Dr. J VS John Havlicek: Who Was Greater? 

I feel like Havlicek is one of the most slept on players all time, he was an elite player with an insane resume that no one talks about !

Hondo got drafted by the NFL. i’d say his athleticism was on par

I really appreciate the kind of content you’re putting out. You do a better job of providing history for younger fans like me than the nba does imo.

Havlicek possessed elite athleticism.

Two of my favorite things: old school nba and Castlevania

Both are great!!

Winning aside: If you want to sell tickets, I'm telling you, it's Dr. J. 😊

That was an amazing video! It's really hard to compare the two players as both were unique in their own way! For sheer athleticism, Dr J. is the man! For sheer consistency, Hondo gets my vote! Both players were very classy individuals both on and off the court!!

They did A LOT of scoring without the 3 point line.......

Havlicek is one of the most underrated players EVER, in terms of peak overall level of play but also awards and accolades. Hondo’s definitely one of the very best forwards ever!… Still, I gotta go with Dr J, when it comes to both at their primes but also all-time rank (with EVERYTHING considered). I can see the case for Havlicek, especially regarding all-time ranks, yet I’d say Erving is above, and I’d pick him before Havlicek.

Hondo was the man! He never slowed down and never stopped moving. A massive presence on both ends of the court and the go to man in the clutch. Until Bird got there, he was the best that I saw play for The Celtics.

Two guys who got it done in different ways. They were both winners and inspirational. I’d have a really hard time picking either one of them. I love Hondo’s all around play as much as I love Dr. J’s athleticism.

I'll never forget how Knick fans feared Hondo back in the early 70s when I first started paying attention to basketball. He was GREAT great!

Okay, liking this page. Was gonna be irked at the raw fg% talk but SO GLAD you mentioned efg% and broke down their actual scoring and what they shot, I love this with videos. You got a new viewer lol

That was a great video, you covered it all! Havlicek was my favorite player growing up, so I'm going with Havlicek as well! Erving's highlight reel looks more impressive, but he was not as good of an all around player as Havlicek. Havlicek had no weakness and was one of the most clutch players in NBA history. He had an incredible mid range jump shot, was one of the best movers without the ball, could score on a set shot or off the dribble, could lead a fast break or finish a fast break, great passer, great defender and great clutch shooter. Thanks for highlighting these wonderful players and ambassadors of the sport!

Havlicek has always been an easy choice for top 5 SF, only being outpaced by Bird, LeBron, maybe Barry, Baylor, and Dr. J on a good day. I feel like all of those guys are easily the top 6 with maybe Kawhi hovering in there and players, like Nique, Worthy, Pippen coming into the fray.

Congratulations! You picked two great basketball players I respect and admire. I missed all of Dr. J's career in the ABA. I caught Havlicek's career on Sundays starting around 1974. Both these players were peak performers and found ways to help their teams win. I'd like to think Dr. J's 1983 NBA championship punctuated his greatness. He was at the end of his career and still made the most memorable dunk in a NBA championship game. Since I didn't see the Doctor play in the ABA I never assumed he scored all his points on dunk shots. When I see his ABA clips he had a mid-range jump shot to go with the dunks and layups. I mentioned the mid-range jump shot because I learned basketball without a three point line. All my favorite teams, the Bullets, the Knicks, and Celtics had players that could shoot jumpers and free throws. Boston was the team that seemed to be the team on TV more than my Bullets. The big boys in the neighborhood on the basketball court games mirrored the Celtics. Hondo was well admired by them and it trickled down to me. Hondo was a great. Dr. J was great. As they aged the fans could breath. Those guys would always make you take a deep breathe when they were about to operate. Great job, Uncle Hays.

Love this video!

Excellent video

Both great players good enough for me

Here is the problem with the argument. If the NBA counted on John Havlicek to survive, it might no longer exist. Evrving carried the league for 3 years until Bird and Magic arrived! And even that was by a thread! Without him, no one can prove to me the NBA would have lasted. Havlicek had virtually no effect on that.

Hot take but give me Hondo, especially NBA wise, he was one the best defenders ever at this position and always bought in during the playoffs

Cool video. I think it’s an apples and oranges comparison. Dr. J was primarily a scorer, while Havlicek was a better defender and had a better all-around game.

Dr J... maybe im biased as a sixers fan but i also always acknowledge a players ABA achievements if they played in both leagues... especially considering how influential the ABA was and had a lot of star talent to.. but havo is definitely underrated

It really depends on what I need. Do I need a athletic rim runner that can cut whenever, rise up above the rim & garner me a couple steals & blocks a night? Or do I need a point forward who can shoot on-ball or off-ball, plays good defence & can also work his way inside when need be? I feel like I prefer Hondo in most cases but can’t deny Julius is great in his own right. Both are easily Top 10 for SF’s all time.

