Proving that the Saints in Heaven Hear Our Prayer 

I am sorry for your loss. Be assured that the children of believers even if they have died within the womb before baptism or confirmation are safe with the Lord. If we put our confidence in a baptism or confirmation of a baby, realise it undermines and discourages those who have had miscarriages. Let your confidence be in the right place.

Christtoday that’s actually not the view of the Church. One of the reasons abortion has always been (until Francis) a sin reserved to the Holy See is because it deprives a child from the Beatific vision.

​@@christtoday9136And the children of unbelievers...? Perhaps it was unintentional, but you make it sound as though our hope for our children's salvation is in the strength of our faith as parents. Catholics believe that innocent children who die before reaching the age of reason (and sin) receive eternal happiness. We also believe that baptism imparts grace and removes the stain of original sin from souls. This cannot be a bad thing, even for the youngest of children. Catholics also believe in baptism of desire, and baptism by blood (martyrdom), as well as baptism by water. In this way, the Lord secures the possibility of baptism in the majority of cases - including miscarriages.

​@@jaimemorgan5323 Scripture is less clear about the children of unbelievers, though many believe that all children up to what age/ culpability ?? will go to heaven if they die young. In this case, a child of a Muslim, could be understood to die and go to heaven as there would be no desire of baptism etc in that circumstance. The Lord is kind and maybe will deal with all children this way BUT my purpose was to articulate Scripture's assurance for children of believers as found when David lost his firstborn son.

For clarity, it is not about the strength of a parent's faith but about the presence of a parent's faith. Even a little genuine faith unites us to Christ.

I've never even heard the language barrier argument, from anyone ever. We'll have a perfect from of communication there, ,some say it doesn't even involve language as we know it here.

That's where my mind went too.

Si that means they can speak with the dead? You better read what scripture says about necromancy.

@@rbnmnt3341We are biblically prohibited from CONJURING the dead, not from praying for the intercession of the souls in Heaven and Purgatory who have gone before us-and who are, therefore, closer to God than we are.

@@jmj5388 oh that mythical purgatory. No other Comment.

Glory to Him, Forever!

It's a baseless comment. Other Christian will make a case referring to the bible. Atheists don't even believe in the bible.

@weaponofchoice-tc7qs Catholics sometimes become atheists too. It's certainly not confined to protestantism. I would rather see Christians go from one side to the other, rather than become atheists though.

@MouseCheese2019 what is he saying in that verse?

Paul is trusting that God will hear Philemon's prayer and deliver him safely to Philemon's guest room.

Praying to heavely saints is a null prayer. It just can't be validated.

@@calebjushua9252wow! Just wow! Like trying to talk to a rock.

@@beorbeorian150 🕵️ Kindly put some sauce in your comment. Make it a little bit intellectual.

@@calebjushua9252You ask them to make it intellectual yet repeat the thesis this video addresses. This is begging the question.

@@zeektm1762 🕵️ The video does not prove that the early Christians and even the Jews were praying to heavenly saints. That is an intellectual information I am giving you.

Isnt angel of the lord supposed to be Jesus?

​@@Kartal-tp8qq yes, but Abraham didn't know that. The fact that he heard the voice from heaven, (maybe) knew it as "the angel of the Lord" and still did what it told him says something about OT beliefs about prayer with saints and angels. I wouldn't say it's a knockout example that proves we can/should pray to angels and saints, but it's another one we can put in the quiver. I think the weak points here are: 1) The Angel of the Lord is technically God, 2) Abraham doesn't actually speak back through prayer, just does what the voice says and 3) The voice may have been audible, is it prayer if the voice is audible?

​​@@Jfloyd When angels "speak" in Scripture it's rarely audible. It's a common misconception. Paul wasn't transcribing a literal voice in his head from the Holy Spirit. When Isaiah spoke what God told him, it wasn't as if God spoke into his ear as a human would. There are exceptions to this, as many times Angels do come in the form of man, but it isn't the norm. The voice of God is subtle yet overwhelming. Give me a minute to find a passage that tries to describe this feeling.

​​@@Jfloyd There's a lot I wish to quote but the matter of the Voice of God all gets compared to either great Thunder (often causing great fear) or _sheer silence._ When it happens in the Old Testament most can't help but to cover themselves, kneel, and in one instance take off their sandals in fear of soiling that "holy" soil where it happens. There's a lot of this in Exodus and Genesis, and in the NT you have the Transfiguration which got quite the reaction as well. But I'll quote a few and you find the rest. 1 Samuel 7:10 the Voice of God sends the Phillistines running 2 Samuel 22:10 "The Lord thundered from heaven; the Most High uttered his voice." And my favorite, with Elijah, in 1 Kings 19. Note that Elijah hears thunder, earthquakes, fires, but _God was not in it._ Only after that "whisper" or sheer silence does he cover himself. Here it is: He said, “Go out and stand on the mountain before the Lord, for the Lord is about to pass by.” Now there was a great wind, so strong that it was splitting mountains and breaking rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; 12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a sound of sheer silence. 13 When Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood at the entrance of the cave. Then there came a voice to him that said, “What are you doing here, Elijah?

Praying to heavenly saints is a null prayer. It just can't be validated.

Praying to heavenly saints is a null prayer. It just can't be validated.

@@calebjushua9252 Would it be valid if I asked you to pray for me?

@@eyefisher 🧑‍⚖️You can't pray to me to pray for you, like how you pray to Mary to pray for you. 🧑‍⚖️But you can ask me to pray for you. That's what it's supposed to be.

