Do not lose the oil line, it equalizes your oil pressure. Imagine watering your garden with lots of sprinklers off a manifold they will all lose pressure at their end but if you have a tee at the bottom of your tap make a circle off one end of the tee through your garden with all of your sprinklers then return back to the tee they will all have equal pressure. A good thing. love your work, love and regards from Australia
Too right. Remember liquid ain't compressible. Hydraulic forces look for a leak. My infantile understanding is, such a set up will increase pressure throughout the system. Having stated such, I am nothing and will blow away with the dust!!
Thanks for watching. Funny thing is, I have same combo without it and never had any bearing issues. But not messing with it now. I’m glad you enjoy my channel. Please share with your mates. 🇦🇺👍👍
Tim, Another Great video. Keep the front to rear oil line, IT works. When I was racing the 351Cleveland on the dirt tracks, I would pull the engine apart mid-season to freshen it up, before I added the F to R oil line I would see significant wear on the rod & main bearings in the back of the engine compared to the front. Sometimes really bad wear all the way to the copper, when the fronts showed normal wear. After putting on a 1/2" oil line to the rear of the block, front and rear bearing wear was equal F to R. I would also use 2 oil pressure gauges when I first fired an engine to run in the cam, one in front & one in back, without the added oil line there was a difference in oil pressure F to R, this was at 2000 to 3000 rpm. The first time I saw that difference I had the genius Idea of putting an oil line F to R, And then I found out I wasn't the first guy to think of it. Oh Well. It works. The inside of your motor looks great, sorry it broke and I'm also happy for you that it wasn't any worse. Love that FORD-427-SOHC and that rare BOSS 302, super cool!
That’s what I’m talking about. Can’t remember if I had answered this. So many comments and emails. 😳 trying to catch up. I have never used this front to rear line before and had no bearing issues. 5 years of 78-7900 shifts never bearing issues. Cracked block /!: Cylinder yes. Not changing anything now.
Interesting comment. There's a difference in wear on the bearings if you are running an automatic and a stick car. And if you are running a belt, alternator, too. I'm like you, gotta take the engine apart and inspect. I recently came across two Cleveland engines. Both had some miles on them. I've always had a question whether to run a fully groved main bearing, like on a 427 FE, on a Cleveland or not. Upon dismantling and inspection, one of the engines had clevite fully groved main bearings. The middle thrust bearing took the most hit and wear.. In a high mileage built engine, I don't think I would use those bearings, but I may in a racing engine I'm going to take apart and freshen up after a few runs.
Manual transmission for 4 years, A/T for 7 years. No alternator, belt driven water pump only. Used clevite 77 bearings, full groove. I would not recommend full grooved bearings on a street car, unless it is a weekend warrior with limited use. IMO. Of course there is a difference between Drag engines and Circle Track engines in regard to bearing wear. My experience was back in the 1980s and 1990s. Today is a different world for racers. Just sharing what I learned and experienced back then in regards to racing the 351 Cleveland on the dirt tracks.
Great video...thanks for sharing all the Cleveland wisdom from yourself and Bob. When I was a Jr. in H.S. in '74 I bought a repossessed and slightly wrecked (driver door and cosmetic damage on the driver front fender, both of which me and my best friend quickly replaced/fixed) '70 Mustang Mach I w/Cleveland 4V w/close ratio top loader. I knew my Dad, who was a Rocket Engineer at Cape Canaveral, was an old Ford guy who used to race chevy's so I asked if him if we could hot rod the engine and I showed him a period Hot Rod magazine article about how with just intake, headers, a cam and a big carb this engine would make 445 HP. He said why don't we rebuild the engine and I'll show you how to blueprint an engine. So we went thru the blueprint process and I learned how to use a micrometer and we had it align bored and balanced. Along the way we converted it to solid mushroom lifters/cam and forged pistons .10 over, with a compression ratio of 11.75:1. Edelbrock intake, hooker headers, a big Isky cam and a Holley 1180 double pumper with mech secondaries. The engine Dyno'd at 525 HP and I had the fastest car in Titusville Florida as a Jr./Sr. in HS.
Steve, I love hearing stories like this. It reminds me of when my dad and I built my first Cleveland when I was 16, I have been recorded the first start up on a cassette. I probably still have it. I bet that things was a monster with a stick. I appreciate you watching my channel. I’m glad I can help you remember the best times of life.cant wait to get wife’s 69 finished. Saving for a GForce 4 speed.
I had a 70 stang coupe with the same engine and all I did was add a holley carb and tune it on the oscilloscope at school autoshop. I never lost a race until racing a 71 stang, I did a 6000rpm neutral drop C6 automatic and blew both head gaskets. It obliterated the tires. After all the smoke cleared there was a trail of oil and antifreeze about 300ft long 😂. Ahhh good times. I remember even at 120mph it would still be pulling. One hell of a motor for sure.
