Тёмный

Does The Message Count as a Bible? 

Mark Ward
Подписаться 21 тыс.
Просмотров 21 тыс.
0% 0

Yes and no. Mostly no, but more yes than some of its many harsh critics realize.
(The opinions in this video are not necessarily those of my employer!)
😎 Help me end Bible translation tribalism, one plow boy at a time:
/ mlward
📖 Check out my book, Authorized: The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible:
amzn.to/2r27Boz
🎥 Watch my Fifty False Friends in the KJV series:
• 50 False Friends in th...
👏 Many, many thanks to the Patreon supporters who make my work possible!
Name, James Duly, Robert Gifford, Lanny M Faulkner, Lucas Key, Dave Thawley, William McAuliff, Razgriz, James Goering, Eric Couture, Martyn Chamberlin, Edward Woods, Thomas Balzamo, Brent M Zenthoefer, Tyler Rolfe, Ruth Lammert, Gregory Nelson Chase, Ron Arduser, Caleb Farris, Dale Buchanan, Jess English, Aaron Spence, Orlando Vergel Jr., John Day, Joshua Bennett, K.Q.E.D., Brent Karding, Kofi Adu-Boahen, Steve McDowell, Kimberly Miller, A.A., James Allman, Steven McDougal, Henry Jordan, Nathan Howard, Rich Weatherly, Joshua Witt, Wade Huber, M.L., Brittany Fisher, Tim Gresham, Lucas Shannon, Easy_Peasy , Caleb Richardson, Jeremy Steinhart, Steve Groom, jac, Todd Bryant, Corey Henley, Jason Sykes, Larry Castle, Luke Burgess, Joel, Joshua Bolch, Kevin Moses, Tyler Harrison, Bryon Self, Angela Ruckman, Nathan N, Gen_Lee_Accepted , Bryan Wilson, David Peterson, Eric Mossman, Jeremiah Mays, Caleb Dugan, Donna Ward, DavidJamie Saxon, Omar Schrock, Philip Morgan, Brad Dixon, James D Leeper, M.A., Nate Patterson, Dennis Kendall, Michelle Lewis, Lewis Kiger, Dustin Burlet, Michael Butera, Reid Ferguson, Josiah R. Dennis, Miguel Lopez, CRB, D.R., Dean C Brown, Kalah Gonzalez, MICHAEL L DUNAVANT, Jonathon Clemens, Travis Manhart, Jess Mainous, Brownfell, Leah Uerkwitz, Joshua Barzon, Benjamin Randolph, Andrew Engelhart, Mark Sarhan, Rachel Schoenberger

Опубликовано:

 

11 сен 2020

Поделиться:

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист
Посмотреть позже
Комментарии : 320   
@MAMoreno
@MAMoreno 3 года назад
I dunno. It seems a little unfair to compare even the original Living Bible or the Good News Bible to The Message, let alone the standard translations. In fact, I feel like the word "paraphrase" is a generous term to employ in some passages. At times, it's more like a totally new literary composition influenced by the Biblical text rather than an idiomatic rendering of that original text.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Sure. Those elements I call commentary or transculturation. “Paraphrase” isn’t a natural category; it’s defined by human use. It’s boundaries are a bit elastic.
@kennychenph
@kennychenph 2 года назад
I used to discount this, but upon actually reading it I was blown away. It got me to actually read and relate more that I normally wouldn't
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
Excellent!
@ju_aych39
@ju_aych39 2 года назад
Same!
@oliverwilson4516
@oliverwilson4516 Год назад
Same! I am in love with it!
@blackleague212
@blackleague212 Месяц назад
“They invent new ways of creating sin”…
@andrewingram4289
@andrewingram4289 28 дней назад
I had that experience reading the NLT
@missastrum
@missastrum 2 года назад
Your remark about "getting out of the Bible runt" that is very true. I had my "The Message" since 2005/2006 and I can't use the translation unless I have another Bible like ESV, NLT, NIV, etc. If I ever find myself standing on a soap box, bolstering the Word I would definitely get the attention using The Message.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
Awesome!
@joseenriqueagutaya131
@joseenriqueagutaya131 3 года назад
Thanks you for this video because I purposely wanted to ask you for your comment on the Message loose paraphrase.Do you agree that the updated Amplified Bible is very much better to read than the Message.I visited a used books store and found a copy of the Message old and new testament and also found a NLT compact edition which is less expensive,I chose the NLT.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
That was the best choice of the three.
@joseenriqueagutaya131
@joseenriqueagutaya131 3 года назад
Thank you Pastor Mark for your response.I still use the Scofield Reference Bible KJV which I bought half the original price because the hard bound has masking tape in the spine and portion of the cover and some notes in the pages in the same used books store where I bought the NLT because I have memorize a lot of verses from it.
@Nienkexplores
@Nienkexplores 2 года назад
So English is not my first language and I'm dyslexic. I have such a hard time reading some of the other translations, but have heard mixed opinions about the Message. Still don't know if I should pick the Message or NIV or something else haha
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
If those are your two options I would read the NIV!
@danieljoshua4352
@danieljoshua4352 Год назад
English is not my first language either. NLT helped me a lot to get into the bible. I highly recommend you to begin with it. Slowly you will catch up and be able to understand NKJV. In the very beginning, i used to have a bible in my mother tongue on one side and my ESV Bible on the other side (this was 10 years back when there were no efficient bible apps, or at least I was not aware of their existence if they did). I used to read a verse in my language and then read the same in my ESV. After a few days, i picked up ESV style and it became easy for me to understand it. However, reading the nlt version saved a lot of time, trust me.
@adeolaadefowora155
@adeolaadefowora155 2 месяца назад
I recommend you pick both NIV as well as the message.
@kell7356
@kell7356 2 года назад
I never read the Bible and wanted to get to know it better while improving my English, so I'm wondering whether I should get The Message or NIV
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
Start with the NIV. Definitely. The Message is a paraphrase. That’s not a bad thing, as I’ve tried to show! But don’t start with it.
@kell7356
@kell7356 2 года назад
@@markwardonwords thank you! I just got my NIV
@yvonnegonzales2973
@yvonnegonzales2973 3 года назад
Thanks for the info. Some critics said the message is a new age? There's other paraphrase & almost paraphrase bibles: the Voice, jb Philips NT, new life ver., Etc
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
I haven't personally seen any evidence that The Message is New Age.
@fnjesusfreak
@fnjesusfreak 2 года назад
Some people think every version that isn't the KJV is New Age.
@Kai-Motorcycle
@Kai-Motorcycle Год назад
Hello,Mark! Good News Translation How about this translation? Compared with the Message version, which one is better? I like reading the Bible, but English is not my first language, which translation version should I choose to study the Bible in English? I hope you can give me an answer, thank you very much for sharing your video.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
I don't know as much about the Good News Translation. I'd recommend the NIV or NLT for you.
@Kai-Motorcycle
@Kai-Motorcycle Год назад
@@markwardonwords I don't know why the message disappears after I reply to the message
@Kai-Motorcycle
@Kai-Motorcycle Год назад
@@markwardonwords Thank you very much Mrak. I used the website to compare and finally I chose the CSB Bible as my Bible for learning English. I like the translation of CSB. Thanks again for your recommendations and videos, many of the videos you make are very helpful for Christians, God bless you.
@Era3662
@Era3662 3 года назад
Found this an excellent explanation! You've got yourself a new subscriber!
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Yay! Thank you!
