this arc is really weird it has some really awesome episodes and some fucking bad ones... but in general I quite enjoyed it... except for the damn stupid ending.
As if Goku Black could ever love a *ningen.* On a more serious note, I remember Plague of Gripes making a video about why the timelines don't work, though it got removed from RU-vid from all indication. Any chance you'll collaborate with him for yours?
I still wish Trunks stayed in the regular timeline so that way he could’ve been apart of the TOP. Would’ve gave the whole universe dying an actual purpose.
It still kinda does in a "I'm still not sure if it's actually canon" sort of way. It can be kinda implied that it was after this in the new universe he was sent to, that Trunks meet the Supreme Kai of Time. It however doesn't explain what happens to Mai....so I don't know. I'll admit I'm grasping at straws here.
@Blizzard Flame Because it actually gives a reason for the arc to exist: Trunks in the Tournament. Its kinda the same deal with the ToP validating RoF.
@Blizzard Flame it would give the writers a plausible excuse why they allowed Trunks timeline to be erased. So that he had no other choice but to remain in the present and help save the Z Fighters' universe since he failed to save his own. It's like, "we really want Trunks to be in the ToP but in a way that makes sense. Oh why not have his future completely gone!" Instead of sending him to another timeline, which just makes the entire goku black arc seem pointless
Better option imo. Send Trunks and Mai to the timeline Cell came from, since presumably that timeline had no Buu or Goku Black, it lacks a Trunks, and Bulma is still alive. They could even give some explanation for there not being a Mai in that timeline, or have the one from Trunks timeline die at some point.
@@wolf10alpha68 Characters that existed will still exist in that timeline. He'll have to once again kill Babadi and Dabura since that time's Trunks was unable to but since Goku Black was already outside that timeline from the get go.....he won't have to worry about that again. Mai would naturally exist in that timeline but it would be a simple matter to either kill her off (as one of the off-screen victims to Cell prior to him killing Trunks) or since Goku Black incident will never happen make it so that the two Mai never meet. Other than those, that suggestion works great. Personally though, the two deserve a timeline that's not coming back from the brink of destruction....just not the way the anime went about it.
The author was like: " I'm lacking ideas for an arc so I'm gonna rip off that one Sonic game and change some tiny details so that it doesn't make it so obvious"
This perfectly sums up my feelings on this arc. Cool mystery and storytelling at the beginning, still (somehow) really enjoyable, yet sabotaged by horrible plot contrivances and tropes. It was still a fun arc and the potential was MASSIVE, but man they butchered so much of this by the end. It's actually frustrating how many bad decisions they made. - One too many trips to the past - Absolutely convoluted time travel explanations - why didn't they just have Trunks be the one who changed history? Implying that Beerus is the one who changed everything creates a dozen unnecessary paradoxes. For instance, it's never explained how the Zamasu who became Goku Black ever made it through his timeline WITHOUT being killed by Beerus if his history was basically the same as the one we see play out. - Countless times Goku, Trunks and Goku Black got way stronger simply because they wanted to. You can have characters get "rage boosts", but you have to use that plot device sparingly. What ends up happening is that any sense of power scaling is no longer grounded. You lose feeling on who is the strongest because any one character could just "decide" to become the strongest for no real reason. - Goku forgetting something was already a dumb plot device, but doing it TWICE? - Characters just learning new forms and techniques out of nowhere is also a ridiculous trope that needs to be used sparingly but wasn't... - WHY oh WHY did they not just have Trunks use his spirit sword to cut off Zamasu's time ring? Beerus said that he should have theoretically erased Goku Black's history and therefor Goku Black should have ceased to exist but was protected by the time ring.... Removing the time ring from his hand would have been a perfect way to defeat an immortal enemy without this convoluted "Zamasu fuses with the universe" ending. You also don't have Trunks magically become all-powerful after absorbing energy from like 50 humans that way. - Literal deus ex machina ending with Zeno coming down and erasing everything... Enough said. - I don't mind that the heroes didn't WIN for once - but the consolation prize of having Trunks live with a duplicate of himself is just a god awful ending. There were about a thousand simple choices they could have made to clean up this entire arc. It's baffling.
