Main channel: @TBSkyen || Let's plays: @2BSkyen || Twitch: /tbskyen || Support my work on Patreon / tbskyen, or on ko-fi / tbskyen || Find me as TBSkyen on Bluesky (s**tposting) || I am ohnoitstbskyen on Tumblr (articles) || #shorts
I will say looking at them together like this, I never realized how hard they washed out the colors of the Pokemon like that. Like the sprites look so nice and vibrant and the models are so much more desaturated it’s kinda weird
It's closer to the old pale Sugimori art I guess, but between the anime and all the promo material, yeah my image of the Charmander line's more vibrant than the 3D models here
Biggest issue a lot of pokemon models have is the desaturation that most of them, if not all have gone through. Charmander is a very good example of how much they desaturated its colors
@@koiloylo it has to be on purpose because it isnt like you can translate the 2d sprite into a 3d model. No they had to make that 3d model from scratch and they definitely messed with the colors.
@@johnedwards4313 they fired something. I must have misremembered the company name. But thanks for immediately jumping to accusations of lying that feels amazing From what I understood, when sword and shield was being developed Company A requested new models from scratch. Company B had made models that were HD and had scaled them down for previous games, but they could just scale them up for the higher definition game. Which had been the plan for a while. “Futureproofing”. Company B went ahead and did that despite Company A wanting entirely new models. Last I checked, though I’m not sure how I checked, the company reaponsible wasn’t involved with scarlet and violet. I think that’s how I came to the conclusion they’d cut ties. Which companies Companies A and B are, I don’t particularly remember, though at the time I was positive Company A was game freak. I am so sorry I hurt your fee-fees with my poor memory. This was _years_ ago.
honestly, the 3D models would benefit greatly from having an extra animation reminiscent of Gen 3/4 animations that plays from time to time. It'd spice up the head bopping idle animation and would give much more character to the pokemon imo
They do. 3D Pokemon tend to have 3 sets of animations: an idle, a physical attack, and a special attack. At least in the 3DS games Pokemon in battle will intermittently do their attack animation in between idle animations
@@Thund3rDrag0n12 yeah but not all Pokemon have that aggressive characteristic to work well with it. No attack animation could replicate the amount of character something like Charmander’s little dance for example could showcase
@@Thund3rDrag0n12 i think they measn extra idle animations, so instead of just standing their like a dork occasionally they could look around or make some other kind of interesting movements, the only pokemon ik who does it is rowlett and all it does is look back at the player sometiems
@@Thund3rDrag0n12 True. For example Smeargle's idle animation has it sticking its tongue out and starts doing a little motion in the air with its tail. It was really cute.
I think we also need to look at least up to the 4th generation and how the past 3d models looked compared to the modern ones. For example with skarmory and it's standing idle animation up to battle revolution compared to how it's just hovering above the ground from gen 6 and onwards. This could be interesting to see how each pokemon could have been depicted and why people are still arguing between pixel and modern 3d animation.
A lot of the Genius Sonority models are disgustingly off-model in comparison to the 3DS and especially the SV models though The animations are "better" yeah, but good animation on bad models don't exactly scream "this is what pokemon SHOULD be" to me
I know I’m not the only one to say this, but I feel like it’s a bit disingenuous to use the gen 8 models as comparison when they’re outdated now for any Pokémon that was in gen 9. Gen 9, to me at least, feels like the first time that the models have come toe to toe with the sprite work. I think that they should be used for these videos because a lot of them - ESPECIALLY for older Pokémon that were sort of shafted in the original switch to 3D - have entirely redeemed the 3D depiction of certain Pokémon.
Unfortunately those haven’t been made available yet so most people making Pokémon videos have to make do with the 3DS models until the latest ones are dumped online.
It's not disingenuous at all. These models have been the look of the series for a decade and while the gen 9 models are a huge step in the right direction, most pokemon still animate and pose like life-less dolls of their former selves because despite the improved texture work, the 3ds models and animation are the base. Once we get closer to Stadium level animation and personality (with much improved pacing lol) I'd be inclined to agree with you.
Except they’re not the look of the series anymore. They’ve been outdated for nearly 2 years now. Also, calling them lifeless dolls because they move how actual creatures in an actual environment would instead of how, y’know, 2D sprites in a video game would is really questionable. Not every Pokémon is going to be jumping around all the time. Each has different animations for when they’re idling, in combat, happy, angry, sleeping, etc. They feel more alive than they do even in Stadium; they just don’t have to be jumping around all the time to show it.