@AkhonaMbebe
@AkhonaMbebe 11 месяцев назад
I appreciate your explanation, it sheds some light about things I've already put a coffin on. However, I think there's a reason I put coffins on bible translations and has to do with the accuracy of scripture. I think it's important to understand the context of the times the scripture was written in, if you remove that there can be some misunderstanding or confusion. When you said this translation will "shock you back to NASB", it does! I honestly think if someone want an easy to read bible there are better translations out there (NLT anyone?), if that won't do, get a study bible, even better, a study bible with commentary! Be blessed!
@Valentine-du8fx
@Valentine-du8fx Год назад
Definitely helped me out! I was so confused haha. Thank you!
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
Happy to help!
@mickeyneal6374
@mickeyneal6374 Год назад
I think you absolutely nailed it on this video. Although not my main translation at all, I do appreciate The Message in many places. His rendering of the first five verses of 2 Timothy 3 accurately captures our times in no uncertain terms. Thanks for the hard work.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
Glad you enjoyed it!
@christinemerritt974
@christinemerritt974 9 месяцев назад
Now you have peaked my curiosity about second Timothy 3!!! I am going to check it out in my devotional this morning!!
@MyJanvic
@MyJanvic 3 года назад
Sincerely, having a copy of the Catholic/Ecumenical Edition of it, it seems that the "Message" is really a Bible translation in its unique way. It renders everything from the original biblical languages in conversational English. It is a Bible to be read, yes, to be read. Although it is not to be studied, as Mr. Peterson had admitted for a long time, The Message is fit for those who want to see the Word of God in a new perspective. "The Message" can be considered as the Bible of the street because it has presented the original texts in simple, everyday street language.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
It does have genuine value.
@user-ie6we3hq9j
@user-ie6we3hq9j 11 месяцев назад
I really appreciate how you are very impartial. I’ve seen a lot of people try to manipulate their opinion to be the right one based on their feelings and not on facts. Some people get really upset and some people are supper passionate. I always saw it as a study tool too. Cuz there’s some like 1 Cor <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="748">12:28</a>-31 that if you look from message to, let’s say LEB or ESV, the message has kinda got a changed view on what it says. It reads more as a commentary. I can see where the message could be true with this but I feel like it could expand it just a little too much but idk. I’m still searching it out. Finding out what that verse means lead me to your channel. I believe in the 5 fold and spiritual gifts, but it’s hard for me looking at Jesus called to go heal the sick and cast out demons, then supposedly having this verse say, not all of you can do that. It feels like a contradiction. If anyone has any insite, I welcome everything that’s not angry arguing hahah
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 11 месяцев назад
Yes, I feel as if a lot of opposition to The Message-not all-is just not thought through. “And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.” (1 Corinthians 12:28-31 ESV) That's a rich but tough passage. Check out Gordon Fee's commentary on it, perhaps. It's good!
@RedMcc
@RedMcc 2 года назад
Not even close. For folks to see how bad the Message is, do a side by side comparison of Matthew <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="369">6:9</a>-13 between a real translation (word for word) of the ESV and the Message. How the Message addresses this verse is a damnable offense. This is only one example. The Message isnt even a paraphrase much less a translation. ITs not a coincidence that the most heretical places use The Message. There are very few things that I will speak so emphatically, but this is a serious offense. Please use just about any other version OTHER than The Message.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
The Message provokes strong feelings!
@basicforge
@basicforge 2 года назад
The Passion Translation should also be avoided.
@davidsandrock7826
@davidsandrock7826 Год назад
By the English definition of what a bible is, I think it can be debated as to whether the Message fits or not. When the KJV translators said that the ‘meanest translation’ of God’s word is still God’s word, would they have included one like the Message in that statement?
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
I don’t think The Message is “a Bible.” And I wouldn’t apply the KJV translators’ comment about the very meanest translation to The Message as a whole.
@russell13904
@russell13904 Год назад
Helpful. Thanks. I'm curious what you think of the Goldingay/Wright translations ("for everyone", or l think it was published in the US as the Kingdom Bible). I definitely understand the value of speaking to the ploughboy in his own vernacular, which The Message also does. But it can get tiresome. Isaiah <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="605">10:5</a>a "Hey, Assyria, my angry club..." Firstly, what? Secondly, why does every second verse start with "hey?" What's wrong with "Oh" or "Woe unto"? It can start to feel like your grandfather coming in and saying "yo, yo, young people, what's up? Grandpa is down with the lingo, yo!"
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
You're not wrong. ;) There's a place for that, I think. But it does get cloying sometimes.
@lindaloughborough8454
@lindaloughborough8454 2 года назад
I was tempted to get my 52-year son that has a KJB! He doesn't understand his Bible! I thought that he could start on the Message and go back to the KJB! I think that if he could begin to understand with this Message book! Would you say that it would be a start for him to "Get It"". I read the Message and I learned from this book but I went to a NIV, which I love!
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
I'd stick with the NIV first rather than The Message. I can't think of any exception to that, someone to whom I'd give The Message before the NIV. The Message is a Bible study tool for those already familiar with traditional translations.
@harveyquinn3535
@harveyquinn3535 2 года назад
Makes sense to me. Great video man, what Bible do you recommend if I want a very literal translation? I don’t like the KJV due to the added syntax in the Lords Prayer. And can you explain what the “thought for thought” or “meaning for meaning” bibles are?
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
I encourage you to subscribe to my channel! Keep watching. I have a series starting next week, Lord willing, that will help answer your questions. You might also want to watch my INCREDI-NASB video.
@harveyquinn3535
@harveyquinn3535 2 года назад
@@markwardonwords thanks sir I’ll check it out
@RedMcc
@RedMcc 2 года назад
ESV
@cfrost87
@cfrost87 Год назад
NASB, ESV, LSB, NKJV-- those are the more formal translations.
@blackleague212
@blackleague212 Месяц назад
You need to study the Hæbrew and Sanskrit languages. Islam has no such nonsense… you need to speak Arabic to read it. Period. These translations are sinful, the Bible and the lost books are full of rituals, and items of angelic sorcery. “The reasons” Catholics have so many items and rituals that they do. Translating these mannerisms is why American Christianity is useless. “ their sins overflow the ear of G-D therefore he cannot hear your prayers”.
@kdeh21803
@kdeh21803 Год назад
So what is an "ambulance chariot" in II Chron. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="2124">35:24</a> in the Message??
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
Probably a little tongue in cheek; perhaps seeing something in the scholarly literature about what "second chariots" were used for; perhaps trying to pull contemporary concepts into service for help understanding the past.
@timwilkins2008
@timwilkins2008 2 года назад
Thank you for your comments. I enjoy using this alongside my ESV, RSV, NRSV, etc. It helps me think about what the text is possibly trying to convey. I see it like the Living Bible, Good News and other more "free flowing" versions.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
They all have their place.
@samuelrosenbalm
@samuelrosenbalm 2 года назад
I get a bad feeling when I read the RSV.
@davidrossman919
@davidrossman919 8 месяцев назад
Is there a verse by verse version of the message bible? I’m using the message bible as a reference/commentary. I’ve been thinking of typing it out so each verse is on a different line, so I don’t have to guess where verses are. (For my personal use only.) lol
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 8 месяцев назад
I confess I don't know!
@viewermc9128
@viewermc9128 4 месяца назад
Not really. More like verses to verses rather than individual verses itself. If you need a bible like is kinda verse to verse style with no reference and the verses to the side I suggest "The message//REMIX" I do admit, it's pretty small but it will work for you. God bless and good tiding
@reactionswitherin5504
@reactionswitherin5504 2 года назад
Great explanation! The Message can be a study tool to better understand some verses. It’s not my favorite translation but I do refer to it at times.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
Amen. Every line.
@cherylgleason6297
@cherylgleason6297 10 месяцев назад
I bought it so many years back and when it came out it was promoted where I purchased it as a man who wrote it for his child so that child could understand God's word.