the vegito earrings are a plot hole to 3 things that do happen in super. So new rule is supposed to be: A fusion of non-kaioshins lasts 1 hour. 1- in the BoG arc, Whis says super saiyan god is the equivalent of a kaioshin, therefore, the fusion should be eternal, the non-kaioshin part doesn't matter 2- Gowasu before jumping to the future of the Babari race tells Zamasu that wearing the earrings promotes you to a kaioshin anyway, so again, doesn't matter 3- the ENTIRE POINT of whis' training in FnF (that weird hyperbolic time chambery dimension) was to not let ssj blue have ki seep out, mirroring the cell saga with ssj and thus making it as if it's their normal form. Therefore, there shouldn't have been ANY reduction to vegito's time limit 4- bonus 1: Fused Zamasu is part mortal, so he should probably defuse too? 5- bonus 2: It makes absolutely 0 sense whatsoever that old kai wouldn't have known about this 6- bonus 3: When Kefla is defeated in ToP, it's HEAVILY implied that they defuse because the earrings were destroyed, thus making the entire thing pointless yet again, because it could've just been that all along and Zamasu could know this, focus on destroying vegito's earrings and foil their plans in a natural, believable way. in short, that decision even if you can somehow mental gymnastic your way around it is completely nonsensical and dumb. Especially considering vegito does absolutely nothing to drive the plot forward, he just has a cool fight scene and defuses. The arc would've been the exact same without that part of the episode. Conclusion: vegito was purely there for merchendise and hype, is at worst a combo of 3 plot holes and at best a monumentally retarded choice that actively hurts the arc. It's inexcusable
"purely there for merchandise and hype" even tho i enjoyed Super, that's an accurate description. I like some of the elements that Toriyama came up with, but the writers at Toei did stuff with the franchise you simply just can't revert anymore. My 12 year old little brother did mental gymnastics during the Black arc and TOP, and could not make ANY sense of most things that happened on screen. (we watched DB > DBZ > DBS). he even got irritated with some of the exposition episodes during the Black arc, about timelines and time travel nonsense, we both just had a mindfuck and it was so annoying. because at the end it didn't make any sense! add all of your points to it, and you have terrible excecution: the show.
@@crowofjudgement4718 there was also a time in the cell arc when bulma said to her "I'm meeting up with my son" Her ma opened her eyes as a what the fuck
There's no logical reason Trunks and Mai didn't stay in the present timeline. The timeline they went to already had them, the present timeline did not, and Future Trunks being added to the Z-Fighters roster would've been legendary.
Could you imagine if trunks was in the TOP? That would've been awesome. He would be really interesting to see, specially because he has no god powers but can still grow by mastering other transformations
It would make the roster for the ToP too Saiyan for my taste. It's already overwhelmingly human. Also, Freeza would probably implode from sheer anger. AND figure out about time-travel. AND figure out that present Trunks is Future Trunks. This is all knowledge I wouldn't want Freeza to have on any capacity.
I really hate how they've massacred Goku's character for no reason. Compare Namek-Android Saga Goku to any of this. The kissing dialogue from Goku was just unnecessary.
@@theavatar9191 It's extremely out of character for him. Goku is 40-something around this time, not a man-child. He has had years of fighting experience, and he has shown his maturity countless times in DBZ, so it just makes no sense to ruin his character like that.
Cue all Goku haters saying "this is what Goku ALWAYS was in Toriyama's vision", probably dropping the infamous quote when he said he wanted people to think he wasn't a good guy at all. fml
@@warwick802 not only that, we're talking about a goku that was actually very smart when it comes to fighting and was average in term of actual inteligence and they're trying to say that this 40 year old genius fighter who was able to tutor Gohan even more effectively than Vegeta taught Trunks doesnt know what a kiss is is just pure BS
Ummm i don't think we watched the same show Literally everyone but goku got development even frieza And super did have a story but you just chose to ignore it Logical consistency ? Z has had its problems with it too so why are you only nit picking towards super? If you are trying too say super is a cash grab then thats a you problem because it was more than just fanservice and the fact you watched it till the end proves it
@@SonGoku-777 I'm not gonna go as far as to say that Super only existed for fanservice and merch, but on the whole it just fails as a continuation of Z for me. Z is not a flawless series, but IMHO it's way more well thought out in it's overall pacing, story and character development than Super is. And considering that Akira Toriyama basically made up Z's plot on the run that's kinda embarassing for Super. Saying that Super did have no Character development at all is certainly false (I love Freeza in Super), but the way the development was often delivered felt really forced and not natural at all. A lot of the problems I have with Super are summed up in this video perfectly: It threw interesting concepts out of the window as far as execution goes, simply to generate trailer-based "hype" around certain "big twists" and things just too often revert back to square one after the big bad is defeated. Take UI as an example: At least it was foreshadowed, but Goku just achieving it out of nowhere in a matter of 40 minutes felt really unnatural when compared to the long-time struggles he had to go through to achieve even SSJ. Super has great moments and good aspects, but it's not nearly as good as Z and original DB for me, because it just lacks the emotional investment of those series'. It stands way above of GT tho.