@DragBoss351Cleveland thanks for your story, yes us teens did some crazy stuff, like the time my Childhood Friend dared someone 🙄to run across the dragstrip where the timing lights were as the 220mph funny cars launched. Who in they're right mind would do such a stupid thing 🤪😂. Anyway can't wait to see the big kitty back in action. Oh almost forgot to mention, I am still pinching myself. I actually had a conversation with Brittany Force yesterday, she is such a sweetheart and daredevil combination 😄 Her Father has a new driver taking his place. They are such wonderful people. Anyway true blue Ford power baby yeh!! God bless
@iggyfritz7150 wow Iggy, you got it going on. Congrats. Yes sir, I understand all about that, things that were a good idea at the time, but… you know the rest of the story.
So glad to see you are surrounded by the best in the business. Kitty will have a real serious attitude when she returns 😂 If I had the money I would love to buy that boss 302. Perfect motor for a street driver. I once rode in one and I fell in love. Whoever thought of Cleveland heads on a 302 block was a genius.
Hey Tim,good to see your travelling well.. Just a thought, i don't know for sure, but maybe BAM can rebuild your Crane Lifters, upgrade to the Bronze Bush.. new axles and wheels... No harm in Calling and finding out......We use a lot of BAM in Australia, they are proving to be very good, ISKY red zone bush, Top Quality as well....
That’s what I needed to hear. I think I will call Bam and see what he says. Maybe sponsor me and a live chat. I like those old cranes, maybe they can rebuild. Thanks 🇦🇺
Just to say, from previous video and this one, his pump was not the issue, the sump held a ton of oil, his filter was always spotless, great oil pressure, the drive shaft was spot on...... All he needs is a New Pick Up with Proper Bracing, a bracket holding it into the pump, try and avoid the big weld, a couple of small tacks...IMO..
Enjoyed the video Tim! I cringed a bit when he was using his favorite ferrous hammer to tap on engine parts. I would be using brass or plastic but i know he's been doing this work.for most of his life. Hope everything turns out well Tim!
Tim you are always going to remember him and when he goes you are going to walk into that shop and its gonna kill you, he reminds me of my dads garage, everything was everywhere, he knew where everything was but only he knew and he moves like my dad did, stiff but direct, dont leave anything on the floor for him to fall over, he breaks easily hes not limber like we are.
Short description for those who have never transported and engine. Assuming you don't have an engine cradle/mount for the block, I have a cheap trick for transport. Find a used pallet that was used to stack concrete bags and an old 31" or 33" truck tire. Screw the tire down flat to the face of the pallet from the inside of the tire. It becomes the block cradle. Next find a piece of industrial, used, close weave carpet as big as the pallet plus a little more. Put the carpet fancy side down in the truck bed. Next the pallet/tire. Next the engine block assembly. Now is the time to cover the engine if you have a long drive with a tarp or plastic if you have the chance of rain. Ratchet it down to the pallet. Slide the assembly over the axle of the pickup. Ratchet the whole thing to the bed and good to go.
Good idea. The dang cradle was only 25 bucks 20 years ago. Paid for itself multiple times over. Smaller than a pallet. If it works roll with it, thanks for sharing with my subs.
It takes an "eye" like Bob's, to say "the rings are not even seated yet" ! The field tech, for Trw years ago, showed me what too look for. Good too see the engine going back together, and the support from suppliers. I will support Total Seal, and Molnar.
Right on John. He cleaned up rods and said I could reuse them. Better wait in that. Use them for another build. He said could even reuse rings and dingle ball a bit.
You can use the cometic gaskets until the black between cylinders is coming off. A little is ok. Ive used them for 5 years on a 2,000hp nitrous BBF that got freshend up every winter.
Wow. I guess after a few times, not worth the money or time after that. Hate to reuse and get water or oil leak. So much work to replace. That is a nasty BBf. Thanks
Much to say. But not now. All good though. For now, "Cleveland." "We built this city on rock and roll" and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has its home there. Fitting. Just as significant, the Ford Cleveland engine was born there. DragBoss, Bob Beach and other contributors will see to it that this Cleveland will once again, Rock and Roll. Count on it!
@@DragBoss351Cleveland You'll be proud to say, 🎶"We built this Cleveland, We built this Cleveland to Rock an' Roll."🎶 and... 🎶The Heart of Rock an' Roll is in Cleveland...🎶🙂
I'd put money on that crank has lots of cracks in it from heat. And id be really surprised if it cleans up .010 under. I hope I'm wrong but when they're discolored like that they typically have tons of small horizontal cracks.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I saw it sitting on the floor there the other day. I buy all my sunnen mandrels from him. I needed one to hone some T&D rockers out. Adney is a good dude.
3 min. in it looked like you was giving your Cleveland some sweet love!.......KIDDING!....Didn't know you were local. I was born & raised in Klumbis, Ahia!......DBG rules......Accept no substitutes!
What's the Stone setup on something like this? I have been going to a few different machine shops lately and this new shop says he doesn't hone past 320 because everybody complains about the plateau hone? The other shop say you need it up to 400-600-800 turbo street engine and strictly race engine up to 1200?
David. No idea on that. Bob is old school, I was thinking he will just run a 320 a couple of passes. Don’t want to remove and more wall. Have to ask him next time I speak with him
You should always take oil pan off the way its faces on the engine. So you can look at rings, pistons, bores for oil, oil between rings etc. Everything should be nice and dry. When you take pan off upside down you can't look to see if a cylinder has a potential issue making you look farther for a problem. Lose ring tension, wrong back clearance, ring land that pins too big etc.