@@calebjushua9252 sure I can. I pray thee to pray for me. A prayer is simply a request or a petition. When we pray to God we worship Him and petition Him directly prayer has a different meaning. When we pray to fellow members of the body of Christ, we are simply asking them to pray for us and with us on our behalf. I've always taken issue with the words "pray to saints" because of the double meaning that "pray" has can be confusing. Which is why I normally say "petition the saints". Bottom line is whether we are alive on earth, or in our eternal reward in heaven, we are all part of the same body, the Body of Christ. And the hand should not say to the foot "I have no need of you."

@@eyefisher 🧑‍⚖️ Will you kneel with eyes closed and pray to me to pray for you? This is how you pray to me Mary, right?

These are the same people that argue Marian visions are demonic apparitions also. It's way more about building themselves up by tearing us down

Protestants don’t understand the fact that during exorcisms if Mary is there present with the priest as he says the rite of exorcism, the demons fear her & the devil hates her.

I believe it’s not just Mary but anyone that is dead that they have a problem with praying too they see it as necromancy no matter what you say to the differ it’s just a lose lose battle

Hi, Anthony. The answer is a little bit involved. For Protestants the starting point is that Catholicism is all of wrong, damnable, and ensuring damnation. The question then is in the details, but everything that is not in the Protestant bible or taught in Protestant tradition is to be taken with suspicion and assumed to be both wrong and dangerous until it can be shown to be not only consistent with Scripture but supported by Scripture. Protestants don't have the refinement of thought and teaching to distinguish between latria and dulia, respectively the worship which is due to God alone and the worship of honour of the good and status to which God has raised creatures, so if there is worship, it is taken by Protestants to be either the true worship which is to be given to God alone, or idolatry (idol-latria, nothing or emptiness worship), worship which should be given to none other than God, but is instead given to something (or nothing, or a placeholder pointing so something which does not in fact exist) which is not God. Many Protestant bibles, sensitive to this thought in Protestants, translate worship when it is applied to creatures with some other word, such as honour or homage, but the word for worship which is given to God is also used with startling frequency and favourably as being given to creatures. This worship which is suitably given to creatures is called dulia, for which Protestants have no category. Beyond this, Protestants don't have valid orders, and so don't have true worship. What then gets taken to be worship for Protestants is verbal expressions of faith and devotion. If verbal expressions of faith and devotion are what constitutes worship, and worship is to be given to God alone, then any expression of faith and devotion which is directed to any being other than God is necessarily idolatry. Since it is demons which induce idolatry, any act of worship so defined is induced by demons. As you can see, Anthony, the entire chain of Protestant reasoning in this matter is one long chain of errors building on other errors, leading to an erroneous conclusion which breaks the fourth Commandment by which God calls on us to honour His and our mother. John, and his second generation disciple Ignatius of Antioch through Polycarp, warned well that rejection of the Eucharist corresponds with being subject to the influence of demons. We must pray and fast that so many good and devout Christians discover and receive the fullness of salvation.

@@Robert-bm2jr Oui ! Et voyez tous ces messages qui disent tous à peu près la même chose! Juste pour défendre leur point de vue insane ! Et tous les chrétiens d ‘origine apostoliques qui s’en moquent éperdument car ces hétérodoxes visent à côté de la cible ( sens exacte du mot péché ) ! Ils n’ont aucun impacte ceux qui cherchent à défendre l’indéfendable ! Laissons-les épuiser leurs cartouches, en vain ! Un siècle de divagations insanes contre + de 2000 ans de vie en Christ, le choix et facile ! Les pauvres, et, ils ne comprennent rien à rien!

false claims, you mean

One thing to contemplate as well is the Church Body that Christ was teaching of and which the apostles learned … is that those who are are part of the Body each live forever and have their own role. When you look at the Hail Mary … it’s an intercession prayer that is not self orientated but for a community. “Hail Mary full of grace, pray for US sinners now and at the hour of our death”. It’s not asking her to pray for Me, it’s Us. Same thing with the Lords Prayer, I and Me are not pronouns in the prayer. It’s US, OUR. Prayer is not supposed to be transactional, most of the prayers you will find in Catholic daily prayers are for helping others or for community, or to give reflection on the life of Christ and his mysteries.

God Bless! Any prayer requests?

That isn't talking about Rachel herself. That is the descendants of Rachel.

@@huntsman528 "A voice was heard in Ramah, weeping and loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for her children; she refused to be comforted, because they are no more." It's clearly Rachel weeping about what happend to her descendants.

​​@@huntsman528😂 so much for twisting. Least you can say is it is metaphoric. No need to force in meanings that are not there

I think that's symbolic. Just like how John the Baptist is "Elijah," or the Messiah the "son of David," so on.

@@AmpwichFALSE. Sorry that’s just not true. You can’t prove it, nor is it proper interpretation. She actually wept.

​​@weaponofchoice-tc7qs Praying to heavenly saints is a null prayer. It just can't be validated.

@@calebjushua9252God is not a god of the dead. And prayers are always directed at Him even as we ask our friends, saints, guardian angels to pray for us. Were Elijah and Moses dead when they appeared with Jesus in mt Taber? They were alive and aware not asleep/dead.

@@Fiona2254 🧑‍⚖️ I did not say that the saints are spiritually dead in heaven. Of course, they are 100% alive. However, Jesus Christ never instructed us to communicate with them through prayers. 🧑‍⚖️ In fact, throughout the old and new testament, there's no account of someone praying to a heavenly saint. In the old testament, in order to communicate the dead, you must consult a witchcraft like what Saul did to reach out to Samuel. And this act is prohibited. Saul could have prayed to Samuel if praying to heavenly saints does really work.

