Reedy No, it became a fixed point as soon as he looked at it as far as i understood it? Maybe im wrong, would love to get a more accurate explaination then.
Serry Yes, this is correct. As is made clear in this episode, when you witness your own future, it becomes fixed. If Rory & Amy instantly went back to the TARDIS, the gravestone would’ve either remained unmarked, disappeared or simply removed from existence.
@@tsukopara2054 Actually, they had seen earlier that the last chapter of the book was called "Amelia's last farewell" so it was inescapable before they even got to the graveyard
BloodyBay when we see them as kids in earlier eposiodes i dont think theres 5 years between them, i think the unfortunate truth is that amy did have to live 5 years without Rory
Assuming they landed at the same time. However, based on the fact that they landed together, at all, I'm assuming the angel intentionally dropped them off together.
That was certainly a beautiful touch they added.....though Amy does blink more than once in her goodbye speech while looking at the angel, so River's eyes must have been glued to that angel to give Amy time to say goodbye.
When Amy dies, the Doctor starts crying, meaning he looks away from the angel. This means that River kept her eyes on it. *Her mother just died but she held herself together for the Doctor, clearly knowing he was weaker in the feels department.*
I don't like Rory because Amy died so she can see Rory and if Rory wasn't person in doctor who Amy wouldn't die just for Rory BECAUSE HE WOULDN 'T BE A PERSON IN DOCTOR WHO (%4 I like Rory)
they took it, crushed it, sliced it, diced it, threw it into a fire, took it out, threw it down the grand canyon, retrieved it, threw it in acid, and then threw it in lava.
Technically, while they both died, Amy and Rory ended up living together. This may be bad for the Doctor, but at least they finally had the chance they desired to live a normal life and grow old together.
I just remembered about the scene with the Doctor and Amy's dad. The only thing he wanted was that the Doctor kept her safe. That must have been an awkward conversation.
@@Angi3_6 There was a letter. Shame it never made it to the episode.. But still beautiful ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XWU6XL9xI4k.html
@@Angi3_6 well technically, they were still "safe". They even grew old together and probably went out surrounded by their children and probably some friends they made. I think that's a happy ending to the Ponds, just not to the Doctor and the their relatives living in present time.
Poor Matt even in the behind the scenes before filming this he broke down because he was saying goodbye to the actors for Amelia and Rory and it shows how much of a friendship even on set that they had
Well and when the doc was reading the “afterword”, they got Karen to sit beside him on the bench (but out of frame) and read it aloud to him… apparently it made Matt cry for real too
"Everyone dies alone. But if you mean something to someone, if you helped someone, or loved someone, if even a single person remembers you, then maybe you never really die at all."
While it's sad, what I do like about Amy and Rory's departure is that they never had to experience or adjust to another incarnation of the Doctor. They spent years travelling with the fun, quirky, magical Eleventh Doctor, and he was a pivotal part of both their lives. The fact they never had to remember him otherwise gives me some comfort. They'll always remember him as their raggedy madman in a box.
I also thought it was a mercy on the angel's part to send them back in time to be together. After "The Time Of The Angels", it easily couldve just snapped her neck instead.
@@Lexie955idk about that, she did kiss the doctor while being in a relationship with rory and was also trying to kiss the doctor TWICE on their wedding day💀
I know the Doctor wanted to rip that angel apart, when it took Amy and Rory from him. Just look at how he's looking at it, at the end. He's crying, but you can just feel the anger.
ElbigEmo - haha, funny that you say that, considering she's his mother-in-law :D Echelon - So that's why he selfishly wanted to prevent Amy from going to him?
Domihork He wasn't being selfish, he just didn't want to lose Amy. He basically watched Amy grow up. You think he just going to be like, "Oh yeah, go ahead." Don't be ridiculous. He loved both of them, like I said, but obviously he was wayyyy closer to Amy. What do you expect?
