it, you lose your sense of yourself, everything about you would die and your forced to suffer throughout out eternity
@anthonyalles1833
@anthonyalles1833 9 месяцев назад
@@vinniequick "you lose your sense of yourself" - That would imply that the point of regeneration is to preserve memory, as opposed to just extend life?
@ganondorf797
@ganondorf797 5 месяцев назад
@@anthonyalles1833 the change that comes with regeneration is probably more a feature than a bug, the changes in personality allowing the Time Lord to move on and reinvent themselves regularly
@aeloswindrunner
@aeloswindrunner 10 месяцев назад
Feels like there's a lot of doctor who episodes that have really good ideas that don't quite land. Also a waste of Ariyon Bakare as Leandro, he's very good in His Dark Materials as Boreal and in Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell as Stephen Black
@darynvoss7883
@darynvoss7883 10 месяцев назад
The "Me" thing allows the ambiguous moment at the end of Heaven Sent where the Doctor says "... is Me".
@joefreeman3087
@joefreeman3087 4 месяца назад
If timings had been different you know Ashildr would've popped up in Torchwood or The Sarah Jane Adventures at some point.
@MarkMichalowski
@MarkMichalowski 10 месяцев назад
Yes, very much this! Plus... 1 - I suspect that Ashildur only adopted the name "Me" because she had some prescient flashforward to the whole "hybrid" nonsense and the Doctor's line about "The hybrid.... is Me!" - LOL. It would have made as much sense for her to call herself "I". Did she tell other people "Oh, call me 'Me' ", or was "Me" just a name she used when thinking or writing about herself. How would any of this nonsense have actually _worked_ ? 2 - Ashildur played the character exactly the same at the start of it all and at the end. As you point out, Smith is pretty one-note, without the depth (mainly because she's very young) to differentiate between young and very, very, very old. Her origin scenes and her final scenes were pretty much the same person without any character development at all. 3 - Considering she thought of the immortality as a curse, once she had it, it probably makes sense that she had never inflicted it on anyone else (via the second immortality button) that she cared about. But then she does a complete about turn and starts thinking of it as a gift! 4 - Leandro... ++facepalm++
@chrisdiokno5600
@chrisdiokno5600 10 месяцев назад
I mean its possible she COULD eventually have thought of her immortality having benefits
@Maeve_Rose
@Maeve_Rose 4 месяца назад
1) "i am just me" is literally the justification. and it makes perfect sense. "who are you?" "I am me" you dont say "I am I"
@MrGroovyHouse-fe4cw
@MrGroovyHouse-fe4cw 4 месяца назад
@@Maeve_Rose But it doesn't actually work when people are talking to each other ABOUT each other, does it?
@dylanthompson5421
@dylanthompson5421 10 месяцев назад
‘It’s just a shot reverse-shot sequence of the Doctor asking the villains about their plans and they answer it,’ before cutting to Me saying ‘It’s boring’ 💀💀💀💀💀 THE SHADE
@Sparx632
@Sparx632 10 месяцев назад
I liked the setting and humour of this one and while I completely forgot about the lion guy until my rewatch he was kinda interesting too.
@NotAgnor
@NotAgnor 10 месяцев назад
“The episode, I mean” 😭
@peterevans884
@peterevans884 10 месяцев назад
Why was she dressed in 1750 Highwayman dress in the period of Cromwell's commonwealth 1640s ??????? This is a mistake that the original series would never make
@BlueSparxLPs
@BlueSparxLPs 10 месяцев назад
Classic series screwed up the whole name of the Silurians by naming them after the wrong era. In terms of time, that's a much more significant continuity issue (to the point that a later 5th Doctor episode included dialogue to acknowledge it over a decade later).
@beauvogames
@beauvogames 10 месяцев назад
I appreciate your opinions on Maisie's acting in this series. I'm not generally too critical of many actors and their performances but I remember back at the time watching these two initial Ashildr episodes and just feeling she wasn't very good in them and I've only ever seen them that one time. But I'd heard such good things about Game of Thrones (which I hadn't watched at the time), that I worried I was being harsh or unfair. So it's nice to see someone else (whose opinions I've respected and who is also generally very positive about the actors in the show) feel the same and make me feel I wasn't just being mean or something. I think playing an immortal or incredibly old character must be an incredibly difficult thing, especially for a young actor. It's why I admire Matt Smith so much because despite his youth at the time, you immediately bought this sense of his grand age, wisdom and world weariness. You kind of forget he was young. I remember going on to enjoy her performance in a one-off Channel 4 drama, so there's stuff she can be really good in, but I just felt she didn't quite pull this off unfortunately.
