Competition or just for fun? My gun shop only had the CCW and ST - actually traded an old revolver for the ST, but didn't have the XL. Went 6 MOA ST, originally planned for 3 MOA XL. I'll have to compare them sometime.
@@thomaswolf6507 David is a high level competition shooter, so I think he can reap the benefits more. For Action Shooting, I think the Larger Dot would be a Greater Benefit compared to the Larger Window. It's easier for my eyes to pick up, and tends to show less astigmatism effect.
@g-dawg79 how is the battery door on the xl? Not sure why they went with a different design, but it looked quite a bit different in a video I watched.
@@fattigla Not sure. This is my first Vortex, and had my dealer install it.The manual says, "Using a small flathead, remove the set screw on the side of the red dot. Depress the silver battery door latch on the top of the optics, the latch will pop open. Install CR2032. Battery Plus (+) side up"
Was just about to comment this. To add to it, I had the first ccw for a while. Vortex happily took my perfect working condition old one and sent me a new one all within a week 👍
vortex is doing a rolling update on the defender ccw. 10 minute auto shut off compared to 14 hours and a better refresh rate to eliminate the flashing effect. They’re sending me an updated one and then I’ll send my current defender ccw with the provided shipping label.
My Venom STB and Vortex replaced it with this sight, I love it so far. If you have any pull with Vortex tell them to make a green dot option, then send one to me for suggesting it.
Wondered if a 6 MOA ST would be good enough for competition, just put one on my CZ S2C and it's a beauty. Side note: The ST and XL both use the DPP footprint, but the CCW version does not!
@@thomaswolf6507 i shoot USPSA, Steel Challenge, and 2Gun with mine. 6MOA is more than ok for competition use. The dot isn't insanely huge. Keep in mind what 6MOA means, 6 inches at 100yards. So on a 6 inch plate at 100yards, the dot would cover it. I have a bunch of POV videos on my page where you can see the dot while im shooting.
Is there a way to turn off the 10min auto shut off? Instructions online and owners manual just say if you turn off manually it’ll disable motion activation (duh). Mine seems to shut off and then not want to turn back on unless I press the up button. Also. Sometimes I pick it up after leaving it in safe and for whatever reason it’s on the lowest setting. So I’m going to mess with the lockout mode + turn off auto shutoff to see if that fixes my issues, before sending it off to Vortex.
@@not_that_jon_guy I have a slight astigmatism and this red dot is the nicest to my eye that I've looked through ,which is what sold me on it in the first place. That and, if I end up liking this, I'll get a 3moa version to use as an offset dot with the PST 1-6
And now we have the new Melrolight MPO Pro S/F models at $250 for the S and $300 for the F models, both enclosed emitters, the S is RMSc footprint and the F is RMR footprint, and so far , with regards to durability and reliability, these things are testing far better than the ACRO and EPS/EPS Carry. Also, coming from someone with astigmatism, who has been carrying concealed for over 15 years and has used too many different pistol red dots to list, and so far , in my experience, this is the clearest dot I have ever looked through the only other optic that comes close is the green Holosun EPS Carry , but that still isn’t as crisp as these new Melrolight MPO Pro models
They have an update CCW that’s pretty damn good now. Definitely my go to for micro RDS. I currently own 2 ST RDS and I have to say they’re great. Most importantly, it’s a really pretty RDS. I personally hate the look of a closed emitter RDS. They’re going for $275 on Amazon. Also the ST is taller compared to the DPP. ST is 20mm tall compared to 17.5mm tall for the DPP.
Oh dang I just noticed at the this isn't an XL review. We look forward to your XL review hope you got one of those bad boys in the 8 moa as well fine sir! Also I'm jones-ing for one of those rotating barrel beauty's; how is the Q100 is it in the same league with the K100 DA/SA offering or the PX4 line? I'm going to break down and pick up that sweet sweet LTT PX4 G-SD fully optioned out, but maybe I'll make it to some time this fall or black friday sale type thing hopefully.
Have mine on a CZ Shadow 2 Compact and it made it a far better gun. Slide is far easier to work (CZ's have really narrow slides, but great machining like a narrow but high quality 1911), so the red dot really helps. Only complaint I had (other than paying $77 for an adapter plate) was no green dot option. Not everyone wants red on their targets.