@laceymckamy2394
@laceymckamy2394 2 года назад
what do you think is better for me read
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
I'd stick with the NIV or, if you struggle to understand it, the NLT. I wouldn't read The Message as my main Bible.
@joseenriqueagutaya131
@joseenriqueagutaya131 3 года назад
Thank you for your presentation in this video on the Message.I remember the incident I told about my plan to buy the Message but came cross the NLT.I can't help to imagine myself growing my hair again long again,try to drink light beer again and prefering to read the works of Robert Ludlum and even Harold Robbins and listening again to Rolling Stones,The Who or Led Zeppelin you know what I meant?I guess I just leave reading the Message to those want it.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
By all means-don't feel like you have to read The Message. The NLT is better if you're going to use only one of the two. FWIW, I don't listen to any rock music… And I still get some help from The Message on occasion. =)
@joseenriqueagutaya131
@joseenriqueagutaya131 3 года назад
Sorry about mentioning rock music in my comment,its just that I equate the Message to rock music whàt a poor analogy.The Smart mouth college stuck to my mind though😀
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Ha! No problem!
@Buzznee8
@Buzznee8 2 года назад
niv/the message bible was my first bible my parents bought. From there I became an believer and I got an study bible in NLT, and kjv.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
All worth using!
@fnjesusfreak
@fnjesusfreak 2 года назад
Can't say I haven't added scare quotes myself when translating in a more literal sense many years ago (1 Corinthians 8.5-6 - "For even if there are those which are called 'gods' either in heaven or on earth - for there are many of these 'gods' and many 'lords' - but our God is one, who is that Father, from whom all things are, and us in him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom all things are, and us for him.")
@mickeyneal6374
@mickeyneal6374 2 года назад
I have read most translations that you discuss, including the Message, from cover to cover several times. My favorite is probably the ESV with NASB and CSB close behind. But I love the way the Message presents 2 Timothy <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="181">3:1</a>-5. A very pointed description of our culture.
@stoutdog56
@stoutdog56 3 года назад
This video is a good explanation of The Message. I have several reader bibles (NIRV, ESV and NLT) for informal reading enjoyment. I purchased a copy of The Message at a big discount and read a couple NT books and will be reading it as part of my daily devotional this year. As stated, it's a reader bible not a study bible. The goal of The Message is to get people reading and enjoying the Bible again. I like the layout with the verse numbers for each paragraph being placed in the left margin. Surprisingly without them incorporated in the text like most all bibles, they do not interfere with your eyes as you read. I'm surprised by how much I'm enjoying reading this modern translation. Update one week later I'm running into verses that I do not care for Peterson's interpretation. Some of the terms and phrases added and what I am finding about Peterson's beliefs are souring my initial enthusiasm for this work. I will not be recommending it but will keep it for future comparison only.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Excellent!
@basicforge
@basicforge 2 года назад
Many people do not understand that the MSG is not a proper translation. They will read it assuming it is a real Bible. Nobody should be messing around with God's word like this. It will cause people to lose their eternal salvation.
@tucker8071
@tucker8071 Год назад
@@basicforge Do you have some examples? I have read the NIV bible all the way through and I am now reading The Message all the way through. Everything that I read and understood in the NIV, the Message has been aligned with. As for items that I did not understand, The Message helps bring clarity to the NIV. I don't think I will ever memorize scripture from The Message, but it gets me reading the bible as passages and chapters rather than stuck in a verse by verse study of the NIV. If you read the NIV straight through, it is easy to get bogged down in hard to understand passages.
@basicforge
@basicforge Год назад
@@tucker8071 Just have a look at the Lord's prayer in Matt 6 in The Message: Our Father in heaven, Reveal who you are. Set the world right; Do what’s best- as above, so below. Keep us alive with three square meals. Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others. Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil. You’re in charge! You can do anything you want! You’re ablaze in beauty! Yes. Yes. Yes. This is a disaster of 'translation'. If you eliminate the first line, nobody would recognize it for what it is supposed to be. Then, consider the fifth line 'as above, so below'. This is a pagan saying from the occult religions. Stay far away from The Message.
@tucker8071
@tucker8071 Год назад
@@basicforge how is that so different from “on earth as it is in heaven”? You haven’t convinced me yet.
@charlesratcliff2016
@charlesratcliff2016 2 года назад
I spoke to Najay Gupta a well known scholar teaches out of the Message. I use the Message but are paired with a formal translation or NIV. Gupta does the same.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
Really? I'm surprised, I confess! Does he say this anywhere publicly?
@charlesratcliff2016
@charlesratcliff2016 2 года назад
@@markwardonwords Mike Winger video on the Passion Translation.
@charlesratcliff2016
@charlesratcliff2016 2 года назад
@@markwardonwords ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tdyX2eecKEg.html
@tink8391
@tink8391 3 года назад
I read nlt to study on more detail NKJV to memorize and good news bible when I don't understand I pray before to ask for the holy spirit to help us KJV I still have but struggle with
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
I struggle with it, too!
@addictedtojesus922
@addictedtojesus922 3 года назад
Pastor Mike Winger doesn't even put it on the scale. He has a video about Bible versions. I highly recommend it.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Didja watch the video?
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
BTW, I like Mike Winger. Good guy.
@Dilley_G45
@Dilley_G45 3 года назад
Check out "ask the pastor" channel. He explains why he likes the NKJV. I highly recommend his channel. Mike Winger is not bad but he's off on a few things like Christians and alcohol and infant baptism.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
​@@Dilley_G45, I watched his video on the KJV and NKJV. He's a careful and gracious man whose choice to use the NKJV is one I support. I can't say I was persuaded by his reasoning when it comes to New Testament textual criticism, but at least he clearly distinguishes text and translation and is willing and eager to use a contemporary translation of the NT text he prefers. Thanks for the tip!
@MicheMoffatt
@MicheMoffatt 24 дня назад
It’s only recently I first looked at “The Message” as someone preached from this at church, and compared to my NASB the whole meaning of the passage seemed different, and that to me is a concern. Ephesians <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="128">2:8</a>-9 makes it sound like some form of universalism gift we are saved as no mention of by grace through faith - I respect you very much as a scholar, and was keen to hear your thoughts. I wish the message was advertised as a “commentary” rather than a “bible” as many fundamentals are totally lost, and one thing it’s made me do, is get out the BDAG and look at the Greek and when my daughter asked for the message - I may be wrong, but I said no. She is a young teen, and has an NLT - I prefer formal but I like the dynamic for my younger kids for ease of understanding. I can’t imagine eugene Peterson even intended the message to be preached from the pulpit - I’d be interested to know how he would react if he found out this happens in some places. I think a clear understanding of formal equivalency to dynamic to paraphrastic is importsnt - and definitely would help so many. X
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 24 дня назад
I’ve gone a bit back and forth on the labeling of The Message. The people who need rhetoric label probably aren’t the right audience for this paraphrase. :/ But better safe than sorry: it should be called clearly a paraphrase. I really do wonder how many people have been misled by it; those who read the Bible seriously enough to be misled have almost certainly started elsewhere with other translations, and they’ve had guidance from pastors and a tradition.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 24 дня назад
But yes to NLT for a kid and no to The Message. You did right. I did the same thing for my adolescent daughter.
@duckie_king7975
@duckie_king7975 Год назад
I have multiple versions of the bible and the message is literally the same meaning as others only difference is it doesn't talk like Shakespeare wrote it.
