As a nurse for 45 years I take great offense to his lie that babies are executed by health care providers. To all the MAGA people...ask your loved ones that are nurses and doctors if they have executed any babies. This is ridiculous. His ignorance knows no bounds. I know that the good people of the United States will reject him in November.
I agree as a registered nurse who had 2 children of my own. I have never met a GYN/OB physician that would execute a live baby or even a viable birth - Pro life people have done our country a great disservice with the rhetoric that Health care people and hospitals are doing that to patients
Thanks for your comment. We nurses need to expose this agriegeous lie from Trump. We can also pray that he will be defeated in November. He has promulgated a great haze of deception across this nation. We must expose the lies. I am grateful for this Pastor for taking this on. May God protect Pastor Pat!
If you believe he is going to leave it to the states, you're dead wrong. He will say what he has to say to keep his arse out of prison. He has no idea what TRUTH is.
Leaving it to the states was essentially what the Supreme Court decided in the Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization case. As for leaving it there, Trump obviously has no real agenda of his own on this issue - as you correctly point out, he just needs to stay out of prison, and he understands the only way to do that is to win the presidential election in November, so he'll say anything that he thinks will help him. But any nationwide action on the abortion issue will depend on Congress. At the moment, Congress is pretty dysfunctional. If that changes, it will be because we voted for better people to represent us.
The truth? Like about his stance on abortion? Admit it, you like the authoritarian part, and couldn't care less about the religious nonsense. @@MS-ns2pj
@@MS-ns2pj The truth? Like about his stance on abortion? Admit it, you like the authoritarian part, and couldn't care less about the religious nonsense. @MS-ns2pj
I'm Pro-life, anti unwanted pregnancy...Pro Choice... No law will prevent abortions. Hatred and self-righteousness says ban it. The immortality of unwanted pregnancy is the root of all this and men are equally responsible. Republican concern for children ends at birth. The individual rights of individuals is the real issue. The States right issue is 19th century. Individual choice and rights must be protected.
Your views are self contradictory! You cannot be pro life & pro choice at the same time!!Hatred and self righteousness does not say ban abortion, but the strong stance that all life is sacred to God!!
I too am pro-life and pro-choice. I think it’s between a woman and her God and also her doctor. There are so many different circumstances involved with women and pregnancies and government has no right to try to control a woman’s body or to dictate an across the board one size fits all abortion ban. There is a bigger picture that narrow minded people can’t see. Unwanted children may not be loved. There may be no way the baby can be cared for. There are women and girls dying because of a law that bans abortion and that is not pro-life. I love babies and children yet I would not ignorantly try to force a generalized personal belief on others whose circumstances and situations I do not know or understand.
@@wesleygordon1645sacred to God doesn't mean it should be used as a political tool to get votes. Like all sins, each will be judge by the Lord come judgment day NOT our government!
I totally remember Sean Hannity (back when I listened to him before 2016 hit) used to say get rid of Roe and let the states decide. It's nothing new from these folks. No Christian should be surprised by this. As a Christian, at the time, I fully embraced Fox, Hannity and GOP before Trump; I just couldn't stick with them when he came along. He made them all show their true colors.
As a Christian and a democrat I have always believed that my sanctification is my bottom line. I want to walk in his will. Any government that prevents me from doing so is problematic. Our government is not a Christian organisation. Neither is our country. We can operate within that. But I cannot and will not accept that I must support an ungodly man to push Christian based values. God is the only power that may use those who do not love him to further his agenda. We cannot align ourselves with sinful people and expect to please God. I realise there are many sinful ideals in the Democratic Party. But none of them are what I must choose. And there is no Christian party. Saying that Republicans don’t have sinful ideals is plain wrong. At least Biden is a good man. Accepting Trump is literally choosing a bank robber as your leader then excusing the behavior for benefits. That is sinful. Cherry picking is idolatry. Loving your neighbor doesn’t stop with babies. It gets harder after that but we’re still called to love people and hate sin.