St Francis of Assisi? Try Italian 😂 People are just goofy about this stuff, heaven isn’t Babel😂

@@calebjushua9252 We ARE biblically exhorted to pray for one another (James 5:16, Job 42:8, Colossians 1:9-12), and that includes “the great cloud of witnesses” (Hebrews 12:1) that surrounds us: the saints in Heaven and the Holy Souls in Purgatory. This “communion of saints” is rejected by Protestantism to varying degrees, but it is nevertheless the faith of the early Church, the Early Church Fathers and the Christian Church until the Reformation. We are biblically prohibited from CONJURING the spirits of the dead, but that is quite different from asking saints and Holy Souls to pray to God on our behalf; they are closer to Him than the living are, and their prayers are thus more efficacious. The intent of Christian prayer to angels, saints and Holy Souls is not to establish a dialogue or generate an apparition, although the Most High does permit such phenomena, on rare occasion and for specific reasons.

That's a super good point!! It's a kingdom of love shared in the one body of Christ, which all glorifies God the greater

I was thinking of that point too. God wants us praying for one another, to show love, to receive love and to exercise it. I don't believe in praying to departed saints, but I believe strongly in intercessory prayer. I am more confident when another prays for me than when i pray for myself. It also seems as if God shows answer to prayer more when I pray for other. I like the idea that departed saints may pray for us. there is something about the great cloud of witnesses the bible speaks of. I can't get comfortable w/ praying to any other than God though.

@@saintejeannedarc9460 Maybe you would like Jeanne d'Arc to pray for you if she could and you are allowed to ask :) At worst God will intercept the prayers and throw them in the trash... ;)

​@@miracles_metanoia That is a false dichotomy about prayer you have introduced to back the protestant false doctrine of not praying to the saints. Mass is the only catholic prayer that can only be offered to God not to any saint. Mass is worship, it is adoration of the highest level in Catholicism. Any other type of prayer can indeed be directed to a saint. You have falsely limited the meaning of prayer to supplication (ask) which is false. Rather the popular culture use the word prayer to mean "ask" not historic Christians. Christians have always understood prayer to mean: Worship, thanksgiving, adoration, supplication etc.

@@saintejeannedarc9460 Why do you go by St Jeanne D arc. Don't you think it is appropriate for you to let go of that name? Are you a lapsed catholic?

Hi, Matthew. I'm glad to see you engaging with the material, and its inducing further thoughts. For all that there is value in the line of thought that you're pursuing, I'm afraid that in this matter your line of thought won't carry force to persuade people, because it misunderstands what Jesus was saying when he spoke of the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. In that passage, Jesus was indeed creating a staircase, with all Old Testament figures finding their place below John the Baptist ( not Presbyterian! ; ) ) and the least in the Kingdom being greater than John; but the least in the Kingdom is not ambiguous. Jesus has already identified Himself as the least in the Kingdom, having come to serve rather than be served, having humbled Himself to take the form of a slave, having nowhere to lay His head, having given Himself fully for God's glory and the good of Man. The point of Jesus' message here is that all of Heavenly life flows from, revolves around, and is directed to Him, so that He can gather it all, put it in its proper place and offer it, so perfected, to His Father.

It’s as if thinking we can love outside God. We love through God. There’s no loving anyone without God. God is Love. We can’t love family, friends, country, saints and angels outside God. God doesn’t get jealous because we love our mother or our husband or our children. We don’t take away from loving Him when we love others. We can’t love them without Him. It’s nonsense. We can’t even love our mother or our father or anyone more than He Loves them. Just like no one can love us more than He does. When we love anyone on earth or in purgatory or in heaven, we are connecting and participating in our small earthly capacity with His Love. As long as we can love, God is with us. That communion of love is eternal in All of us, doesn’t stop in heaven. It only increases. Of course heaven can hear our prayers and feel our love, that’s our language.

I agree regarding confusion about prayer. In this video and in other sources I have consulted, the terms "praying" and "talking" are used synonymously, but I don't think they are synonyms. When Paul and others go to or write to fellow Christians for intercessory prayer, this is not the same as praying to departed saints. Having a conversation with someone, including in a vision or dream and with another human or spiritual being is not the same as engaging in prayer. Talking/conversing and praying are nothing alike. I have not been able to find a single example in the Bible where a believer either before or after Christ's resurrection prays to departed saints. And again, by "prays" I don't mean "talk."

Praying to heavely saints is a null prayer. It just can't be validated.

I don't understand the example which the Catholics are giving about human intercession. They say if humans can intercede on earth then they can certainly intercede in heaven. One thing they forget is that no matter who intercedes for you on earth, in heaven Jesus will always be the only One True High Priest who will always intercede for all of us. So you giving out that example is silly. Also if I don't pray or ask the saints in heaven to intercede for me, will my prayers be unanswered? The only reason someone will want saints to intercede is that they don't have a close relationship with God. That's why they want to go that route

@weaponofchoice-tc7qs what's wrong in judging and didn't I ask you a simple question? Will my prayers be answered if I avoid the saints in heaven and direct my prayers to my Only High Priest Jesus Christ? Would you care to answer this? The only answer is yes and that's why I don't have to go through the saints. Plz reply so I can know what you believe in

@weaponofchoice-tc7qs @weaponofchoice-tc7qs you love to write thousands of words but you are dodging my question. You are giving me all the earthly examples.may be you don't understand a simple question.i will ask you again.. will my prayers be answered if I don't go through saints in heaven or Earth? This time plz answer. Sometimes it's okay to concede than to avoid

@@danielhunter1773 You write too much, jump to conclusions and your comments are full of straw men, red herrings and useless misrepresentations of the Communion of Saints because you doubt the Word of God. It’s your “ME” first then Jesus protestant dilemma. Try listening to the video again. You said, “if I don't pray or ask the saints in heaven to intercede for me, will my prayers be unanswered? The only reason someone will want saints to intercede is that they don't have a close relationship with God.” The simple answer to both is maybe yes, maybe no either way it’s up to God if he answers your prayers and No, that is a false insinuation.