The whole “Goku not understanding sex” thing only worked in DB because he was a 12 year old who had never seen a woman in his entire or had been around people other than Gohan. Now he’s like 40+ years old and with a granddaughter and it’s just creepy. It’s like they took Goku from DBZA and tried to emulate it but failed miserably
I don’t get how ppl interpret this as “poor chi-chi, Goku never shows her affection” when they’ve canonically had sex. Like u said, Goku still acting naive abt these things has creepy undertones like he doesn’t even know what he and chi-chi did
@Tia Blue I just want to point out it that I got this from someone who commented from Geekdom101’s video about Goku and Chichi kissing in the cell saga that the kiss and sex could be a joke of vegeta misunderstanding Goku’s comment on trunks kissing mai that it could be Goku not having to give a mouth to mouth resuscitation of a senzu bean and Goku being surprised about it but I might be incorrect about this
I always considered it as Goku being weirded out that Trunks delivered the senzu bean in the form of a kiss, rather than not understanding what a kiss is, to be honest.
The Zeno ending would have been better if the characters were actually aware of the tragedy of the situation. Like, if they KNEW that summoning Zeno was the last-resort solution and would only end with him nuking the universe, but they had literally no other choice because Zamasu fused with it and was starting to bleed into other timelines. But no, in the context of the story, it's just Goku being a buffoon again
Super Goku in a nutshell "Hey so like ya know about that dbz abridged thing? Ya know how they made Goku more dimwitted and funny? Well let's do that, but worse!"
@@567643tome I watched Kai and surprise, he's not retarded. No one's claiming Goku's superman but he's not whatever Toei thinks he is. Hell, he's more tolerable in the Super manga
@@bipstymcbipste5641 I always liked to think that the Kai version of dbz is the canon version (Specifically for the dub) Since it's way more accurate to the original story
This is an old video, but just here to say that black destroying trunk's time machine makes sense. He wants to remove all threats to his elimination of all mortals. If trunks is stuck is another timeline, trunks can't stop him! Makes sense
@@Silverstain which is really, really weird, also zamasu wasnt erased in the future timeline, so um whats up with that? he wasnt wearing a time ring? and why is the hakai different than zeno earasure?
Randomized a few corrections: 1.Theiy not dead theiy don t exist anymore zeno erased them(dead peopel go to king enma and then to hell or heaven,peopel who are erased by zeno or hakaied by a GoD simply stop existing theiy un-made so to speak). 2.Zeno did not just erase that universe but its entire timeline so that all that was left was himself. wich is why whis said that he had to find a new home for mai and trunks where all his friends are still alive and zamasu hasen t become evil yet,that new home is a new timeline where mai and trunks already exist but the ones from the maintimeline can still live in,so while Zamasu technicaly suceeded in killing of all live in a universe by virtue of zeno erasing it, al of those peopel are still alive in the new timeline future trunks and future mai now live in,so Zamasu effectivly archived nothing in the end other then his owen death by the hands of zeno sama.
@@webbiefade14 no it isn't, the concept keeps changing but the execution isn't, which means they executed the bullshit concept and demands of their client amazingly.
@@HullsColby lol okay so you think the concept was terrible instead? That's fair lol. But still the execution of those terrible concepts were subpar, why? Because Toei had different staff members coming in and adding their own pieces to the story, which explains why the structure of the arc seemed so shitty. Ex: One day the Toei staff wrote Vegeta to be stronger than Goku after training in the HTC while Goku practiced the mafuba, and the next day a different set of staff wrote Goku to suddenly be stronger with no explanation and overpower merged Zamasu when wasn't even stronger than Goku Black himself.
@@webbiefade14 And that's exactly why they did the execution amazingly, out of all the bullshit the executives are doing the directing management makes sure to make it entertaining. There's no deeper science behind this or outside or third party influence to it, they just did a great job at executing it.
Most people call this just the Future Trunks arc but I like to call it 'The Future Trunks gets utterly and completely done dirty but its ok because the animation is pretty cool arc'.
@jesus barrera It's ok in the destroyed timeline because everything looks darker and grittier but in the normal world yeah they look like absolute horseshit
I think that final would be okay if Trunks didnt return to a bootleg version of his future and instead was part of the Tournament of Power. That way he might had been the one to restore the universes(and his timeline) or at least help to accomplish that, with some fanservice of him and 17 fighting together like Goku and Frieza since the whole theme of the arc was enemies sticking together and trusting each other for a common goal.