@GOLDSMITHEXILE
@GOLDSMITHEXILE 2 года назад
I tend not to get bent out of shape on this these days😀some folk can get very legalistic about "KJV only" etc.....any translation can be dead letter if the reader isnt humbly seeking God. When His spirit lights up a word to you, you know it😆In our home study groups we usually have 4 or 5 different translations at hand and listen to them while studying together, give and take ("oh...my translation puts it thisway...")😀. At the end of the day God could quite as easily speak to someone through a copy of sporting life or the exchange and mart. Its a bit facile to think he could ONLY ever speak through one (ie-my preferred) version and all others are tainted
@SepulvedaBoulevard
@SepulvedaBoulevard 3 месяца назад
Thank you for this thoughtful assessment. Richard Rohr quoted from MSG and it really caught my attention.
@christinemerritt974
@christinemerritt974 Год назад
The Message Bible was the first Bible I was able to read, comprehend, understand, and digest. I could not have had a genuine relationship with God without this WONDERFUL Message Bible.
@MM-jf1me
@MM-jf1me Год назад
That's so wonderful to hear!
@tucker8071
@tucker8071 Год назад
I love this. I think lots of churchy people prefer that all Christians stick to the NKJV/NIV etc. and not touch The Message. In doing so, Christians are reading passages of the NKJV Bible but not understanding what they are reading. What good is it to stick to a more literal translation if the reader doesn't even understand? The beauty of The Message is the ability to read entire chapters in one sitting and to absorb what you read. The way that I see it, is that original readers of the bible got the benefit of understanding the metaphors, time-period references and language tools used in the original text without any paraphrasing required. Reading the NKJV today and a lot of that goes over my head. I simply don't understand. The fact is that God call us to be Christians and not bible scholars (sorry if that hurts your ego). There is a message, THE MESSAGE that God wants to tell the world and stopping new Christians from reading The Message because it is more paraphrastic and uses modern terms is not a good reason to keep people from it. As long as Christians understand that there are more literal translations that provide insight of the original words used in the original text, then I have absolutely no issues with The Message translation.
@FaithfulReasoning
@FaithfulReasoning 9 месяцев назад
Great don't let anyone change that for you, God can find any way to speak to us, I myself have very low reading level and this makes sense to me
@christinemerritt974
@christinemerritt974 9 месяцев назад
I am currently reading the King James every morning (in small portions), but it would have been IMPOSSIBLE without the Message Bible having been my foundation of understanding.
@terrysam1469
@terrysam1469 4 месяца назад
The Message is not God's Word. It's heresy. I'd suggest you use NLT or NIV. You don't want to be in a corrupted God's Word.
@leobaker291
@leobaker291 2 года назад
I'll have to get one of these bible
@homespunhomefragrance5659
@homespunhomefragrance5659 Год назад
I equate The Message to a devotional book. It’s a tool to be used alongside the Bible for better understanding.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
I don’t disagree!
@michaelkelleypoetry
@michaelkelleypoetry 3 года назад
Wow, I have to be honest, I've never really considered The Message, mainly because it's the butt of a lot of jokes (i.e., Tim Hawkins' Rice Krispies recipe. lol.) But you actually gave me a new way of looking at The Message. I actually liked a lot of the renderings you quoted and agree that it seems to be helpful to those already familar with traditional wording. I'll have to add it to my Logos template to compare translations.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
I can’t honestly say I use it a ton. But I do check it for precisely The reason I mention: it might take me out of my rut.
@yukiyama370
@yukiyama370 3 года назад
@@markwardonwords I DONT READ THE MESSAGE BOOK YET,SO I STILL DONT KNOW IF IT IS A REAL BIBLE OR NOT..BUT IF IT HAS ALL THE SCRIPTURES OF OLD AND THE NEW TESTAMENTS AND THE AUTHOR TRANSLATED ALL THE VERSES AND CONTEXTS OF THE BIBLE IN HIS OWN WAY OF INTERPRETATION THAT FOR HIM WOULD HELP OUR NEW GENERATION TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE EASILY,WELL ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS TO STUDY WELL IF WHAT THE MESSAGE SAYING IS REALLY TRUE BASE ON THE OTHER VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE,I MEAN IT WONT HAVE ANY CONTRADICTION FROM THE TRUTH THAT IS REALLY SECRETLY WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE THAT ONLY THOSE TRUE MESSENGERS OF GOD CAN UNDERSTAND AND CAN PREACH....I HAVE ONE VERSE FROM THE MESSAGE THAT'S I REALLY APPRECIATED...2 JOHN 1:7... BCOZ THIS IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT... THERE'S A LOT OF PROOF FROM THE BIBLE LIKE ACT 2:22/TIMOTHY 2:5/SANTIAGO 5:6./JOHN 1:18 /JOHN 8:40 👉AND FOR HAVING FLESH AND BONES THAT ONLY PROVED CHRIST IS A HUMAN BEING COZ GOD IS SPIRIT AND SPIRITS DOESNT HAVE BONES ,FLESH AND EVEN BLOOD..LUKE 24:38 -39...✌️❤️
@stephengilbreath840
@stephengilbreath840 3 года назад
Always appreciate your videos brother. God bless you
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Many thanks!
@XYGamingRemedyG
@XYGamingRemedyG 2 года назад
IDK, fam. I like the paraphrase reading, but some of it, like the Lord's Prayer, I thought was really REALLY weird...
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
And as long as you know it's a paraphrase, a commentary, you're ok!
@XYGamingRemedyG
@XYGamingRemedyG 2 года назад
@@markwardonwords that's what I felt like. Thanks.
@P_Ezi
@P_Ezi Год назад
To be fair, it looks like the MSG was revised in 2018. The revision is described as an update, but this verse looks quite different in the newer version: PS <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a> MSG (2002) How well God must like you - you don't hang out at Sin Saloon, you don't slink along Dead-End Road, you don't go to Smart-Mouth College. Many sites, including the official message site, now show this verse as: PS <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a> MSG (2018) How well God must like you- you don’t walk in the ruts of those blind-as-bats, you don’t stand with the good-for-nothings, you don’t take your seat among the know-it-alls. These changes at least make the phrases within this verse more recognizable when compared to more careful translations.
@treetoplake
@treetoplake 5 месяцев назад
Nice post thanks. Helps me see why I’m surprised and questioning whilst reading the Message. I got the Message for Christmas and am up to Kings already. I’m familiar with the NKJV having read through many times. You here explain the issue I thought I’d noticed clearly. Thank you. PS: This one made me laugh out loud. 2Kjngs<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="730">12:10</a>. ‘The young turks..’ referring to Rehoboam’s young advisors who recommended tyranny rather than freedom and respect. The Shenanigans of certain people groups haven’t gone unnoticed over the centuries.
@adeolaadefowora155
@adeolaadefowora155 2 месяца назад
I like The Message Bible a lot! It helped me understand so so clear aspects of the Bible. Having said that I would recommend you use it with one of favourite versions. I use it along with NKJV and NLT.
@stephenyoung8069
@stephenyoung8069 Год назад
After reading John Ch 1 and Romans side by side in ESV and The Message, I am unable to take it as a serious translation. It is fine as the preachings of a youth pastor, but the silliness of the rural phrases miss the mark of the underlining meaning too often.
@viz8746
@viz8746 6 месяцев назад
I clicked on this in the Biblegateway dropdown box by accident (?) instead of Mounce Reverse Interlinear (I was in Romans 1) - it blew me away! Very different from Contemporary English and Easy to Read Version, but very enjoyable and rewarding as well. The language is direct and intelligible, and it’s very very well written indeed! Approved! 👍👍👍
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 6 месяцев назад
Interesting! Need to check this out.
@adeolaadefowora155
@adeolaadefowora155 2 месяца назад
I like The Message Bible a lot! It helps me to understand aspects of the Bible that are not so clear. Having said that I recommend you use it along with your favourite Bible versions. I use it along with the NKJV and NLT.
