Dr. Raymond Perrin - A Proven Neurolymphatic ME/CFS Recovery Method 

that is beautiful

So what he subscribed

@@popokatapetl6995it’s in his books

It’s great to hear story’s like this. I’m giving it a try asap seen as I’ve been suffering since cfs since having covid 4 years ago

Hi very happy for you ! What were your symptoms please ? I am long covid since 2020 and suffering a lot… thanks

How long did it take you?

My thoughts exactly, well done! 💫

…well he didn’t really give her a chance 🤦‍♀️ I couldn’t get through this video listening to this man doing his monologue with the *female* interviewer never getting so much as a brief pause to ask for a clarification or ask a follow up question. 😤

You can't satisfy everyone. There's always somebody that has to complain.

Check out " the open medicine foundation" too. Like any illness , there's many subtypes to this illness even tho they present in similar ways. You could have eds as an underlying pathology and mast cell activation syndrome. But the theory Dr Davies, creator of the human genome has put forward is " the metabolic trap". He thinks it's reversible. This guy is trying to save his very sick son. He was working for standford until ten years. Like I say co creator of the human genome project. A bonified genius. Look him up

Was it?

What Pilates are you doing? Are you attending a class or doing a video at home?

Wow. Were you mild moderate or severe earlier

Glad I could help! 🧡🧡

Steve, I've read both of Dr P's books. The one for patients is good, but the one for practitioners is excellent. See my comments above .

@@valeriesummers9865 thanks for the tip! Just to clarify…if I get the practitioner book will I not need the patient one? Or should I get both?

The book for practitioners covers everything the book for patients covers and goes into much more detail about the anatomy of the brain and lymphatic system. It explains the relationship between parts of the brain and MECFS. So, you don't need both. The YT videos do a good job of explaining the self massage techniques which we are supposed to do every day between visits to the practitioner. If you can't find a practitioner in your area (check his search feature on his website) you might be able to find an osteopath who does cranial treatments and/or a massage therapist who does lymph drainage massage.

@@valeriesummers9865 fab, thanks again

Did it help you. I checked a doctor here and it is very expensive to go. I tried everything earlier, now i have doubts to invest in anything new

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. You’re an inspiration to many of us. How are you doing now? Hoping you’re well 🙏

100% The 'healing' I'm doing is sooooo diverse and it's physical as well as c-ptsd...a lot of trauma in my childhood, recurring and continuous in my adulthood and then the healthcare system left me dying in 2020. I agree. Dead on. Psych between bio (and spiritual).

How many time a week did you have to go for treatments?

@@tonipetersen5314 I was going weekly, then fortnightly, then monthly. I have stopped completely now.

​@@nathalieforster9955 if I don't have access to practioner , what exercises can I do at home

@@kala9907 If you search for Perrin technique self-massage videos on RU-vid there is some good stuff up there to learn the technique.

Glad it was helpful, Tammy! ❤️

How quick have you noticed improvements? How much improvement? Thanks

@@majahorvat7294 actually you feel directly that the stress response goes down like after a massage. But at the end i cannot give you an answer because it depends on every person and the circumstances ( how to be able to get in the safety mode and in the self healing state ). So that is really different. And on top its not just that everyone of us is using a holistic method so you cannot say its that or that ots all together....important is the brain retraining at the same time.

Hi! Wo in Deutschland warst du? Wohne in Köln und suche einen Therapeuten. Danke und liebe Grüße, Alina

@@AlinaHartkopf Ich gehe in Berlin. Man findet die Praktizierenden über die Perrin Seite. Es gibt aber auch welche, die dort nicht eingetragen sind. Also einfach ganz viel googlen "Perrin Technik". Alles Gute

I believe it. I had "fibrous" lumps in both breasts and quit wearing a bra. Within 2 1/2 days, the not-so-fibrous lumps were gone, because my lymph system could work. That was 15 years ago. Kudos on coming up with a fun option to replace a rebounder! lol

@@pixievincent2478 wow that happened so fast for you, amazing! Haha thanks xx

@@valentinaruseva7612 good for you, so worth trying natural alternatives.

I’m not laughing

Same. The Chicago area would benefit me as well.

Does he do this where in uk

Hi Toonasa, how long did you suffer from it, and what has helped you?