I got genuinely angry when Goku forgot the Mafuba seal. Yes, Goku acted dumb in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z as well. But it was usually for lighthearted moments and not for pivotal, key moments like sealing Zamasu. And this is right after he forgot the senzu beans, so he should've learned from his mistake! What even was the point of the Mafuba at that point besides a waste of time and the most artificial of all kinds of tension? Why not just have it not work because of the jar being broken and glued back together? Or just have Goku not able to do it and Trunks NOT learning it in an instant from a badly filmed video of Piccolo? It genuinely frustrated me, not only because of how dumb Goku was, but because of how badly executed the entire Mafuba thing was. Plus, you could've just had Fused Zamasu too fast to be hit by it if you wanted a fight scene and had them do it on the weird Sky Zamasu thing that comes out of nowhere, as to not completely override every story Trunks has been in.
the sky zamasu thing makes sense to me(more than Zamasu cloning himself at least), but the ending just sucked and made everything that happened in the arc pointless.
It could've been an easy fix. Like have trunks miss the jar since he barely knows the technique or the seal was still with goku and was being held back not being able to get it to trunks.
@@TheeSinnerman well, bringing Mr Satan ended up, you know saving the universe in a rather inventive way instead of just goku and the gang always saving the day. And making Mr Satan a rather cool character
The power scaling in this reminds me of the scene from GT where Omega Shenron is able to beat the snot out of SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta, but base Goku somehow holds back a massive blast.
I remember someone saying that that's his "changed" state and that he could've abandoned the spirit bomb and beat Omega to death with his bare fists if he wanted to.
At least it had a relation with the cliffhanger ending,since we never and will never know what happened to Goku after he fell off that crater if he died and somehow achieved omnipotence maybe?
@@canondripgoku5159 the general consensus with that scene is that Goku borrowed shenron's power in order to beat Omega shenron but because of that Goku was essentially dead and had to leave with shenron to the eternal dragon realm.
@@Alexis_Customs common even though there was some few problems with the Stannis arc ending, sansa being sold off to Ramsey and the dorne arc the last season of game of thrones good just wish they continued it on from Jon's death
You were saying that the final episode of the arc is pointless because of the ending But it's even worse It makes *all* of Future Trunks' story retroactively pointless. Remember Episode of Trunks? Well they all die. Remember the Trunks epilogue? Well they all die. Remember when Trunks went back to fix his timelines hopeless future by saving Goku? Well his timeline and everyone in it dies.
@@legacytag of course I know it's canon, but have you ever heard of headcanon? When fans don't like how the rest of a story plays out they delete it from their mind. For me Dragon Ball ended with Z, Game of Thrones never went past season 3 and Naruto never had a War Arc.
So, the arc ends with a literal deus ex machina button being pressed and supergod just wiping the bad guy from existence... along with countless innocent people. It'll be great. Fans will love it.
I mean... countless? Pretty sure Trunks and his group was the last of survivors. Androids wiped out large portion of humanity, then Black followed up. Also, if he hadn't deleted that timeline, every mortal being in universe would've eventually been destroyed anyway.
@@yoursonisold8743 Sshhh don't argue with the dragon ball fandumb. First they will complain about zero stakes, goku saving the day, and everyone always being okay... ...But then here they'll whine about Goku (and pretty much everyone) losing, and everything ending with the heroes' loss in the one arc that can truly provide a sense of urgency and things at stake.
@@ShimmerScarlet It's bad because the ending of the arc made it inconsequential and no character seemed to have cared, not because it had stakes. The Cell Saga had stakes but is still one of the most beloved arcs within the fandom I *hate* these disingenuous arguments
@@supabutter Yeah! It's not that it's an inherently uninteresting conclusion. The writers not taking a moment to think about the impacts of the conclusion is what makes it uninteresting. Like, imagine if this led into another arc where the consequences of this have led to the team deciding to find some way to get the universe back and truly fix future trunks's timeline. Could easily end on a great, bittersweet note where the timelines to get merged, a lot of people are saved and it's for the greater good, but the team needs to say goodbye to future trunks for good, because if things are "fixed" in his timeline, that version of him never exists. (edited for phrasing)
I'm just realising the parallels between Zamasu and Ginyu. Both stealing goku's body after a demonstration of power. Eventually defeated because they do not understand how to use goku's body due to a lack of understanding of said body.