You have to admire River's strength in this scene. She just witnessed her parents' demise and whilst the Doctor collapsed and broke down, she kept her composure and stayed strong for him, even though it must have been killing her inside. River may have been feisty like her mother, but she definately inherited her father's compassion.
Peter Andrew- that wasn't technically their demise they went back in time and lived to be in their 80s. I would've rather my mother been with my dad than live and unhappy and regretful within my timeline. That would be selfish don't you think?
Remember that this version of River hadn't yet written the book, so she knew she would meet up with her parents again at some point. We know this hasn't happened because she goes on to say she'll ensure that Amy leaves a note for the Doctor. The Doctor can't take the TARDIS there. Why he didn't think to use River's vortex manipulator to jump back, go get them, and then jump again is beyond me. I know the TARDIS would rip New York apart, but as stated before, the TARDIS is a sports car compared to the vortex manipulator. It likely doesn't have the strength to damage New York.
Stenir Rpg It might also have to do with their names being on the stone. Since they saw it, time set. So even if he managed to go back somehow, he wouldn't be able to pull them out of that time. That would create a paradox.
Toymaker: And then, he was meeting Clara. (Making crying noises) But she was killed by a BIRD! Doctor: She still survives in her last second of life. Toymaker: Well, THAT’S ALRIGHT THEN!
Gotta say though, the angel was kind. It sent them both back in time to end their days together. It couldve done what they did to the clerics in "The Time Of The Angels".
Liam Catterson me too, like everyone else, I lost my Amy. My sweet, witty, sarcastic Amy. Great, now I'm gonna get depressed Everytime I see the kissogram now.
“Melody... You look after him. And - you be a good girl and you look after him.” She said that River kissed her hand. A final goodbye between mother and daughter. Dammit this show knows how to yank on the heartstrings!
@@pinkjellyfish9638 Wait, then why can't the Doctor just use her vortex manipulator to see Amy and Rory? I understand if he can't remove them from the time period (as that would create a paradox), but at least he could _see_ them? [Edit] Maybe because he doesn't like endings and wouldn't be able to bear visiting them without being able to travel with them?
I've always seen the 11th Doctor as the happiest and most enthusiastic of them All. Watching this scene is really sad to see as he breaks down and cries
I did too, until he was gone and I was thinking back on him. He's not the happiest doctor... He may very well be the most sad... His happy, silly, funny side was all just to cover up how much pain he was in. The doctor lies. He lies because he's in denial. It makes sense when you consider things like his creation, at the death of 10, not wanting to accept his death, the fact he is out of regenerations and is on the clock, even his first day, meeting a child only to come back after Amy was already grown... Even the fact that he keeps calling her "Pond" even after she's married is an indication of his state of constant denial, which is why it's beautiful when he calls her "Amy Williams" in "The God Complex", indicating that he has accepted her for who she is now, and how she has grown since they first met. Sometimes it is those who laugh the loudest who are struggling the most...
its really a cover of his trauma in the time war, always hiding his guilt and role in it, "the man that forgets" and in denial (don't hate him at all just pointing out his flaws). so really 9th, 10th, and 12th have these's major flaws with nine just "came back" from the war, ten regrets and has all this anger about it, and 11th just selfishy forget it. 12th repents from it, despite saving it, he still has the memories but he doesn't let the trauma control him or haunts him. so far I think 13th is a recovered/healed veteran as the war is honestly a fading memory. I like all revival series doctors (9th-now) but the first three are part of those phases after coming back from a war or something bad happening to them.
Rorys and Amys Story ended with a Nonsense-Plot-Hole-Nonsense. Time-Dissortions made it impossible for the Tardis to land - which is already the Logic Hole. I wont say more, you have to understand yourself how much wrong is up with this and how it makes no sense. A little help though: Remember what the Tardis is and can do...