@addictedtojesus922
@addictedtojesus922 3 года назад
If you find the Bible complicated, get the Life Application Study Bible in the NIV or the NLT.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Kindly interact with my arguments, please!
@Dude4Christ85
@Dude4Christ85 3 года назад
I was thrilled to see that you made a video about The Message-not because I agree with or recommend this paraphrase, but because it really is-in its own unique way-in a genre all on its own in the Bible world. I think you did an excellent job of breaking down and defining what The Message actually is, from a very well-informed and honest standpoint. For me, the most controversial rendering in The Message by far is the way Eugene Peterson chose to render part of The Lord’s Prayer in Matthew: “Our Father in heaven, Reveal who you are. Set the world right; Do what’s best- as above, so below.” That phrase “As above, so below” is generally well known as an occult phrase and I just can’t fathom why Eugene chose to use this very specific phrase in his rendering. On the flip side-I can’t help but absolutely admire the way he rendered this portion from Colossians 1: “He was supreme in the beginning and-leading the resurrection parade-he is supreme in the end. From beginning to end he’s there, towering far above everything, everyone. So spacious is he, so roomy, that everything of God finds its proper place in him without crowding. Not only that, but all the broken and dislocated pieces of the universe-people and things, animals and atoms-get properly fixed and fit together in vibrant harmonies, all because of his death, his blood that poured down from the cross.”
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Wow-that’s a great selection. Can’t explain his use of that phrase myself, only suggest the charitable interpretation I would take: the fact is that I am a Christian who has lived in Christian communities my whole life. I didn’t know that occult phrase!
@MM-jf1me
@MM-jf1me Год назад
I've never heard of the phrase "as above, so below" being related to the occult; it rings of Christianity to my Christian ears. This could easily be something that occult practitioners "borrowed" from the church to add legitimacy to whatever they're doing -- I've seen people using upside down crosses as symbols of "evil" or whatever in certain media or fashion styles and -- though I wouldn't display a cross upside down myself -- knowing what others do doesn't detract from the original religious symbol in my eyes.
@adeolaadefowora155
@adeolaadefowora155 2 месяца назад
Wow! Indeed, I love the Colossians 1 bit!
@hightide1500
@hightide1500 10 месяцев назад
Its a coffee table Bible. Great as a conversation starter…
@vishunte5276
@vishunte5276 2 года назад
When I first read it, I was very taken back. It is very well written. I love reading The Message. I gifted this to few friends.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
I had a similar experience, years ago!
@adeolaadefowora155
@adeolaadefowora155 2 месяца назад
Me too!
@discoverwitherin-vc1gc
@discoverwitherin-vc1gc Год назад
I think it is okay for a mature Christian to use. If I had a friend who had recently become a Christian and I were to get them a Bible, I would go for a word-for-word translation with modern terminology such as a NKJV or a phrase-for-phrase translation such as the NIV. I think it is important for a new Christian to get a firm grasp of the foundation of scripture. I view The Message kind of like a devotional. It can be used alongside a Bible, but I wouldn’t use it as my main Bible. I have an NIV/Message cross-reference Bible and love being able to read both alongside. Sometimes The Message will bring something out that I never thought of before.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
Pretty much my perspective, too!
@carsongriffin207
@carsongriffin207 2 года назад
For what it is worth, I have met Eugene Peterson's son Eric. He pastors a church in Spokane, WA. He spoke of his dad as being a closeted progressive (e.g., believed practicing homosexuality was consistent with Christianity, the Bible is not infallible, and we need to always be evolving in our theology). He said his dad's agent and publishers intentionally downplayed his heterodoxy so he would be better accepted by evangelicals.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
I read the recent biography of Peterson, and I came to the same conclusions. I was disappointed and even discouraged. I honestly don't believe that changes anything I said in the video (unless I'm forgetting something positive I said about Peterson's theology). The Message is put out by an evangelical publisher, and I still regard it as useful. Remember: tons of the Bible-the vast majority of it-isn't talking about homosexuality, biblical infallibility, and the progressive evolution of theology. Any random passage in Jeremiah or Luke that you might turn to in The Message isn't likely to be addressing those topics. But I wouldn't look to The Message as an authority for doctrine or for preaching even if Peterson *were* fully orthodox and evangelical.
@BanazirGalpsi1968
@BanazirGalpsi1968 Год назад
It's like the o.g. living before they actually translated one under that name. I think of it more of a comment/ paraphrase.
@P_Ezi
@P_Ezi Год назад
The phrase "smart mouth college" is not a paraphrase. It is more of a stream-of-consciousness free flow association with a functional similarity of a paraphrase of an inspired phrase.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
Sure! I don’t disagree.
@beyourself9890
@beyourself9890 3 года назад
I think you outlook on the msg is spot on it’s just another way to look at it but paired with the Bible it can assist people who are struggling to understand a verse and let’s not forget it the Holy Spirit who guide us and teaches us so even if it was meant for bad which I don’t believe it was God could use for good.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Right!
@JustMeUnderDog
@JustMeUnderDog 4 месяца назад
Maybe a half dozen times when literal translations fail the thought, I think check the message Bible. It fails more! I haven't read the whole thing yet, but I did attend for a short time a church that the pastor and most the congregation used the message Bible & the GNT. I attended their Bible study too. There were doctrinal issues and it seemed evident why. I read all translations. It causes Bible study when it's odd or different in rendering.
@adamburroughs8374
@adamburroughs8374 5 месяцев назад
Hey Mark, thank you for all your content. I stumbled across your channel several months ago-and with the videos I’ve watched I can tell you put serious thought and effort into these videos. I just ran across a video looking more into the message, published 15 years ago, of Eugene Peterson commenting briefly on his idea of “studying” vs “reading” the Bible of which you also comment on here in this video. Link: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mY7_idxEkb4.htmlsi=NwfJTnb0e7jskLJz Thanks again for all your content and the work you are doing here and over at Logos. Have a blessed day!
@mikerobertson4041
@mikerobertson4041 15 дней назад
I had a copy of The Message, but I have no idea where it is now. I try to stay away from paraphrases, and The Message is most definitely a paraphrase.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 15 дней назад
No pressure, brother. Feel free not to use it, truly!
@PicklesFiona
@PicklesFiona 3 года назад
My husband hates to read. It’s really difficult for him to pull out subtle meanings and nuances. Do you think the message would appeal to someone like that?
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Yes, I do. Though I’d send him to the New International Version first-or, if that’s too difficult, to the New Living Translation. If he’s not reading the Bible at all (I take it?), The Message is not the place to start. After he’s been through the NLT and NIV a time or two each, The Message could be helpful.
@robg_
@robg_ Год назад
I had a copy as well as did my mother of the MSB that I had for many years but no real avenues to research it but later the introduction of the internet I did my research regarding the MSB and in most cases their was not much good said about it and many said it was heresy, well that did it for me so both copies went in the bin. I later on felt that I was going to receive the raft of God for doing that now watching your views on the MSB it seems to have some good content. I did asked God's forgiveness after I did it as the MSB did talk about the whole bible but hearing that it was heresy I could not have it in the house. Anyway I read from KJV, ESV, NIV, NKJV (ESV main) it seemed the MSB was not acceptable. Maybe the 2 copies that I binned might fall in the hands of non believers and at least introduce them to Jesus, we know God can use anything for his Glory!
@sanseucbreathphase1190
@sanseucbreathphase1190 2 года назад
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="53">0:53</a> To me it doesn’t matter what the words are, just that the storyline and worldbuilding are conveyed well enough. So it’s a Bible to me. To be honest, translating something literally / word-for-word (like most of ESV seems to) sounds like a bad translation, like you just looked up the meaning of a Hebrew word and pasted it in.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
I get that. But I think the ESV has a balance of formal-to-functional very similar to that of the KJV, and I think the KJV has proven its utility. I'm not so concerned to push people away from any given major modern evangelical English Bible translation as to make sure they know they have the Christian freedom to read any of them-and to help them read them with understanding.