@@tomg6318 Feeling nauseous over a person is a reaction to emotions. So yes, it is an emotional reaction. You have underlined that by the fact that you said, “I feel”. I trust those who have proven that they can be trusted, but I verify everything. I never blindly accept anything.
@@MS-ns2pj I rarely over-hate a person. This orange baby is the top most of the 3 I detest most over my entire life. The first 2 I hated the most, I don't feel anything anymore . No more emotional or physical reaction whatsoever. When diaper don lost to Joe Biden... I felt so relieved. I thought that was it. Then here it is... I'm dealing with this (again). My sister is a tRump supporter. Now we are not talking (again!) So .. this orange guy... makes me nauseous. Yes.. he does because I do hate him.... a lot.!
He just alienated both sides. Anti-abortionists will hate leaving it to the states, and pro-choice advocates will hate leaving it to the states. He couldn't have played this any worse, which is great for the country. There is simply no rational or sane basis for wanting Trump to hold any office, or have any influence over our politics.
No, Trump did not alienate the pro life crowd. The overwhelming majority of people who are pro life are in favor of leaving it up to the states. How anyone feels about that is irrelevant. It has always been a states’ rights issue. The 1973 SCOTUS overstepped their authority and the 2023 SCOTUS corrected that overstep. The Right does not hate like the Left. Their reactions are very different. Trump was the best candidate running that had a chance of winning in 2016, 2020, and once again in 2024.
MS - Your statement is doctrinaire. It sounds obsessive. Why not think a minute and realize that life is not like that? Things can change - even minds!
@@MS-ns2pj You are wrong on every point. The real anti-abortionists want a total ban. It makes absolutely zero sense for a fundamental human right to be arbitrarily allowed or denied based on the address of your residence. Rights are not subject to the opinions of your neighbors, or the whims of perverse political gerrymandering. The right hates so much more than the left, and are beyond intolerant of anyone or anything they don't personally approve of. Trump is the worst President in our history by a wide margin, and he's clearly, obviously, without a doubt one of the very worst human beings alive. He's ignorant, corrupt, incompetent, utterly intoxicated with pathological narcissism, a fraud, a racist, a bigot, a traitor, a criminal, a hypocrite, and has no place whatsoever in any position of authority.
Thank you so much for your channel and thoughtful videos. It is the only place where I can hear my own fears & thoughts articulated. I sincerely appreciate having this place to come to. I feel so alone as a believer who is very offended by Trump and more & more alienated among people saying they're conservatives.
I think President Biden articulated a great message on abortion: "I trust women". I trust women and their doctors to do the right thing for their individual cases. Over and over, Donald Trump has shown that he sees women as toys or conquests, and the danger of saying "let's leave it to the states" is that many people who agree with that view are in control at the state level.
Problem is not every state lets us vote on it. They leave it to the legislators who are horribly out of touch.I’m in Tennessee. It will NEVER be on the ballot here.
And it shouldn’t be on the ballot. Being able to vote on abortion is just an angle to force one’s religion/faith on other people. If you don’t believe in abortion and your Bible says it’s wrong, then fine, don’t have an abortion. What’s the problem?
@@themapmaker5374 if it’s left up to the legislators in red states then the people never have a chance for their voices to be heard. It can be legal and still not mandatory for anyone to have an abortion. Every state that’s had it on the ballot has passed legal abortion so far. It would pass in Tennessee if it was on the ballot. No one is forced to have an abortion but we are forced birth. Even in rape situations and non viable pregnancies.
I ran the data, so called partial birth abortion, about 2,000 in the last 20 years. Those fetuses were already dead or threatened the life of the mother. I have been in healthcare for twenty years and have never heard of one. Great and courageous job dealing with this nonsense.
