I love how the the Gavin Ortlund vs Catholic apologist lore is always growing. Has been so great in helping me consider Catholicism seriously for the first time
Hopefully Ortlund continues to engage Catholicism & in so doing bring former Catholics home, & also Protestants to convert to the fullness & beauty of the holy faith of Catholic Christendom
Let us Pray for @Dr Gavin Ortlund hope he truly watches and listens to this video by @Joe Heschmeyer may the Holy Spirit open the eyes of his heart and mind to understand the Love we have for Mama Maria, the saints and all about our Catholic faith Amen.
I'm very sure the prayers of a saint, 1700years buried, led to my conversion. The crypt where she is bruried is very close to my home, and one time life got so heavy I just could not bear it anymore. I fled into the crypt and prayed: 'I don't know if you're there or not. But if you are... help us!' I was agnostic for 20years, I would not have gone to God directly. But she was more aproachable to me and her crypt was always very calming to me, like a sanctuary. After the medical emergencies in the family were dealt with, a thought popped up in my head, again and again. 'Look into the Church. You need help! Talk to the priest!' At first I dismissed that. But it was quite persistent. So after 2 months I did go talk to the priest, became a sobbing mess after he told me that God never turned away from me, and kind of fell head over heels back into religious life. Now the children are baptised and I got the sacrament of marriage after 17years of legal marriage. Just waiting for my husband to make his leap of faith. My prayer to a saint led to a saint praying for me. She calmed me down, took my soul by the hand and led me to Jesus. Without her, I never would have come back! Btw, tomorrow is her feast day! Heilige Verena, bete für uns! I don't know Theology or the Church fathers like Gavin does. He would shred me in a debate, I'm sure. But I experienced the prayers of the saints in such a personal way, I just know the Church has it right on this. Sorry for the long post, this topic in conjunction with her feast day got me a bit emotional😊
Beautiful. Thanks for sharing. God is good. Please pray for me, I am so far from God running my life into the ground. I struggle so much to come back to Him and have hope and not anxiety and scrupulosity. I need to make it to confession. I plan on going Saturday morning. God of mercies, have mercy on me and all Your children. Sorry to divert from your more relevant and great post, I just haven't been asking for help or prayers and it's easier to do so online. Thanks fam. Peace and God bless.
My story is not more relevant... I'm already home and more at peace than I ever was in my life. Your story seems to be still going. I'll pray for you! Take care of yourself, please do go to confession. And do ask the saints for help. I'm far from an expert in this, but for fatherly guidance is St. Joseph always amazing! Perhaps St. Augustine for the scrupulosity. Let them help you, guide you back to God. We are all sinners. We all messed up... I shudder to think where I was, just 2years ago. We all need Gods love, guidance, and most of all, his mercy! Without it, we are all screwed. So don't give up! You'll find God, and you'll be amazed how much He loves you!
My friend prayed for the intercession of St Jude everyday for my conversion for the better part of a decade. God answered his prayers and appeared to me and I believed. Praise be to God
I Am sure it was a demon. God didn't tell man to pray to deceased people to intervene or intercede for anyone. Catholicas praying to Mary is paganism and not of Christ. Also WHY ARE ALL THE POPES from Rome? Why not the middle east? Where the HOLY GHOST first fell? All the way across the globe. The Garden of Eden is even a middle eastern location. Yet the Main people who were Catholic. King Henry I -VIII were all Catholic. Where were they located? England, European countries.. They will definitely deceive you all forever their lies. NOTICE how Paul and those Apostles traveled to ROME. THEY DIDN'T START THERE. they came there and WITH THE GOSPEL European were CAUCASIAN. What was the nationality of MARY AND JOSEPH?? . THEY were never Caucasian. Abraham and KING DAVID. WERE NOT CAUCASIANS. neither was the Ethiopian who was baptized by Phillip.. ..Greeks Persian and not from Europe...
This last Saturday my wife and I got into a discussion on the Marian Apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe with our Reformed Protestant family member. Her argument was it could be demonic and could be Satan trying to pull the focus away from Christ to Mary. We went through the historical arguments of how millions converted to Catholicism because of it. We also went through the “Queen of Heaven” arguments and how we see positions held in the Dividic Kingdom being fulfilled in the church today (I used the Isaiah 22 argument). Then the NEXT day the readings were from Isaiah 22 and Matthew. I laughed and thanked God because that wasn’t a coincidence. Now Thursday is upon us and what is the topic for today?! God is good and the Holy Spirit is moving! Haha Thanks Joe! Had I not been working late every night I was hoping to call into Catholic answers about this! On a side note thanks for sending me a copy of Pope Peter! It was a huge help! Edit: My wife started to bring up the point about the mass and our union with Christ at every mass, but something happen that distracted us and she didn’t get to finish it. Great to hear you make the same point!
One thing worth noting is that you should also let our protestant brothers and sisters know that the supposed claims of Marian apparitions that the church accepts , doesn't mean we even have to. The church gives us the liberty to accept them or not
@@Compulsive-Elk7103That was my first comment. 😂 I thought she was going to bring up a controversial one when she first brought it up. My wife is from Mexico and has a devotion to Our Lady so that’s why we went further with the conversation.
Ah that is the very nice thing about Catholicism I remember the same readings and the one about Peter and the keys connects us all quite beautiful to know you had such a beautiful experience while I was hearing the same message have a good day God Bless
We seek refuge beneath the protection of your compassion Theotokos. Do not disregard our prayers in troubling times, but deliver us from danger O only pure and blessed one. Amen.