@sanseucbreathphase1190
@sanseucbreathphase1190 2 года назад
@@markwardonwords I’m not even a christian
@elingeniero2000
@elingeniero2000 2 года назад
Yeah but no it routinely puts the author's interpretation in front and risks teaching heresy. I would argue it gets several metaphors wrong. I was teaching Sunday school to 10-12 yo then someone started reading from it. I was instantly confused and got alarm bells (I had heard of the message) I guessed right. The danger is that it poses as a Bible not a Bible study so you risk taking all the errors as athoritative. And yes as a Catholic I went to John 6 and it tells you how the author interpreted it and not what the chapter actually says.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
I think you are perfectly right to say that The Message 1) puts the author's interpretation in front, 2) risks heresy, and 3) gets many metaphors wrong. I think you're right to say that 4) the danger is that The Message poses as a Bible. But for people who understand these dangers, even minimally, I think we're okay. If they can get at least a basic grasp of the difference between a paraphrase and a translation, I think they can get value out of The Message. If they can't-and I think kids probably can't-then they shouldn't use it. I myself don't use it much. I just hate to see it dumped on so vitriolically. =| (Not that you did that. Your points are valid, as I have said.)
@DaneKristjan
@DaneKristjan 3 года назад
οὐαί! μή φλυάρει ὦ Μάρκε! ὁ ἀνόητος μόνος πιστεύει ὅτι ταῦτα εἰσιν ἅγιας γράφας! Message αἵρεσῆς ἐστι, οὐχί όρθωδόξης έστι!
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
The Message is not heresy unless people treat it like a Bible. Those few I'm aware of who do this I do not defend.
@thethrashpanda
@thethrashpanda 2 года назад
NASB is such a good translation.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
Amen!
@truthcrusade8371
@truthcrusade8371 Год назад
Look up Hank Hanegraff's (The Bible Answer Man) "Eugene Peterson, Same Sex Issues, Q&A" and Albert Mohler's "The Agonizing Ordeal Of Eugene Peterson - You Might Be Next". And then ask yourself if you are being faithful to Christ.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
I am familiar with Peterson's views on this topic. I have read his recent biography. I was alarmed by his views on human sexuality. But I also read a book of his about Bible translation-and it contained many excellent insights. This does not change my evaluation of The Message. I'm not reading it as a Bible but as a paraphrase. I'm not urging others to read it; I'm asking them not to condemn fellow Christians for doing so.
@jrpeet
@jrpeet 3 года назад
You could put the finest 'Corinthian leather' around toilet paper and it's still toilet paper.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
I disagree!
@jrpeet
@jrpeet 3 года назад
@@markwardonwords I used hyperbole. Still friends!
@jrpeet
@jrpeet 3 года назад
@@markwardonwords I have (I suppose this is personal), a low view of single author paraphrases
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Lol! ;)
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
I think most people are more afraid of what the Message might do to someone else than open to what it might do for them-and the place to start is understanding that it is indeed a single-author paraphrase.
@seekingthekingdomfirst
@seekingthekingdomfirst 10 месяцев назад
You made some good points about The Message, such as, "Maybe it's not a Bible, but it's not a Quran either or a copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People" and "You'll likely want to disagree as I have with peterson's exegetical or theological judgments in The Message", along with, "It's not a good foundation to build your theology on. I've got several significant differences with Peterson over theology" and "The Message contains a lot of Bible but it isn't the Bible". But you didn't touch on one of the most important aspects: it contains a lot of new age language and implications in it.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 10 месяцев назад
Peterson had his problems, but New Age? Got some examples? I'm open to hearing.
@seekingthekingdomfirst
@seekingthekingdomfirst 10 месяцев назад
@@markwardonwords been a long long time since I cracked open my books on new age and studied things out. Gimme a few days and I'll get back to ya! By the way, I'm not saying it isn't at times useful for people to read. I am saying though that people need to take care when it comes to paraphrases, as a person's personal beliefs can get mixed in and that's when the Bible becomes extra-biblical. (I've been writing 2 books on extra-biblical/unbiblical discipling methods, talking about this exact sort of thing of how people's personal ideas get thrown into the mix and before you know it, new doctrines or philosophies are created)
@KildaltonBTS
@KildaltonBTS 5 месяцев назад
I’m surprised you didn’t address The Message rendering of 1 Corinthian <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="369">6:9</a>. It reads like it was translated by Al Gore.
@user-dh2kn1qc6y
@user-dh2kn1qc6y 2 года назад
I got a message Bible for my non believing friend only because I knew that there was an undercurrent of cynicism (with people) in the version that my friend would understand LOL
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
I pray your friend sees the light.
@carolinem1698
@carolinem1698 Год назад
Bravo!
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
Many thanks!
@Btgclothing
@Btgclothing 2 года назад
Justifying contradictions and hersey 🙄
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
Didja watch the video, my friend?
@Btgclothing
@Btgclothing 2 года назад
I did you clearly justify this filth. And say it is a good tool to people who basically can't understand other simple authentic truthful translations. There is no justification for heresy and blasphemy. The message doesn't condemn sin and openly accepts and justifies sin. The message will never be a good or useful tool
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
I understand not only good translations but the Hebrew and Greek, and I still find insight in The Message. I encourage you to consider why someone as theologically conservative as myself would use and recommend such a tool (despite a few disagreements, I’m sure). Humbly consider that you may be wrong.
@Btgclothing
@Btgclothing 2 года назад
I'm not speaking out of spite or anger but you are terribly wrong sir. You are promoting the use of a blasphemous book to Christians as something useful. The only thing useful about that book is to warn Christians of its existence and to be biblically discerning against false teachers and their books, especially a book being passed off as an alternative to the true Bible. And despite what it may say in its forward, people like Bill heretical Johnson promote it as the true source . Where is your discernment? Promoting unbiblical, blasphemous books is a terrible thing to be doing. I hope you well but promoting this is absolutely something scripture warms us about.
@lilwarriormckamy6676
@lilwarriormckamy6676 3 года назад
I read the message bible
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
I have some videos about it. I appreciate what it’s trying to do.
@ElizaHamilton1780
@ElizaHamilton1780 3 месяца назад
…”sin saloon”? That’s not even a thing in 2024. If people want a readable Bible, why not read the “Immerse” Bible series? It’s the NLT version of the Bible, divvied into parts, with chapter and verse markings taken out.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 месяца назад
I tend to agree that the Immerse NLT is more useful than The Message.
@bradleymiller437
@bradleymiller437 2 года назад
Psalm <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a>"How happy is the one who does not walk in the advice of the wicked or stand in the pathway with sinners or sit in the company of mockers!" How can ANYONE support Eugene's substitute as Biblical?! Clearly he graduated valedictorian in his Ph.D. at Smart-Mouth College.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
Didja watch the video, friend? =)
@bradleymiller437
@bradleymiller437 Год назад
@@markwardonwords no, I just go around shooting my mouth off without being informed first because I like looking stupid. 😕
@egesaivan3205
@egesaivan3205 10 месяцев назад
This bible is helpful for modern day English readers though does not sound original. And if this is the first bible a person has been exposed to, it would excite his to think that this is all the word of God and the bible is all about, it could a risk however since the individual might end up disregarding bibles that carry original text because there some verses skipped and not listed in this bible as it it is with other translations before it. Also it looks like there are some verses translated out of personal assumptions and bias or wishes and this kills originality which totally changes meaning just an example of Matthew chapters 6 and 17.. I think some things need to be revisited in this translation and the message shouldn't be taken as the real bible but as a book to try and understand some hard bible verses. The readers should have it with other original versions before it. It can be a tool of reference since it sounds complementary..