Good afternoon from the beautiful SF Bay Area. Hi, Pat. Well, I did not watch last night's video, but after listening to this one I will go back because you made me laugh out loud with your conclusion. He is the vilest and most cunning malignant force in our country. Did you hear that he "shared" an article written by an ultra right winger who says that anyone not supporting the Malignant One is America's enemy. What is that if not stochastic rhetoric? And he has deniability because he did not say it or ask it to be written. By this point every one who is not in thrall should know there is nothing too low for him and his loyalists. You should do a video or two on Project 2025. I am finding that even in my liberal circles they are not paying attention and do not know what it is. Pro choice = Pro life = Pro family. Anti choice = Anti life = Anti family.
Hello, Pastor Pat, I have been waiting for your video on your stance on abortion when you first promised in this video series, A Christian case against Donald Trump. “What timing!?” I felt the same sentiment when I saw your video last night and woke up to Trump’s video this morning. As a Christian, I cannot understand how my fellow Christians were able to justify supporting Donald Trump and his ways. I guess that is why I have tuned into your channel. Your messages are well communicated and I pray that it reaches out to fellow Christians who still support DJT. As a man, my heart supports pro-life but my brain/logic says it’s not my choice to make. I personally categorize two life forms when considering a pregnancy; an independent life (mother) and a dependent life (fetus). I do believe this particular categorization is consistent with God’s law, i.e. Exodus 21:22-23. In my view, as long as there is no means (technology/finance) for the society to support that dependent life plucked away from the mother’s womb, the society has no say on what a mother should do. Regardless of my stance, I pray your message to those Christians supporting Pro-Life voters will ring true. I thank you for your thoughts expressed through these videos. I pray, God will amplify your message in this medium.
Is it hopeful that Maga are listening in to this channel? They seemingly have already listened to several of these reasoned and clear-thinking videos and yet are not moved to a change of heart yet! The cult of this guy is strong. I wish Pat strength and resilience to continue the arc work!
I've read about late-term abortions, and they sound absolutely horrific. These aren't people who want to kill babies. These are people who are already picking out baby names and decorating the nursery when they get the call from their doctor that something has gone very, very wrong, and unfortunately there is no medical solution that will result in a healthy baby being born to a healthy mother. Doing nothing could result in both the mother and the baby dying, because we live in a fallen world, corrupted and broken by sin, where these kinds of tragedies just happen. The best thing to do next is going to depend on the specific individual circumstances, and decisions will be need to be made between the parents and the doctors as to the best way forward. This is a situation that will not be improved by having the local district attorney dictate to hospital administrators which emergency medical procedures will result in their doctors going to prison - or, worse, NOT dictating which procedures will have that result, and just letting the doctors try to guess, because the laws are unclear.
I am a grandmother of a girl who is graduating from high school next month. Her dad served this country and has been gone now for ten years. We know what DT thinks of veterans. This grandma believes in women’s healthcare and believing in doctors smart. PS in Numbers 5:11-31 the man was allowed to be in control.
Trump is the golden calf of Evangelicals Punishment of the Guilty Taking up a position near the entrance of the camp, Moses said: "Whoever is with G‑d, come to me!" The entire tribe of Levi gathered about him, and Moses ordered them to slay every one guilty of worshipping the Golden Calf, regardless of his position and relationship to them. That day, the seventeenth day of Tammuz, three thousand men of the children of Israel lost their lives, in punishment for their idolatry.
I’m an actual follower of Christ and people calling themselves pro life sickens me. Tell the truth and call yourself anti abortion, anti women’s rights to life and health. Kids dying of anything else other than abortion seems to bother the “pro life” voter NOT ONE BIT! if you read this and you are honest you know that is the truth even if you are the rarest of exceptions.
You’re assuming that everyone who has or will vote for Trump is religious. That’s not true. Nobody is wincing over this. The Federal Government doesn’t have the authority to rule on a states’ rights issue.