@weaponofchoice-tc7qs Good point. I guess that's why there are so many protestant churches. Total chaos.

Praying to heavenly saints is a null prayer. It just can't be validated.

@@calebjushua9252you’re just stubborn that’s all. Joe made a whole video explaining the opposite with great detail, and all you can say is “nah”. There’s no point of engaging with you lol

@@levrai944 🕵️ You must have known the difference between claim and truth. For a doctrinal claim to be true, it must have been taught by Jesus Christ himself and/or instructed to his apostles. Where is Joe's proof that Jesus commanded the apostles and/or disciples to pray to heavenly saints? 🧑‍⚖️ Throughout the Scriptures (both old and new testaments) you can never read a single account of someone praying to heavenly saints. Jesus himself never instructed his apostles to do such. THEREFORE, Catholic doctrine of praying to heavenly saints is a manmade tradition based on mere claims and not a teaching of Jesus Christ.

The bible specifically says do not quarrel about words.... And also , if you tell someone two times and they don't want to listen , they are heretic.... Just stand firm in your faith.Plant the seed and walk away.You don't have to convince them that is up to god and then.

I was watching this while having dinner with my mom and she quickly glanced at the tv when she heard it 😂😂😂

I have nothing much against normal anime but it’s not anima, lol

I've never used the argument mentioned in this video about praying to saints, but there is biblical mention of it: And no wonder, since Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 2 Cor. 11:14

@@saintejeannedarc9460 I thought of this one. Only that in its context refers to actual human men masquerading as good teachers of righteousness rather than actual demonic apparitions. I think Paul’s point is that, evil doesn’t always look evil. I also think it’s a reference to “the burning ones” or “shining ones”, which is what seraphim means, namely, that the devil was an angel of light and became darkness. Ie. ‘A 1/3 of the stars of heaven fell.’ As the verse stands alone, I don’t think we can conclude that demons can manifest as mother Mary or the saints or even Jesus. I think it simply is a reference to Satan being once a minister of righteousness, and yet falling from grace as did those brothers of Galatians Paul wrote to.

​@@LayRule "Speaking of Biblical authority to a Protestant, can we not pose this question? What biblical evidence do we have that a demon can create a false apparition?" Depending on what you are considering an apparition, we could consider the following: 1. The appearance of Samuel to the Witch and Endor. This is disputed whether or not Samuel was actually contacted, or a demon wearing his guise. 2. The tempting of Christ by the Devil, specifically when the Devil shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth and says they can be His if Jesus will only bow to him. 3. "For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." - Matthew 24:24. The nature of the deceptions is not specified here, but "great signs and wonders" leaves a lot on the table. 4. You have already responded to the 2 Corinthians 11:14 mention above. 5. "The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed." - Revelation 13:15. Admittedly, Revelation is rife with allegory, so your mileage may vary with how this is interpreted and received, but some would contest that the False Prophet and later on the three frog-like spirits could do what you specify. "And one more question, if speaking unto spiritual brothers and sisters whom we are connected to via the Spirit is not permissible, why do they believe they have the authority to speak to the devil or demons in rebuke? When biblical evidence suggests the only ones that seem to have ever taken part in deliverance and speak to devils is our Lord and the apostles?" Not strictly speaking accurate, as the Apostles said they saw others casting out unclean spirits in Christ's name who were not affiliated with them directly, plus there are those groups such as the seventy that were commissioned by Christ to go out and do just that. Finally, there are Protestant exorcisms, though they don't get the press that Catholic ones do. Maybe they just make for worse movies.

@@LayRule You're definitely right that Paul's main point is that evil doesn't always look like evil. There are other scriptures to be taken as a whole w/ this one. First though, again it's true that it's in the context of false human teachers, but we can't ignore the wording of "Satan poses as an angel of light", so could pose as any human that we take to be divine and enlightened, or an angel. Then there's 1 John 4:1 1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. John is also talking of false prophets, but warns us to test the spirits. It's definitive wording. By what spirit are these people speaking on behalf, by an evil spirit, the Holy Spirit, or a sanctified spirit, which would ultimately be the Holy Spirit? There is also 1 Peter 5:8 8Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

@@saintejeannedarc9460 I could just as easily appeal to the actual apparitions themselves where, for instance, Marian apparitions are tested as far as the actual message of the apparition is to continue to pray and seek Jesus Christ her son. The Church tests these, actual investigations are conducted in order to “test the spirits” so to speak. So we can at least say the Church has this biblical idea of investigatory analysis when I comes to miracles and apparitions. And not simply in-house authority but also appealing to less biased company. As far as these passages go, Catholic doctrine, which I would presume you oppose, has been built on similarly inconspicuous passages of scripture that seem to have been tested through time and have proved useful and profitable for the Christian. I can’t concede anything in scripture that would condemn saintly apparitions that would also condemn something as dogmatic and glorious as the incarnation, miraculous moments of divine revelation and conversion, and divine courage given by a Holy Spirit. I think often time, in skepticism of traditional Catholic AND orthodox moments of apparitional revelation and miraculous wonders, the Protestant has to be weary how he/she proceeds as not to condemn themselves. In response to “someone casting out devils in your name.” I’d wonder if this wasn’t a priest who Jesus also in proceeding chapters says “if I cast out devils by beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out.” Notice our Lord does not say ,” he doesn’t have that authority.” But he is able to cast them out. How so? Because priest had that authority from God. But we see in Acts, a shift in the authority, where now a priest seems to be helpless in the presence of a demon in an act of deliverance and is beaten, stark naked i might add. It’s a wonderful display of how Jewish priestly authority as been shifted to the new high priest and his priests for it says “Jesus I know and Paul I know but who are you?”