This is a tough one, but I ain't disagreeing or agreeing, they both are super great depending on the lense you look through either of them could be viewed as greater than the other. Julius impact on future greats and the NBAs growth like Hondo is underappreciated.

Hard to choose which one is best because both of these guys were special athletes in there own way, but they are both gentlemen on and off the court...John havilcek was a member of one of the greatest dynasty teams the boston celtics that won alot of championships in decade with some great teammates such as Bill Russell, Jones boys (Sam & KC) Tom Heinsohn, Bailey Howell, Don Nelson, Satch sanders, Jo jo white, Paul silias Dave cowens and etc., while Dr.J played in the free sprited ABA and played with the Philadelphia 76ers that featured some solid ball players such as Moses molone, bobby jones, Mo cheeks, Andrew Toney, Sir Charles (Charles Barkley) Cadwell jones and etc...But Dr.J despite not winning alot of championships, he'll always be remembered as great gentlemen with high flying talent and his 1983 championship will never be forgotten and Hondo even though he has never won regular season MVP, he will be remembered as great gentlemen with great skills as he was instant offense and good on defense coming off the bench as the 6th man for legendary boston Celtics of the 1960s and main guy for 1974 and 1976 team

This was extremely interesting and intriguing to me. I always thought that Dr J was better, especially if we are including his ABA days, as I believe he is somewhere between 10 - 15 on the all time list. But, you're analysis really stunned me in a good way, and although I'm not entirely moved on the matter, I do believe Hondo is now one of the more underrated basketball players in history. Overall, this is a great video.

John Havicek was as electrifying as larry bird and michael jordan. It was such a pleasure to watch him!!! ❤❤❤

Hondo had one of the best teachers on defense of all time. That gave him an advantage that most others would never had.

Both were legends, celtic fan

I'm a new subscriber to your channel and I love your videos. I have to go Hondo, easily the better player in my opinion because the majority of Doc's incredible accomplishments as a player came in a weaker league and Hondo is one of the most overlooked players in history

I watched them both from 1976 till they retired, you can make a strong argument for both of them but I would say Julius. Doc won 2 championships in the ABA, was MVP it's last 3 years of existence and dominated the league, Made non basketball fans basketball fans, Was possibly the greatest ambassador the game was ever seen or willl see and forced the merger to happen. What happened when he came to the NBA he played for the title four of the first 7 years in the league, with no more than three hall of famers at a time. Julius impact on the sport, how he brought the game above the rim with artistry can't be diminished, he was box office. I was in The spectrum in 1978 I know the excitement that he brought I got a chance to meet him and I was on broad street when we won the title in 1983. John havlichek is the all time leading score for the Celtics got 8 rings played both ends to win and did it for his whole career and was also a perfect role model for the sport. I got a autograph picture from him in 1976, he was the first pro athlete that ever responded to one of my fan letters. I fell in love with Hondo in 1976 after seeing the greatest game ever played, the 3 overtime game versus Phoenix, I fell in love with basketball and Paul Wesphal that game too. They were both winners on and off the court and each possessed an amount of class that the whole league can't muster up if you combined every player in it today. Julius was more impactful on the sport and if I am a GM I would take a prime 25 year old Julius Erving over Hondo anyday honestly, but I loved them both.

He was sixth man in the beginning of his career but he still played big time minutes

Great presentation. IMO, the point is not who was better, but look how good they both were. Having followed Hondo since his first game at Ohio State and interviewed him for a book, here is some added information on him. His name is pronounced Hav-ul-check by his family, but few media. The NBA All-Defense team was first selected in 1969, after John had been in the league for six years and when his focus turned to offense. Still, he made first or second team every year but one in the next nine years. Athleticism is more than jumping. Not only did John excel at 2 and 3 as you said, he played point in parts of most games and 4 when the Celtics were behind and pressing. Also, he was the first high school athlete to be first team All-Ohio in football, baseball and basketball. Woody Hayes said he would have been the best qb in the Big Ten; after graduating he was drafted by the Cleveland Browns and the last man cut, because first round draft choice Gary Collins, an All-American receiver at the position John was playing, could also punt. Then the Browns contacted him five more years, though he was an NBA star. Also, he hit .591 as a first baseman on the OSU freshman baseball team, then started the next two years on varsity. If there were a basketball tournament among worlds, with the winner being allowed to control the Universe, Havlicek would be sixth man for us - and probably lead the team in minutes played.