@MS-ns2pj That’s because Trump feigned religion to trick the evangelical crowd into voting him in. Then he appointed the three partisan religious extremists to the Extreme Court (sadly no longer supreme) who dishonestly claimed Roe was settled law to get the seats and then overturned Roe anyhow. Guess those judges are unacquainted with the Ten Commandments, despite their religious facade. The result has been heartless politicians inserting themselves between women and doctors, and doing real harm in the process. See Biden’s heartbreaking new ad on a couple adversely affected if you’re not up to date on why the only real result has been chaos in these states. The ad is just one of hundreds, maybe thousands, of real people suffering because of Trump’s transactional relationship with anti choice fanatics.
First off I like to thank you for sharing some information about your background. You were spot on in your video from last night. Trump recanted his statement about abortion just today. Its sad that so many people who claimed to be a Christian don't mind be lied to constantly. Lying is also a sin.
@MS-ns2pj That argument is completely beside the point of my video, and also, you know that's not the argument he's making. He didn't say he won't support a national ban because the federal government isn't allowed to decide anything on states rights issues. His argument is that he wants to get elected. I can't imagine what kind of life it is to spend one's time on the internet defending Donald Trump.
@@culturefaithandpolitics A national ban on abortion is not possible. The Federal Government doesn’t have the authority to ban or legalize abortion. It’s a states’ rights issue. I do not spend my life online. I have a happy marriage, children, grandchildren, friends, a career, and hobbies. I go online when I’m waiting on others. Such is the life of a Sheriff’s Lieutenant. I’m the Watch Commander wherever I’m assigned and I’m often waiting on subordinates. At no point have I defended Trump. I will always defend the truth.
When it comes to trump, I'm now at the point that l view ANYTHING that he says or does as a means to keep from going to prison. By the way, executing babies AFTER BIRTH??? C'mon man.
Don't you think Trump is evil? Someone who takes "delight" in describing such an "horrific" acts that didn't happen only to garner applause and adoration...is that not evil?
You are spot on. Trump always take both side of an issue or no side hoping people will believe he is on there side even though he didn’t really man up and take a specific side. Unfortunately and sadly it works for those who want to believe he is on their side.
In Thor #353, Odin, Thor, and Loki team up against Surtur. Odin says, "For Asgard!" Thor says, "For Midgard!" Loki says "For myself!" With Trump even if he aligns himself with others on a particular issue, he is not truly an ally. He is out solely for himself and only teams with others to achieve or avoid something for himself alone.
I said this in yesterday's video: *"I dont/wouldn't vote for Trump or anyone JUST for that; it makes no sense to me because that ruler can come up with another law(s) even worse (like persecute all Christians) and YOU helped him to be President."* Thank Jesus that Donald J. Trump is consistent. You vote for CHARACTER and TRUTH, not for someone who tickles your ears. May Christ have Mercy on whom He will have Mercy. Amen.
Do you even know the meaning of 'consistent'? I guess to you '1' sometimes equals '2'; because in your Moronic And Grossly Asinine world 'truth' and 'lie' are the same.
You're doing the kind of work that God probably wants us to do--to be truthful, and humane. As far as the "trump maga Christians" are concerned, we're about to find out where they actually stand.
I do think that Christians need to acknowledge that pro-choice is not the same as pro-abortion. Christian women still have every right not to get an abortion if they are morally opposed to it.
Amen! And isn't it wonderful when the pro-life people support pregnant women and mothers so much that abortion only becomes a serious question when it's a critical medical issue.
Pat, I recently discovered your videos and watched each one. I'm so glad you are doing these. I know people who are loyal supporters of Trump and believe all the lies. It just boggles my mind why they won't fact check. Maybe they don't want to know.
That was cool to hear about you getting kicked out of a DJT rally in Minneapolis, where I lived for 25 years. I hope you tell the details of that story some time. The good work you and others are doing is helping people realize that DJT is a nihilist, exemplified by the way he is inconsistent on issue after issue. On abortion, for example, wasn't he recommending a 15 week national ban just a short while ago?
It is old news now... but I recommend, as I happened to be doing lately, a listen to or read of Cassidy Hutchinson's book Enough, while you go through this series... her story... the values she re-discovered, seem to be a good companion to the spirit and values of this place.