@@GuleidMuse-vg6db I had chronic fatigue for a long time (I was anemic and chronically stressed) but I was really sick for a couple years, and it ranged from mild to moderate CFS. I found nervous system regulation strategies helpful (like EFT/tapping, somatic exercise), supplementing vitamin B1, and low dose naltrexone. I still have fatigue but I'm much more functional now and I see it as a symptom of the survival "freeze" response. I'm now working with a somatic practitioner to heal my nervous system. For me, being sick happened because I have a back up of stored trauma and chronic stress, which affects my immunity. So whenever I was exposed to a virus, my system crashed hard. Low dose naltrexone, which I still take, has supported my immunity a lot.

You are so lucky to have access to a wonderful and properly trained osteopath. So happy to hear of your progress!! x

I too have the flat back. So question,, does/will the flat back eventually go back to a curved back after treatment?

@@roonbooks3227 I'm not a medical professional so I can't say. But I doubt the back would regain the curve. The purpose of the Perrin Technique is to drain "stuck" lymph out of the brain and spinal column and it seems to me that wouldn't affect the skeletal system. Perrin doesn't claim that the flat back is a cause of MECFS, but only that he has noticed a correlation.

@@roonbooks3227 the flat back is due to hypomobility mist people with CFS fybromyalgia have Asperger's or ADHD OCD and hypomobility fhtmr gene.i fit it all

@@Truerealism747 Tom, I'm compiling a bibliography of research papers that show how MECFS patients have significant differences from the controls in the research projects. Would you please give me documentation or citations for your statements that "mist people with CFS..." have Asperger's or ADHD, etc. I'd like to add them to my list. Thanks!

@@valeriesummers9865 it even comes up in Google type in search bar takes you to it with ADHD to.been told by rhumotoligist to basically we can't absorb b vitamins and cannot stand stress

Glad you enjoyed it!

Ps. Around this time I had a motorbike accident..I was hit by a car (their fault). I wonder if that knocked out my spine which started all this? I have recently started seeing a very competent massage therapist who said that my back was twisted..and she said there is a problem..more resolved but not fully yet in the part of my back between the shoulder blades.

@@valentinaruseva7612 that's a really helpful perspective, thank you

@@valentinaruseva7612 Bingo. x

Interesting! Fact is that when I do a CE i get fast relief of both pain, fatigue and anxiety..and wondered the same after listening to this. I will book a session w a trained osteopath...happy to have found one in my town!!

The Perrin Clinic in Manchester, but there are practitioners in Europe too.

It could very well be that this is but one of many mechanisms that are dysfunctional and it could be that just a certain percentage of people who have it. It’s also just a theory, so he can also still be proven wrong. But assuming what he says does indeed play a role in ME/CFS and long covid, it could very well be that the body can learn to restore these mechanisms. Ultimately it is a matter of the right hormones and the right neurotransmitters being produced in the right quantities, the right nerves being addressed, etc.

Yeah it seems there are several reasons for people having cfs. Maybe those who have this biomechanical issue are not healing at the same rate than those with problems with their symphatetic nervous system. There are lots of techniques (brain retraining) for overactive nervous system out there: DNRS, Gupta, ANS rewire, lighting process etc. So it makes sense that people who have these issues are getting better. Maybe the ones with biomechanical issues are not finding the help they need and because of this are not present in Raelan's channel. This Perrin technique is something I hadn't heard of before and I have been struggling with fatique for 8 years and studying the field a lot. Definitely got me interested because I've injured my neck and lower back multiple times through my life. Also have tried 4 different brain retraining techniques without complete resolution of symptoms (though never over 2 months in a row so maybe consistency is my problem also.) Next step for me is to try the Perrin technique and also consistent brain retraining for 6 months in a row. Lets see how it goes :)

You don't have to fix the spine to get rid of toxins in the lymphatic system. It's my guess from the testimonies I hear that anything that clears the lymphatic system of toxins, such as rebalancing the microbiome or doing keto or carnivore to eliminate inflammation, can help recovery. I've read his book and the issue is that the lymphatic system can't drain away the toxins and they're constantly recycling and causing inflammation. I may have to read it again, but that's what I remember 🙂

@@joniaikio4344 I like Gupta. I just have to make myself do it.

@@joniaikio4344 If you’ve hurt your neck and have ME, check something called craniocervical instability. Jennifer Brea from the famous ME documentary Unrest has been cured from severe ME after a surgery for craniocervical instability I believe in 2019. You can just google and you’ll find it. I also suffer from ME for the past 9 years, and just came to remember that I had a whiplash in a car accident some time before the onset of symptoms. The only symptom I had at the moment of the accident was intense pain at the back of my head, which I had on and off after the accident, but never visited the doctor. I have now booked the neurologist apointment to do some scans and see if there is some dammage. Whiplashes can cause ligaments to become loose, so the spine is not held by them correctly and it presses the vagus nerve which causes dysautonomia (ME)

The trampoline apparently not - at least not until you're got the reverse flow of lymph addressed.

