The regular wings will be crispier on the non baking soda since they where cooked on the bottom closer to the heat. Next time do the experiment with a smaller batch and get both batches on the same grate for the whole time.
I don't know YET i have never used baking soda on my foods. I just tried baking soda on a steak and i let it set in the frig 5 hour > LORD HAVE MERCY YUM. It was the best Steak EVER ! The flavor was out of this world, and it the steak melted in my mouth, Plus i could even cut the steak with a fork
As soon as you sauced them on the grill you took the crispy away. Try again and complete the entire cook without the sauce. When the wings are done, toss them around in a bowl with sauce and serve.
Hey, Great Video. Very well done and informative. I bake wings in the Oven, 425°F, for HOT Wings. For years I dried and baked them with just Adobo and Black Pepper. They came out OK with bite through but not really crispy skin. Recently I added the Baking Powder to see what difference it made. Both I and especially my family were amazed! Not exactly that Shatteringly Crisp Skin of Fried Wings, but a great deal more Crispy than without Baking Powder. I'm a Convert and will be adding Baking Powder from now on. The reason you guys saw less of an impact? The addition of Sauce. You went through the Excellect, process of Drying the Skin and adding the Rub/Baking Powder, but just as the wing got anywhere near Crispy...The sauce WET the skin down and softened it. Tossing the finished Wings in BBQ Sauce and serving, does get you that Caramelized exterior but you get the sauce flavor and a Crispier Wing...JJ
@@tulsajeff one thing to try, because I have used a recipe that specifically calls it out, is try using aluminum free baking powder. The label used to specifically say aluminum free, but now you have to look at the ingredients on the container. It needs to not contain sodium aluminum sulfate. I'm not exactly sure what it does, but they come out crispy in the oven.
Agree with Igor. Sauce should be a side dish. A tip that may work is to lightly brush with vinegar and let dry. Skin should crisp and bubble. Fiat cook at lower heat. Then boost on high heat keeping and eye to avoid excess charing
Nice video. I use both baking powder (not sure what the person talking about baking soda is going for....browning happens naturally) AND corn starch. I exclude flour altogether. I mix equal parts of both with the rub and go from there. Crispy wings every time.
Good job on the video. As ChefJimmyJ mentioned, the sauce went on too early. Here is why the baking powder one was less crispy. It has to do with when you applied the sauce. The original rub wings were on the bottom (hotter) they had a chance to get crispy(er) before you applied the sauce. No sauce until the skin is crispy. They can be done at that point, or can go back on the grill to caramelize the sauce, but the skin needs to be crisp first.
Thanks for the video Jeff and your ongoing dedication to imparting knowledge on smoking / grilling. In my experience I have found using the baking powder does make a difference with the skin (more crispy) ... but then i do my wings differently. I like doing both wings and ribs via a dry rub method (more Memphis / Rendezvous-style) ... and then have sauce(s) at the table for people to dip (or not). Since I don't apply any sauce on the wings during the cooking process ... as a result it allowed me to get a clearer picture on whether the baking powder made the skin crispier (which in my opinion it did). Also as an FYI ... when roasting potatoes add some baking powder to the water boil before roasting (makes a huge difference in the crispiness after the roasting). Cheers.
Jeff, try cornstarch. Just toss the wings in a bag with corn starch then throw them on the grill. I put mine on the Big Green Egg at 350 indirect heat for about 50 minutes. They come out nice and crispy every time.
I have heard that corn starch can be used as a way of getting crispier skin(used in stir-frys and such), but tonight we are trying the baking powder method, no sauce though...only in little bowls to dip the wings in AFTER they are finished smoking!
I season mine then add the baking powder. I also do not put it back in the fridge, I want it room temp. I then either cook in the oven or my air fryer and they turn out nice and crispy. If I am going to sauce them I don’t worry about the crispness.
Now baking powder. I use in my flour for crispy crust on things. Starch will make things crispy crust as well. Some times a will use starch for a coating on wings, shrimp, and fish > I hate Panko bread crumbs YUCK
Hi Jeff, I've been a fan for a few of years . I'm glad you got on RU-vid. I know that cornstarch helps with the Millard reaction for browning meat. I don't know if it will make the skin crispy . I haven't tried it . Guga , from Guga foods did an experiment where he poured boiling water over the chicken skin then dried it , seasoned it and cooked it like you always do. Seemed to make a difference . If anything he is very entertaining. Much love from South Florida , stay safe . We will get through this !
Same batch;-) I realized I had forgot to dot that and just added foil really quick after I placed them in the smoker initially.. it helps a LOT with the cleanup. Highly recommended!