At least the orthodox have valid sacraments.

He really is the best one bc Lofton comes off a lil’ snarky.😂

They are against you being against them and those that say that their sacraments are invalid.

the real prophet Samuel appears and tells Saul the truth, during the seance with the witch of Endor (1 Samuel 28:7-20). That was God’s will, because demons and false spirits would not tell the truth. Therefore, it was another instance of God desiring to break the artificial Protestant barrier between heaven and earth, by sending Saul to break through the nonsense of the seance.

Hi, melvin. How about this: It is God's will for Man to trust and obey God, so that the order and structure He created in nature operate according to its nature to serve the greater glory of God and Man's good. Nonetheless, there is an order and structure in nature, and man does have the ability to engage with it, even when the ways in which he engages with it is not according to God's will and therefore does not fully tend to God's glory and Man's good. Even in this diminished condition, however, it is God's will that they have the nature that they have and that man have the powers that he has, so God works with that to bring such good as it yet may, such as a refutation of the ad hoc doctrine of the separation of the living from those who have "fallen asleep". Samuel was at rest, so for this reason also sleep is an apt metaphor, but he was nonetheless aware in detail of developments on earth and able the hear, understand, and respond to Saul's concerns. This doesn't directly answer your question, melvin, but we can bridge that by recalling that demons are even willing to debase themselves to the point of responding to human invocations if they perceive that this effrontery will further debase men. The significance then would be not so much in the power of demons to provide for contact with the dead as the commitment of demons to induce men to give way to fear, desperation, thirst for power, distrust of God, disobedience to God, and openness to the operation of demons.

It's an odd practice. We are told it's no different than asking someone to pray for us. Yet it is prayer to departed saints, and the language gets really uncomfortable, esp. when the prayers are to Mary, as she is often given the attributes and praise due only to God.

@@saintejeannedarc9460 that’s the problem. May God be merciful with many Catholics, save them from this false teachers, who use the scriptures to deceive many.

​@@Mariano-hc4ykthe Catholic church made the Bible

@@andreeattieh2963 not true

Ummm weird cause St Paul told Christians to obey the teaching whether given by written epistle or spoken word 🤔 2 Thess 2:15

@@Paisios77 St. Paul said "To Hold firmly to the Spoken/Oral and Written Epistles/Letters Traditions" (no Gospels/no Revelation just a Partial Scriptures only) before he was martyrdom in around 67 A.D. before the 2nd Temple was destroyed by the Roman Empire in 70 A.D. ... (ref. 2 Thessa 2:15)... Take Note: Study the TIME Line Period when St. Paul wrote his Epistles to the Thessalonians... and his Epistles to the Corinthians... There were only PARTIAL Written Tradition in the time of Paul, Peter, and James when they were still alive, and not completed yet... mostly Letters/Epistles only from St. Paul, Apostles Peter, and James... the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John including the Revelation were not written down yet... Historically speaking... The Gospels were written down after the 2nd Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. and the Revelation to John was around 92-96 A.D. only... The Final COMPLETION of Individual Manuscripts distributed to the Early 7 Churches of God in Asia Minor (Presently Turkey) was around 110 A.D. translated all Original Hebrew-Aramaic manuscripts into Greek Language, except for St. Paul and St. Luke, originally written in Greek... All manuscripts after the REVELATION were considered by the Early Churches of the 1st Cent. A.D. as NOT INSPIRED by the Holy Spirit, such as the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, Thomas, Judas Iscariots, Nicodemus, Letters of Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Augustine, etc... After St. Paul wrote his Epistles to the Thessalonians, where the WRITTEN TRADITION was just PARTIAL, only EPISTLES/LETTERS... NO GOSPEL, and NO REVELATIONS to John yet at the time St. Paul, Peter, and James were still alive... After St. Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians, he revealed to them in his 2nd letter that he was taken into the 3rd Heaven by God through his VISION and God showed him the place (God's Throne) and heard the WORD (Voice) of God that No Man had ever heard before nor understood (ref. 2 Corin. 12:1-4). From that VISION, St. Paul knew that the WORD of God would be Completely Written by Inspired Men guided by the Holy Spirit "AFTER" St. Paul was beheaded in Rome, around 67 A.D. That was why St. Paul wrote his 1st Epistle/Letter to the CORINTHIANS in "Advance Manner" before he died, "DO NOT GO BEYOND/EXCEED WHAT IS WRITTEN." (ref. 1 Corin. 4:6), for he knew it would be finished AFTER he died... surely, it came true, the Final "Written Word of God" was Completed after he died... St. Paul knew he could not see the Final Completion of the Word of God that was why he wrote his 1st Letter to the Corinthians in ADVANCE MANNER." ANALOGY... Prophet Moses was taken by God to the Highest Mountain to show him the Promised Land but was not allowed to be (enter) there... the same way... St. Paul was taken to the 3rd Heaven to show him that the "Word of God" (Holy Scriptures) will be Finally Written down Completely but he will not be able to see/witness the completion of it, for his time on Earth was near (death)... the same analogy.... So, St. Paul wrote in ADVANCE MANNER to the Corinthians... DO NOT GO BEYOND/EXCEED WHAT IS WRITTEN." ... What was WRITTEN?... Was it the Written Epistles Tradition only in Thessalonians or the Complete "Written WORD of God" that was written in advance by St. Paul to the Corinthians?... AFTER the Word of God was Individually written down and distributed in the early 7 Churches of God in Asia Minor around 110 A.D., these individual Manuscripts (not compiled as a Book/Bible yet) became the Authoritative GUIDE (Measurement) for Teaching, for Reproofing, for Correcting, for Instructing, and for Training in Righteousness written in advance manner by St. Paul to Timothy (ref. 2 Timothy 3:16)... As long as the Oral/Spoken Tradition does not contradict the COMPLETE Written Tradition (not Epistles Only), that was fine (O.k.) for Christians to continue practicing... However, if not, it must be stopped (ceased), and removed for that is God's WILL and PREROGATIVES... Facts and Truth of the Matters, Biblically and Historically speaking... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.