@modehead101
@modehead101 9 месяцев назад
Maise was superb in the Games of Thrones which also benefited from better writing and direction than what felt like a real slump in quality for Dr Who at this time despite Capaldi's best efforts to raise the production. Little did we know that the series would get even worse in the years that followed.
@CineScarborough
@CineScarborough 9 месяцев назад
I can't be the only one who would love an Ashildr/Me Big Finish box set where she meets Rufus Hound's Meddling Monk, who leads her to believe he's Sam Swift. The reality is that the Monk met his human counterpart and kidnapped him in his TARDIS so he could take his place.
@glenjennett
@glenjennett 8 месяцев назад
There is a movie called "The Wicked Lady" starring Faye Dunaway that came out in 1983 which is a remake of the 1945 film of the same name and is based on the story of Lady Katherine Ferrers, who you were talking about in the video.
@2ndAttemptPOG
@2ndAttemptPOG 10 месяцев назад
I think it would be nice to see Ashildr being a host to a parasite instead of being an accomplice to the Lion Thingy..
@steampunkfox4932
@steampunkfox4932 10 месяцев назад
The lion man is basically a anthropomorphic male Pyroar
@lexezlao
@lexezlao 10 месяцев назад
if he was an actual pyroar he might actually be interesting
@steampunkfox4932
@steampunkfox4932 10 месяцев назад
@@lexezlao true
@dougsfilmtv9810
@dougsfilmtv9810 10 месяцев назад
I am not a fan of this story. I will admit it was good to see Ashildr again and you have a good story that she is the villain, and you can tell there is a consequence from the previous story about living forever. I do hate when she turns good all of sudden and I was like What?! First you blame The Doctor and now this?! It was such a disastrous story.
@R.senals_Arsenal
@R.senals_Arsenal 9 месяцев назад
Late to this one, noticed I missed it when the new one came out today. Your take on this is pretty much the same as mine. Would have been so much better if we dropped the alien bits. Reminds me of the 8th Doctor in World Wide Web : "Gosh! Evil aliens in Lying-to-human-allies Shocker." 🤣
@TheToonMonkey
@TheToonMonkey 10 месяцев назад
A decent actress in that role would have lifted this episode so much.
@chrisdiokno5600
@chrisdiokno5600 10 месяцев назад
She was good as Arya
@mattnar3865
@mattnar3865 6 дней назад
@@chrisdiokno5600 But not in Doctor Who, wildly differing performances
@chrisdiokno5600
@chrisdiokno5600 6 дней назад
@@mattnar3865 Fair. I felt she did pretty good overall. She is i feel a good actress
@TheAztecGamer123
@TheAztecGamer123 10 месяцев назад
I'm curious: What's everyone's opinion of Ashildr? I dislike her she came across as quite unlikeable in all the episodes that had her, especially her appearance in hellbent, where she came across as annoying.
@mahlicaajaib5231
@mahlicaajaib5231 10 месяцев назад
I hated her with a passion, wished the doctor got his revenge and killed her somehow: Ashildr went from a kind, meek girl to a snarky bitch who indirectly got Clara killed and trapped the doctor in the confession dial when there was no need
@bennyy7434
@bennyy7434 10 месяцев назад
This and the fact that Maisie Williams is not a convincing actress
@ImpossibleGirI
@ImpossibleGirI 10 месяцев назад
I love her. Just something about someone that slowly becomes a different person after hundreds of years is captivating and great. Never a dull moment. Sorry Captain Jack harkness (I still like him though)
@Sparx632
@Sparx632 10 месяцев назад
She got Clara killed so I’m not a massive fan
@Blandy8521
@Blandy8521 10 месяцев назад
I had completely forgotten about her tbh
@ThatVincion
@ThatVincion 3 месяца назад
The fact the Doctor hasn't learned from Captain Jack is crazy
@JTD95
@JTD95 10 месяцев назад
I could be wrong, but if I recall correctly you once said S9 is one of your favorite series of DW? Was that true? It really doesn't seem like it so far. I personally isn't the biggest fan of it. Some fantastic highs, but a lot of misses. Great review anyways, as always!