Lets be honest. A protestant either has to say, we are worshiping Mary and the saints, hence idolatry, or they should stop saying we are worshiping creatures. Idolatry - worshiping false Gods with the full knowledge of doing so condemns ones to hell. Therefor one has to say all people practicing this go to hell - all members of the apostolic churches of all ages, not until after the reformation. The problem is then all those members who prayed to Mary in the early church, are necessarily in hell then (which a protestant would most probably deny): *St. Gregory the Wonderworker* (d. 270) "Mary, you are the vessel and tabernacle *containing all Mysteries* . You know what the patriarchs did not know; you experienced what was not revealed to the Angels; you heard what the prophets did not hear. In short, everything that was hidden from preceding generations was made known to you; even more, most of these *wonders depended on you* ." *St. Ephrem the Syrian* (306-373) *O Immaculate and wholly-pure Virgin Mary* , Mother of God, Queen of the world, *hope of those who are in despair* : You are the joy of the saints; you are the peacemaker between sinners and God; you are the advocate of the abandoned, the secure haven of those who are on the sea of the world; *you are the consolation of the world* , the ransom of slaves, the comfortress of the afflicted.... O great Queen, we take refuge in your protection. After God, you are all my hope. We bear the name of your servants; allow not the enemy to drag us to hell. I salute you, O great mediatress of peace between men and God, Mother of Jesus our Lord, who is the love of all men and of God, to whom be honor and benediction with the Father and the Holy Ghost. Amen. *St. Ambrose* (340?-397) O, that *the soul of Mary were in us* to glorify the Lord! That the spirit of Mary were in us to rejoice in God. May the life of Blessed Mary be ever present to our awareness. In her, as in a mirror, the form of virtue and beauty of chastity shine forth. She was virgin, not only in body, but in mind and spirit. She never sullied the pure affection of her heart by unworthy feelings. She was humble of heart. She was serious in her conversations. She was prudent in her counsels. She preferred to pray rather than to speak. She united in her heart the prayers of the poor And avoided the uncertainty of worldly riches. She was ever faithful to her daily duties, Reserved in her conversations, and always accustomed to recognize God as the witness of her thoughts. Blessed be the name of Jesus.. Amen. *St. Athanasius* (d. 373) It is becoming for you, O Mary, to be mindful of us, as you stand near Him who bestowed upon you all graces, for you are the Mother of God and our Queen. *Come to our aid* for the sake of the King, the Lord God and Master Who was born of you. For this reason you are called “full of grace.” Be mindful of us, most holy Virgin, and *bestow on us gifts from the riches of your graces* , O Virgin, full of grace. *St. Augustine* (354-430) Blessed Virgin Mary, who can worthily repay you with praise and thanksgiving for rescuing a fallen world by your generous consent? What songs of praise can our weak human nature offer in your honor, since it was through you that it has found the way to salvation? Accept then such poor thanks as we have to offer, unequal though they be to your merits. Receive our gratitude and obtain by your prayers the forgiveness of our sins. Take our prayers into the sanctuary of heaven and enable them to make our peace with God. May the sins we repentantly bring before Almighty God through you be forgiven. May what we beg with confidence be granted through you. Accept our offering and grant our request; obtain pardon for what we fear, for *you are the sole hope of sinners* . We hope to obtain the pardon of our sins through you. Blessed Lady, in you is our hope of reward. Holy Mary, help those who are miserable, strengthen those who are discouraged, comfort those who are sorrowful, pray for your people, plead for the clergy, intercede for all women consecrated to God. May all who venerate you experience your assistance and protection. Be ready to aid us when we pray, and bring back to us the answers to our prayers. Make it your continual concern to pray for the People of God, for you were blessed by God and were made worthy to bear the Redeemer of the world, who lives and reigns forever. *St. Cyril of Alexandria* (382-444) Hail, Mother and Virgin, Eternal Temple of the Godhead, Venerable Treasure of Creation, crown of virginity, support of the true faith, on which the Church is founded throughout the world. Mother of God, who contained the infinite God under your heart, whom no space can contain: through you the most Holy Trinity is revealed, adored, and glorified, demons are vanquished, Satan cast down from heaven into hell and our fallen nature again assumed into heaven. Through you the human race, held captive in the bonds of idolatry, arrives at the knowledge of Truth. What more shall I say of you? Hail, through whom kings rule, through whom the Only-Begotten Son of God has become the Star of Light to those sitting in darkness and in the shadow of death. Amen. *A Father of the Council of Ephesus* (431) Hail, Mary, Mother of God, venerable treasure of the whole world. You are the lamp that is never extinguished, the crown of virginity, the rule of orthodoxy, the incorruptible temple containing the one whom nothing can contain, the mother and virgin, through whom the one who comes in the Name of the Lord receives in the Gospel the name of “Blessed.” We salute you, who have borne the immensity of God in your virginal womb. Through you, the Trinity is sanctified. Through you, the Cross is venerated in the whole world. Through you, heaven is filled with joy. Through you, the angels and archangels rejoice. Through you, demons are sent flying. Through you, the tempter devil is cast out of heaven. Through you, the fallen creature is elevated to heaven. Through you, the whole universe, possessed by idolatry, has attained the knowledge of the truth. Through you, holy baptism comes to those who believe. Through you, the oil of gladness reaches us. Through you, churches are established in the whole world. Through you, peoples are led to conversion. Through you, even more, the only-begotten Son of God has radiated like light upon those who sat in darkness and the shadow of death. Through you, the prophets have announced their message, and the Apostles have proclaimed salvation to the nations. Through you, the dead rise, and kings exercise their royalty, by the power of the Holy Trinity. *James of Saroug* (d. 521) Blessed are you, O Mary, and blessed is your holy soul, for your beatitude surpasses that of all the Blessed. Blessed are you who have borne, embraced, and caressed as a baby the One who upholds the ages with his secret word. Blessed are you, from whom the Savior appeared on this exile earth, subjugating the seducer and bringing peace to the world. Blessed are you, whose pure mouth touched the lips of the One whom the Seraphim do not dare to look upon in His splendor. Blessed are you, who have nourished with your pure milk the source from Whom the living obtain life and light. Blessed are you, because the whole universe resounds with your memory, and the angels and human beings celebrate your feast.... Daughter of the poor, you became the mother of the King of kings. You gave to the poor world the riches that can make it live. You are the bark laden with the goodness and the treasures of the Father, who sent his riches once again into our empty home. *St. Germanus, Bishop of Auxerre* (d. 576) Hail, Mary, full of grace, more holy than the Saints, more elevated than the heavens, more glorious than the Angels, and more venerable than every creature. Hail, heavenly paradise, all fragrant and a lily that gives off the sweetest scent, a perfumed rose that opens up for the health of mortals. Hail, immaculate temple of the Lord, constructed in a holy fashion, ornament of divine magnificence, open to everyone, and oasis of mystical delicacies. Hail, mountain of shade, grazing ground for the holy Lamb Who takes upon Himself the miseries and sins of all. Hail, sacred throne of God, blessed dwelling, sublime ornaments, precious jewel, and splendiferous heavens. Hail, urn of purest gold, who contained the manna Christ, the gentle sweetness of our souls. Hail, most pure Virgin Mother, worthy of praise and veneration, fount of gushing waters, treasure of innocence, and splendor of sanctity. O Mary, lead us to the port of peace and salvation, to the glory of Christ Who lives in eternity with the Father and with the Holy Spirit. *St. Sophronius* (560-638), born in Damascus, patriarch of Jerusalem. Truly, you are blessed among women, for you have changed Eve’s curse into a blessing; and Adam, who hitherto lay under a curse, has been blessed because of you. Truly, you are blessed among women, Through you the Father’s blessing has shone forth on mankind, setting them free of their ancient curse. Truly, you are blessed among women, because through you your forebearers have found salvation. For you were to give birth to the Savior who was to win them salvation. Truly, you are blessed among women, for without seed you have borne, as your fruit, him who bestows blessings on the whole world and redeems it from that curse that made it sprout thorns. Truly, you are blessed among women, because, though a woman by nature, you will become, in reality, God’s mother. If He Whom you are to bear is truly God make flesh, then rightly do we call you God’s mother. For you have truly given birth to God.
Joe, thank you, thank you, thank you for this video! I cannot stand how ppl criticize Catholics on these exact topics. Drives me crazy! So great to have a clear, level headed answer to refute the objections. I pray for Gavin all the time because I truly think he is well meaning but he’s leading ppl away from Jesus’s Church and he’s doing it in a way that is very appealing to those who have any objection to the Marian dogmas, the papacy and all the other issues where Catholics and Protestants differ. I can’t even watch too much of Gavin’s videos because I find myself getting upset at them….but in listening to some of his videos I have found that a lot of his issue with Catholic dogma is not necessarily the dogmas themselves, but the fact that the Magisterium requires us to believe them. He seems to be overly concerned with the Church’s authority…..to the extent that he rails against the dogmas instead of embracing them because he doesn’t like that the Church tells us we have to. And then of course he throws other ‘proofs’ in there so it looks like it’s not just all about rebelling against the Church’s authority. But on the Protestant arguments alone he doesn’t win. There are too many contradictions. Maybe he’d be more open to Catholic teachings if they weren’t required. I for one am happy these dogmas are required beliefs - I trust in the Magisterium and the Holy Spirits influence on it. Proud to be Catholic! 🙏🏻💕👏🏻 Thank you again!
This was excellent, Joe! Thanks for vindicating medieval piety. It's funny, when Dr. Ortlund read the Marian prayers, far from giving me a "bad feeling," I thought, "Where can I get a copy?" As a Catholic, I had no problem understanding what was being said.
@@lufhopespeacefully2037 The word "Trinity" does not appear in the Bible, but the concept is all over it, starting with Gen. 1. In the NT, it becomes explicit that there are 3 persons in one God. However, as Catholics, we believe that doctrine develops as the Church ponders what Jesus and the apostles wrote or taught orally. As the Church pondered their words, the Church began to develop a trinitarian theology based on them. When heretics rejected Jesus' full divinity and later the divinity of the Holy Spirit, the Church, guided by that Spirit, responded. Over several centuries, we came to a clearer understanding of the apostolic teaching. This is how the Church works.