@christopherwalsh3101
@christopherwalsh3101 3 года назад
People do not read the bible. And reading the same psalms and same verses in the gospels, is not reading the bible. the Message makes it so easy to read through the old testament, and knowing the story and the plot, makes reading other translations easier, cause now im reading the same thing with slightly different wording. The message also has an audio version, and all the other translations do not. The bible is a technology. Eugene H Peterson help accelerate this technology. CSB( the fancy new translation) still wont publish an audioversion with a nice voice. they have an olds man voice with classical music in the background, not very sexy for bible listening. In the gospels, Jesus met people where they were. He used the low culture of the sick and poor to deliver the kingdom. Then the religious gate keepers, the pharisees got made, Because the Jesus wasn't polished, wasn't high and mighty and surrounded himself with normal people, not the religious elite. The Message is a translation to meet people were they are.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
There are a lot of claims here… I'm very sympathetic to the "not high and mighty" argument. I've said that Elizabethan language adds an unnecessary at best, confusing and grandiloquent veneer at worst onto the text. But then not all the Bible is equally accessible. Some of the poetry is literarily demanding. I'm all for making it more accessible-as long as a distinction is maintained between what God said and what we say he said.
@sprenzy7936
@sprenzy7936 Год назад
the purpose of the message is to rewrite the bible in a way that it's readable to the modern generation. becasue for some reason people dont really understand niv or nlt sometimes it's worded eloquently but most of the time it's just flamboyant that tries to be fancy and use phrases that no one really uses like "blob of wax' sometimes you dont need to change it like i say to god my rock but he rewrites as sometimes i ask god, my rock solid god which comes off as so cheesy and just rephrased for the sake of rephrasing it and it uses words or idioms that no one uses.i mean sometimes i dont even understand the idioms or the words, how is it more readable than niv or nlt? like scour your insidess as opposed to clean the inside of the cup and dish. or like you're like manicured grave plots i mean like wtf does that actually mean? i wish the message is concise with it's eloquent clear conciese speech becasue sometimes the msg's wording is impeccable
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
Some good thoughts.
@truthcrusade8371
@truthcrusade8371 Год назад
"In The Message, Peterson's best-selling paraphrase of the Bible, he avoided dealing with same-sex behaviors or relationships directly, even when addressing texts like Romans <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="86">1:26</a>-27 or 1 Corinthians <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="309">5:9</a>-13, where he translates same-sex behaviors simply as promiscuity in general." Albert Mohler's The Agonizing Ordeal Of Eugene Peterson - You Might Be Next
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
I agree. This does not change my willingness to use The Message as a commentary or parphrase.
@j.woodbury412
@j.woodbury412 Год назад
The verse you mention where Jesus God called the people of Israel "Sodom" is a lot like when Jesus rebuked Peter and called him Satan.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
Right-excellent parallel!
@j.woodbury412
@j.woodbury412 Год назад
@@markwardonwords Thanks. I enjoy your videos.
@truthcrusade8371
@truthcrusade8371 Год назад
Compare side by side 1 Cor 5 MSG to ESV/NIV, etc. Clear Firm Commands suddenly become suggestions ("I tell you what I *WOULD* do") when in reality Paul uses the most commanding, judgemental, incisive conceivable language. There are significant changes in the attitude, tone, and even clear instructions, in addition to bizarre made-up additions that stretch the original intended meaning of the text to the point it is unrecognizable to anyone familiar with what the bible actually teaches in the original languages and other translations. On the positive side, the Message is not as bad as the JW Bible "translation". Anyone who recommends the MSG as a "Bible" does the reader a profound disservice at best and leads him to error at worst, as well as bringing more confusion and division to those unfamiliar or prone to misunderstand God's word.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
Please interact with the arguments made in the video, my friend.
@truthcrusade8371
@truthcrusade8371 Год назад
@@markwardonwords Are you aware that Eugene Peterson thought homosexuality is not a sin and endorsed the view that hell is a myth?
@truthcrusade8371
@truthcrusade8371 Год назад
"In The Message, Peterson's best-selling paraphrase of the Bible, he avoided dealing with same-sex behaviors or relationships directly, even when addressing texts like Romans 1:26-27 or 1 Corinthians 5:9-13, where he translates same-sex behaviors simply as promiscuity in general." Albert Mohler's The Agonizing Ordeal Of Eugene Peterson - You Might Be Next
@TrustNJesusChrist
@TrustNJesusChrist 4 месяца назад
So it looks like ANYONE can now translate THEIR OWN Bible now? It is actually getting absurd. I actually read a bit of this Bible in 1 John regarding the antichrist spirit of false teachings. It is so watered down, it honestly feels like some random author just wrote it for themselves. I respect God's Word too much to say it is OKAY to keep making revisions and translations so "more people can understand it better". How many translations do we have? I think we had enough translations decades ago. At this point it is getting to the point where I don't think God is happy.
@floritabougie6261
@floritabougie6261 Год назад
If it brings people to Christ. That's all it matters. My favorite is the NKJ. I also own the Message.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords Год назад
Both are useful for different purposes.
@gracelatour3441
@gracelatour3441 3 года назад
It does NOT count as a bible - it is not based on translations nor was it put together by scholars who have searched each scripture for context, meaning, etc., To get people reading it is to set people on the wrong course and understanding of God - without the proper understanding of God, nothing has a true, proper, or theological understanding
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
You’re mostly right! =) I’d shade a few things a little differently, as the video shows.
@gracelatour3441
@gracelatour3441 3 года назад
@@markwardonwords , that's the problem - things are always 'shaded' rather than being straightforward , and too often they are deceptive as well
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Friend, I think you'll see what I mean if you watch the video!
@gracelatour3441
@gracelatour3441 3 года назад
@@markwardonwords I did - there is no neutrality with God and taking God's words and changing them to mean something easier to understand does not accurately reflect what God said or meant - it's a watered down version at the very least and misleading as well -= we would do well to not attempt to change what Holy Scripture is, or intended to be -
@billytaglis3586
@billytaglis3586 3 года назад
The Message Bible is not The Holy Bible it just mixes scripture with some screwball theology and bad translations.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Didja watch the video?
@rob1978
@rob1978 3 месяца назад
I have a Message. When I read it, i am usually shocked and immediately grab a legitimate Bible to find what the real translation says. So the Message certainly has encouraged me to study the Bible.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 месяца назад
Ha! I'll take it.
@ivoryvr
@ivoryvr 4 месяца назад
For me, the message is a wonderful companion but I don't consider it a Translation. And Eugene Peterson didn't even inted it to really be one. Calling it a bible is fair but I'd argue that while it's a bible, it's not an official translation. But I do agree, that I wouldn't reccomend it to new christians as their first bible. Grab a NIV, a KJV, or NRSV if you lean catholic and keeping a copy of The Message for a reference or companion I think is perfectly fine.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 4 месяца назад
@shonuffshonuff9581
@shonuffshonuff9581 2 года назад
I stay away from the message. It’s made for Christian’s that want to be lazy and not study the word. Also compare the Lord’s Prayer in the message to that of the NKJV. It’s almost completely different
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
Can't say I agree, friend! I encourage you to interact with what I said in the video!
@TheValentastephen
@TheValentastephen 3 года назад
I won’t lie. I like the MSG. It’s nice to read when I don’t want to be super involved in the text. It’s relaxing. And I think it’s a good tool for people, who are new to the faith, to lead them to the more formal text and study it.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
I tend to think the order ought to go in the opposite direction, but God can use whatever tool he wants to lead people!