@@twosoup3252 2 years doesn't erase the existing decade, which is worth criticizing. In the stadium series their idles were all different, the ways they attack, got hit, or fainted all played into the appeal, personality, and abilities of each pokemon. Alakazam would levitate back into position after getting hit, Honchcrow would tip its fedora as it fainted, Pikachu would actually ride a surf board when using surf, pokemon would actually have different animations for punches and kicks, and all had unique intro animations instead of the generic roars they have now (which recycle their special attack animations) The more stoic pokemon would be much more chill like you'd prefer, but the wacky and feral pokemon would actually get the suitable amount of energy they're designed for. I'm not even scratching the surface of all the unique animations and easter eggs contained in over 20 year old games.
What I was thinking about: what about the atack animations? The older gens had this one animation when the pokemom got out of the ball, but then stopped moving. Black and white had the moving animation all the time, a step up from the 4 gens before. But from gen 6 upwards they had the idle animation, plus the atack/special atack and status animations. Like Torchic for example has an adorable attack animation. Shouldnt that be also be taking into consideration?
I like that idea honestly, also maybe ysing scarlet and violet models will help, I mean look at Charizard's standing idle in battle and its flying, better than xy/usum/swsh
@Myst918 I was curious and commented about this too. Skyen replied that the models for Scarlet and Violet haven't been made as readily available as the older ones yet, so it's much more of a hassle. Makes sense since even Pokémon Showdon has only added a few of the ScarVi models after over a year and a half
This might be a nightmare to code but I would like Pokemon to have movement animations based on their natures I’d think that would give each Pokemon just a little more personality in this age of 3D sprites
Ohhhh that would be amazing. Just imagine a Timid Mewtwo with that intense face being a lil jumpy at every attack (and still out speeding almost everything) or an Adamant Axew with a determined lil face like >_
that'd be real simple code-wise, actually the main concern would be the artists and animators having to retroactively figure out how over a thousand of distinct creatures would express upwards of twenty-five different personality types through their body language, all while considering how this would look with all of the pokemon's other animations plus it'd directly affect gameplay, considering it'd take natures from being hidden information to something the pokemon wears on its sleeve ... in theory. a subtle convenience for when you're hunting wild pokemon for a particular nature, i suppose, but i can't imagine it'd be a great experience in pvp battles trying to decipher whether the animation you're staring at means the opponent's alakazam is modest, mild, quiet, bashful, calm, gentle, careful, docile, timid, relaxed, or lax ... it's just now hitting me how few natures are all that distinct
@DogDudeRulez hey, the phrase “3D sprites” is an oxymoron. Those 2 parts imply opposite things! Sprites are 2D pixel art. If it’s 3D it doesn’t have sprites, it has 3D _models_ made of polygons. It’s a common misconception that I’d like to help clear up.
the irony of charizard being one of the few pokemon you consider okay with 3d model flying just to be one of the few pokemon whose 3d model got completely reworked in gen9 (which you didnt review) and its not flwying anymore xdd
You should do this one for Porygon. As Porygon and Porygon 2 have fun little animation details in their 3D models. Like Porygon 2 doing the head wobble of one of those bird heads you'd put on a glass that would go up whenever the beak would touch the water.
I recommend looking at the Legends Arceus for some of these because that game gives reworks to a lot of sprites and makes them more interesting (ex. Luxray's normal 3d sprite just being him standing there but his LA sprite having him prowl like he's hunting)
Hitmontop is one of the few winners in 3d ideal animations as he does Brazilian Capoeria. I also recommend adding in a mention to notable pokemon stadium and coliseum models and animations. Some are so good, like when alakazam gets knocked back it would shrug it off and goes into this, laying down on its side pose that looks like Slaking's current pose as it floats itself back while it issues psychic commands with it fingers doing a finger walk as it floats back instead of actually walking
This isn’t even the updated model, Charizard among a handful of others all from Kanto got new models in Scarlet and Violet. Charizard’s makes it look more accurate to how it’s been depicted in the anime
A lot of pokemon are caught between the rock of "concept requires them to be awe-inspiringly huge" and the hard place of "they need to fit indoors for gym battles".