@@ConnieRossini ,ty for replying connie,, as far as i know trinity is an old worshipping for some an egyptians who have worshipped ezice,authorice&hurce ,later on the church has abducted the notion&also The concept of a trinity predates the Bible. The concept of a trinity predates the Bible. The much older Hindu Vedas had a holy trinity.Called the trimurti, it was Brahma the creator, Vishnu the preserver, and Shiva the destroyer, three individual deities that are also a single deity
@@lufhopespeacefully2037 there is absolutely zero evidence that early Christianity was influenced by Egyptian religion, and even less so (if less than zero chance is possible, lol) by Hinduism. And the number of times the Bible has been "revised" (not even sure what you mean there; it has been transcribed and translated, not changed), is irrelevant to the question of whether the Trinity is true. All glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. Have a nice day.
Lets say one hail mary today for Gavin Ortlund, that he may come into full communion with Christs true church that he established on the rock of St Peter. Comment Amen after praying Glory to Jesus Christ 🙏☦️❤️
The objection about how a practice can go too far and obscure God to the believer is a dangerous one. I could say that, for example, worship music is a dangerous practice because it can draw attention more to the performance than to Jesus who it is meant to glorify, thus making the worship music into an idol. Anything can be misused or misunderstood or wrongly applied by some, that doesn't mean that the particular practice is bad in itself.
@@JosephHeschmeyer my son is 19 and I've loved the videos he has shown me of young Catholic men who are ardent gym goers because the ones my son follows online are constantly telling other young men to use their time at the gym to glorify God - to look after their bodily temple and to pray and praise God while exercising and when struggling to use it as a penance/reparation to hand over to God. In the midst if those who take it too far there are those gems God has given us (you are one of many) that ground their fellow Catholics to remember God in everything they do and to hand it all over to God andleave it to Him.
This is outstanding! I can’t believe I didn’t understand this as well as I should’ve but this was awesome. We are all in this together and the communion we have is crucial. Amazing to know to help increase our love for each other.
(7:22) "... this underdeveloped idea within Protestantism of taking seriously the concept affirmed in the Creed of the Communion of the Saints [...] There's a need for many Protestants to rediscover like, oh, yes, you are part of the Body of Christ. And the Body of Christ doesn't just include those on Earth; it also includes those in heaven. (We'll leave aside the whole Purgatory question.) But certainly we can say Scripture does not treat salvation as a merely individualistic thing. It doesn't just have the vertical dimension of my relationship with God. There's also this really rich horizontal dimension, intersecting in this kind of christological way, in Christ, that love of God intersects with love of neighbor. And so there's this part where it really matters that I'm part of the Body of Christ. And I'm called to be part of the Kingdom. And that this means I have certain rights and obligations and duties. And that one of the things that this includes is actually praying for the other members of the body."
@trollpatrol7215 Whether in the Eucharist, prayer or repentance, we have been instructed by Christ himself to follow and come to Him. Think about that miraculous invitation. Jesus, the Messiah, has asked that we come directly to Him. It is not necessary, or biblical for that matter, to seek out intermediates from those who came before us. We are told in the Bible that we should pray for one another, not only as a Christian community, but to help build the church, spread the Good News, and provide spiritual support to others. Christ stated He would always be with us to the end of time. He is the Good Shepherd. "My sheep hear my voice and follow me". Nothing more is needed.
@@timmcvicker5775 How is everyone supposed to know what and how to pray for me, unless I tell them? James says to pray for one another, the prayers of a righteous man avails much. Who is more righteous than the Mother of God and his holy saints and martyrs in heaven? Do they hear us, or is there a special grace by God that they can become aware of what we ask intercession for? I don't know, but they are part of the Body of Christ, the Church Triumphant. As such, they are actively carrying out the first and second commandments more perfectly than you or I. Why is it wrong to avail ourselves of the prayers of these righteous ones? It does not detract from our prayers and worship to the Triune God, which is done without ceasing in the Church.
Thank you Joe. I love listening to your videos. You have a very calming approach to everything and this study that you just presented is excellent and I feel very encouraged to share it with my siblings who left the faith and need to return. I often feel that my parents and relatives who passed on .. are in church with me , cheering that I returned after a 45 long years. God Bless You… and may all or our intercessions bring Gavin to the whole truth. 🙏🙏🙏
This was overall fantastic. As a convert to Catholicism i have struggled with the prayer to Mary, especially. I will listen over and over intilnit soaks in. I am a student of history and have seen the value of the Rosary in the lives of the people. Could you do a show on it too? Thanks for this excellent treatment of prayer. You have rekindled my zeal for prayinng for my family.
Let's go all the way back to St Augustine, to see the faith alive passed down from the apostles. Note, no one told St Augustine he was in error. There wasn't a protestant debate on the topic. Not for another 1,100 years. “As to our paying honor to the memory of the martyrs, and the accusation of Faustus, that we worship them instead of idols, I should not care to answer such a charge, were it not for the sake of showing how Faustus, in his desire to cast reproach on us, has overstepped the Manichaean inventions, and has fallen heedlessly into a popular notion found in Pagan poetry, although he is so anxious to be distinguished from the Pagans. For in saying that we have turned the idols into martyrs, be speaks of our worshipping them with similar rites, and appeasing the shades of the departed with wine and food…It is true that Christians pay religious honor to the memory of the martyrs, both to excite us to imitate them and to obtain a share in their merits, and the assistance of their prayers. But we build altars not to any martyr, but to the God of martyrs, although it is to the memory of the martyrs. No one officiating at the altar in the saints’ burying-place ever says, We bring an offering to thee, O Peter! or O Paul! or O Cyprian! The offering is made to God, who gave the crown of martyrdom, while it is in memory of those thus crowned. The emotion is increased by the associations of the place, and. love is excited both towards those who are our examples, and towards Him by whose help we may follow such examples. We regard the martyrs with the same affectionate intimacy that we feel towards holy men of God in this life, when we know that their hearts are prepared to endure the same suffering for the truth of the gospel. There is more devotion in our feeling towards the martyrs, because we know that their conflict is over; and we can speak with greater confidence in praise of those already victors in heaven, than of those still combating here.” Augustine, Against Faustus, 20: 21 (A.D. 400).
This is one of my favorite responses to Dr. Ortlund because of the way it goes into areas that Catholics don’t normally take their reactions to him, such as when it touches on the idea of “culture shock”, and especially when it goes into our differences in understanding the Communion of Saints (which is far more important than it gets credit for- there are so many downstream implications). It’s easy for apologetics response videos to feel like a chess match, which isn’t always productive in moving the discussion forward, even when both sides are cordial. This one doesn’t fall into that pattern. I really hope Gavin interacts with this, and I’m looking forward to the next couple of episodes!
Lutheran here. About asking Mary or some saint to pray for you, that would usually not be considered as something wrong or strange. But it is not practiced by the ”average” lutheran, except perhaps during the great easter mass, when we declare our faith, through the creed. In this mass there may well be a lithany for Mary and a selection of saints.
That's very interesting! I know some Lutherans here in Kansas City (and others I've met), but I'm certainly better acquainted with Evangelicals / Baptists / Non-Denominational Christians and Reformed Christians. Are you LCMS?
@@JosephHeschmeyer I really don’t know much about lutheran churches in the US, but in Sweden and Finland these things are common. I guess it’s because our ”reformation” didn’t go as far as elsewhere, much thanks to Laurentius Petri, our first Lutheran archbishop, who was careful to not introduce ”unnecessary” changes.