River is the MVP of this whole scene. I already loved that she kept looking at the angel so her husband could mourn, but watching it this time around highlighted other moments. While the Doctor is trying to talk Amy out of going, River advocates for the one chance of her parents being together, even if it means losing her mom and dad within minutes of each other. And she does it with a smile (the romantic side of her peeking through). The way she gently holds and kisses her mom's hand is so beautiful. She's even sure to take care of the TARDIS after such a rough journey. She consistently shelves her own agenda to look after her family.
This part made me break down. I had spoiled myself accidentally, but the realness of this scene made my heart break. You could hear the desperation, fear, sadness, and rage, in the Doctor’s voice, and Karen Gillan’s face just makes me want to cry. Amy and her boys were the best group in the TARDIS for me
I've been rewatching all of new who lately (started at 9th Doctors first episode, am currently up to Clara's re introduction in the snowmen episode ) And although I have seen all the episodes multiple times, some scenes just don't lose their power. For me the only scene more powerful than this is ten's mental breakdown 'I could do so much more' speech to Wilfred before sacrificing himself in the radiation chamber. That is the definitive modern who moment for me, but this is a close second.
Matt Smith was so different in how he expressed his emotions. The others were always very passionate and determined, Smiths Doctor was always quirky and childish, so when he stood breaking down like this is was so powerful. Great actor! Why isn't he in more stuff?!
He's likely not in more stuff because hes got the Doctor Who curse. He did some stuff before Doctor Who, and then he did Terminator Genisys, and after that he seems to all but have disappeared. Likely, i'm afraid, because of type casting. Terminator wasn't exactly a good first move in Hollywood unfortunately.
Zuzanna Leszczynska No it became a fixed point once he looked at the gravestone him and Amy would have had to say goodbye at some point because of 'Amelia's last goodbye' (which was the fixed point in their future) but Rory looking changed what their last goodbye would be which was their 'death'
Rachel Long that was a 'possible future' for him to face if the angels got him in that timeline and if the doctor didn't turn up to get him since the angels were feeding off from his remaining years rather than leaving him in a random time period. The paradox basically deleted the existence of that possible future
Lia Allman and then it would not be a fixed point in time therefore the grave stone would not exist but because he didn’t go in the tardis and looked at it it made a fixed point in time so he would know he would die
The Doctor cries and grieves when his companions dies, but imagine how Melody Pond/River Song will be feeling, watching your parents die, never to see them again.
River can actually see them again since it wouldnt mess with her timeline. She mentions she’ll tell Amy to put an afterword for the doctor in her detective book
I just rewatched this season, and in the episode before this one (“The Power of Three”), Rory’s dad Brian and the Doctor have a conversation about all the Doctor’s past companions. “What happened to them?” Brian asks the Doctor. “Some of them left me,” the Doctor says. “Some of them... got left behind. And others... not many, but some... they died.” At the end of the episode, Brian tells Amy and Rory they should go with the Doctor. “Just make sure you keep them safe,” Brian says. Imagine the Doctor having to go back to Brian and tell him what happened. 🥺😢
"The Lonely Assassins, people call them. The only psychopaths in the universe to kill you nicely." - The 10th Doctor, Blink And in the end, she did. That angel could have sent Amy to anywhere in the universe, at any point in time. But she sent her back to live out her life with her husband instead. She killed her nicely, and I think that gives the Weeping Angels far more complexity than people realise.
The same angel always send you back to the exact same time period - in Blink, the Doctor found the police officer because they both got transported by the same angel
Doctor should have known he was gonna lose this argument. He was basically asking her to choose between Life with him or a life with Rory..In a choice between Rory and anything else the choice is always Rory
Rorys and Amys Story ended with a Nonsense-Plot-Hole-Nonsense. Time-Dissortions made it impossible for the Tardis to land - which is already the Logic Hole. I wont say more, you have to understand yourself how much wrong is up with this and how it makes no sense. A little help though: Remember what the Tardis is and can do...