Which was BS itself because he DID learn how Goku's body works and learned how to become a SSJ and even use the Kamehameha, and yet he became deformed because he was half mortal...? Which doesn't make sense because he was still a Kai just in a mortal's body, in which that shouldn't matter because Merged Zamasu's fusion never ran out regardless of Goku's body being mortal or not. WTF is this writing?
Actually, Zamasu had complete control over Goku's body, so you are wrong. Zamasu combined his own divine Ki and created his own super sayain, so he clearly understood how to use Goku's body. So their only similarity is that they both took his body
Yeah you completely missed the mark on that one. Zamasu was defeated because he fused with his other self, which does not have an immortal body. Thus making fused Zamasu no longer immortal.
Ah yes, future goten, the child that was never conceived because goku died from a heart virus before the androids who killed chichi showed up. Very 5head theory 🤣
A bigger question is: why was the Spirit Bomb that powerful when there wasn't a lot of people that was giving energy to it (yes ik Goku and Vegeta was there but they were weakened)
It took all the energie in the universe to beat kid buu, and you're telling me that a midget bomb fueled by handful of people was powerful enough to slice an immortal bieng who's more or less equal to ssb Vegito? This makes no sense.
@@arhangeo that the timeline explanation in Super is bull. If you think about it like Mark mentioned there would be no conflict as the timeline would not exist. The video has been taken down.
*_You know what I‘ve always found hilarious about this arc?_* Remember that alternate timeline that was identical to Future Trunk’s except that imperfect cell killed him and escaped to the main timeline? You know, that timeline with no dragon balls to bring Trunks back, where he never even met Mai? Yeah, that would have been the PERFECT timeline to send Trunks and Mai to at the end of the arc. But Whiss said “fuck that shit, I found this really cool _identical_ timeline that somehow exists now. Goodbye forever!” The wasted opportunity there AFTER making a smart callback to the Cell saga made me want to strangle the writer.
I get your opinion but why? Isn't a similar universe more favorable than the one in the past of the future? They would have to put stuff like "Mom I am back" scene after so many years, or maybe Buu revived fully in that timeline and destroyed the planet, so a more identical universe is always the best choice.
Hulls Colby I’m sorry, are you telling me introducing himself to HIMSELF _AND_ HIS MOTHER is somehow LESS awkward than just introducing himself to his mother again? And you’re telling me after already defeating Buu, an EVEN MORE powerful Trunks would somehow have trouble this time around? No. There is nothing to lose by going back to that timeline. It’s essentially the exact same setting with one less Trunks in it, therefore nothing you mentioned would be any more or less of a problem.
Hulls Colby I know, I never said he was. What I said was OUR future trunks has no reason to struggle with Buu in that timeline since he’s even stronger than when he beat Buu in his own timeline.
This would have actually been great as in this timeline the orginal timeline everyone of the hero's and Villian's are died. Meaning there's no one to defend earth and with Trunks there the original timeline would have a new defender and the orginal timeline and Future Trunks would have a happy ending.
Actually Challenger that’s actually a really good idea. Similar to the Buu Arcs, this has good concepts, but was trash at executing a lot of them. Get this comment upvoted!
How about extending the fight between the fusions, using moves from the manga? Father and son Garlick Ho struggling better against Zamasu's holy wrath and full power kamehameha finalizing the first "hit very hard" on fused Zamasu. Goku and Vegeta fusing before eat the senzu bean and the last one being used by Goku to perform the Genki Dama. The "never kiss" gets a hakai, so as the "better friend promise" (It's kinda useless, even being cute and make me less mad with the final). All things forgotten by Goku would be remebered, however, Goku stills leaves the seal, but in the time machine, so Bulma have to recover while Trunks and Mai are dealing with Zamasu, but she doesn't make it fast enough and this is how the trap fails. After Trunks defeat Zamasu using the Genki Dama (because Zamasu can defend himself from that) as a sword, instead of Infinite Zamasu, the imortal part begins to recover AND THEN they can use Mafuba properly, with Goku leaving the pot in the Mount Paozu house or New Namek (maybe this one isn't a good idea because of Moro) Trunks and Mai (optional) only returns to leave the present crew, the ending scene still remains, it's nice and I like how present Gohan reminds future Gohan in Trunks eyes. Also, those "trying be badass" interactions between kid Trunks and Mai? HAKAI
@@zerostars7499 Thank you! And I really agree, good ideas but poor execution. For example I actually really like Trunks's spirit sword thing and him being the one to finish off Zamasu, so why not have hints of him learning the Spirit Bomb when he's training with Goku and Vegeta the first time?