@jacobbastin802
@jacobbastin802 10 месяцев назад
This is one of those rare times where the right contraction to use is "ain't" (which means "am not") where you used "isn't"
@JTD95
@JTD95 10 месяцев назад
@@jacobbastin802 Well, I almost wrote "aren't" instead, which I guess would've been even more wrong. Thanks for the heads up.
@dizzypro4974
@dizzypro4974 10 месяцев назад
@@JTD95 I would've used "I'm personally not..." which I believe is also gramatically correct but uses more a common contraction
@MarkWiseTechno
@MarkWiseTechno 6 месяцев назад
I know this episode has flaws, but I love it to death. None of the flaws bother me in any material way, and it's one of my favorites of season 9, which is my favorite season.
@dylanthompson5421
@dylanthompson5421 10 месяцев назад
‘That abomination from Orphan 55’ 😭😭😭😭
@CaptainKitchener
@CaptainKitchener 10 месяцев назад
I loved this episode so much
@hummakavula3750
@hummakavula3750 10 месяцев назад
I like the potential of Sam Swift reappearing if it could be opposite 14/10A Tennant
@Samviking01
@Samviking01 10 месяцев назад
Leandro's comedicly villainous laugh after the Doctor tells him to kill him if he wants to take over the planet is up there with some of the cringiest writing in the modern era😬
@mayotango1317
@mayotango1317 10 месяцев назад
More that this? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-eRUqJSCOyZ4.htmlsi=_0Up3oPqCoaSyzL8
@apanapandottir205
@apanapandottir205 10 месяцев назад
The doctor cursing someone with eternal life for his own selfish reasons? Perfection.
@Alex_Thompson983
@Alex_Thompson983 10 месяцев назад
Is series 9 still your favorite?
@anna_s9921
@anna_s9921 10 месяцев назад
still think that ashindr / me should have saved that immortality coin for clara and still didn't got whole hybrid part
@chrisdiokno5600
@chrisdiokno5600 10 месяцев назад
TBF to the Hybrid dealio, it was left vague, especially as Peter McGann I believe in the movie or one of the audio dramas DID say he's human on his mom's side
@selatidos
@selatidos 10 месяцев назад
i hope me/ashildr finally died off screen,despite never staying dead in the girl who died,and i hope that the character can be reformed on a spin off ,if its possible
@TheBigGlober68
@TheBigGlober68 10 месяцев назад
This is S9s best episode if this is the only one
@dickottel
@dickottel 5 месяцев назад
bro, don't say making someone immortal is kind, I can't imagine anything more cruel. death is natural and it's a well deserved rest after a hard life. even our short lives are exhausting and death saves us after decades of suffering.
@cameronspalding9792
@cameronspalding9792 7 месяцев назад
@ 17:21 You mean X, it’s called X now.
@Infamous-K
@Infamous-K 10 месяцев назад
Thanks for such a thoughtful video. All hail the Algorithm
@undying_artv2
@undying_artv2 8 месяцев назад
Plague doctor *
@CashelOConnolly
@CashelOConnolly 10 месяцев назад
Harbo you look like a teenager,what’s your secret? Time travel? 🔷🔷🔷
@Joey15811
@Joey15811 10 месяцев назад
Part 1 great...this one let's it down. Dull AF.
@dexterhill5843
@dexterhill5843 10 месяцев назад
Yeah this one is a mixed bag - love the setting and philosophical questions it poses re immortality but like many Moffat era scripts, the majority of the comedy lets it down because it’s so tonally off and jarring. I’m still unsure on Maisie Williams; I like her in some scenes but in others she’s either stiff as a plank of wood or just playing outright spoilt brat or ranting cackling villain which isn’t interesting or as nuanced as the rest of the performance i.e. someone who’s bitter after all they’ve lost. If anything, she hurts it because I feel less bad for her and more oh shut up you screaming child the Doctor was only trying to fucking save you after you died because you declared war and brought it to your own village in the first place and got killed. I also have to agree it’s a shame they felt the need to shove in a monster-of-the-week when the story is already about something else which is also far more interesting. Pure historical with sci-fi element present in the gadgetry and eye of Hyades would have been the way to go for sure. If the feeling was a worry that if there isn’t a monster, younger audiences won’t engage or it’ll be forgotten or even just the idea doctor who needs to have a monster then that’s unfortunate especially as the monster not only damaged the story but was ultimately unforgettable as well anyway and contributed to the whole episode being more meh and forgettable when it should be a really poignant and standout tale. I would like to add though that Doctor Who does have The Visitation set in 1666 (15 years after this one and which is much more atmospheric) so it has explored this period of history before and it does use elements of its historical setting well (as well as an alien invasion ironically) such as the inclusion of the plague and great fire of London; it also has some of the same elements as TWWL such as highwaymen and the image of death stalking the countryside playing into the fears the locals would have been preoccupied with at the time as depicted by the android as the grim reaper - much better than a generic Lion man breathing fire and who is in league with but then predictably betrays their human accomplice. It’s a shame because this episode is wasted potential of a genuinely interesting premise and setting but it still has some good bits too.