Mary has been revered since the first centuries of Christianity, if to this day the tomb of Rachel, wife of Jacob, is revered by the Jews, with much more reason the first Christians (who came doctrinally from Judaism) revered Mary, being she the mother of the Messiah Son of God
Unlike most Protestant preachers, Ortlund discusses the Church Fathers. He tries to explain them away, but his task is hopeless because they were so Catholic.
@@gideondavid30 Gavin is certainly trying to make his case, but in vain because the Church Fathers were Catholic priests who would have been appalled by Ortlundism and other Protestant sects.
Joe's comment at 49:15 - 49:39 is sooo on target. Gavin speaks of his concern that Christians may become too distracted from Christ, but I see a more common problem in Christianity these days. That is: "I believe in Jesus and He loves me, so that's all I need to care about - full stop". Our Lord never intended that our "personal relationships" with Him become obstacles to our love and concern for our fellow man. See Matthew 22:37-40: "Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”
I pray that smart men like Gavin, Cooper and White find their way back into Christ’s established Church. We need to be unified just like Christ prayed to His Father for.
Not only is this a textbook case on intercession of the saints but how the righteous on Earth even are looked to for the good of the Church and the World. It's amazing.
What I think the medieval faithful knew was the ontological understanding of The Song of Songs. Tho told in human terms, both Jewish and Christian traditions have held this to be the ideal and perfect love of God for his people. Bridegroom and the Bride- His love for his people Israel and the union of Christ with Mary and us- the completion of the family of God which is the Church, of whom Mary as the Mother can not be separated. Reminds me a bit of Rev 12.
"Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. Elijah was a human being like us; yet he prayed earnestly that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain upon the land." James 5:13 - 20 Who is more righteous than Theotokos...Mother of Divine Mercy
I am so, so thankful I've found your podcast! Having listened to a few episodes now, I think these are some of THE BEST Catholic apologetic content on RU-vid. You are so thorough in your references to the Bible and other sources, and the podcast itself is so well-produced. I will definitely have to take notes and watch multiple times!
It does not draw us away from Christ, in any way. To know the Blessed Mother, is to see Christ more clearly. Love for the mother, is an aspect and offshoot of love for her Son. The holiness and glory of the Blessed Mother, are the Holiness and Glory of Christ Who dwells in her. That being so, it is impossible that the Saints, such as herself, should not be gracious to us; and that God, the only Source of their holiness and glory and graciousness, should not be gracious to us; far more gracious to us, indeed, than they, as mere creatures, can be. They resemble the One God Who is the One Universal Source of all good in all created beings.
You both are amazingly kind and understanding of each other. Gavin I am praying for your conversion to catholicism. Where you will be filled with so many graces from the sacraments. You would be an awesome role model in the Catholic Church
People, Just consider, why, after almost 2 thousands years, God would say He was wrong by putting His favorite creature to receive prayers to Him? Pagans offered sacrifices to gods, no one offer sacrifices to Mary, in the Mass only Jesus is being offered to Father in Heavens, Virgin Mary doesnt take place of her Son. One thing i learnt is that, If you can love Mary more than Jesus loved His mother, you are adoring she. I guess no human can do that.
do you know that the Holy Spirit is called an intercessor? Romans 8:26-27 I think that destroys your butcheting of the Bible. Let's go over the verse: there is one mediator, the man Jesus christ, that died as a ransom for all. That's the full sentence. In plain english it means that out of the mediators that are there, only Jesus Christ died as a ransom for all. You're too ashamed of your man made religion you have to completely ignore what the full verse is to back up your man made doctrine.
@@angloaust1575 YES BUT THERE ARE AT LEAST TWO MEDIATORS. Stop lying. You're not a heretic that thinks Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit, right? Therefore, here's a list of mediators between God and man: 1-Jesus 2-the Holy Spirit 3-the living christians 4-the saints in heaven Stop spouting irrelevant things and admit you were wrong.
Also, if the effects of beliefs and practices "on the ground" is a criterion of whether a doctrine is true or false, what about various protestant doctrines? What about security of the believer leading people to live in sin thinking they're going to heaven no matter what? Of course, Catholics and even a number of Protestants believe that to be false. But what about doctrines we all agree are true that can, nevertheless, be taken to an extreme that can result in error? What about a man who sells all that he has and gives the money to the poor, but then his wife and kids become destitute. Giving one's prosessions away to the poor is a good thing in itself, of course. But going so far as to neglect one's vocational responsibility to provide for one's family makes it not a good thing. Simply because that extreme is possible and may even occur does not mean the practice of giving to the poor should be avoided whole sale.
If youre a protestant, welcome! Id encourage you to watch the video and interact with it. Otherwise, most of our replies will be to tell you to watch the video. Joe brings up most of the basic objections that you guys are bringing up and does a better job than we can in addressing them. Wouldnt it be more productive?
@trollpatrol7215 Amen I feel like apologetics is full of different types of Christians. You have some that just love the lord and the bible and all they do is positive and encouraging. Then there's the apparent trolls who seem to have more of a problem with other churches than promotion of their own. You can tell they aren't there to offer a better way, just to disparage others. There's the nerds who don't take this stuff personally but dig into the history and educational benefits of apologetics. They'll debate but it's usually pretty calm. There's priests, pastors, amateur apologist youtubers with no scholarship, and others who are mix of everything. I'd like to think I'm the latter category.... I don't attack protestants but I will listen to protestant apologists and refute certain parts of their videos. Usually the parts where I feel I have a strong point to make usually in defense of the church, against an accusation made in the video. Misunderstanding catholic doctrine is almost a goal of most protestants on RU-vid it seems.
I’ve never felt closer to Jesus than I do now under the mantle of Our Lady. The Blessed Mother is only who she is because of who her son is. Made Immaculate and pure like the Ark was so she could bear the Word in flesh, the True Bread of heaven, the Royal High Priest within her. Queen Mother of her son’s Davidic Kingdom, showing Jesus true Davidic Kingship, and interceding on behalf of the people of her son’s Kingdom, just as every Davidic Kings Queen Mother did. She always points us to her son and tells us “Do whatever he tells you.” Understanding who the Blessed Mother is torn down every barrier I had to converting from the AoG.
I sense some kind of mischief making when protestant apologists and preachers claim that Jesus is the only mediator between God and humanity in the exclusive sense suggesting that aside from Jesus, individual Christians could never pray for one another. This is totally false, misguided doctrine that came straight out of the protestant uprisings and rebellion to Rome. The word "mediator" in the biblical Christian context ordinarily means someone who intercedes for others in prayer to God. In I Timothy 2, 5f., it specifically delineates Christ's unique sacrifice on the cross, in which "he gave himself as ransome for us all," which then makes him our quintessential High Priest, in a way no one else has been, and can never be. Does that mean that we ought then to reserve the word "mediator" only when speaking in this context? No. There is a "mediator"; and there are also mediators, just as there's a "president of the United States" and there are also presidents of the national workers' union, national guild of practising scientists, human rights organisations, and social institutions, and organised RU-vid channels.😂 But context determines which of these layers and categories of presidential personnel is being talked about when we listen to the news.
It's from 1 Timothy 2:5 That's what you call protestant mischief? It's just plain scripture to have Jesus be the only mediator between us and God. I can't find any plain scripture to pray to any other than God. I understand it's a practice you're very attached to, to pray to other people, rather than just to God, but it's not at all biblical. It's unfortunate that the bible doesn't count if your church teaches it anyway.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 it's not what 1 Timothy means. Read it. In english. Until the period. It says that the one mediator THAT HAS DIED AS A RANSOM FOR ALL is Jesus Christ. The other mediators haven't done that. It doesn't mean that there aren't other mediators. The Bible doesn't count if you have to rewrite the rules of english grammar to make a text mean what you want it to mean, or if you have to cut off a verse early for the same purpose.