He's the Doctor and the he has a time machine. He would've figured something out. If everyone just sat down and talked it through and Amy still didn't see any other way, THEN go back to Rory. At least leave the options on the table.. although they could've died another way and wouldn't have been able to live a whole life together
I love this scene. I love this ending for Rory and Amy. No better ending for any of the companions in my mind, even Rose. Amy and Rory might not be the perfect couple, but they understood marriage in a way I could only dream off. This ending may be devastating to the Doctor, but to Melody, Rory and Amy, it's sad, yes, but it's beautiful and perfect.
Mev Wetzker sure the ending is beautiful, but there's one problem with it. It's an ending for probably my favorite doctor who character. And the woman who made me laugh more so than any other characters from this show. Every single syllable out of this woman's mouth was quotable and memorable. She was a witty, sarcastic, feisty, alpha female. God I miss Amy. But, then again, all good things must come to an end.
Ned Kelsey especially after all the character development Rory got throughout his run in the series. All summed up in a conversation with Commander Strax in A Good Man Goes To War. Rory tells Strax he's a warrior, when Strax's last reply is that he is just a nurse. It contrasts what Rory became from the beginning to the end, from just a human nurse to The Last Centurion. I don't think this episode did Rory's ending justice at all. Throughout the entire episode, he is pretty much a damsel in distress with no real option other than die, rather than an ending where he sacrifices himself for others as both the nurse and warrior that he is which would have been so much better, which it tried to do with his "suicide" but then his real death is just going back in time and being caught in a time loop until he died. Between Amy and Rory, Amy has always had more emphasis, but it would have been fantastic for Rory to get a better ending than that.
This entire scene had so many damn emotions that I cry every time. The moment Amy asks “no, we can just go get him in the Tardis. Just one more paradox.” She was willing to risk an entire city for her husband, and when she was informed that would not be feasible, she took the risk upon herself to hope she will be sent back in time to find him, even if no one truly knows if she could do that. River telling the Doctor to shut up and let her mother go for the sake of love, and then keeping her eyes on the Angel while the doctor wept made even more formidable. I panicked so much watching this episode the first time because everyone was so conflicted, particularly Matt Smith as you could tell how aggravated he was. The music score in this scene really added the beautiful touch too. Truly, one it the most emotional moments in DW
You have to admire River’s strength and her heart. She spent so long trying to help her family, to be there for them. And instead of trying to keep her mom in one time she let her go. She witnessed both of her parents’ demises and yet still kept her composure keeping the Angel at bay as the Doctor broke down
I actually think it was extremely kind of the angel to take amy as well. It didn’t have to. The odds amy and Rory had the same amount of life left in them for the angel to feed on couldn’t be the same. So instead the angel sent amy back to Rory and took what it could. Evil? Sure but some kindness I like to think.
This particular angel, at least, while not sparing them completely, seems to have at least shown a measure of kindness as you say. It didn't have to do that. They lived a long life together in love, just many decades in the past. They wouldn't have known any different.
On top of that, this Angel lost all its fellows a few minutes ago. I think that's why it's just with that face of sadness when It "kills" Rory or Amy. I mean, Angels use to attack their victims while showing emotions in their faces, like those monstruous fangs. But this one is just sad and wants to survive
Angels are smart too, it could have snagged him when no one was watching, gotten a meal and run to survive. Instead it took a gamble showing Amy that headstone basically saying to her I want another meal, you want your husband. Win win.
+Skeptnick technically yes he could, but he probably wouldn't be able to face his guilt. Same thing could be said that he could have just visited Sara Jane, but he didn't
"Hello, old friend, and here we are. You and me, on the last page. By the time you read these words, Rory and I will be long gone. So know that we lived well, and were very happy. And above all else, know that we will love you, always. Sometimes I do worry about you, though. I think once we're gone, 'you won't be coming back here for a while, and you might be alone, which you should never be. Don't be alone, Doctor. And do one more thing for me. There's a little girl waiting in a garden. She's going to wait a long while, so she's going to need a lot of hope. Go to her. Tell her a story. Tell her that if she's patient, the days are coming that she'll never forget. Tell her she'll go to sea and fight pirates. She'll fall in love with a man who'll wait two-thousand years to keep her safe. Tell her she'll give hope to the greatest painter who ever lived and save a whale in outer space. Tell her this is the story of Amelia Pond. And this is how it ends."