@@culturefaithandpolitics I just listened to the audiobook, read by Cassidy herself. Tugged at the heartstrings for me anyway, although she sure took a long time to come to her senses, as to trumpworld... (It took Jan6 to wake her up, unlike you or I who could smell a rat in 2016!... but I think it's an interesting window into the heart/soul/thinking of someone who was a pretty dedicated team player, until the scales fell away. Maybe shows how someone could be 'rescued' but then maybe not either - she was able to cross over, but many others close to her did not and my ongoing forever question is why some do and some don't (or can't)? Keep up the good work. I'm sure there's got to be a few that may be crossing over to the right side of history, with your help.
Through conversations with lady friends, I found out that so many voted Republican but had abortions and others that voted Democrat had never had an abortion. I started to understand that it wasn't fair to vote just based on that one issue. Pro-life means lots more than just no abortion. What about maternity leave, feeding our children, better education, helping families with childcare. You are right. Politicians have been calling themselves pro-life to sway our vote, we need to take this platform out of politics, this is a moral issue.
Abortion is neither a political nor a religious issue. It is a medical issue. Do you want politicians telling the medical profession how to do their jobs? And if you have religious beliefs then you are free to practice them as you wish but not to enforce them on others. If killing babies is such a concern, why do we tolerate uneccesary wars or alllow practically every citizen to carry a gun? These are far more pressing issues to deal with and affect everyone. Abortion only really affects the person dealing personally with the issue. The rest of you can mind your own business.
Sister Joan Chittester said it best: "I think in many cases your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born, but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth."
Ha! It was the Target Center in 2019, and yes, I'll tell it sometime when it fits with my message. I probably shouldn't have brought it up, but it's kind of a fond memory for me. It was my first, VERY public declaration against Trump, after years of quiet opposition just with friends and family members. The short story is that I went there alone, and I wore a black shirt that I often wore when I was preaching, so anyone from my church who was there could recognize me and know that it was me. This was after I retired. I stood up directly behind him (but above the level of what the cameras captured) and started shouting my opposition to him until security came and fetched me. That's the shorter story, but the longer story of that day is both funny and illuminating. But once the cops let me go that night I realized I had to find more effective ways to get the message across, so that's when I started writing and speaking about him.
The second video was very interesting in the sense that Donald Trump is reverting to how things were when abortions were legal; the decision to have or not to have an abortion reverts to the individual.
I am pro-choice, but I could accept a 15 or 16 week national ban if ( and it's a BIG IF ) it meant that 15 or 16 weeks was for every state. States that have total bans or any ban less that 15-16 weeks would have to raise their ban amount to 15-16 weeks and states with ban's above 15-16 weeks would have to lower their ban to 15-16 weeks. When I told some friends my idea, they all said that my idea would make everyone unhappy. I replied, "That's how I know it's a good idea". COMPROMIZE.
Remember what happened to Nebuchadnezzar when he kept exalting himself. That judgment with sentence. Tehillim (Psa) 14:1 CJB [1] For the leader. By David: Fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They deal corruptly, their deeds are vile, not one does what is right.
The video you referred to was well-put. May evangelicals give it some hard thought. Trumps "pro-life" stance is about his own life--he refused to enlist while other young men his age were dying in Vietnam. Has everyone forgotten that he is a convicted rapist? Would he not be complicit in producing unwanted children? He is no one to be taking ANY position for the sake of so-called " leadership" position. This is such a complex issue and a male politician has no right to be using it to get elected. This is the person who called himself "the Chosen One"and looked towards heaven while saying so. That should have been enough to turn evangelicals totally away from him. However, Daystar TV seems to have a firm grip on the mind's of its watchers, mixing truths with falsehoods and trying to inform it's viewing audience that "we" (evangelicals) are the party of the Republicans. I wish Christians could think for themselves.