@@jvlp2046 no offense but Im not reading your book you posted in the comment section. I dont have time for that

@@Paisios77 I do not own any Biblical BOOKS as you claimed, I just have the Individual Printed Manuscripts of the WORD of God (Holy Scriptures) in the Greek language and the WISDOM that comes from the Guidance of the Holy Spirit... So, I do not mind if no one reads my comments... True Christian's duty is to expose Scriptural/Biblical TRUTH... Conversion of the Hearts and Mind of the People comes from the Power of God alone... Those who do not want to accept the Biblical TRUTH. "Shake the Dust off your Feet/Sandals," as I do unto you, as commanded by Christ Jesus... Praise be to God in Christ... Amen.

When I first heard about people like Padre Pio that had stigmata, I was disgusted by it. I thought in my heart God would never allow people to make them suffer like Jesus, because on the cross His work was finished. There would be no necessity for anyone to suffer stigmata in my opinion and hence it wasn't necessary, it would be suffering in vain, which I deemed totally evil. Years passed and I took a look at few pictures that exist of Padre Pio showing his stigmata and having a smile on his face, instead of being terrified and miserable about it. Then these two bible passages came into my mind: 1 Pet 4:13: "But rejoice insofar as you are sharing Christ's sufferings, so that you may also be glad and shout for joy when his glory is revealed." 2 Cor 1:5-6: "For just as the sufferings of Christ are abundant for us, so also our consolation is abundant through Christ. If we are being afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation; if we are being consoled, it is for your consolation, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we are also suffering." People like Padre Pio were chosen to participate in the sufferings of Christ in a mystic way. Others died as martyrs through natural remedies. The point is that such sufferings are a witness of what Christ did for us, suffering in faith is a cheerful experience despite the pain it brings and it is also a proclamation to the world who Christ is and what He did for us and that he was worth the suffering. We all have to die to ourselves to be saved and some saints lived through that in a very literal way. Christ died for us to receive us and we have to die to ourselves, to receive Christ. This is the exchange of the cross. That doesn't mean each of us has to physically die by martyrdom or to live a harmful or miserable way to please God, quite the contrary is true; it is mostly spiritual in a way of self denial and resisting the world to be put above God for us. That's also the reason for fasting, to say no to something that's not sinful, but declare that God is more important for us than the pleasure of, let's say, good food. You should not feel miserable if you fast and unhappy about it, but rather sacrifice that what you can bear in joy and for the rest thank God that you have it and consume it with no guilt by comparing yourself to people that do more, because we are meant to be joyful in Christ. I know it's hard to understand how someone like St. Padre Pio or other saints, which sacrificed a lot of suffering for God, could bear it, but that is an example of holiness they showed us, which isn't something we can just apprehend, hence they are well known saints and we are not and they will be called greater in heaven. Rom 12:1: "I appeal to you therefore, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship." Oh, and surely Jesus wasn't pierced through the palm of His hands, which is where Padre Pio had his stigmata. But does that much accuracy really matter? The point was to show how someone can cheerfully suffer through God and love people abundantly and have strong faith despite all of it. Another example for such would be pope John Paul 2 who suffered horribly through his Parkinson disease and yet still actively tried to praise God and sing hymns to him even though his condition became that of resembling but a worm in a worldly sense. The worldly mind sees the gruesomeness and seeks to explain it away, because the wound should be on the wrist and not the palm, but the spiritual mind recognizes the faith those men of God had even in horrendous suffering and ultimately highlights the hope that is in Christ, which suffering and death cannot take away.

Is Jesus dead

No they are not dead.They are very much alive.!!!

Dying Jesus destroyed our death,rising he restores our life as we repeat at Mass.!

Guys, I was just trying to make fun of the typical atheist-like Protestant objection.

But it doesn't follow that heavenly saints are appointed to receive and grant prayers.

because they are part of the body of the church😁😁

Why did the disciples have to send for Peter to raise Tabitha (Dorcas)?

Joe just did an hour long video and this is your comment? Sad.

It is personal question, noone can give you the answer unless you pray for it.

@veekee I'm not going to advocate for praying to departed saints, and I don't practice it either, as I don't see it in the bible. The great cloud of witnesses, do appear to be those who have gone on before us, as well as angels and it's comforting to know they are aware of us. If you keep reading Hebrews 11 you come to: 22Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels 23in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. So I do think that cloud of witnesses is literal, and not all souls are asleep. It mentions the spirits of the righteous made perfect and the congregation of the firstborn and all are in joyful assembly. It is comforting to know that when we go through hard times, even if no one is aware to pray for us, that some one is rooting for us, whether a departed saint, from OT to New, or an angel, and of course our high priest, who advocates for us day and night.