Both were big time scorers.. winners.. great athletes.. passers.. defenders.. havlicek was a swingman.. erving forward.. but havlicek was a better rebounder.. and took more clutch shots at the end of games.. sometimes the difference between two guys is very subtle or small.. but havlicek was the guy who always seemed to be doing big things even without the ball... He was like having an extra head coach.. very smart.. he was just better without a huge tangible difference.... erving was more flashy and marketable.. maybe put more Fannies in the seats.... both were Superstars. But if I had to pick one in a draft for my team I'd take havlicek

Great video & topic, as usual. Hondo is without a doubt one of the greatest players ever & THE best 6th man ever. The mechanic, no mere "bus rider" but he didn't lead the team until late in his career. I think Doc might be the best small forward ever as Bird was really a 4 who played 3 at times. I also think Julius accomplished as much or more than LeBron in less time against greater all-time greats.

They both journeyed toward superstardom and all-time greatness on different paths and different expectations. Havlicek was brought up slowly as a 6th man for the then greatest franchise ever. Playing under the leadership of Russell, Red, Cousy etc. And then once Russell retired, John smoothly transitioned into "the guy" in Boston and went on to lead the 74 and 76 Celtics to 2 titles alongside Dave Cowens. Dr. was THE guy, the face, the Ambassador, for both the ABA and eventually the NBA. He was the man and the main attraction almost from day 1 of stepping onto a professional court. That's a different level of pressure and responsibility that I'm not sure Hondo would have handled as well or successfully if he were given the same circumstance. Hondo was a more clutch performer, but all things considered, I think Doc J is ahead slightly.

One thing for sure, Erving had the better highlight reel

Good to see old arenas boston garden spectrum

Havlicek was also an amazing football player who was also drafted by the Cleveland Browns.

This is gonna be great, personally I have Dr.J. But can’t go wrong with Hondo all I need to say is 8-0.

Doc is my favorite player, and I rank him as the 15th greatest player of all time. I’ve got Hondo a spot or two behind him. But, like you, I acknowledge that it’s close and just an opinion. Havlicek has all the credentials. Stats, longevity, winning, team play, defense, intangibles, and clutch. People don’t realize how strong and athletic he was. Not a great leaper, but a beast. Look at those broad shoulders and his endurance! Great analysis, Uncle Hays. I can respect your conclusion. And it really is a hot take. Check out the first video on my new channel. Doc dunking on giants. I’m about to post a video of Doc shooting jumpers. People were commenting that he couldn’t score well outside the paint, so I’ll respond. While he wasn’t a great shooter (inconsistent, as you point out), he was pretty good. You don’t score 30,000 points as a small forward without hitting a helluva lot of jump shots. Thanks for creating this video.

You make some great points havlicek ..i watched him for years destroy my buffslo braves and ny knicks..was better All around.thsn dr j ..he was 8 and 0 in the finals..woukd have won it all in 1973 if he was not hurt he was the real mvp that season..in the early seventies while in his thirties he wss the worlds best player except for kareem...he scored over 30 ,000 points if you count playoff points...the top swingmsn in nba history..and if they hsd threes he would have excelled in that area too..great rebounder and passer..great basketball i q...perrienial all defensive team selection...hit more clutch last second shots than anyone except maybe bird.. and jordan ..hit even more than west.....

People from this time period tend to rate Havlicek very highly. My dad, my late grandpa, my uncle- they all rave about him. It is hard to think about a modern player to even compare him to because the game has changed so much. Pippen/Grant Hill type of guy without the same leaping ability, but definitely athletic.

I would definitely take the doc at his peak over hondo. When Dr. J was on a hot streak he didn't miss, and he could put on the most beautiful display of lethal dunking, jump shooting, and layups.

I love Johnny man underrated

Hondo plays college football. He was drafted in pro football, but went to celtics. He was a terrific physical athlete. People don't know that.

So as someone who knows more about Doc and has him top 12 alltime, is this gonna imply John is top 12 also? Not instantly ignoring because of that but because I didn’t see as much of his. Doc’s defense was always underrated imo and never gets love which makes it hard to compare older players for me. Gonna watch now

Even though I'm a lifelong Celtics fan, I have to give the nod to Dr. J. He was the most electrifying player in basketball for about a decade, and my favorite non-Celtic of all time. That doesn't mean I don't think Hondo was great. He might be the third greatest Celtic, behind Russell and Bird. (Possibly 4th behind Pierce, but that's debatable.) His athleticism is underrated, and his hustle undeniable. But when I was growing up, Dr. J was the epitome of basketball greatness. Great video Uncle Hays. A fun comparison you might try is Elgin Baylor and Dominique Wilkins.