Thank you for making these videos. I’ve never been fooled by Trump, but my friends and family who trust Trump are so inoculated against any criticism of him that I’m afraid that even your excellent videos just can’t get a toehold with them. How do you answer the ‘fake news’ reply that seems to them to be the universal refutation?
I know this isn't pro life or pro choice. However today when reading Titus 3 10. & 11 I was surprised at how these 2 verses pertain to today."Titus 3:10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." Final Messages
I am in great sympathy with those who would like to see an end to abortion. However, a national ban on the practice would be just as unconstitutional as Roe was. Trump is espousing a view entirely consistent with Constitutional law. You have the opportunity, thanks to Trump's appointments to SCOTUS to set law regarding abortion in your state. Use that power.
@Mustapha1963 Trump’s views change frequently depending on who he thinks might vote for him. He was pushing a 16 week national ban because he likes even numbers. Then a 15 week ban. Now it’s states rights. All throwing it to the states has done is to create chaos and misery in the red states. The problem with what you suggest is that Republicans in red states are doing everything they can to prevent voters from having a voice in the matter. They know that every single state that has allowed it on the ballot has come down on the side of pro choice, including red states like Kansas and Ohio. And the stories of women suffering are just converting even more to become pro choice.
IDEA CONTESTS === IDEA CONTESTS Great video, but we need better ads to wake up Trump voters, right now, Ask people to come up with ad ideas and find which ones really wake up voters. ============================================================ TNX
No, Trump didn’t alienate his voters. Abortion is a states’ rights issue. The 1973 SCOTUS overstepped their authority by ruling in favor of Roe vs. Wade and the 2023 SCOTUS corrected that overstep. The Federal Government does not have the authority to either legalize or ban abortion. The overwhelming majority of the people who will vote for Trump understand that and the ones that don’t know will do the research and find out. Anyone that wants the Feds to decide on this issue are unaware of the law.
In His video he just proclaimed he is pro choice, that is ultimately what he is saying . He did just enough to allow people to access abortions. He stands there with brown makeup on and lies that Democrats are killing babies beyond the 9th month, so l guess he is saying that they kill babies after they are fully born humans. To hear a man say that… not realizing how it feels to have life inside of you and the joy & stress once you hold that little one in your arms. It’s sad that anyone can willingly support such a deceitful person who aims to destroy the fabric of the country for their own selfish benefit. He threatens those who don’t want to vote for him. Should we hide in fear, or vote for him for fear of retaliation…so disappointing that ppl can ignore this threat, his threats that he makes out in the open and ppl turn their backs and say, well he won’t hurt me so it’s ok. The GOP now lies & focuses on the 1-5%, while ignoring the whole 40-45 % centrist who make up the majority of the electorate. I guess it will be a surprise when voters are heard because the right is misrepresenting who they are NOT reaching… it’s not the “radical left”… it’s a combo of Republicans, Independents and Democrats… nothing radical. I voted for him in 2016 and can’t believe how quickly he began to work hard to undermine the country…at every turn.
Most people don't even know WHEN Roe was decided, much less issues of authority. You must be joking if you think the majority of Trump voters know or care about that. They just hear "pro-life" and pick a team.
@@daydreamerz No, I am not joking. I am a moderate conservative Republican. Most of the people who have and/or will vote for Trump are moderates, moderate conservatives, and conservatives. They take the time to do the research, consider that research, and then form an opinion. Sure, there are always exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions. Most of them are pro life and when something is important to them, they take the time to make sure. Yes, almost all of them understand that Roe Vs. Wade was decided in 1973 and yes, they understand that the 2022 SCOTUS corrected that mistake. I see that a made a typo.
Slavery was also once a states' rights issue. Roe was not about abortion as much as it was privacy in medical decision-making. The overturning of Roe will have far-reaching consequences beyond abortion.
@@LulaMae21 Thr privacy in medical decision making remains intact. The overturning of Roe will have absolutely no impact beyond abortion. The SCOTUS doesn’t have the authority to rule on abortion.