Never thought about it. But what are you going to see, how are you going to evaluate rings, and pistons with them in the cylinders? What does it matter if pan comes off right side down or not? In this case, wanted to see the issue initially, oil pump pick up.
HI TIM , GREAT video , still sad you had to do this teardown due to oil pump pickup , I don t know BOB BEACH HOWEVER , there are a few guys left at his age who have built engines for some very FAMOUS racers , back in the day and presently. I guess you are lucky in him helping you in your rebuild. Can you please let me and others know where you got the extra oil line ? I warched your video when you installed it but forgot the name of the company. I will be pulling the heads on my 1970 cleveland 351 closed chamber heads this week. The engine was built by 1 of the old timers who is still at it. GOOD LUCK and TY
Nice hat . Who would of thought John Deere is moving to Mexico to join General motors down there. Not going to be many jobs unless you want to help Raytheon build BB om bombs.
2 questions has that block been filled it looks like it to strengthen the cylinder's? tops of the pistons drilled to gas port were you having issues with sealing and hence the new ring packs?
In 2013 we first built the engine. I rented a room nearby. I went everyday for a week to his shop. Taught me a lot and built the original engine together. Those were the days. Bob is soft spoken, you got to listen, he does not repeat himself very often.
Arrow engine parts Australia have manufactured an aftermarket Cleveland block that has redesigned true mains priority oil system with a lot of other updated features it's worth checking out
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I've been using a lot of BAM lifters for the past 2 years. If you're wanting to try something new, I'd go with them. Let me know if you want a set. He sells to engine builders only.
Right on Brent. Talked with them today. I never knew Brad worked for crane, and initially used the crane ultra pro for design basis. They don’t do the grove down the side like ultra pro. Cannot know everyone’s lifter bore condition. Add if you want. I am going to send my current crane ultra pro in too freshen up. Use in another build. I have only heard good things about isky too.
Reher Morrison say this is not accurate because the force to open is returned when the valves close, turn a engine buy hand with the plugs out you will feel it return the energy
This may help, if you missed it. DBG: Let's See The Damage: No Oil Pressure, In 769 HP 409ci Ford 351 Cleveland= ET 9.37 Result: Fail ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--Ez2tnZZric.html
@@DragBoss351ClevelandVIN should be stamped on upper rear of block directly below drivers side cylinder head. Front of block should have Factory Assembly Date stamp. Block casting number will be where starter mounts. No stamps would indicate a service block. Every 302 block will have a casting number. 😊
Yes there is a machine pad, but only one letter that I can read. Never saw any other numbers. I will have to chat with the Master on that one. Always got the low down on Boss power brother. Block 6015-GO OE 12 May 12 1970
@@DragBoss351ClevelandVIN should be stamped just below drivers cylinder head rear of block. Not below rear of intake where you saw "D." Date code and casting is good indicator. 👍 Boss 302 service blocks are D1 6015
@@jesse75 D1-6015 Boss 302 service block would not have VIN. C9-6015 and D0-6015 Boss 302 blocks are factory production line blocks and should have VINs. Ford did make errors though. Some factory-line blocks were mis-stamped and some weren't stamped at all.
Timothy oil pickup at the broke that thing would have lasted forever wouldn't it it was built good hate it for you man but that somebody else's fault not yours
You know that was my plan. My builder said rods are fine. New bolts. Crank at performance crank in Michigan. Be like new. New pick up and pan from stefs. Rolling with it. Keep the faith.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland If the rods have color in them? myself, I'd just buy new. Rod bolts are $250.00 ish, least that what I paid for K-1's from summit four years ago. You know the drill, they're molested now... you can make do with them, but they'll never be the same as when you originally built that monster. Bolts are $250.00 off a new set of rods, that's how I look at it. Those rods would always be in the back of my mind, no doubt you have a skilled professional in the machine shop, they usually know best. Got a guy here just like him, what he says about engines is considered as if it were carved in stone. In the rebuild mode here too. Doin a 520C/I in a 9.800 deck height BBC here, waitin on the balance job. 2 x4's atop a 4.375 stroke 4.350 bore lower end. 2800lb car & driver. I'll be following the build. "God Speed, Drag Boss & Company"
@Nobody-ld7mk I get it. I can get new rods for probably double that. I guess it something I want to prove. If I can get it back together and go a 9.2x then done with that engine. Run it until my 427 aluminum cleveland finished. Your build sounds killer nasty. I can only imagine what it is like to have a TR and 2 4s. Someday soon for me. Keep me posted on that build. Sounds like 8s to me. Thanks for watching my channel Nobody. DB.
@Nobody-ld7mk molnar will take care of new crank and rods, will still probably get them for another build. But, tough to explain, but this engine was a special build. This is the Last engine he ever built, by my engine mentor. He died before we finished, where a lot of this content comes from. He was a Chevy guy, just funny how the ci came out to 409. But I want to see how performance changes after only bearings, and new oil pan pick up. Keep the faith and full steam ahead.