I did pretty much the same experiment, but with a different mix and a slightly different method - and got hella different results. They were practically indistinguishable from fried, except for the smoky flavor. I did a 1/1 mix of Baking Powder and rub. One tablespoon of each for every two pounds of wing sections. (Frankly though, I think I will go heavier on the rub next time - like 2/1 rub to baking powder, but still a tablespoon of powder to rub). Another thing I did different was to pat the wings dry with paper towels before applying the rub, and give them a very light spritz of cooking oil as a binder. Then I mixed the rub and powder in a bag and tossed the wings around until they were fully coated. That last step may cause the rub and powder to more securely implant itself in the skin than the sprinkling on method, but I don't know for sure. I then did a test cook on a few of the wings after sitting on a rack for about 30 minutes, but the others got layered out in plastic containers with a few layers of paper towel between them overnight until the cook (about 18 hours). The test cook pieces, I did in my toaster oven just to see how they might turn out, and I was very pleasantly surprised - they were absolutely perfect, except they could have used a little more rub. Also, my times and temps were different. I went about 275F (135C) for about an hour to hour and a half on both the test cook and real cook on the smoker, then ramped up to about 375F (190C) for about 20 to 30 minutes to finish. I sauced half of the real cook subjects, but waited to do that until the last 15 minutes of the cook on the high heat. There was negligible difference in skin texture. The baking powder does work, but you have to use enough of it for it to do what it is supposed to do, and get it worked in sufficiently, then leave it there long enough to do what it is supposed to do before cooking. Reactions like that aren't instantaneous, and vary according to how intimate the reactants are to one another. In other words, sprinkling it on (incidental contact) and letting it set for a couple hours is probably not as good as rubbing it in (intimate contact) and giving it 20 minutes. Also, the trick is to cook the chicken to a pretty much done internal temp, then render the fat from the skin without burning the skin or dying the chicken out. Chicken fat typically doesn't render out well (in my experience) unless subjected to temps in excess of 275 or so. My thoughts about my method was to start the fat to render while the meat slowly cooks, all while letting the Baking powder do its thing, then "flash off" the remaining fat real fast before over doing the IT of the meat. I've done wings like this a couple times and have been well pleased. About to do some thighs tomorrow in much the same way, while accounting for the different mass to surface area ratio.
I appreciate you sharing your method and results on this.. I was really worried about the baking powder creating a bitter flavor and held back more than I should have but I do plan to video these again following the recommendations in these comments including yours and see if our test can get much better results. Yours sounds delicious!
@@tulsajeff I tried the same-ish method I did on the wings with some thigh quarters, and it was a fail. I went 2-1 rub/BP (baking powder) on the thighs, and they ended up with hella rubbery skin. My forensics from that are since the fat layer on thighs are a LOT thicker than that on the wings, it's gonna take a hot minute to render that fat out enough to make it work. BP basically just helps to dry and crisp the outer layer of skin. You have to get the sub-cutaneous fat rendered completely away in order to keep it from soaking back into the skin as it rests. I'm thinking of trying a cook with thighs where I go hot and fast to do the fat/skin thingy. Then a rest to stop the cooking. Then another low and slow session in order to get the right IT. Another rest and then another hot and fast session to round out the crispness of the skin. As far as thighs go, though, I think I will go with the 1/1 rub BP mix for the skin, but do a pullback on the skin and season the meat under the skin with 100% rub. I'm kinda like you - I'm just out here throwing darts at a board and seeing what sticks.
Tracey, no reason really and in hindsight, perhaps that would have yielded a better result. I will be doing these again soon to try the various suggestions in the comments. I may release a video as well once I figure out what works the best.
I've been using a sugar sprinkle on potato wedges/fries to make them crispier, I wonder if that would work on the wings? Basically you cover the cut potatoes with sugar, leave sit for 30min or so, then wipe off. The sugar is supposed to help draw out the moisture. But also drying them in the fridge should help too. I'll have to try the cornstarch others mentioned too.
Neither were crispy, sadly. If you grill these correctly you will notice the benefits. Hint: add WAY more powder. Thank me later. Great family you have though!