Nothing could be any.more clearly stated in the Catch of the Catholic Church. Abortion is a Grave Mortal sin .. Not just the women who Catholic has the Abortion ,also any one who assists or supports it. It seems that this poster is afraid to have a orthodox Catholic defend the Faith .
So, if you're a Catholic, and you believe that abortion is a sin, you shouldn't have an abortion. It's not right to impose your religious beliefs on others.
My last name is Polish. There were 3 million people who were Jewish in Poland in 1939 . By 1945 most were not alive . Those who did live were hidden by Righteous Gentiles. Most of those were Catholic. Not an easy choice for those who helped them,as in helping them they faced death. By the Germans .Why risk their lives , because of the Moral Law. Again I counted with the Righteous Gentiles then watch the deaths of the innocent.
I wouldn’t even respond to people trolling you. You have to learn to love the taste of troll. I honestly don’t see what is wrong with leaving abortion at the State level. We are after all living ina democracy, and if Idon’t vote for it I a, not liable before God. When it was “legal” everywhere there was the obvious moral jeopardy that my tax dollars were fungeably supporting it. As long as my State, Local, or Federal government isn’t funding it, and I voted against it, how can God say I bear the burden of it? As Paul said, “I am free from the blood of all men, because I never held back from preaching the full gospel to them.”
How petty is your god that your salvation is a nitpicking of how your taxes are spent? You have neither full control nor knowledge of where taxes go. Will you go to hell for funding contrived wars where innocent people were murdered? How about paying corrupt defense contractors instead of feeding and clothing the poor?
You do realize that every red state has blue areas and blue states have red areas. Plus we know that every single state where abortion rights were put on the ballot has come down on the side of choice, including red states like Kansas.
1Samuel 8:7-9 7 And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.” At what point does legislating morality end? Did you know that fornication is illegal among consenting minors in many states. If I were king, abortion would be illegal in my realms, and I would make the extra effort of trying to connect with the women and families who were desperate enough to try to get around that decree. Different question. Does God want us to enforce His Law against sin through legislation and punitive action? Wouldn’t we have a majority of America encare rated at any given point in time? As for a national abortion ban, I am not opposed to it. But these loopholes of six weeks and all that. If you are going to ban it, start at the very first moment a woman could know she is pregnant. That means the morning after pill has to be made illegal. Now concerning the numbers, there are currently about 700000 abortions per year, the ally network is approaching five million dedicated followers. The broader social support would likely melt away quickly if there were a law and some enforcement action. Fining women who have abortions before a certain time and charging them with felony murder after a certain term, and banning doctors from further practice, and possibly charging them with murder at all stages for assisting, would close that. It is possible to do. I’m just wondering if the boundaries of the “Christian Nation” are supposed to be national borders, doors of churches, or doors to human hearts? Because in everyone of those scenarios, sin and hypocrisy will undermine the dream of Christ reigning through us on this earth until He returns. I’m sorry but we are ambassadors, and those who petition our embassy can find forgiveness, freedom from guilt, and joy in His presence. Nowhere does the Bible say we will remove sin from the earth before the New Heavens. I am sure abortion will be illegal everywhere during the Millenial Reign of Christ. Should it be illegal now, in America? I would say yes, but is it the churches’ obligation to die at the altar of legislating morality? Did Jesus, or Paul, or any New Testsment Christian try to use the laws of Rome to reform Roman citizens into faith? How did it work out when Constantine and Theodosius tried? Since I believe abortion is murder, and I believe we must have laws against murder, I am for a national ban, but I don’t see an imperative in the gospel to go beyeond these three things1) the issue sits at a level of granularity where people are regularly having to choose to support it or not 2) no government is fungeably funding it with the taxes of non-consenting citizens 3)hard work is done to craft legal punishments that don’t carve out loopholes like a six week or four week limit. It has to be absolute that any act done with the intention to end a pregnancy is culpable.