Thank you Joe for this next set of topics! I’m particularly looking forward to the third video! My wife isn’t catholic and believes in sleep after death. I’ve found it a difficult to explain why that’s wrong from a catholic perspective. Your videos have helped explain other viewpoints so I’m definitely pumped. God bless you and all who come across your videos!
🙏🏻 will pray for her! I’m in RCIA now. Continue to let her see your love for her, Christ and The Church and your Fellowman. Then give her time. And while you wait- Trust God with faith!😃
Jesus saved the paralytic because of the faith of his friends - Boom! Gavin's misunderstandings as with all objections started with a false argument for the sake of the protest. Too bad Gavin wasn't able to rectify his misunderstandings using the bible like you did! Great Job!
There’s actually an interesting video by a Protestant RU-vid Channel (Gospel Simplicity) called, “How Medieval Interpreters Saw Mary EVERYWHERE in Scripture (w/ Dr. Rachel Fulton Brown)”
@@ultimouomo11 We do agree on basic doctrines, and we definitely agree on the bible. It's the more extraneous doctrines we often don't agree on. They aren't salvation matters anyway.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 You agree on basic doctrines? That would depend on which sect you’re speaking to. You can’t even agree on what the basics are; even though you all have the same Bible and claim the same Holy Spirit. They are indeed matters that deal with salvation.
@@ultimouomo11 How would you know? You've probably been Catholic all your life. In my experience, I don't have major disagreements w/ other protestants on core gospel issues. We agree on the fundamentals of salvation, even from high church to low church, it's fairly uniform on the basics.
Certainly many third world peoples struggle more with idolatry/illicit syncretism, but you notice in places it does happen, Africa, Mexico, Bolivia, etc, it is happening _more_ when Catholicism has waned as a political force. When proper Catholicism was in full force, idolatry and illicit syncretism was most suppressed. You also see in these places that pervert Catholicism, including with liberation theology, they also pervert different types of protestantism in similar ways
@weaponofchoice-tc7qs Biblists? So you've turned bible reading into a dirty word, to be mocked. How gross, but not surprising. I see "venerating" your idols is superior to reading sacred scripture. And Christians who read the bible are just goobers. Interesting take.
If you look at the work of another medieval historian, Rachel Fulton Brown, Gavin's objection about a distant God and Marian devotion pulling away from Christ is the OPPOSITE of what medieval devotion did. The medieval meditation was marveling at how God made Himself so accessible! Mary is the new Ark of God's presence, the Gate of Heaven through which He came to us, the Seat of Wisdom where the Christ child, divine wisdom incarnate, sits. The idea of medievals just seeing God as wrathful is also wrong. Using Song of Solomon, medieval Catholics described Christ as a lover suffering to rescue his bride, and Mary is bride, mother uniting God and humanity and fountain or channel through which God's grace pours into the world because of her Son. Not the water (grace), not the source (Christ), but the conduit that makes that water more easily available to all. She is also seen as the greatest mirror of the divine, making her the one to look to as our example (think the ending of Dante's Divine Comedy). Everything about Mary is centered around Christ. That whole objection is upside-down. And just one more example of God showing mercy because of the merits of someone else is by not breaking apart Israel during Solomon's reign because of David's merits.
The Apostle Paul tells us that we cannot invoke the veneration of Paul, Apollos or Peter as an excuse to divide the Church. In fact, Paul says that not even the proper worship of Christ can justify this. We cannot cherry pick. The Church is the one and holy Body of Christ, fed by the Eucharist, guided by the Holy Spirit, with one Lord, one Baptism, one creed, one soul, one mouth and one teaching. As far as debates with Baptist Pastor Gavin Ortland are concerned, I would quote Saint Augustine when he said, "I have resolved, therefore, with such strength and opportunity as the Lord may grant, so to manage this discussion, that by our peaceful conferences, all who belong to our communion may know how far apart from heresy and schism is the position of the Catholic Church, and with what care they should guard against the destruction which awaits the tares and the branches cut off from the Lord's vine."
Does going to a football game[s], fishing, hunting, shopping, boating… draw us away from Jesus MORE than a devotion to His Mother? Do i hear a classic false dichotomy anywhere?
During the build up to Gavin reading the medieval prayers to Mary and the saints, I was quite apprehensive, thinking there was going to be some terrible heresy in the prayers. However, when I heard the prayers they sounded absolutely fine to me. I wouldn't bat an eyelid if our priest prayed one of them in Mass. They seem orthodox and 100% catholic.
25:18 I would like to point out that what Dr. Ortlund is objecting to is not a prayer to saints but a prayer _directly_ to our Lord. He seems worried about something that does not exist but is being invented by him. Anyone going to a Catholic mass would wonder at the concept that we are holding Mary, the mother of God above God. As for praying to Mary or any Saint. Not all Catholics do this and those that do, not nearly to the extent Dr. Ortlund seems terrified of.
@trollpatrol7215 Also the fact that Mary was born (and even as a pre-born fetus) already carrying the egg-cell/ovum that would become fertilized by the Power of The Most High then nourished by Her to become the body/incarnation of Jesus Christ, who would die on the Cross for our Salvation! The twain were one from the beginning (incarnation) !
Gavin is showing the protestant understanding of a once-for-all (future sins included) forgiveness/pardon by faith alone in the propitiation of the Cross thus, praying for intercession and forgiveness thru the merits of the saints seems to deny the propitiation of the Cross (in their mind). NO! scripture shows that faith in the Cross doesnt grant pardon for sins not yet committed (nor does faith ALONE remit anything-Baptism must be received too) see: 1 John 1:9 John 20:23 James 5:15-17
To me, its seems that Dr. Ortlund's argument is that the abuse of a practice should negate the practice. I have listened to several of his videos and this seems to be a common theme with him. He can't disprove it by using actual scripture or church history, so he focuses on the "dangers" of the practice.
In Christ all things are possible. God way will form the clay, God is love. I am sure He love your prayer for Jesus's Mother. She will be called Blessed in all generations. We love you Jesus , Mary and all the Saints for all time. We will have no separation in the Gory of Heaven.
NO. Opposition to Marion prayer etc is NOT objection to all prayer. You twist things!, prayer is commanded by to Him through Jesus and it shows we have faith if we pray to him. Both in requests and praise and worship
I think so too! He's beginning to slowly understand. Hopefully, he will bring prodestants along with him. I love to see these conversions as they're happening. Digging deep into Christian history will bring you to the Catholic Church 😊
I really like Gavin. I subscribed to his channel. When he talks about Catholicism he does it in such a refreshing charitable and educated way that makes me want to hear him out and not dismiss him. He generally tries to steel-man catholic arguments and that makes the overall discourse that much more engaging and to the point of the matter. He takes this same smart and charitable approach to his Christian apologetics in general when he talks about atheism or mere-Christianity, so there's definitely stuff we Catholics can get out of his content.
It's wonderful when Christians don't throw the baby out w/ the bathwater, even when it comes to those that contend w/ us over doctrine. I feel the same way about listening to Catholic content and priests. I even see some Catholics enjoy James White's content. Now that surprised me, lol, because James is a crotchety old crank, who loves God, but doesn't embrace the irenic approach like Gavin does.
Gavin let’s his existing biases and engrained theology interpret everything absolutely incorrectly. Exactly what I did many years before stepping foot on a Catholic Church to observe Mass and and really dig deep to understand what it was all about. It changed my life. Jesus answered my plead that he help me be disciplined and to love him. I’m so thankful he led us to a Catholic Mass.
I think you can say we pray to the saints. We do say a prayer called the hail Mary that is specifically directed to Mary. So we do pray to them but our prayer to them is for them to pray for us to the One true Trinity.
You definitely pray to saints. There is no way around that. The common comparison that you are merely asking for prayer, as you would to me, who is a living saint. We are alive in this world, so you don't need to pray to me to pray for you.