Dr. J is arguably the best dunker I have ever seen .

They is more than basketball to show a athletic a player.

I remember an NBA vs. ABA all star game Dr.j couldnt bring the ball up court who was guarding him HONDO! Havlicek all day🙏

Dr j for me better hondo is great player but dr j is legend

Without even watching this,i was there to see some of this. If i haf to pick one,i would pick Hondo first. The Doctir wad a better player,but Hondo played better defense,was more of a hustler abd never stopped. He was perpetual motion.

DR J IN MY ALL-TIME NBA 🏀 TOP 10 .. THE UNDERRATED JOHN HAVLICEK IS A TOP 20-30 PLAYER ..

👏👏👏🧡

Dr. J my favorite player of all time. I saw him play at Ruckers. I have Hondo over him by a hair.

honestly peak for peak plyer you can't go wrong with either so I don't even feel the need to pick one over the other.....

hondo played 1 preseason for the Cleveland Browns and they said they had never seen such raw talent at WR and the only player faster was Jim Brown. I played with guys who could jump but weren't great raw athletes moving side to side and backwards shuffling their feet and vice versa. Hondo even looks fast at 37 in those clips vs Dr J

I'll go with Dr J. I admired Hondo but Red Auerbach said that his favorite forwards were Bob Pettit, Elgin Baylor, Dr J and Larry Bird. Red didn't know whether to put Hondo at forward or guard.

Dr J was the better player because he would change the emotion of a game.

Dr. J was a 1967 Ferrari 330 P4. Havlicek was a 2006 Honda Accord.

You can include Bobby Jones as a future HoF-er.

Well, first of all, when you're comparing TWO players, it's "greater," not "greatest." And without watching ANY of this, I'll tell you who the greater player was and they called him "Hondo" and he wore #17. Dr. J. had all the street flash and raw athletic power, but Havliceck's versatility and tenacity on the defensive end certainly gives him the edge. I don't think I remember Hondo dunking the ball even once in his 16 year NBA career, but look at his playoff statistics from 1965 through 1975 to see how great he was. He played in an era where they didn't record steals but he surely would have led the NBA more than a few times in his 16 year career if they had. Eight NBA championships, four ALL-NBA first team selections, four second team selections, and let's not forget his NCAA championship at Ohio State in 1960 either. Dr. J. played in the ABA during his prime years and of course was great, but no matter what anyone says, they really didn't play defense and it's not really fair to compare these players anyway. Why not Hondo and Rick Barry (not even close) or Dr. J. vs. Billy Cunningham? Of course Hondo played with the greatest player in NBA history, the immortal "Eagle With a Beard," Bill Russell, so who knows what he would have accomplished had he been the "man" for the first half of his illustrious career? He's still the greatest "6th man" ever and as far as I know the ONLY player in NBA history to be selected as BOTH a guard and a forward to an ALL-NBA first or second team. John was a pretty unique player and we'll not see his likes again.

I'd take either one.

Hondo. Without a doubt..tge doctor was great sldo..a total icon..very close. But hondo by a nose.

Both were spectacular athletes...erving just had better leaping ability

For defensive stats, you didn't count defensive rebounds too ?

Dr. J was one of my favorite players. He was in my five greatest of all time (the others: Wilt Chamberlain, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, LeBron James. Until last year, I replaced Dr. J with Steph Curry because of the championships Steph won compared to Dr. J. Dr. J. was a great impactful player and more of an athlete, but Havlicek won more championships and played a key role in every championship series in which he played. This is like comparing apples to oranges. If championships is the benchmark - the advantage is with Havlicek. Everything else - Dr. J.

Count ABA..DOC in my top 10. Maybe top 5 all time. He was like bird and Jordan. Near unstoppable

I would like to have seen Doc and Wilt together in there prime!! They may have rolled off 3 or 4 maybe 5 chips in a row...