@@sandstorm2384 Those are actually great ideas. In particular I feel like instead of forgetting the senzu and the seal, why not just have the seal not be strong enough? Zamasu is a god, he can probably bust outta that no worries
One thing I do appreciate a little bit is that in the manga, Goku doesn't forget the seal for the Mafuba, but instead gets it mixed up with a coupon. The mistake's a bit more believable and honestly might not have even been Goku's fault, considering Roshi doesn't seem to take much care for his possessions and might've just given Goku the wrong slip of paper by mistake
Still better than the anime. I've just rewatched most of DBS (without fillers) for the first time since it's initial run. Those who claim that "Goku was always dumb" need to re-watch Dragonball & DBS to see that Goku has become DUMBER than a child. First forgets the zenzu beans, AND then the mafuba seal, less than 10 episodes apart?! Come on, Toei & co... :(
@@Metalton95 exactly. Goku has never been a genius, but he's definitely not so ignorant and stupid to undermine the severity of a dire situation by forgetting THE ONE THING that was supposed to give them a chance of winning.
I think it’s kinda stupid even if it’s a plausible mistake, what’s the point of Goku spending all that time learning of it if he doesn’t even bring the tools for it to work. I would’ve rather the plan just fails than for it to be a mistake that was made before the fight even started
I knew it wasn't good, I hated this arc, Goku Black had the biggest asspulls I've seen for a villain yet everyone will eat that shit up cause "Ah it's evil Goku, he's so cool Oh my god!", stuff like this makes really question the Dragon Ball fanbase.
I get its sarcasm but do you really think there was supposed to be some symbolism here? Pretty sure they (the future Z fighters) just named him that because of his clothing choice. What else would they have called him? Lmao.
The most notable thing about that 3-part filler arc is that Copy-Vegeta was voiced by the Dub actor that isn't Sabat and was the one who did the classic Over 9000 line that was meme'd to death.
Future Trunks: “Black killed my mom right in front of me” Goku: “yeah, yeah but how strong is he” Black: “I killed your wife and son” Goku: “YOU’RE GONNA PAYYY *random inexplicable rage boost*”
To be fair he described it in detail taunting Goku as he had him stabbed against the wall. Also Super Goku being Super Goku probably didn't process Bulma dying as Bulma really dying.
Wolfgod 64 it wouldn’t make sense for him to get mad at the androids, him getting mad is slightly different. Black is actually the person who killed him, his wife, and kids in that timeline. The androids he was exposed to were from his present timeline, where they didn’t kill anyone
@@williamrichter1113 That's a good point, but he also didn't hate the Androids for killing Krillin in the future, someone we KNOW he flips out over the death of. Same with Buu come to think of it. I think with Goku it is very "in the moment".
Not only did the ending made completely no sense (personally I found it depressing for all the reasons already mentioned in the video) but we never got a chance to see Trunk's future not even a glance like it happened in DBZ. Episode 68 was a slap to the face when Beerus destroyed both the mineral that Bulma needed and the time machine to go to Trunk's future to see him again. Basically Toei animation is telling us "F you, Beerus destroyed any hope of y'all seeing Trunks again so forget about him and Mai". Is unbelievable the amount of people stating that this arc is the best arc of the Dragon Ball franchise, if it wasn't for the great animation quality during the battles I'm sure it wouldn't be praise so much as it is now. This could've been a masterpiece but they just F' it up...
I thought the Trunks/Gohan ice cream was actually touching. Trunks came to terms with the timeline differences as they relate to Gohan. Future Gohan was a wounded, battle-hardened mentor figure who died and gave Trunks all of his initial strength, while the main story's Gohan had the privilege of saving his world from the Androids/Cell. Trunks is almost endearingly disappointed in a strange ambivalent way because of this. Interesting dynamic in my opinion.
Yeah, I don't get why he has a problem with that episode. It serves to contrast Trunks timeline with the regular one, has him come to terms with how different environments led to people becoming different and that is not a bad a thing. Also the part where he imagines what a peaceful world where he can just enjoy a dinner with his mom and Mai is just heartbreaking. This entire arc is basically "being Future Trunks is suffering" and this episode encapsulates that perfectly.
He long since had time to come to terms with the 2 Gohans being different. However, I'm surprised Trunks isn't more disappointed in Gohan, since that dude became strong and squandered it.