​@@saintejeannedarc9460the Bible says to pray for one another so why not Mary and the saints

😂 nice post. Get your patrons correct St Victor is not for parking spaces C'mon man 😊

@@iggyantiochMais quelle idiotie ! Qu’en sais-tu ? Toi qui ne prie jamais ! Ton manque de savoir te permet-il dans discourir ? Quand on ne sais rien ! On se tais! Sinon, c’est pur mental et pipi de chat !

@@iggyantiochUn hérétique le conçoit ainsi, mais, par expérience ci-dessus, je connais que St Victor répond à tous nos soucis comme un vrai soldat de la legion thébaine ! et j’avais un train à prendre à Lausanne. Le moindre retard, catastrophe ! Heureusement que st Victor n’est pas Antiochien !

@@bernardauberson7218 Ok.

@@iggyantioch Mais qu’ en sais-tu … mal formé ! As- tu des contacts personnels avec St Victor ? A coup sûr, tu ne sais même pas de quel St Victor il s’agit ! Alors tais-toi ! Quand on est ignorant, au moins , on peut rester modeste, la modestie n’est pas ce qui t’étrangle, non ?

@weaponofchoice-tc7qs Why do we need a good start on this? Not praying to departed saints means we pray to God all the more. It also means we pray for living saints more, and living saints surely need our intercession, but I don't see how glorified saints do, since they live in perfect peace and perfection w/ Almighty God. While we all struggle here on earth.

@@saintejeannedarc9460 Hi, jeanne. There are a couple of refinements needed with your reasoning in this matter. The first item has an underlying assumption which does not align well with either experience or psychology. The underlying assumption is that time and / or energy spent in petition for the patronage of the Saints in Heaven is time and / or energy not available to be spent in petition directly to God. In reality the human frame is designed and constructed to pass through various phases, so that all the dimensions of life are addressed, not fully or continuously or simultaneously, but in sequence and in rhythm. Quite apart from its interference with the fulfilment of other duties, a commitment to spend all one's time in prayer to God soon shows itself to be impossible of fulfilment. So at this point we already have at least two objections to your underlying assumption that prayer with saints competes with prayer with God: the need to turn aside from prayer to God in order to attend to other duties, and the impossibility of fulfilment of the objective if attempted literally. Happily, prayer to saints has a character different from prayer to God, so that they do not stand in competition with one another. The second item has an underlying confusion regarding the character of engagement with members of the Church. When we pray to Saints (including angels) we may be engaging in (familiar) conversation and we may be seeking their intercession from their position at once of purified love and wisdom and of closeness to and favour with God. In such context we have no thought of seeking anything on their behalf. This portion of the Church we refer to as the Church Triumphant, who now enjoy all good things possible for them to enjoy. The Church Militant continues in battle on earth, and ever stands in need of all supplies. Our prayers to members of the Church Triumphant seeks intercession on behalf of the provision of such need, whether for self, other, or mission. Beyond the Church Militant, there is a third portion of the Church: those who have died in God's love and friendship but without having yet been purified of such attachments, or manner of attachment, to lesser goods which hinder their perfect attachment to God. Such members of the redeemed are indeed assured of Heaven, but need to undergo a process of reconfiguring their attachments to have them align with perfect love of God which also and for that reason loves all things as God would have them love them. These members of the Church are in transition and are referred to as the Church Suffering, principally because their love desires to be one with God while they recognise that their as yet remaining disordered attachments make it not yet possible to be one with God as still lies before them. On their behalf also the Church Militant prays and seeks the intercession of the Saints in Heaven.

I agree. You should put it together! Or perhaps comment on what in this presentation bothers you the most.

do you know trent horn?

You sound crazy with all the capital letters

@@Yan-Shcherbyna Emphasis, Emphasis, Emphasis... that was how I got you noticing them... logically speaking... Amen.

@@jvlp2046 you still sound crazy

@@Yan-Shcherbyna that is called GENIUS... that comes from the Holy Spirit... Amen.

Good thing we have eternal life in Christ.

Look up Salomon temple picture, and you will see two gaint lion with a wing span of 30 feet in the holy of holiness next the the ark of the covenant, these were not in the tabernacle Moses build, so you taking nonsense or just ignorant, God himself told Moses to set up a broze serpent, and it was not Idolatry went they did

18 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. 2 Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Abi, the daughter of Zachariah. 3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, according to all that David his father did. 4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. 5 He trusted in the Lord God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. 6 For he clave to the Lord, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the Lord commanded Moses

@@Triniforchrist you are reaching. Those things were given to them representative of what was in heaven. It's forbidden to pray, kneel or venerate them. Even the angels in heaven know this truth. See that you do not do it. Even a righteous king knew better: 2 Kings 18: 2-6 Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Abi, the daughter of Zachariah. 3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. 4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. 5 He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. 6 For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses. I don't want to hear you don't have to keep the commandments or you are doing something else. It's simple, It's an abomination. Only the demons respect such prayer. Remember when Aaron's son's offered strange fire? It didn't go well. They thought they were doing something to worship the Almighty. He burned them alive. In this video the apologies of this guy don't cut it. The word saints means set apart ones. It's not a golden ticket. Biblically all the believers in Jesus were referred to as saints. Like I was saying it's not a golden ticket, Jesus is the judge!