@parkerbarefoot4255
@parkerbarefoot4255 3 года назад
I don't consider it a Bible, but I do like it
@christinemerritt974
@christinemerritt974 Год назад
I love it so much too❤❤❤ It’s very comfortable and it easily delivers a Message, which is the whole point. Anyone and everyone can understand this, which is how it should be.
@greglindstrom2733
@greglindstrom2733 2 года назад
Isaiah <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="3135">52:15</a> so shall he startle many nations kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which has not been told them they shall see, and that which they have not heard they shall understand. Leviticus <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1031">17:11</a> For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that make an atonement for the soul. We couldn't see the extent of "IT IS FINISHED" the earth quaked the rock split at the foot of the Cross, Yeshua's blood was released by the Roman soldier who pierced his side. While Six hundred years earlier The Ark of the Covenant was moved.. Solomon prepared for its hiding and Jeremiah moved it precisely under the cross yet future! GOLGOTHA. THE WITNESS OF THE BLOOD IN THE STARS.. REVELATION <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="737">12:17</a> And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Yeshua. The Rabbi's keep the tablets of stone and His blood (testimony) found on the mercy seat! I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourn for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. ENMITY exists now the solution is the Fathers witness! 1 John <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="308">5:8</a> And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believe on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believe not God hath made him a liar; because he believe not the record that God gave of his Son. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hnxmoF0UZhc.html Rabbi Chaim Richman ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qAFtormiU_0.html 3 minutes ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CsjusN6VVko.html 56 minutes For it is by His grace we are rescued, through faith; and this is not of yourselves, but it is the gift of Elohim. (when opened). 9. Not of works, or else anyone glory (in themselves). 10. For we are His creation who are created in Y'shua the Mashiyach for good works which Elohim has before prepared for us to walk in. 11. Wherefore be mindful that you formerly were carnal Gentiles; and you were called the uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision of which is the work of the hands in the flesh. 12. And you were, at that time, without the Mashiyach; and were aliens from the Devarim of Israel; and strangers to the covenant of the promise; and were without hope and without Elohim in the world. 13. But now, by Y'shua the Mashiyach, you who before were afar off, have been brought near by the Blood of the Mashiyach. 14. He is Himself our peace, who has made the two (become) ONE
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
Does this have something to do with my video, friend?
@greglindstrom2733
@greglindstrom2733 2 года назад
@@markwardonwords No it's an FYI
@fireflames3639
@fireflames3639 2 года назад
No, plain and simple.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
Please interact with the arguments in the video, friend.
@blackleague212
@blackleague212 Месяц назад
No. This is nothing. Honestly I had to look up a scripture which is rare… and I used the internet to do it which is also so rare… And when the internet showed me this nonsense as the top search result I felt a wave of evil come over me. This is NOT the Bible! Omg! It should not come up in the search! It’s horrible, the way he rambles on and tries to make the people into “characters “ is offensive. He should know the scripture on adding words to the Bible. He sealed his F A T E. Amen
@samuelrosenbalm
@samuelrosenbalm 2 года назад
I think you went a little out there on this one, Mark. I know it's been a couple of years, so maybe you changed your opinion. A born again Christian has no place reading The Message. It compromises on homosexuality, is overtly egalitarian, and utterly butchers the Lord's Prayer. I am a subscriber and I like your videos, but this is an issue on which I must strongly disagree. I think it's every bit as bad as people say. I do think The Message is the perfect Bible for the PCUSA - Peterson's own denomination. Biblical Christians, however, would do well to steer clear.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
I still haven't changed my mind. =) But I will say that I read Eugene Peterson's biography and lost significant amounts of respect for the man. I will also say that I certainly do NOT insist that anyone read The Message. But I request that those of us who do find some use in it be permitted to keep our conservative credentials!
@samuelrosenbalm
@samuelrosenbalm 2 года назад
@@markwardonwords Far be it from me to ever cast doubt on your credentials, Mark. You are doing great work. ;)
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
;)
@NormanF62
@NormanF62 Год назад
A paraphrase has its uses. Peterson himself admits the Message isn’t a substitute for Bible study. What it can do is clear the tangled underbrush of literal translation and let you see what’s really bring said. And that will help you appreciate the Bible even more!
@DaneKristjan
@DaneKristjan 3 года назад
This basically undid any good you did.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
It’s good to know you thought I’d done some good! It must not have been much, though, because it sure was easy to undo! ;) I’ll just have to make more videos to make up for zeroing out...
@Ylemonade
@Ylemonade 3 года назад
Wow....I mean...he gave an honest straight forward review of a version of the Bible and somehow....undid good elsewhere. It isn't a mandate on what you should do. It is a review. Letting people interested know what he thinks of it what might be useful or not. You can't really say he did good or he didn't do good. He did a review. That's all it is. Anything else taken away from it is done by you so take some responsibility for that. If you have an issue you deal with it.
@DaneKristjan
@DaneKristjan 3 года назад
@@Ylemonade thank you for your valuable insight and aid
@johnwoodruff1878
@johnwoodruff1878 2 года назад
The message is Jeff the parapherph why don’t you just say that. I have a message and I don’t recommend it to anybody. I don’t recommend paraphrase .
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
Didja watch the video, my friend?
@johnwoodruff1878
@johnwoodruff1878 2 года назад
@@markwardonwords I did watch it. I will watch it again. Just to make sure that I understand what you were saying.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 2 года назад
@@johnwoodruff1878 I do my best to respond to all comments that are not abusive-which, thankfully, is most! But I have to ask that commenters engage with things I actually said! Thank you!
@johnwoodruff1878
@johnwoodruff1878 2 года назад
@@markwardonwords I Watched it again. When you sad that the message is both a Bible and a prayer phrase but it’s not a Bible. So, you’re saying it’s both from what I understand? I still wouldn’t recommend it. I do agree, that reading the Bible is a sacrament. It is a life blood of a Christian. What I mean by that, is, this is how God speaks to us through his word. How we translate it and how we treat God‘s word is extremely important. Do we love God‘s word? I’ve been reading Psalms 119 verses 33 through 40. I understand what this song is asking of God and that it better burn up all my own heart. And I think it’s a big problem with the church. I am grateful for your effort and getting the people of God to read the word of God. If we want to know God we must read his word. You must pray and meditate upon the word of God. Thank you.
@one4320
@one4320 10 месяцев назад
Good video. Imho we're Christians not biblical scholars, too much intellectual vanity is haughty and prideful - not good.
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 10 месяцев назад
Agreed!
@duckie_king7975
@duckie_king7975 Год назад
Yall are focused too much on the words instead of the meaning itself which is the important part
@ferion11
@ferion11 3 года назад
It's one of the modern Targums :)
@markwardonwords
@markwardonwords 3 года назад
Yeah, there’s definitely that strain in it.
Далее
Bono & Eugene Peterson | THE PSALMS
21:43
Просмотров 1,7 млн
Why Dumb Down the Bible? 12 Objections to Authorized
24:49
Я тоже так могу
00:12
Просмотров 779 тыс.
PORTAL SPAMMER🤬🤬🤬| Doge Gaming
00:19
Просмотров 1,7 млн
"Study" Doesn't Mean What You Think It Does
16:07
Просмотров 10 тыс.
Picking apart a (Misleading) KJV-Only Meme
16:56
Просмотров 8 тыс.
The Dangers of KJV-Onlyism | Dr. Mark Ward
22:14
Просмотров 3,9 тыс.
5 Translations Of The Bible You Should Avoid
51:35
Просмотров 365 тыс.
Why Bible Typography Matters
47:41
Просмотров 28 тыс.
An Error in the King James Version
13:33
Просмотров 24 тыс.
Eugene Peterson Gospel Quartet 1
36:19
Просмотров 16 тыс.