@@InfernosReaper Trunks is happy cause gohan isn’t forced to fight and train like future gohan, both gohan’s never liked fighting they only fought to protect so seeing a peaceful gohan that doesn’t have to fight is nice, a type of life trunks always wanted, even for his late master
@@dolphwang5063 " they only fought to protect" Hard to do that when you slack off on training and hope someone else will save you. How many times does Gohan need to be taught that he needs to be ready for when someone else isn't around to bail him out?
I always just assumed Vegeto unfused inside Buu because of Buu's weird magic body and anything goes with him. And Super doesn't retcon something that was never 100% stated, it just gave it a reason to happen, but I think they could pulled some cool stuff of Vegeto trying to unfuse if it had been permanent.
"Vegetto's supposed to wear a combination of clothes" It's really amusing how that works, considering all Vegettos so far have worn Goku's top clothing and Vegeta's "underwear" suit only being used on their *specifically made for marketing* one, minus the one using DBSuper stuff. And then there's Kefla.
To be fair, while it doesn't make sense that Trunks can 1v1 Goku Black, it does make sense for Zamasu: It was never established that Zamasu was at the same level as SSJ Blue or even SSJ God, quite the opposite. When Goku do a sparing match against him, he just need to use SSJ2 to completely dominate him, hence why Zamasu wish to be immortal, but not Goku Black. This would also explain why Fused Zamasu is weaker/barely more powerfull, as Goku clearly said in the Buu saga, that using his Potaras to fuse with someone like Satan, would make him weaker than he already is, before the fusion. Edit: I know about the Vegito fight guys, my point was that Zamasu's Immortality allow him to survive any blows and injuries he takes. No matter how outmatched he is. This applies to Fused Zamasu too (Probably ? idk, i'm not defending Black's arc plot as a whole, it really makes no sense).
In fairness I don't think that's how that works, since Mr Satan is a fly compared to Goku at that point, where as Zamasu is a competent God Ki wielding Master Martial Artist! I just chock it up to Zamasu as clearly shown, degrading over time as he let his guard down with each hit, having compromised healing fusing with a mortal, and being a psychological wreck! But even if I can handwave the Father-Son Galick Gun as a cool move, on the logic that Zamasu was using a fraction of his power and toying with them, the 2nd beam struggle with Goku shouldn't have happened! Not at least without establishing that Zamasu was in shock and weakened from taking his own blast, and not without Goku at least doing something crazy like verbally screaming out a Kaioken x20!
Greenjey Again, huge plot hole there. Vegeta was stomping black when they returned from the hyperbolic time chamber. If fused Zamasu was even weaker than Black, then there’s no way he could have taken on both Goku and Vegeta at the same time. And don’t even get me started on Vegito.
The problem is that Trunks was fighting both Goku Black and Zamasu and still keeping up, and if Fused Zamasu is weaker (or only a bit stronger) than SSR Goku Black, then why he was keeping up against Vegito in super saiyan blue?? Im don't dislike the series or the characters (I love Goku Black) but it is a fact that the absurd power levels that Super has is one of his main problems
It making sense for Zamasu doesnt save the TRunks vs Black being stupid still. The scale of nonsense is tipped HEAVILY in the Trunks vs Black nonsense favor by a large sum. And this is before the rage boost.
Future zamasu was atleast Ssb level u genius Due to his immortality he couldn't gain zenkai boost lile black and the other saiyans throughout the arc but he was still able hold his own or tag them even though he was continuesly letting his guard down. Fused Zamasu combines both aspects of black and zamasu, since he is immortal and has the infinite ability to increase in strength plus the fact that he is a true deity which makes his potential higher than any other saiyan
I hated how the power of the different forms are wildly inconsistent. At times, super saiyan blue looks and feels weaker than just their super saiyan forms.
I think Goku has definitely kissed Chi Chi before, its just that when Vegeta asked "you've never done that before?" Goku thought he was reffering to the baby bird thing, not kissing. Gokus initial reaction was most likely a translation thing.
I hate how every single piece of bad writing in anime/manga is always initially written off as a “translation thing.” Any piece of bad writing MUST be because the translators were incompetent, and not because the writers wrote something badly.
The ending was truly awful, but what really got me is had they thought about it there's already a timeline where Trunks doesn't exist. The timeline where Cell killed him. Presumably Buu would still be dormant but that would be easily resolved, and both Trunks and that timeline's Bulma would be able to be reunited with a version of each other. Mai might still exist but it's still a hell of a lot better than what they went with.