Yes this fits perfectly with Ray's theory. See his interview with Ari Whitten if you have time.

Check on his website, you can find all the pratictioners

interestingly, she has a syrinx in her thoracic spine....as well as vTOS so that system is blocked if her arm is raised at all.

Ottawa, ON Canada needs someone please!!!

Yes, the disease mechanisms hypothesised by Dr Perrin could certainly cause POTS - sadly all too common in ME. (I struggle with the complexities, but can recommend ‘The Perrin Technique’ second edition book.)

@@katebehrend9783 Thank you - yes I got the 2nd edition patient handbook and we are starting the Perrin Technique but the only person around who does it is over 400km away. It is an exhausting drive!

Dr Perrin's theory is that the massage helps to drain toxins out of the lymphatic system. Anything that gets rid of toxins from the body will, arguably, work - that could be anti-inflammatory diets, anti-virals, balancing the microbiome, restoring the immune system. There's more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. xx

@@lauratabacchini6324 hello 🙂. I read his book and I think the mechanical manipulation of the spine was to get the lymph flowing. I could be wrong. I know 2 people who recovered with his technique but it did take over a year for one of them. I could only afford the treatment for 3 months and I didn't improve. Have you heard of Jennifer Brea? She had ME/CFS but recovered after an operation on her spine. I don't know the science but I think it was something to do with how the lymph flows, I could be wrong. Worth researching. Best wishes :-)

Many ppl with MECFS have 'non restorative sleep' because we don't get enough slow wave delta sleep which is when the brain clears out the gunk it has accumulated during the day. So, we are more likely to need help getting the glymphatic system working properly, which is what Perrin's technique helps with.

@@marisademore468 how many times a week do you have to go?

@@tonipetersen5314 the 2 women I knew who recovered with the Perrin technique went for a massage once a week but had to self massage daily if possible. One lady explained the technique to her older children and they did her back for her. The younger lady who hadn't been ill for long recovered within months. The older lady recovered within 2 years. I spoke to Dr Perrin on the phone and he said the technique wasn't as successful in people who'd had the condition for a very long time. I only went for a massage once a fortnight due to costs and didn't want to keep paying for something which didn't guarantee success. I was also too weak to self massage daily. The technique is pretty simple. The masseur gently strokes over your skin, on your legs, arms, chest and back in an upward motion towards the lymph glands on your upper chest near your armpits. The massage direction on your head and face goes downwards towards your heart. The idea is to help all the lymph fluid drain into your heart for excretion. It didn't help me but as I say, I couldn't afford to try it for long. I have days now where I'm 40-50% better on d-ribose, high dose vit B1 and serotone, along with all the methyl B's, plus B12 and folate. I pop a carnitine pill now and then and low dose NAC all for supporting the methylation cycle and I'm the strongest I've felt in 3 years. I'm not fully recovered but I'm not sofa-bound 24/7 which is fantastic. Good health to you. Hope you find a remedy that works for you ☺️

No. I tried it for many months and it didn't work but I know a couple of people for whom it has been the miracle cure.

Do you have hypomobility?

@Tom Sale I wouldn't say so! I've got a history of the opposite in certain parts of my body but now I have the typical CFS fatigue, tightness and ongoing niggles/injuries

@@ellam128 where is your worst pain mines upper body ime sure thyroid has something to do with it check out Dr Sarah myhill I've had CFS before fybromyalgia

@@ellam128 or is it still me

Dr. Perrin’s book for patients details the step by step lymph drainage method to be done daily. You can also find videos demonstrating it.

​@@marychamberlin2599thanks. Have you had an experience with it?