@@grady2104 Because the gravestone had their names printed on it and made it clear that they died in the past in New York, that is a fixed timeline. Any action to take them out of that time and place would have made another paradox and ripped New York apart.
@@luckoftheirish5662 yeah but as long as they go there to die it should be fine, but I think their ending was amazing and bringing them back would ruin it like it did Clara’s death
the doctor looked away from the angel after it took amy because he was so broke he didn't really care what happened to him but river was the one who stayed strong and kept staring
The Angel didn't intend to assassinate the Doctor even when it had the opportunity to. River blinked while the Doctor wasn't looking. The Angel was just relishing its vengeance seeing how the Doctor literally wiped its species from time itself.
@@commanderbacara225 I supposed it was Karma after the Doctor Almost erased half of it's species ( the reason why i said 'Almost' was because the Angels weren't entirely erased from history Go watch 'The time of the doctor' there's a scene where eleventh And clara we're ambushed by weeping angels buried under the snow, meaning that SOME survived. )
Amy and Rory should’ve stayed until the 50th at least. Edit: still a very sad ending though. I just wish they’d stayed longer, I loved these two with the Doctor, I don’t know how they’ll find another set of companions like these again.
Matt Smith is such a great actor. Amy and River did great, but that "No!" After Amy says "All I have to do is blink, yes?" Is really something else. And then everything else after that was just top notch. Honestly, this used to make me sad. But they go back in time and live the rest of their life together. Rory and Amy have a happy ending at the cost of the doctor experiencing loss once more. Really interesting.
"We all came back where we belong!" "What, in a graveyard...?" "This happened last time. Why are we always here?" "Does it matter??" Oh man... Yep, it *always* matters. :-/
I don't think they ever came back to this hint. Although I think this is the same graveyard filming site that the doctor was gifted the army of Cybermen in.
Ah yes, the episode that told us the statue of liberty was a giant weeping angel that never in it's history got off liberty island and wandrered around new york until the Docyor, Amy and Rory went to the past and even then it didn't even do anything except stand and look angry. Tbis episode was the epitome ofshit writing, just like the rest of the series, and the series before, the garbqge river song arc that Moffat managed to screw up with the casting of matt smith then broke his own continuity by having river meet Smith Doctor, again after lets kill hitler and then again with meeting Capaldi's Doctor.
No matter how many times i watch this scene, no matter how many times i tell myself its only a show, no matter how many times i try to convince myself that maybe i remembered it wrong, it always ends the same, amy and rory happy together and the doctor and me in tears
Rorys and Amys Story ended with a Nonsense-Plot-Hole-Nonsense. Time-Dissortions made it impossible for the Tardis to land - which is already the Logic Hole. I wont say more, you have to understand yourself how much wrong is up with this and how it makes no sense. A little help though: Remember what the Tardis is and can do...
@@slevinchannel7589 I mean we've seen the possible repercussions for messing with time. Rory had already died twice in the same day, both times in a building that was erased by existence. The Doctor even says that the fact that THAT didn't cause any major damage was them "getting lucky", let alone messing with time some more by going back there in the TARDIS.
thats terrible :( people need to stop funding all this cancer and aids bullshit and be aware of the horrid things people have to go through on a daily basis
Everyone is talking about Matt Smith's performance in this scene, which is amazing. But can we take a moment and talk about the damn Weeping Angel. One of the scariest villains in Doctor Who history and the frigging thing actually showed a bit of mercy and gave Amy another life time with Rory.
"Everyone dies alone. But if you mean something to someone, if you helped someone, or loved someone, if even a single person remembers you, then maybe you never really die at all."