@fanthonyfictions
@fanthonyfictions 10 месяцев назад
Do you want to know how an immortal would feel? If you think the Doctor qualifies as an immortal for being alive for 10,000 Earth years, then consider that I at the time of writing this, have lived 10996 life times. The mayfly lives 1 day. Then dies. if a mayfly could speak and communicate with us, they would consider us to be immortal. And to us it’s just another day. So if we knew a creature that could live 10,000 years, we would consider them to be immortal, yes. But consider, if you scale that back to the mayfly, 10,000 years to a mayfly would only be 125 days to us. (if we assume humans live 80 years when they parish. A mayfly lives one day. 10,000 years divided by 80, 125 days) Did I maths good?
@padraigpearse1551
@padraigpearse1551 10 месяцев назад
I wont lie I've forgotten most of matt smiths late episodes as well as most of capaldis entire run. They were just so meh and forgettable even though capaldi is one of my favourite doctors
@bloodyneptune
@bloodyneptune 10 месяцев назад
Same!! Half the Capaldi episodes he's reviewed here I've thought "oh right, this episode happened". But Capaldi is second only to Baker for me. I feel like he was completely squandered
@mayotango1317
@mayotango1317 10 месяцев назад
Ah, you must love the Chinball era.
@padraigpearse1551
@padraigpearse1551 10 месяцев назад
@mayotango1317 it's certainly ✨️unique✨️
@grandsome1
@grandsome1 10 месяцев назад
At least they each got one awesome season, except at the opposite of each one career(the first of Smith and the last of Capaldi), which is why the whole middle part of Matt Smith/Capaldi era just blends in forgetfulness.
@mayotango1317
@mayotango1317 10 месяцев назад
@@grandsome1 Series 6 is awesome by his darkness, and Season 8 is great.
@apanapandottir205
@apanapandottir205 10 месяцев назад
I 100% disagree with the opinions on Maise Williams performance. I think she is amazing, especially with using her face. I've literally sampled her from this story in a song cuz I love it so much haha.
@stovap
@stovap 10 месяцев назад
Captain Jack was better.
@jayanderson9375
@jayanderson9375 10 месяцев назад
Sotrry you didn’t like it. I’ve heard some other people say that too, worked for me, if still not one off the best
@hernerwerzog9700
@hernerwerzog9700 10 месяцев назад
Who Wants To Live Forever...? (I'll see myself out)
@iainhewitt
@iainhewitt 10 месяцев назад
I think you're going a bit overboard with your dislike of Maisie Williams acting, especially given your like of Matt Smith, who could be out acted by a piece of dust falling from a shelf.
@chrisdiokno5600
@chrisdiokno5600 10 месяцев назад
That's a bit harsh, he has charm
@iainhewitt
@iainhewitt 9 месяцев назад
​@@chrisdiokno5600I once spoke on a train in Scotland with a young lady who said he was a good actor. I asked her what would happen if they locked him in a room with a Shakespearean actor like Tennant or someone like Chris Ecclestone. She thought and conceded the point. 'He'd be lost,' she said. Then the fiftieth rolled round and they actually 'locked' him in a room with Tennant and the incredible John Hurt. And he looked as poor as he always was
@chrisdiokno5600
@chrisdiokno5600 9 месяцев назад
I mean yeah he's no Shakesperean trained actor, but he has his own brand of whimsical, youthful charm and charisma. Like he played The Doctor well, as this dangerous being who tries to run from his past by acting all bright and cheerful,@@iainhewitt
@TheOvervoid
@TheOvervoid 6 месяцев назад
​@@iainhewitt press x to doubt that ever happened
@wattsiswhat
@wattsiswhat 10 месяцев назад
You hate Maisie so much that you have made two videos bashing her. Terrible.
@ClappingForChlamydia
@ClappingForChlamydia 10 месяцев назад
I'm so happy you show your face more in your videos now. You're really cute
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