OK, couple of things. Cooking the rub only wings until 190F on bottom vs BP and rub on top to 156F is not accurate. The only way to do fair is do same pan, split in half, 50% on left and right. But regardless, baking powder will NOT add any thing to your wing, unless you fry them! I've tried smoked, grilled, oven fried (convenction oven) and now even air fryer. It makes them chewy, everytime, no need except there are less carbs if you like breaded wings and you are frying! Personally, I think your original smoked recipe is best! (I have been subscriber for years, make your rubs and sauce after buying the recipes and have never looked back!} My recipe, based on yours, and I know wings and BBQ pretty good. Being from Syracuse NY, we make wings like Buff, and we have the Dinosaur BBQ, and I've been all around this country, and have a very good eye. Yes, dry the wings in frig, no moisture, overnight. In AM, season wings with Jeffs original but add some powdered cayenne, trust me. About a tbsp. Back to frig for a couple hours. Then marinade for a couple hours in Franks, Trappers, Anchor hot, etc. Drain, pat with papertowels. Acts like brine, infuses rub, gets into meat (ALWAYS FRESH WINGS, NEVER FROZEN). Now your ready to smoke. Get smoker to 275-300F, no water in pan, but I put in pan to diffuse direct heat. I use a Smoke Hollow vertical propane smoker, but have used Kettle with charcoal, off-set. Smoke dry for 1.5 hours, half way thru, move them around and flip them. They will be crispy!!! Infused with flavor! If your smoker doesn't cook that hot just go as high as you can, adjust time, might have to crisp on propane, charcoal or even broiler. I open the back vents and let the air flow out to go past the wings and keep the smoker dry. I use apple/cherry mix, light smoke with some sweetness! They are awesome!
I enjoy your videos, Jeff. I now have my Weber 3-burner Gas Grill, a Blackstone Griddle (which I love), and I'm looking at a Rec Tec Smoker. They seem to be a very good brand from what I've been reading. Not sure where or what I need all three for but my wife likes them too.
I did not rub both sides and maybe I should have. they weren't tough since the drying part of the process does a pretty decent job but they certainly did not have the bite through that I'm looking for. I look forward to trying many of the suggestions given in these comments. Thank you for your feedback!
One more comment. On Serious Eats, they put the baking powder on the wings at least 8 hours before cooking and cook the wings at 450°F. www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/02/the-best-buffalo-wings-oven-fried-wings-recipe.html
Thanks for the video Jeff! Sarah didn't want you to mess with perfection. 😆 I did this a couple of weeks ago, but used corn starch instead of baking powder. The wings and thighs were awesome and came out like they had been fried. I wonder if that would have made a difference with yours? Stay safe and keep on smoking!
You a Dead Head? How many smokers do I need , I have a pellet grill , a Weber Kettle and a Charbroil Egg type cooker . My favorite is the pellet grill ( The Lazy Man's Cooker, gives me more time for beer ) I mean conversation with company.
Gary, you can never have too many smokers😀 Pellet grills definitely give you more time to "conversate" and drink your favorite beverages while the food cooks.
Baking POWDER?? I'm pretty sure you used the wrong ingredient. The similar-sounding, but different ingredient that is well-known for its browning ability is baking SODA. "Cook's Illustrated" and "America's Test Kitchen" (same company) have long added it to recipes to increase crispiness and browning. Here is one of their videos: www.americastestkitchen.com/videos/4146-baking-soda-and-browning
Yes, baking powder. Cooks Illustrated actually just updated their research and found baking powder to be the best. Baking powder doesn't leave the aftertaste that baking soda can.
@@drdrew3 I am afraid that powder is NOT correct. Here are links to two sites which talk about the browning properties of baking soda: www.cooksillustrated.com/science/856-articles/story/word-of-the-week-browning www.seriouseats.com/2016/10/surprising-uses-for-baking-soda.html But the real kicker is this site, which uses both soda and powder. It's pretty tough to argue with the pictures: www.decodingdelicious.com/the-difference-between-baking-soda-and-baking-powder/ Scroll about 1/4 way down the page and you'll see two muffins. Look at them, and then read the text just before and after that picture. So, use Baking Soda, NOT Baking Powder.
Jeff, I enjoy your videos but you really need a remote mic. This will especially help when you interview others as with your daughter. Her responses were unintelligible. Thanks for your insights!
You are correct and it's in the works-- Right now, I only use a wireless lapel mic which works really well for myself and for cutting out a lot of the background noise. Soon, I'll try to add a mic to my collection for these type of situations.
You are correct that the wings have less myoglobin and are technically white meat. Fortunately, unlike breast meat, the wings have some of the highest fat content in the entire chicken (even more than thighs). For this reason, they can handle being cooked at least 20 to 25 degrees past their safe temperature of 165 and they end up extremely juicy and tender that way.
I put my wings under a ceiling fan for 2 hours with some salt on it and then apply baking powder just before going into the fryer. It's kicks the crispiness into high gear and makes the skin taste like potato chips
i like that you tried to compare. they looked like good bbq wings. but neither looked "crispy". i've tried baking powder, i've tried drying them out in the fridge overnight. the only real way to get crispy skin is to either smoke, then fry or high heat (325-450f), imho.
Your mistake is cook the wings to 180 degrees + then sauce and cook for for 10-15 minutes to set the sauce. I get crunchy wings with Baking Powder but I do not smoke at such low temps.