We don't worship the Saints, and we don't pray to them in the way that we pray to God (directly seeking His resolution of particular situations), but we do pray to them in the sense of asking for things (namely, their prayers), which is what "pray" literally means. In this sense of "prayer," even our going to one another IS a form of "prayer" (we still keep this sense in phrases like "pray tell" -- that "pray" is directed at the other person, not God).
You are praying to the saints no way round it no matter what the request is. They are dead so actually you are praying to the ceiling or the a Walls around. You cannot speak to the dead. It is forbidden. Prayer is a form of speaking to or communicating with the dead if the are dead @@JosephHeschmeyer
I think he said he would address this in a later video and I hope he does because I would love to hear what he has to say. I recently watched a video with William Albrecht and Father Mitch Pacwa where Father Mitch makes the point that the gnostics did not believe in bodies going to heaven. They denied the body, believing that it was a material evil and the goal was to free the spirit from the body. So it doesn't make sense that gnostics would be celebrating Mary's bodily assumption.
Gavin reiterates what I said yesterday. we pray to God through Jesus Christ. NOT through Mary. This is him discussing the first example prayer he has given. The titles given to Mary are not biblical. Time and space makes no difference here. None of the Apostles or disciples prayed in this manner or taught believers to pray in this way
I think his argument that the Marian prayers made God seem distant and Mary more approachable isn't a good one, because he doesn't contrast it with prayers made specifically to God
@@joeoleary9010 Yep, it's pretty sad. Catholics are very puffed up w/ pride and claim to all the things. The fullness of faith, an infallible church, perfect doctrine. It's all perfect and superior and look at those crappy protestants who have nothing. Yet where is the fruit? I go on the crappy and empty protestant's channel, and Gavin's people are charitable and do their best to follow his gracious example. I don't see mean potshots at Trent, Jimmy, Joe or whoever Gavin is in peaceful debate w/. I come on the Catholic channels and rotten fruit abounds. Hmm, something isn't adding up.
@@alexs.5107 It is not ok to have a Catholic username, even though I'm not Catholic. I have French Catholic heritage, it is kind of an olive branch to the Catholic branch of Christianity, Joan of Arc is someone to be admired and was unique in history, plus my name is actually Jeanne.
The communion of saints and devotion to Mary seemed logical to me as a convert. For instance if Protestants concede that prayer in itself and devotion in itself is strictly for God we would need to look at the premise of both of those actions. Namely, speech. If speech is restricted for the use of worship, if music is restricted for the use of worship we’ve got a problem. Logically we are social creatures, and God created us in order to not only communicate with Him, but with others. It seemed highly unlikely that a purely spiritual being like God himself would restrict a physical communication, seeing as we must “speak out into the spiritual realm” as it seems. As a convert I could easily understand there must be something that is separate and specific to worship of the divine. Something that we wouldn’t be guilty of doing even in our earthly physicals lives, like devotion to our spouses and children, our parents and beloved friends. It all goes back to the hierarchal structure of worship and how, vertically speaking, Devotion and Worship of God is to be this very unique thing that would seem supremely taboo if performed in the presence of a human or animal. Namely, sacrifice. Communion of saints was just so easy for me to subscribe to once I sat down and thought about it in light of what “worshipping in truth and spirit” actually meant. And how our Blessed Lord in his earthly live displayed devotion to His human creation as a man, and how this carried out and developed into what we have today as communion and intercession of the saints and devotion to the Blessed Mother.
♥ O Mother Mary, generate, the song that does accelerate, my mind into a peaceful state, God’s perfect love I radiate. As life’s own song I ever hear, it does consume all sense of fear. In tune with Mother’s symphony, from all diseases I AM free.
I really question Gavin’s motives for all his anti-Catholic videos. My point is that he makes these videos for views mainly, because if you look at the videos he makes about other subjects the views are way down. The only and I mean the only reason people know him by now is because of his Videos about Catholicism. So Gavin instead of trying to prove the Church wrong he should be thankful because he wouldn’t have anything else worth watching or to talk about. So Mr Gavin you welcome!
@@saintejeannedarc9460 to say he is not looking for views on you tube is strange. If your on You tube making content then yes you are looking for views on you tube. it's implied in the action itself.
I agree that he is obviously making hay on the anti Catholic stuff. But I mean we do that same thing. Trent horn and Catholic answers videos go after the Solas all the time. I think we are spoiled by the Matt Whittmans and Austin Suggs of the world into thinking that all protestants are going to co exist with Catholics and just agree to disagree. At the end of the day Gavin is making videos to keep protestants from crossing the Tiber and to convince Catholics to leave the church. That's his goal but, our goal is to convince everyone to be Catholic. So yeah there is tension here , but so what.
@@MrPeach1 There seemed to be an implication that he was looking for attention by getting views on YT. He has much better things to do w/ his time. As far as I understand his motives, he wants a fair representation of protestant views, that is loving and gracious towards Catholics, while still standing his ground in the truth as he knows it. It's a niche that isn't very well filled.
@trollpatrol7215 So Mary is going to get me for you, because I had a minor disagreement that Gavin only wants views on Yt? Not sure what's the most alarming thing about all that.
Jesus during his ministry or Paul writes through Jesus Christ never mentioned ,pray to Moses,Abraham or Issac or any ( saint) person that have passed before you. Paul did say to pray for one another, “that would be both ways.” ( the scriptures write only God is omnipresent) Psalms139:4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether. Luke 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered 1Tim.2:5 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. If you wanted to ask your boss for a raise, would you ask your friend or neighbor to ask for you? Luke 11:27:KJV 27And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. ( this would of been a moment, If Jesus wanted us to pray to Mary to intercede, but he didn’t)
Rev 5 :8-12 ➨ INTERCESSION of the SAINTS: REV 5 v 8... 8😁😁 When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones. 9 They sang a new hymn: "Worthy are you to receive the scroll and to break open its seals, for you were slain and with your blood you purchased for God those from every tribe and tongue, people and nation. Only an Omniscient God can understand all the languages of all nations Nations..John Is a creature and Cant. Only an Omniscient God. 13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, everything in the universe, cry out: "To the one who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor, glory and might, forever and ever."Now John HERD ALL THIS all those languages of the earth. How did He hear all those Languages and understand them . God Had to have made it possible for John why couldn’t he do that for those in Heaven as well.. So why cant Mary and the saints hear since they have an Omniscient God to Make things Know to them the saints don’t have to Be Omniscient. God gave them that ability. What are , the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders doing with . Those Prayers in their hands the prayers of the holy ones.Why did God give those Prays to them to Give them to Him 9When he broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar 8 the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God.10 cried out in a loud voice, "How long will it be, holy and true master, 9 before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?"11Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to be patient a little while longer until the number was filled of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been. This Makes It Know to those Saints In Heaven That God would avenge the saints On earth at a Further tine The lord can Make know to those in heaven what happens on earth at a future time They are Now aware of thing going on Now do you think since they pray to the Lord they would not be praying to the Lord for their Brothers and Sisters of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been to preserve them as the others had been . What act of Love are Christians told to do for one another Pray for one another Rev18: 19-24 What’s the reaction to those in heaven… To the destruction Of Babylon On earth if they aren’t made aware of what’s happening on earth. God made them aware giving Biblical proof that The Saints can be made aware of what’s taking place on Earth. They must have seen it Because allowed them to see it. Mathew 18:6-7 Do not harm little children because God loves them as well as Babes in the Faith Physically or spiritually. . 6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Why does he say this “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. What does that mean the Angles are assigned to these children to watch over them and pray for them. They go before the father and Intercede for them . How do Angles know what is taking place on earth Angles are not Omniscient God thru the Holy Sprit reveals it to them they don’t have to be Omniscient. Luke 15:7 I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance. How can People in heaven rejoice over someone coming to repentance? If they’re not aware of their repentance. Now since Mary and the Saints are In heaven are they aware of their repentance and rejoice. Those in Heaven must be aware of what’s happening on Earth. Luke 15:10 In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents." Those in Heaven must be aware of what’s happening on Earth