Please be patient with my “wandering” answer! There are so many pieces to my puzzle! I have a very small amount of experience so far with doing the at home lymphatic massage consistently. After I ran across Dr. Perrin, I ordered both his book for the patient and the practitioner. Honestly, I prefer the one for the practitioner, even though there is information in it that is over my head. Unfortunately there are no practitioners in my area (US Midwest). So, so far I am only doing the at home self massage. (My daughter is a Physical Therapist. I am hoping at some point to see if it would be possible to bring Dr. Perrin to the Chicago area to teach her and others in this area.) I most definitely have the lymphatic varicose “veins” that he describes. I believe that they are not as bad as before and have shown slight improvement, even though I have been inconsistent. In his book he talks of going very slowly because when you do this you are dumping out toxins. You don’t want to dump a lot all at once or you will feel really unwell. I also have the flat thoracic spine he talked about. (My daughter had mono as an adult with lingering symptoms. When she tried the self massage with me only once, the next day she felt unwell. That tells me it was effective in dumping out toxins!) I should say that I have mild to moderate (self diagnosed) CFS/ME. Doctors always brushed off my insistence that I was unwell, probably especially since I could participate in life to a degree. One doctor responding to “I always am sick and catch every cold etc” by saying that my immune system must be doing it’s job since I never came in for antibiotics for my illnesses! I limped along to for 25+ years just thinking I had a poor immune system until I ran across the term “post exertional malaise”. That was a game changer for me! Now I had something solid to research. That led me to a forum where I ran across discussion on whether there was a structural component to some people’s ME/CFS. I have a “military” neck -meaning straight - instead of correct curvature, along with the flat thoracic spine. I had two different motor vehicle accidents at 18. Then in my twenties had major stress where my body ran on adrenaline for a year and half. Then after that I caught every flu etc. I would say that is when my body couldn’t manage anymore and broke down. It makes sense to me that the reason my body doesn’t seem to drain the lymphatic properly from the brain is because of the structural issues in my neck and back. Therefore, I am doing prolotherapy in an attempt to tighten lax ligaments in my neck. (There is so much more I could say about prolotherapy and that process!) I have added daily bone broth to my diet to attempt to improve tendon/ligament health. And then the lymphatic massage to continue to slowly reduce the toxic build up in the brain. Whew! Sorry that was a lot more than you asked for! It’s is just that I am so excited that I might be finally on the right track!

I've had four treatments so far. The exercises as shown on the YT videos are the same ones my practitioner uses on me and the ones I'm supposed to do at home on my own. Only, I can't easily reach my back, so I skip that one.

@@valeriesummers9865 I do the back ones with a long handled lymph brush. It may not be ideal but is better than nothing. I can’t remember for sure but I may have gotten that idea from the book. How have you been feeling? Do you feel worse for a bit after a session? Do you fit the “flat thoracic” spine? Can you feel the lymphatic varicose “veins”?

I have read the entire long version of his book through once and gone back and reread other portions multiple times. When you read his book he states that 15% of people using his methods fully recovered using this technique alone, while the for the rest it is used in conjunction with other “pieces of the puzzle”.

@@marychamberlin2599 That sounds great. Though it's rather different from being a proven recovery method, like this video says.

@@neron8497 If you were one of the 15% that fully recovered using this method alone, I imagine you would consider it a proven method. In science you have the double blind studies which most consider the gold standard, then you have individual case studies. Both have their value. For me, at this point, I don’t have the option of spending money on a practitioner as there are none in my area. So the only outlay of dollars is buying the book. So trying lymphatic massage costs me nothing else but time invested. I like that it certainly is not going to harm me even if it I try it and it doesn’t help!

@@marychamberlin2599 Certainly! If those people have been able to recover just with this method, that's fantastic and I agree with the wording there. It's just the way this video title is worded that suggest a larger percentage of people it'd apply to. But that is separate from the good that is there. In your case, I hope you are one of the people for whom this truly works. Wish you the best of luck.

I would highly recommend that you read his work and actually listen to this episode before you make an ignorant comment like this.

@@KatySimpsonLive I watched the full episode and have his book (which I've read) sitting opposite me on my bookshelves. Perhaps you can engage with my arguments instead of writing rubbish about me.

Drop your Twitter handle and we can have an open discussion about Perrin's ideas.

The germ theory, pellagra being caused by a niacin deficiency, mosquitos being the vector for yellow fever and malaria....these are just a few examples of medical hypotheses that turned out to be true. I doubt that "most doctors" think he is talking absolute nonsense because most doctors have never heard of his treatments.

I tried the Perrin Technique 10 years ago. I had a personal consultation with him. I found it exhausting to do at home - ice packs, massage and hot pads three tines a day. I didnt have the energy to do all that. I couldnt do the spinal massage as I lived on my own. It was also very expensive. I think there is something in it and it might help some people but I wasnt able to continue with it.

Don't forget most medicine is placebo fact the same

Duuh there is no insentive for research because there is no money in it

@@GuleidMuse-vg6db correct though Goya be away for us to recover