William, I have never called myself an expert nor shall I ever. I am a guy who loves smoked meat, I experiment a lot and have been doing that for more than 30 years and I simply post about what I know and/or learn. I have often been wrong and that will probably happen again here and there. Regarding wings, you are correct that they are technically white meat due to the low fat content of the meat however with the large skin to meat ratio and the the skin having so much fat, they are often enjoyed by those of us who prefer dark meat. Fat is flavor and that makes them taste more like dark meat than white meat. I would steer clear of most people online who claim to be "expert" 😀
Your experiment's flaw is that you sauced the chicken. You have to skip the sauce if you want crispy skin, then either sauce last second or serve on the side.
Igor Reznikov That’s not true. I smoke the chicken wings without sauce and at the end for the last 25 minutes I sauce them and cook them and they come out nice and crispy. Of course you have to use a high heat.
As long as you get rub in every bite the flavor will be there. If you want it uniform for appearance sake you can just use a zip lock bag. Tastes the same either way.
Agree with other comments. This was done completely incorrectly. Now, I have to say at the outset that I've not yet smoked chicken wings using baking powder (or corns starch as you can use either). However, using baking powder or cornstarch (method that was first used by Koreans) is the only way I deep fry or oven bake chicken wings now. However, by putting the sauce on while the wings were cooking, it completely negated the effect of the baking powder/cornstarch. As one person stated, you need to coat the wings with flour/corn starch or baking powder mix, then smoke, then put sauce on... OR you could try smoking, then coating with baking powder, then deep fry or stick into hot oven THEN if you want sauce, put the sauce on. If done correctly, you will notice that the wings that have been cooked with baking powder will stay crispier longer after the sauce is put on. Good luck!
great experiment, Jeff. I am enjoying your RU-vid postings so keep it up. I've been a subscriber for years to your newsletter and got your book as soon as it was published. It is still my favorite BBQ book. I've been thinking about doing this test, so now I know.
I know this video was 2 years ago. I just now watched it. Baking soda actually raises the PH higher than baking powder and will also make the wings more brown as well as crispy. Something to try if you haven't already.
baking powder does work and it works extremely well but you did not do it properly. the baking powder needs time to work its magic you should have applied the baking powder and salt and then put them in the fridge to air dry for at least 8 hours but preferably 24 hours. after that you add your other seasonings and cook them. kenji at serious eats has a full write up on this, i can send you the link if you cant find. thanks for all the great recipes you provide i am loving the rubs and sauce!
Mike, I used the low smoke setting on the new Woodwind WiFi.. in this setting the smoke level is preset to full throttle and can't be changed. High Smoke is the same way. To use the smoke number settings you have to use the actual temperature settings of 160, 225, 250, etc.
@@tulsajeff awesome, thanks for the info, I've had the WW24 for a couple years now, got an order in and waiting for a WW36/wifi and am excited on the smoke control features!
Hey Jeff, I've actually tried baking powder with awesome results! I used a recipe on Postal BBQ. His called for a mixture of baking powder and flour. I went hot and fast with them so I'm sure my temp was higher than where you were running. Also, as others have mentioned, I didn't use any sauce. I also didn't use a pan, opting instead to place them directly on the grill. You wouldn't know they weren't fried if I didn't tell you. It was pretty amazing! My only "complaint" was that some of the flour came through in the final wings, so I'll need to be sure they're very lightly dusted next time. But I think the results would be similar with just baking powder. The video is on my channel. Nice cook as always!
Thanks Ron.. I'll check out your video. I am planning to do the experiment again and with everyone's help, like yours, I might just be more successful this time ;-)
Ron, just wanted to pop back in and let you know that I thoroughly enjoyed about 3 of your chicken videos before I had to make myself stop and go do some actual work. You have an easy going style that will resonate well with a lot of backyard cooks. Great job, keep making those videos and I'll keep watching your progress!
I think if the refridgerator drying had not been done, the baking powder would have had more effect. The skin was already dried, so it couldn't do much more. Also, without the finishing sauce, which proabably moistened the skin again, the baking powder effect would have shownm more. I believe this to be correct, but, I am still practicing on wings. Years in and still practicing.
A previous commenter suggested putting one type on one side of the pan and the other type on the other side of the pan to remove that variable of being on a different level.. I think you're absolutely correct about this. Thank you for the feedback!
My Texas style rub has no sugar at all (thinbluefoods.com).. my original rub has a lot of brown sugar since it's designed to create amazing bark on the outside of the meat.
I did swap.. I think I should have done it at the halfway mark or just used a single level for the test to keep all things consistent. Thanks for the feedback!