First of all I like that during the video you call Julius Erving just Jay, but you talked about him so much in your videos that it's basically like you know him😁 The comparison between Erving and Havlicek is legitimate, and the latter is probably very underestimated especially because during the Celtics/Russell dynasty and the two titles won by the Celtics in the 70s he was always flanked by other Hall of Famers and MVPs, however I go with the more obvious choice, which is Erving Even though Havlicek was probably a more complete player, capable of playing guard and small forward, and a better clutch player even in the playoffs, Erving was a player ahead of his time, indefensible in the open court and capable of dunking on any opposing player, and although limited by a mediocre jumpshot, he remains one of the very few generational talents in the history of basketball Havlicek absolutely deserves to be in the NBA TOP 75, but Erving is a talent who changed an era of the game George Mikan Bill Russell Wilt Chamberlain Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Julius Erving Larry Bird Magic Johnson Michael Jordan Shaquille O'Neal Tim Duncan Kobe Bryant LeBron James Stephen Curry ..... I don't like making rankings, but these players are the few that I consider above all the others, and Doctor J is one of them🏀

When these two guys guarded each other I usually watched it on tv live and havlicek seemed to outplay erving usually

I have Dr J clearly ahead of Hondo since I include both nba and ABA accomplishments

Hondo was good at basketball. Dr J. CHANGED basketball. I'd love to have either on my team, but I'd take Doc before Hondo.

Dr. J believed that sharing the ball with George McGuiness, Lloyd Free, Darryl Dawkins, Doug Collins, Andrew Toney, Moses Malone, and Charles Barkley would make the team more successful. On an NBA team that needs 30 a night from Doc, it wouldn't have been a problem. The 4th quarter was all J.

Havlicek, by a little

Havlicek West and the Big O precursors to the modern game.

I would put him in the top 25 all time.

This is an interesting argument either way. I'm a Buckeye, but also a Sixers fan ....Doc was better than Hondo. Very interesting... Doc was amazing, but Havilcek was awesome.....I mean it's 50 ~ 50.

Havlicek. He has Long Arms.

Either you are uninformed or you're deliberately trying to be misleading. When Dr. J joined the NBA, the Sixers upper management told him that they did not need him to score 30 points a game. His scoring average dipped in the regular season because his minutes were cut to 35.9 per night. When they reach fled the playoffs, DrJ averaged 42 minutes per night and 30.1 points a game. The same big man and rim protectors couldn't stop him in the playoffs. The shame of it is that DrJ entered his prime when he joined the Sixers only to have his minutes cut.

I watched both of them play live on TV and in person for years and I watched them guard each other.. both are top twenty players or higher of all-time but John havlicek wss a better all around player... I'd take him for my team if I had a choice

I've seen the doctor listed at 6'5

NBA only, the debate is REAL. And both would barely make my top 20. 🙌

Doc is the better player in every aspect Hondo is great and underrated but nah Doc was insane

both great but there's only one Dr.J

Well one could defend and shoot while the other could dunk

John havlicek is amazing, but i personally like dr. j more just because he's more fun for me to watch. He had so much style in every way, and his athleticism was amazing.

You could not be more wrong!!! Dr. J more career points, 4 MVPs Havlicek did not come close, more All Star selections , more All League teams, more blocks and steals. The ABA was a better league than the NBA from 1973-76 so his MVPs meant more. Plus Dr.J was never a 6th man ! Also do your research better as Dr.J was not always a small forward as he played shooting guard for a lot of his last two years

Stats can be overrated. Dr J made a bigger impact overall. If they played today he'd get drafted number 1 overall

Great video. But peak Hondo all day over peak Dr. J. Erving was mostly a one dimensional offensive player. He scored a little more and a little more efficiently but he took easier shots and he didn’t affect the game on offense in as many ways as Hondo did. Hondo was a MUCH better playmaker who made his teammates better. I’d say they are about equal on offense and Honda outclasses Erving on defense by a mile.

8-0 in nba finals even the undertaker is not undefeated anymore give me havlicek career a playoff riser I know juluis erving is great a top 13 all time player to me but I chose havlicek and I'm a laker fan

Hondo was Bird before Bird. Hondo was the 2nd greatest winner in NBA history after Russel.

Havlicek

Havlicek was an all-time great player. It's not who would win a game of one-on-one. It's who would win a game where Hondo and Dr. J matched up with everything else being equal. Even with that, its Dr. J all day.

The Doctor was never a "6th man" . One on one ? Anyone not picking the Doc loses a lot of credibility. Hondo's 4 season peak, 1970 - 1973, saw the Celtic miss the playoffs twice and lose in the 2nd round the other 2 times. He's just not a guy that drives the bus, never any kind of MVP candidate. Havlicek was a career .439 shooter, not a great rebounder and a very similar assist guy as Erving. There wasn't a time that anyone would trade Erving for Havlicek , it's simply ridiculous.

Both sides of the Ball the answer is easier than one might want to admit,,, ITs Hondo, but that doesnt mean J was not better at hondo at some things,,, With that being said most Young people would have us believe That J or Hondo would be bums in todays NBA LOL ,,,

This debate....is about 50 Fiddy as you can get......you like Chocolate ice cream or Vanilla ice cream? Is there a wrong answer here?