*OVERALL TYPE RANK: C* Fire is bland. Fire/Flying, please. OG Chorizo deserves the Dragon-Type now. It’s been 26~ Years. It got the (trash) Mega X which WAS Fire/Dragon Type, and I bet its new “Z” or Battle Bond Form may be pure Dragon-Type in *Legends: Z-A*
I think the main take away for Charmander and Charmeleon is that their movement is natural, limited to it having a lot of frames with increased graphics, whereas with their 2D sprite, it has much less frames, making their movement all jumpy and exaggerated.
I don’t like how muted the colors were. Charmander and Charizard were vibrantly orange and Charmealon was a vivid red. And all was lost in 3D the biggest offense was Archeops
So it’s not so much how they look, but rather more how they’re expressed and animated. Good point that 3D models can take the life out of all characters at times!
We act as if tons of 2D sprites aren’t also devoid of energy. Plus, presenting us with X and Y 3D models isn’t helping when the modern ones look way better. This dude is pushing a rhetoric by not using the up to date models.
While the Charizard model you used was good, I do prefer the SV model more. They sharpened the face more, along with some other minor changes, and gave it a (literaly) grounded animation set too.
Oooh I hope this becomes a series because I love to see the sprite comparisons against the 3D models. It would also be cool to hear your thoughts on how Colosseum/Gale of Darkness did animations, since so many people agree they're just Better and you've spent so much time analyzing the designs and comparing artwork/in-game assets for them.
Im sorry but every time i see the charmander xy 3d model all i can think about is that one animated series on youtube and i think he is gonna say a but of slurs
I mean you could. But you could also do something instead of nothing. If Charmelon was hunched over more, his claws pointed forward ready to fight. If he roared or stomped when he was sent out or after waiting too long for an attack. Charmander could easily do that little dance if he waits too long to show he is full of energy and ready to fight.
I really fell out of pokemon when they started going full 3D and watching your shorts has made me realize why. 2D felt alive, it felt warm, it felt real. They moved, jumped, they had personalities built into their designs. Now?... Now it's all generic, basic, cheap-as-possible models that are better served as stuffed plushys then living creatures. There is no life anymore, no personality, nothing. Nothing about the pokemon in games now-a-days feels good, which is very sad.
I don't think it's fair to compare a 2D sprite that exists in isolation to Just the idle animation of a 3D model 3D Pokémon models are so incredibly versatile; they attack, they roar, they walk and run around, they're happy when you feed them, they go to sleep, they wake up, etc Feels a little unfair to compare a 2D sprite that has to do everything to show a Pokemon's personality to a small percentage of what a 3D model is able to do
3D Charmander looks like a chunky toddler. And not in the "baby animal" kind that it should but in the "it can barely keep itself upright while wobbling along" kind.
We need GF to hire dedicated fans skilled with 3D modeling to overhaul every fuckin Pokemon 3D model so they actually have some cool default poses or occasional big movements. Like if Charmander's idle was instead to stand more angled, the tail curled forward a bit and the arms pulled tighter to the body. Then, every once in a while, it would look around and do a little foot-to-foot hop, or something
Sky battles sucked, cause they made all the Pokémon models who could participate in them flying so they wouldn’t be walking on the air, but it ends up just looking kind of boring. Lots of people hate scarlet and violet but those too are actually my favourites, especially since they updated the models. Charizard looks super imposing and strong with his cool stance, which mind you, is on the GROUND.
Hi! IS IT FAIR to draw these comparisons without showing the “action” 3D sprite ? If you feed tap or interact with your Pokémon they will move in unique ways. Consider incorporating those movements into your analysis
I’m really glad someone finally mentioned the botched Charizard sprites of Gens 4-5. They did my favorite Pokémon dirty. Gen 2, 3 and hgss sprites are cool though, even better than 3d. I do also like scarlet and violet’s remake
At this point I'm just hoping the original plan was a more ambitious idea for every pokemon to have more dynamic animations making the regular standing animations less prevalent but were forced to scale back (most likely due to a looming release date) but that wouldn't explain why they put progressively less effort into the games as time went on.
@@carucath97 I meant the original plan for X and Y, which would explain the overly bland animations. Even if another team was doing it, it still wouldn't matter if they had a rushed deadline or some other corporate bullshit. Scarlet and Violet unfortunately have even more problems than just the models. Some of the improvements were nice but I still think more should have been done, however there's WAY more in the game to show they didn't even really finish it before sending it out.
I still say, the best 3D models the series ever had was in Battle Revolutions for the Wii. Appropriately rich colors, and idle animations with some actual personality to them.
Good pixel art is better than 90% of 3d graphics. Remember. Not all pixel art is retro. Look up some of the later generation pixel art, it's incredibly detailed and beautiful.