Yeah, there's no Androids in that timeline due to the remote and Cell fucked off as well. Would've been the easiest spot to insert them. You could just handwave some bullshit about Mai conveniently also dying in that timeline.
@@PrinceVegita1 the time machines have preset coordinates yes, but the time machine used in this arc by the gang to get to FT's timeline IS the one Cell used, so they could have easily made it save that relative timeline as a go to at the end
Honestly, that would have been so much better. Just have Whis offhandedly say that the Mai of that timeline was a casualty of the androids or Cell and you can even avoid the two Mais thing and it would be fine. You can even, if you really want to, have Trunks then face off against that universe's version of Zamasu like he did with his androids.
Imagine if Zamasu took over Gohan's body, that would be way more emotional watching Trunks' greatest challenge be the same man who trained him and whose death he avenged.
@@stefanradebach2889 It's a shame that we will never get to see Gohan and Future Gohan meet (Also it's really stupid that Future Trunks never went to new namek and revived everyone in his timeline)
@@jinxluvver3909 I know, and I wouldn't be surprised if people think that laziness is why Gohan got nerfed to the point where he can barely go super saiyan, Goku is even more of a moron then he was, Future Trunks got screwed over at the end of the Goku Black Arc and why it's basically The Goku and Vegeta Show.
I like the visual imagery of Zamasu essentially turning into Giygas from Earthbound, but unfortunately cool imagery alone cannot save such a shitty ending.
Dragon ball super; the manga: ok lets have trunks be able to hold off zamasu but not be anywhere near goku black in power. the anime: he you know what would be cool!?!?!?! (it wasn't as cool as they thought)
He talks about how power scaling is important in this arc, wow can’t wait to see what he says about the power scaling in the top arc and califla and kale
Tbf, the scaling isn't as bad in the ToP since there are LOGICAL (as opposed to the Goku Black arc) reasons why a character might be holding back and why two characters normally on different levels might seemingly fight on the same. That reason is to prevent accidentally killing someone. It's pretty stupid that Goku goes Blue every time he is testing one of his teammates despite obvious power gaps, but but at least we know he can suppress his base power and therefore the multiplier would not boost him nearly as much. As for Kale, Caulifla, and Kefla their real problem is how easily they power up and less so the scaling on display. We don't know Berserk's actual multiplier/strength boost, so being able to tank a Blue Kamehameha the first time we see it is fine. What's more is that this form's power is also on display in the Broly movie, which stays relatively consistent to that of the anime (assuming his base power is greater then Kale's). Likewise, Kefla's significant power boost is not nearly as bad as made out to be. Why? Because it actually follows the ridiculous exponential boost that occurred in the Buu arc with Vegito. Remember Vegito toyed with Buu, a Buu stronger then both SSJ3 and Ultimate Gohan. And this was a Vegito in SSJ1. Just look at this scaling: SSJ1 Vegito > > > > Buuhan > Tenkshan > Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Vegeta That's a ridiclous boost if I've ever seen one. If Vegito were SSJ3 it would be unimaginable, and Kefla had the power of a Berserk blue tanking monstrocity all while being SSJ2. So i am fine wit this. If anything, the putrid boost in the Goku Black arc is the problem not the one in the ToP.
Sadly Vegito has been irelevant since day 1. He never wins anything. The only fusion that ever achived anything was Gogeta. Both in Janemba movie and dbs broly.
Vlad 117 I wholeheartedly agree the fact that vegito just never finished a fight always bothered me but the fact that Gogeta (except GT but for some reason they changed his entire personality to be goofy) has literally always finished a fight before his fusion ran out yea Broly was wished away but that fight was over Gogeta was still fused after that
The first part of this arc was so goddamn powerful and I absolutely loved it. Goku Black was intimidating as fuck and it was amazing. And while i still really like this Arc, it really dropped the ball towards the end. I like the idea of an ending where the heroes win but lose but yeah you need a good reason for that to happen.
And what panel of the manga or scene in the anime showed that? None. Hell in the anime there was no wedding scene. It was just Goku and Chi-Chi flying away on the Nimbus to get married.
@@Drums_of_Liberation In the last episode of Dragon Ball/ first of Z in the recap of what happened in the 3-5 year. Brief cutesy scene of the marriage ceremony. And when goku brought chi-chi to master roshi the first time.
@@HajiDumas Oh shit man, you're right. I was completely thinking about the manga when I wrote that. I remember for a fact there was no wedding scene there. Total brain fat there.
I really liked Trunks catching up with Gohan, his entire character is so heavily tied to Gohan that it'd have been weird to go the whole arc without them interacting.