Christ is our one mediator/intercessor, yet, St. Paul commands all Christians to be intercessors/mediators. Then notice the first word in verse five: “For there is one God and one mediator…” And then in verse seven he says, “For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle.” What is an apostle if not a mediator? The very definition of apostle, according to Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, is “a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders.” That’s an essential part of what a mediator is. In short, St. Paul says we are all called to be mediators because Christ is the one mediator and for this reason he was called to be a mediator of God’s love and grace to the world! Is this a contradiction? Not at all! The fact that Jesus is our one mediator does not preclude him from communicating this power by way of participation. The Bible also declares: “But you are not to be called Rabbi, for you have one teacher, (Gr. - didaskolos) and you are all brethren.” This text cannot be any clearer, yet James 3:1 and Ephesians 4:11 tell us we have many teachers (Gr. - didaskoloi) in the Church. The key is to understand that the many teachers and mediators in the body of Christ do not take away from Christ as the one teacher and mediator because they are, in a sense, Christ on this earth and they serve to establish his offices of teacher and mediator in him. As members of the body of Christ graced with a specific task by Christ they can say with St. Paul in Galatians 2:20, “It is not I, but Christ who [teaches] in me…” In fact 1 Tim. 2:5-6 says: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”1 Now let’s take a look at what St. Paul wrote in the preceding four verses: “I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men.” (1 Tim. 2:1) St. Paul is telling Timothy and all disciples of Jesus Christ that they are supposed to offer supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanks on behalf of all men. In short, Paul says Christians are to play a mediating role. Next verse, picks up after “for all men”: “For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.” (1 Tim. 2:2) St. Paul is making clear, not only are we to make prayers of intercession, supplication, etc. on behalf of all mankind, but even those in authority over us, such as kings! Why does St. Paul exhort Timothy and all Christisns to play this mediating role? Verse 3: “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour.” (1 Tim. 2:3) Who is “God our Saviour”? Jesus Christ, of course. Paul is saying quite explicitly that the mediation he is exhorting us to make “is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,” in the sight of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So now we get to verse 4, which tells us why Jesus Christ would desire this from us: “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”(1 Tim. 2:4) The reason we ought to make these various prayers of mediation is because Jesus Christ desires, “all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” And now we come to verse 5, not cherry-picked out of context but within the context of St. Paul’s first letter to Timothy, chapter 2, verses 1-6: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” (1 Tim. 2:5-6) In short, 1 Tim. 2:1-6 instructs all Christians to mediate on behalf of all mankind through different types of prayer, which are offered through the one mediator Jesus Christ. And in order to assuage any doubt about this, St. Paul adds: “Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.” (1 Tim. 2:7-8)🤦♀🤦♀
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. and who Is called Blessed in scripture Mary And who herd the word of God and Kept it Mary Mary as the first Person To say Yes to Gods plan for redemption Mary Was the First person to say thy will Be done Mary thru who the WORD was made Flesh 😊😊 The words of the first part of the Hail Mary are words addressed to her by the angel Gabriel and her relative Elizabeth. The second part is merely a request for the mother of God to pray for us. But most important of all: the whole point (the context) of the Hail Mary is not Mary but the incarnation of Jesus. Without the incarnation, we would have no Our Father. If Jesus had not taken flesh in her womb, we would necver have heard of her. So whenever we pray the Hail Mary, we are professing our faith in Jesus, the Word made flesh. As she said to Elizabeth, her soul magnifies the Lord; everything about her speaks of God. All generations will call her blessed for she is blessed among women. Of all women, our Lord chose her holy womb, full of grace, as His own dwelling. The power of the Most High overshadowed the mother of our Redeemer and she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit. Our Lord Himself honoured her as His own mother and we must honour whom the Lord honours. Blessed be her name, Mary, and blessed be the name of the fruit of her womb, Jesus. The Lord will honour His own mother, blessed Mary, for all eternity & we cannot but follow His example and honour her as He does: hail, Mary, the Lord is with thee! He is flesh of her flesh & bone of her bone. We are born of Him & He is born of Her and of the Father. The blood which was poured out for us was blood of her blood. A spear pierced His side & a sword pierced her heart. Unless we eat His flesh, which is of her flesh, we have no life within us.
If you wanted to ask your boss for a raise, would you ask your friend or neighbor to ask for you? If I knew someone who knew the boss and myself id ask him to put a good word in for me to the boss👏👏👏👏
God is not my boss. He is my father. And why would I not ask my mother to intercede for me? As for finding a good boss at a new job, of course it will be good if a friend knows that boss and can put in a good word for me. Search for "moses and prayer" and you will find that moses did constantly pray for Israel. If later Israelites did not pray to Moses (and I at least don't know if they did), then because he was not raised from the dead yet. He was in the part of "hell" reserved for the righteous, a.k.a. "Abraham's busom" and were taken out of it by Jesus. So why would Jesus tell the Jews to pray to people he had not raised, when instead He told them through the church He founded that they should pray after he raised them. About your last quote (btw. did you listen to any of the quotes that Joe has given? Do they make sense to you?) you should look into that word that is translated as "Yea rather". It is indeed an affirmative that shifts focus. You could also translate it as: "Sure, she is blessed, but you don't all need to be my biological mothers to be blessed". Or in still other words: "While you are technically right about my mother, don't think so much about blood relations and tribes!"
well it does! Only when the Father in question is the only true God to Whom all knees shall bent and all tongues shall confess. Can you even ponder you're putting the One true God in equal footing to a blessed woman?
Genesis : God made he him : male & female created he them What one believes as your god & my god is not the point , nor does it matter What matters is, What is, which was, & will be, Remember Christ gave a new Commandment " Love thy Brethren" to which Interacting with the saints serve the Commandment for one, not new for God for "In the two Commandments hang the law & the prophets " again to the said Commanments it is crucial to believe in a literal Adam & Eve , not spiritualize it away , to know there have been been no mixes with the Physical seed of Adam other than Spiritual influences , cooked up by hollywood & Protestant erranous interpretation, For whom did Christ come for, as orginally envisioned by God when he first cut the Covenant with Abraham? "My God My God why do you forsake me " immediately after which he said "Father unto thy hands I commend my Spirit " The second Adam echoeing the last words of the First Adam, the only one(s) who walked & talked with God in the garden as a friend, from where coined the phrase "Abraham, friend of God " Even as the Bible states in Geneology " " --- & Adam , son of God " So did God foresake his son Adam & his seed? Unto Abraham said he " I will bless them that bless you --- " & Your seed shall be like the sands & stars WHICH SEED ARE THE SEED OF FAITH God is not a respector of persons neither an individual or a group God is God & not a Tribal god Give unto God what is to God -- FAITH , without which it is not possible to please him, but surely not a Leavened/Corrupted Faith as in Protestantism's Faith Only, The only reason for the 2nd temple was for the Messiah to enter it & finding it Corrupted made & used a whip to overturn the TABLES, the tables of the leavens of the Pharisees (Jews) & Herod (Gentiles) Unto his warning " Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees & Herod, The leaven of the LAW/FAITH resp, --
Most poorly catechised Catholics think, as I did, that the Immaculate Conception relates to Jesus, when obviously it doesn’t. Protestants go ballistic say in that both this dogma and the Assumption is not true because they are not mentioned in the bible forgetting that Jn 21:25 says that not everything is in the bible like the words Bible & Trinity. Mary had to be conceived immaculately and she also had to have a saviour who saved her “in advance”. As the Theotokos and Ark of the New Covenant, she had to be sinless which she was during her life on earth and hence assumed into Heaven where she is Queen and the woman of Rev 12. For the sceptics, if she wasn’t assumed bodily into Heaven, where are her relics?