Charizard looks sooooo good in 3D in Scarlet and Violet, I like almost all Starters in 3D on Scarlet and Violet, specially if they are Flying like Charizard since he can be both standing and flying. His neutral stance and flying stances combined with his new look is sooo fire (pun intended) it makes him look so menacing, like a draconic beast to me.
Though I gotta point out that Charizard is no dragon. They're just lizard that can fly. The very name makes a reference to the species they were inspired on: charIZARD
I'm pretty sure that's the Platinum sprite, not the D/P sprite! IIRC, the D/P sprites don't have any additional frames, just distortions on the base sprite. The additional frames, like for the dance, were only added in Plat.
I remember defending the idle animations when XY dropped, thinking they'd surely iterate now that they have the basic stuff out of the way. Surely they'd eventually return the energy and personality to the animations... right? Oh, how wrong I was. Such a letdown.
You should really look into the original stadium models of the Pokémon. They have so much personality. It is ashamed that they did not continue with the tradition.
Totally disagree on Charizard's sprites, and why'd you skip over the Gen 9 model again? It fixes every problem I can think of with the old model. [EDIT: I saw you mentioning the lack of a public high-quality 3d gif/video with transparency for those models, but honestly I don't think anyone will care if you just put up a picture or something with a little credit in the corner. I know shorts leaves you a little pressed for time, but I believe including the gen 9+ models is worth it for those that received changes]
You should include the Scarlet / Violet sprites as well. Most notably, flying Pokémon are no longer bound to be in the air 100% of the time, but they also changed some of them greatly - most notably Venusaur, Charizard and Blastoise.
Charizard has a similar "issue" as Garchomp, in that they both have appendages that are both large and not clearly visible from every angle (in Charizard's case, the wings), but... you kinda want to bring attention to. And much like Garchomp, yeah Charizard tends to look better in 3D. I say tends to though, those gen 3 sprites of Zard were honestly awesome.
What about gen 9s 3d model? I like how its face looks more fierce than its previous 3d sprite rather than that akward panting 3d models do...... Im looking at you typhlosion.
Especially with Pokémon now being visible in the overworld (I don't see them going back on that), a bigger collection of animations and behaviors would be good in general. Not even translating a fraction of the Pokémon's character through the idle animation is especially bad, though.
I think we need to discuss which pokemon look good in 3D so we have a better grasp of which pokemon suck in 3D and looked better before because it's a lot of them. Like some good examples are Cinderace, Regieleki, Koraido, Miraidon. Mega Blaziken, even thought it's from gen 6 where a lot of pokemon look meh, has a pretty satisfying idle stance and kicking animation.
I wanna see the pokémon stadium 1 and 2 versions of charizard's model as well as Dragonite Xatu skarmory etc I just don't like some of their idle flying animations
The gardevoir line was treated relatively well when 3D'ed, Ralts got a happy little bounce, Kirlia is perpetually practicing its ballet, I can't speak much for Gallade, I genuinely cannot think of its animation for life of me ,^^ but Gardevoir got a sashaying, flowy little dance that I feel portrays the elegance of the mon really well and takes great advantage of Gardevoirs "dress" by having it flow about along with its movements Would love to see you cover how their translation into 3d went in your opinion ^-^
I know people don’t like the OG Gen 1 sprites of most pokemon but honestly I love them. They are so weird but so unique, like look at these silly asymmetrical goofballs, they have so much personality. In my opinion even the green Vaporeon sprite is better than the other ones. I will stand with the Gen1 sprites, they are beautiful to me.
Honestly, the biggest crime 3D pokemon commits is removing the personality from their animations. I can accept the looking desaturated and their proportions being off, but the lack of flair in their animations make everybody feel like they are just phoning it in all the time. The new pokemon always get new glamorous animations, but the old designs just get a basic mouth breathing look and shipped out. I miss the old animations from Stadium and Colosseum. Less pokemon meant more personality for each little pokemon. The series is just too big now.
You should do the scarlet and violet models as well because they are actually changed a good deal in comparison with the gen 6-8 models, charizard looks AMAZING in scarlet and violet
Why are you using the original 3D models instead of the SV ones? If you do that it’s only fair to compare them to the original sprits, which like you said, the 3D models beat
I think charizard looks really good in s/v since it’s no longer perpetually hovering. My boy can finally walk, Ik gamefreak wanted to get the most outta that flying type but let my boy breath