Any red dot will provide what you mentioned really, not attacking you, but any red dot makes a CZ a far better gun and any red dot makes them much easier to rack as of course you're completely right, those narrow slides are a separate training event unto themselves to rack well. :) Honestly surprised CZ couldn't think up a solution for the CZ Shadow 2 Compact before it came out, all they had to do was something similar to how the Archon B slide is designed, but do it in their own way, and racking would be ten times improved.
Just bought the Trijicon RMR HD , think I’ll pass on that one . LEO/military. Was able to pick it up for 560.00 , not to to bad .. really like it .. thanks for the video
I’ve got 6 DeltaPoint Pro’s and I’ve NEVER had an issue with function or their durability. However I have purchased comparable sights from Trijicon AND Vortex, each of which had to be returned to the factory for repair with 9 months from purchase. (My SRO has been there a month now). I am not opposed to trying new products, especially if they establish a good performance record, but it sounds like your opinion is biased because you can’t hold onto your gun. Any red dot can be broken, and so far, I haven’t seen or used a dot that performs like the DPP for clarity, view window, and ease of use. Just my 2 cents.
I shot deltapoint pros in competition for a few years to the point you could consider me a power user. The bias I show you is experience. I have had 3 of them in for service - broke 2 of the pre-update boards. Sometimes holsters have screws back out and dump guns on the ground and when you are dryfiring daily - that can happen. Don’t be so insecure.
Technically DPP is a better footprint in the sense that it fits full size 2032 batteries instead of having bottom loading batteries, overhanging windows or side-loading 1632s like Holosun. But it's just not popular enough and doesn't have the two most common optics brands on board, Trijicon and Holosun. The new Primary Arms RM-15 would be another interesting, new DPP footprint optic to look at.
The best DPp (ish) footprint optic on the market right now is probably the Holosun SCS-320, then there's the just released Defender XL if you have to have that big window. Fun fact, RMS-c optics like the full size EPS fit on a DPP footprint, though you might need a spacer plate to take up the fore and aft gaps.
The DPP and RMS footprints are superior as they fit on most pistol slides. It will be interesting to see if manufacturers quit supporting RMR pattern how it will play out.
@@TheHumbleMarksman honestly we should have a conference with all optics manufacturers and most pistol manufacturers, and then create one final footprint for all. Maybe two, if we want one clamp-on rail for enclosed optics. But just one for screw-down optics. That includes 4 recoil bosses in all corners to take the load off all screws. That is so universal that every pistol and optic can be built around it. Get your stuff together, industry!
Yeah lots of oh lame not the RMR footprint and I get that but at the same time the DPP footprint has a lot going for it, just not optics options for competitive shooters. Looks like we may be having a positive change on that front.
That thing sits pretty high eh? Idc, I don't think it matters other than the larger offset with the barrel adding some deviation in distance adjustments I suppose. Just interesting
Hi Steve here from Australia. Love the reviews but just wondering if you can possibly do a review on both the Vortex Defender XL and the Bul Armoury Blaze as i am at the stage i would lke to purchase this combo to shoot Standard Optics...cheers Steve
Despite being a Vortex Fan Boy, I have to admit, despite the popularity, the Pistol Dot game, especially on the feature front, has been pretty weak.I think the ST and XL is a needed improvement to the lineup.
I feel like I'd rather have the Romeo X for the lower deck height, rather than the Defender ST for the superior reticle. Although, I ultimately went with the Eotech EFLX in 6 MOA because I got a heck of a deal from that planet of optics...
@@TheHumbleMarksman Out of curiosity, why no EFLX review? With the relatively small number of 6 MOA dot choices, I'm surprised it hasn't come up. If it would help support the channel, I have one mounted on a P10C slide that I could lend for evaluation.
@@TheHumbleMarksman I'm also in the North Texas metropolitan area. The first thing I did after unboxing it was point it right at the sun to check for brightness. It seemed fine but it wasn't summer yet and the battery was perfectly fresh, so I'll have to reevaluate it now that I've had it for a bit.
I picked one up off optics planet for 235. No brainer BUT I wanted to put it on my M&P 2.0 and the DPP plate for the M&P won’t fit it. I am not going to buy C&H but heard that calculated kinetics will be bringing one to market soon!