​@@awesomeoperators2796the Bible says to pray for one another so why not Mary and the saints

@@andreeattieh2963 we are not to pray to the dead. Saul did this and speaking to the dead is necromancy which is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Another truth, saints only means set apart ones. It's not a golden ticket to heaven. People think they are praying to "saints" but in truth they are praying to demons. We are to only honor God himself.

Amen. Lol. Still, Jesus loves us so greatly

I can definitely agree w/ that. We're pretty weird.

Ye of little faith

@essafats5728 I have faith in Jesus, not catholicism.

@@donhaddix3770 Amen. Looks like its a half-adze/underformed faith

@essafats5728 you have no proof for your claims.

@@donhaddix3770 what proof do you need or can comprehend? BTW: be Honest for the love of God, wat is ur faith tradition?

While I may not agree w/ how Joe interprets these scriptures about praying to departed saints, how else do we contend for the faith and about doctrinal matters, but by reading the ultimate text, the bible.

Christ says in Matthew that, like Jonah, he would be in the belly of the earth for 3 days. Acts tells us Christ remained on earth for 40 days before He ascends. So there were 43 days BEFORE Christ went to Heaven. Did the good thief go ahead of the Lord to make sure the lights were on for His arrival? Or, more likely, Paradise that Christ mentions, is Abrahams Boosom. The place where the prisoners Christ preached to in 1st Peter were awaiting the Messiah

I don't find the transfiguration a good example of how the departed are aware of us, and definitely doesn't show why we should pray to them. Hebrews 12:1,2 does show us that the departed are cheering us on though: 1Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us. 2Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God

Thank you for not watching the video and using an irrelevant verse to prove that point.

@@EruIluvatar5It's too bad you can't see from the Bible that there is no trinity like the Catholic Church wants you to believe. The truth is not for everyone.

@@cbooth151 LOL you deny the trinity, you're not even Christian.

​@@cbooth151You're literally a heretic, why should anyone listen to you?

What are you talking about? The Catholic Church is the only denomination that's not shrinking in America. It's growing worldwide faster than the world population by rate AND number.

Really? Then protestants are? Divided? Because of different interpretations the assumed?

Catholicism is the largest denomination in the world, and idk about you but I went to mass today and there was only one pew that was left unfilled.

But it doesn't follow that heavenly saints are appointed to receive and grant prayers.

Because asking for prayer is necessary, me asking Mother of God, Mary, or any of the Saints is the same as asking your friend to pray for you, your family. And the Righteous has more power with their prayers, and Saints are exactly that

Did you just run to the comments before watching the video?

​@@bigman7856what? Why not explain Revelation 6:9-11 ? What say you?

@@bigman7856 why not explain Revelation 6:9-11? Mr.bigman explain it,you're a big man, I hope you're brain is bigger.

@@bigman7856 tell me, is the 5th seal mentioned in Revelation 6:9-11 already happened? Explain it?

This guy had quoted Rev.6:9-11, regarding the 5th seal, this guy Lacked understanding! It's a prophetic revelation ,which has not happened yet 😑👎❌This guy does no understand what he is preaching 👎❌

Who are u talking about?

So who are the people that John saw in his vision of Heaven? You cannot claim that vision is after Judgement unless you believe they are asking God for reparations of the blood of the martytrs and they just did not get the memo that Judgement is a thing of the past for the

@@jayschwartz6131 read it again. Those soups are under the alter and told to rest.

@@Peter-zh5mv ??? So?

@@jayschwartz6131 I knew it would mean nothing to you.

@@Peter-zh5mv so in your opinion John was shown a vision of Heaven, full of souls, after judgment? And those souls are pleading for justice for the blood of the martyrs? After the day of Judgement?

What are you saying? What does talking with angels have to do with the topic? I'm not sure we even know. "Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."

@@huntsman528 Hi, huntsman. When you ask the question what talking to angels who appear in bodily form on earth has to do with the topic of the video, which is how we know that the Saints in heaven hear our prayers, I understand you to be drawing a distinction in kind between talking to angels and talking to Saints. The obvious alternative possibility is that you are talking about angels who appear on earth in bodily form. This alternative possibility I take to be trivial and easily dismissed as nothing more than a convenient phantasm adopted simply for the sake of facilitating conversation. This leaves the distinction in kind between angels in heaven and saints in heaven. I say angels in heaven because they never leave heaven, continually beholding the face of Christ's Father in heaven. It is certainly true that there is a fundamental difference in kind between the angels, whose nature is to be a subsistent form, and the souls of just men made perfect, whose nature is to be the principle of unity and operation of each their own bodies. The relevant and significant consideration here however is not their nature but their condition. Both are pure in their consecration to and union with God, and therefore are fully competent to know, enjoy, and do whatever might correspond to God's will for them. So true is this that throughout the Old Testament, when heaven was shut against man, who was relegated in the case of just men to the limbo of the Fathers, that we find heaven populated nonetheless with saints, who in this case are the good angels. These are the same angels who speak with man and present our prayers to the Father. So God does not make a distinction between the saints who are angels who speak with men and present their prayers to God and the souls of just men made perfect who with the redemption in Christ are likewise ushered into full, direct, and immediate communion with God in heaven. So we see Scripture using the same word Saints to refer to angels in the Old Testament and to refer also to the souls of just men made perfect in the New Testament. Accordingly, there is no basis to suppose that prayer to the souls of just men made perfect is any of forbidden, meaningless, unscriptural, or ineffective. Instead, as with everything else God does, it finds its place in the rich torrent of God's gifts flowing to us through and in Christ.

Sayang hindi mo na gets

nothing holy about it