In regards to Jesus, John 13:13-14. In regard to the Spirit, is He not fully God? Is not every prayer to the Father in the name of the Son also received in the name of the Spirit, in view of the Trinity?
Suffice it to say the bible says to pray to God and only to God. Some people are more sprupulous about it, but we all believe in the trinity. Praying to Jesus is praying to God and so is praying to the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 6:21 says “For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field. If your heart treasures Mary then your treasure is no longer Christ. If Mary is the sole reason for which you are sanctified, then you’re no longer sanctified by Christ, which would be a false gospel. There’s no relationship with Christ when we confirm Mary in prayer for your desires, life problems, and Christian walk. We place our hope and faith and love and dedication and allegiance to Christ alone. The treasure being the kingdom of God is the understanding that Jesus sits at the right hand of the throne of God, governing the kingdom of God. If Marry is your intercessor of reconciliation, then Christ is no longer reconciling you to God. if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. Peace with God is not peace with Mary. The blessed virgin Mary considered God her savior. She needed a savior just as we all do and she’s the perfect example of obedience, of course. Like Abraham, she listened and obeyed. But like Abraham, she is not an intercessor entity for a relationship with Christ. Shes the example of perfect obedience to Christ. I want to be like her. I want to love Christ the way she did. I want to love God the way she did. I want to put my faith in Christ alone the way she did. I want to pray to the father alone. Not pray to her, asking her to make the father listen to me which scripture clearly says he hears everything I say. Who is your ultimate treasure? Where is your relationship with Christ?
You completely misinterpret John 5:16-17 ! Also sin is sin and all sin brings death if one is not a believer! The sins of believers are all forgiven. Now. One hast to know and understand what a true believer is! And for a start baby baptism or baptism on its own at any age does not save. Some do believe that if you have grown up in the Church and gone through all the rights of first communion and attended communion etc you are saved but not so!, and here I include all the various denominations that lead people to depend on these things!! Lots of people can spend their entire lives going to Church and not be saved and will go to hell. Why? Because they have not been truly regenerated by God. Not been born from above by a work of God. Not been filled by the Holy Spirit and brought to a true faith and repentance by God. All this is the work of God ALONE!, We cannot add to it we cannot assist in it. God in His grace and power does it in a moment of time - when and where He chooses to. And He only does it for the elect and he employs the preaching of the true Gospel.
We have no dialogue with the saints. We do have a dialogue with this living among us. There is no utility in petitioning a dead saint to pray for you. They are already doing that if they are praying. Tou can petition living saints because you can have a dialogue with them.
The healing of the paralytic is a wonderful example with other implications as well (paedobaptism), thank you! Quick question, do you consider prayer an act of worship in itself? Veneration? If not, what would be the problem with regularly praying to a demon, even if it were to curse it (by name) every night before you go to bed?
Focusing on the demonic too much draws us away from Christ. Demons aren't even as powerful as angels. Just trust in God. You cursing a demon isn't going to do much. But you growing in your relationship with the communion of the saints and relationship with God will.
Prayer (by definition) is asking for something. So hopefully that explains why we wouldn't ask the demons for anything. As for speaking to demons, Jesus does, so it obviously isn't inherently sinful. But it IS almost always a stupid idea, since you'd be getting into a conversation with someone smarter and stronger than you who means to confuse, deceive, and hurt you. So basically, the same reasons you wouldn't go poke a big dog with a stick unless you really needed to.
@@JosephHeschmeyer thanks, Joe! Yeah, I guess any "requests" we would make of a demon would actually be commands in the name of Jesus. We would still consider prayers of thanksgiving legit prayers, though right? Even if it doesn't contain a request? If So, should we say that prayer is "talking to invisible spirits"?
@@mikethemonsta15 the Thanksgiving prayers questions had less to do with thanking demons and more to do with questioning whether we have to be requesting something (from God or saints) in order for it to be considered a prayer. Joe mentioned that prayers are "asking for something", but the glory be doesn't ask for anything, yet we still consider it a prayer. Just wondering if we should more specifically define what prayer is. I know this may sound like logic parsing, but the details are important to me right now as I'm considering conversion.
Yes ask the Catholic Mary to pray for u. A human that cannot hear the prayers more than 2 persons at the same time even if she could hear. Because Mary is not god.
Rev 5 :8-12 ➨ INTERCESSION of the SAINTS: REV 5 v 8... 8 When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones. 9 They sang a new hymn: "Worthy are you to receive the scroll and to break open its seals, for you were slain and with your blood you purchased for God those from every tribe and tongue, people and nation. Only an Omniscient God can understand all the languages of all nations Nations..John Is a creature and Cant. Only an Omniscient God. 13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, everything in the universe, cry out: "To the one who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor, glory and might, forever and ever."Now John HERD ALL THIS all those languages of the earth. How did He hear all those Languages and understand them . God Had to have made it possible for John why couldn’t he do that for those in Heaven as well.. So why cant Mary and the saints hear since they have an Omniscient God to Make things Know to them the saints don’t have to Be Omniscient. God gave them that ability. What are , the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders doing with . Those Prayers in their hands the prayers of the holy ones.Why did God give those Prays to them to Give them to Him 9When he broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar 8 the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God.10 cried out in a loud voice, "How long will it be, holy and true master, 9 before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?"11Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to be patient a little while longer until the number was filled of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been. This Makes It Know to those Saints In Heaven That God would avenge the saints On earth at a Further tine The lord can Make know to those in heaven what happens on earth at a future time They are Now aware of thing going on Now do you think since they pray to the Lord they would not be praying to the Lord for their Brothers and Sisters of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been to preserve them as the others had been . What act of Love are Christians told to do for one another Pray for one another Rev18: 19-24 What’s the reaction to those in heaven… To the destruction Of Babylon On earth if they aren’t made aware of what’s happening on earth. God made them aware giving Biblical proof that The Saints can be made aware of what’s taking place on Earth. They must have seen it Because allowed them to see it. Mathew 18:6-7 Do not harm little children because God loves them as well as Babes in the Faith Physically or spiritually. . 6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Why does he say this “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. What does that mean the Angles are assigned to these children to watch over them and pray for them. They go before the father and Intercede for them . How do Angles know what is taking place on earth Angles are not Omniscient God thru the Holy Sprit reveals it to them they don’t have to be Omniscient. Luke 15:7 I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance. How can People in heaven rejoice over someone coming to repentance? If they’re not aware of their repentance. Now since Mary and the Saints are In heaven are they aware of their repentance and rejoice. Those in Heaven must be aware of what’s happening on Earth. Luke 15:10 In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents." Those in Heaven must be aware of what’s happening on Earth
No it doesn't. The phrase "most powerful" simply means having A LOT of power, but it is not the same thing as saying "ALL powerful" which means having ABSOLUTE power, and which is a title that belongs to God alone
It will be interesting what other Catholics say to that. I would say, "Virgin Most Powerful Radio" is a troubling title. It's kind of like calling Mary, Co-Redemptrix. The Catholic church has officially walked that title back some, because they know how it sounds. The title does persist though, and that's how you get station name virgin most powerful radio, because lines are being crossed.
@@ConnieRossini That's what some of us see as a problem though. Mary is deemed to be sinless, and fully infused w/ grace, far above what any other person has. She's near to Christ. Except she is his human mother, not a divine mother. Yet the attributes given to her, by Catholic dogma, do make her seem more divine than human.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 Adam and Eve were also created without sin and could have remained free from sin by God's grace, but chose to disobey. Mary is simply a human being as human beings were meant to be. And Jesus told us to be perfect like His Heavenly Father is. We, like Mary, can only be so through grace.