No prob. Its more powerful coming from the Machine anyway. Afterall "if a Terminator, a Machine, can learn the value of human life than maybe we can too."
I've been watching Doctor Who since the 1960's , there are few really emotional, brilliantly scripted and acted scenes but this is up there in the top ten.
Mnatalie99 well, he could go back to just before they got sent back and wait for them, couldn't he? Maybe park the Tardis far away then take them with him to go back to the Tardis. Idk
Exactly! They both died in their 80s which still might have happened if they hadn't met the Doctor. I still cried at that point but I think it was more because of the music.
Darcy Brummett true but he could find their age when they went back and take it away from the age they died at then take that away from their year of death
They got to live out the rest of their lives unlike katrina, sara, adric, kamelion, peri (depending what continuity you follow), ciriz and lucie, who all died and stayed dead
The reason why this death had such a big impact and worked so well is because Amy and Rory were his family, their connection to him was the strongest out of all of his companions
this was very very painful, like Rose's, and Donna's final; I have only seen the modern series, but for me they are the ends of season with best script, as well as the strongest emotionally speaking. The hallucination with Amy at the end of journey of 11th, also left me very bad. within all the series I have seen, Doctor Who is the most spectacular in all areas
Oh I see, so pulling Amy and Rory out of their time stream at any point in the roughly 50 years before their death and putting the tombstone there anyway to keep the timeline intact is too dangerous, but pulling Clara from her timestream a split second before her death with no intention of putting her back is totally okay. Honestly, why hasn't he gone back for the Ponds yet. Does Capaldi just not care about them anymore?
This was before the Time Lords returned. At that time, The Doctor didn’t think he had the power to bring back people from fixed points in time. When Clara died, he believed he could change history by forcing the Time Lords to bring her back, however, as to why he hasn’t brought the Ponds back... Maybe it’s because the Doctor they knew was gone and it was better to let them have their lives together instead of bringing them back into the dangerous life of time travel.
@@buckwheatjackson1761 It's because they are out of the show. They won't return after such a long time (real time I mean). I mean, River returned and Sarah Jane Smith too, in a way, but I highly doubt these old (… damn it feels like the 11th Doctor era was only yesterday) companions will be seen again. :/
There had always been sad scenes of doctor who, and I always cried at them. But this one just hurt so hard and so fast after the jumping scene I couldn't handle it I was just in a weeping daze all day after watching it the first time
This brings back way too many feels. It angers me so much that all my favorite companions have no way in seeing the Doctor (Rose is in an alternative universe with a human Doctor, Donna lost her memories completely of the Doctor, and Amy and Rory were sent back in time at a fixed point where the Doctor couldn't go and see them). Moffat ruined the weeping angels. They were a much scarier concept when they were first introduced. Also it was just a way to get rid of them so that the doctor could be forced to move on, but ever thought "Well what about their friends and families?! " To think that Rory's father, for instance, outlives his kid. I swear I am not crying. One of the saddest DW scenes I've seen. :(
If I remember right it's in the previous episode where Rory's father asks what happened to the previous companions and tells the Doctor to take care of them. This was a stupid episode in so many ways ,they just found an easy way to get rid of them . The Tardis could easily maintain the paradox ,it has done more in the past.
That’s true love from River, when the doctor broke down and cried, she let him have that moment by still focusing on looking at the angel even though she had just lost both of her parents.
This honestly makes me cry every time I watch it. The 11th doctor was my complete favourite and I miss him so much. I'm just happy that Rory and Amy got to be with each other in heaven but I feel so sad for the doctor because he had no one else and he was all alone. I would have given anything to be with him myself at this moment in time. Farewell ponds and to the doctor
"Hey look, there's a grave here with my incredibly generic and common name on it. My astute observation of this leads to my wife and I being arbitrally written out of Who." The heartbreak of this scene is kinda ruined by contrivance. XD