Looks nice, but I prefer the shape of the c-more rst2, romeo max3. Just waiting on c-more rst3 to be released from what I was told by C-More rep. it's probably won't be released until August now. Because of the battery and US want watch batteries to be child proof. How bout parents be child proof and give me my damn optic already!!!😂
@@TheHumbleMarksman I did well on stages, 12, 1, 2, 3, and 10, but absolutely shid the bed due to heat on stage 11. 4-9 tomorrow. Fingers crossed I'll crush it.
Hey David I’m in the market for a pistol dot for daily carry and competition use , I’m of the buy onece cry once mindsets but am also a broke college student. Anyways I’d really appreciate your input, I really like the Sro wide field of view but an open to suggestions, thanks in advance
Put it on a shadow and see how many rounds it lasts. I've had nothing but trouble with vortex dots on mine. CS is amazing. Breaking 3-4 dots a year is not. 500 rounds is not an adequate test of dot durability
@@TheHumbleMarksman I would guess since less slide mass so more violent impact each stroke, and metal...so no flex so no deflection of energy in the areas of flex that can lessen energy send just a little....then repeat for thousands of rounds and you have increased breakage. It's a guess.
They say that DPP and RMS are the only two footprints that really make sense for pistol slides - a lot of slides can’t natively accept RMR - it was just the best solution when people started putting optics on pistols - it’s poorly matched to most pistol slide widths
@@TheHumbleMarksman fair point. They'll need to take identical slides and mill them for each with recoil lugs and do stress tests on them while comparing optic width. My experience w a DPP was that it was bulky.
you're not focusing on the slide width - the slides have to be bulky to accept RMR - which a lot of pistols aren't wide enough for. The DPP is not a good site for carry - but the Vortex Defender CCW and ST are. The new Romeo X is amazing - and the X Enclosed is even better. Look at the new optic system on the BAO for Bul Armory. they have to use thicker bar stock to accept the RMR spaced screws into the slide. RMR is only a thing because it was the only good optic when we started doing this. Its legacy has been preserved because people wanted to sell optics that met the existing footprint. It's still a bad footprint for a pistol slide.
I’ve got 6 DeltaPoint Pro’s and I’ve NEVER had an issue with function or their durability. However I have purchased comparable sights from Trijicon AND Vortex, each of which had to be returned to the factory for repair with 9 months from purchase. (My SRO has been there a month now). I am not opposed to trying new products, especially if they establish a good performance record, but it sounds like your opinion is biased because you can’t hold onto your gun. Any red dot can be broken, and so far, I haven’t seen or used a dot that performs like the DPP for clarity, view window, and ease of use. Just my 2 cents.
Well we owe you some change then for your two cents, as you've overpaid the worth of your opinion if you aren't able to hear the objectivity of his own anecdotal experience of experiencing a failure from dropping his Delta on concrete and it breaking...it's an event that happened and truth isn't altered bud just because you had six different drops yourself and yours didn't break...and then...being so classy and intelligent as you are, you mock him for being unable to hold onto his gun for one drop, while you admit to dropping your gun at least six times more than he does but faily to mock yourself.....that's called being an asshole. Unless....are you saying you have six DPP's and haven't dropped them so you're clueless to their actual durability in drop situations but are criticizing the reviewer because he did drop his? Shall we compare traffic ticket records bud? So if you have less tickets are the better driver or are you just caught less? See how your logic is downright stupid? Just because he dropped one AND IT BROKE is very very helpful info as it shows that even one mistake can cost you a big chunk of money...kind of like speeding tickets....and yet the fact that the optic broke isn't the fault of the driver of the gun....it's the fault of how it's built. So good job genius, tell your dad Rainman that next time Wopner is on you want to know so you can learn how to judge something smartly? Oh and no....not any red dot can be broken....the RMR is vastly superior to most or all in the abuse it can withstand, hence it's price tag bud.....you're not paying for the purity of the red color, or the size of the window right? Hmmm....what's that leave as a value proposition to justify the hundreds of dollars in increased expense of an RMR? I'll help....it's durability because they typically don't break actually. It's the corner design and the arced recessed top that all help defer energy much better than others.
