Thanks again to Star Destroyer for their renders and be sure to check out their www.scorg.tools site chock full of Star Citizen Tools for your PU adventures.
why is the industrial version black and red and the drop ship the same color as heavy equipment? i mean i get the pirate colors but the black and red should have been the concierge skin and the concierge skin should have been the assault skin and the assault skin should have been the cargo skin imo
Dauntless Paint the Concierge could pickup is nice it is usable on both versions but do agree would make sense it to be a military model - even in a combat logistics first mindset the livery of the Ironclad Assault is not quite fitting.
I am glad I got the assault. There was never a reason for the roof not to open. Thinking from a ground combat perspective, you could have your armored ground forces go out the front ramp and infantry hot dropped in something like an MPUV Personnel. From a medical perspective, landing or parking in front of the ramp to either drag or roll someone up the ramp using a gurney in a potential warzone doesn't seem like the move - I'd have them dropped in from the top in a ship, triaged and stabilized and then transferred to a dedicated medical ship that could get them back in the fight. I'll definitely use mine to help my org but I am also 100% using this as my mobile piracy rig. Gonna have an MPUV Tractor, Nursa, Ballista, and ideally a Buccaneer with 2 or 3 furies. If the removable command module works, then hopefully by that point ship to ship docking will work as well and we could potentially have a Cutlass Blue or something on the airlock on the right hand side of the vessel. Could easily scoop peoples ROCs up and hold them up then and there, or dump cargo, small vehicles and other equipment in with haste to get sorted later.
I'm strongly considering upgrading from my base Ironclad to the Assault variant. It gives me an excuse to carry the MPUV 1T or even a 315 P on my Assault Ironclad in place of the tractor beams. As a long-time armchair fan of Warhammer 40k, particularly Orks, gotta have more & bigger gunz meaning more dakka!!! Thanks for all your content and perspectives @RedJay! * gives a sharp salute * 💯⚡🫡
Given the bay dimensions they gave, it looks like the 315p won't fit. It seems the bay is listed atm as 7.5m tall, whereas the 315p is listed as 8m tall.
If I was you I wouldn't worry about it until it gets closer to release. That's what I'm doing I'm going to try the base version then I'll CCU up to the assault if I decide to I think it will be at least a year or two before this gets close to release. If you have the base version already you have lifetime insurance
Bro, first of all, excellent video 🎉. Looking at the image of the Ironclad and the Kraken side by side. I noticed that if you park the clads right legs on the size one pads and the left legs on the medium sized, well... I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe we can't fit a vulture on a clad, but maybe you can fit a clad in the Kraken.
@@RedJay talking seriously, The 🦜 Piratechad Fatterpillar has a tractor beam at the front of the ship, it's attached to what it seems to be a crane like mechanism (you can see clearly in the 3d models including other details), I love it! I plan to use the brig for the prisioners that fly on the little ships that they will be manually scraping, who needs a vulture when I got a remote turret on the inside and a pair of railings for my unlawful prisión guards. The command module is fine... I guess. You know what's weird, there are different pilot and copilot seats in the Ironclad main module and another set on the command module brochure. I really wish we can fly from the center view, and using the module view for landings, take off and combat. o7 Red. Have a good one.
@@RedJay completly agree. it should be ussed as a sort of extended escape module. oh! like a dingy for a yatch! its the escape vessel as well as used for day to day things for going to town. thats how the module should be seen, its a mantiance dingy! escape pod but also can move things around and transport people if needed
Thanks Jay for the context. As I suspected, the Assault wouldn't lose its part trick. That said and knowing what I know now. I won't be keeping either. I'll be down grounding to a more practical Caterpillar. Thanks
@@RedJay I think so. Hopefully the upgrade the turret guns to size fives. I'm banking on that they'll actually give the caterpillar the modularity flexibility that it's allegedly touting.
That's what I'm thinking too . I have a Vulcan crucible and liberator in my fleet I'm wanting the 1500 internal space to haul cargo within armor and shields
Speculation to be clear: Would be fascinating to see ships like this be able to handle this issue by increasing pressure in rooms not decompressed before opening the ramp or roof at risk of increased fire risk should those overpressred spaces suffer a mechanical fault or take incoming enemy fire.
My speculation, it’s drake so it’s going run it’s cargo, probably in a vacuum . Makes it cheaper without losing functionality. ( I’m not saying it won’t be able to Aired, im just assuming it would be air costly too, even the bmm might keep cargo in an empty - hence window to look in from conference room .)
Yeh would like the option to do decompression in areas of the ship, but would also like an option to install air shields around the ship were you think they are needed in game of coz. not buying with real money at all but have it just in game.
i hope they add something like this for most ships, the corsair doesn’t have a true airlock anywhere besides the docking collar, so the crew is gonna get hypoxia real quick lol
The "Elephant in the room" seems to be the damn command pod. Before I order this thing, I want to see them get the command pod (and elevators perhaps) working on the Cat like it was supposed to have. The command pod HAS a tractor beam on it. Probably one of the most useful tools currently in a cargo carrier of ANY current type would be to basically fly around in a detachable MPUV and then instead of having to land inside the ship, store it and leave... the command pod IS the ship. Once docked you just leave. Get the CAT finished CIG. If you want me to pledge the "Fatterpeller" then you need to demonstrate that you can actually complete a ship that is already in game with many of the same features.
@@RedJay I'm actually dying to see how the Cat performs in the new cargo environment with the detachable command section. If it works like I think it will... I'm sure I'll buy a Fatterpeller.
@@RedJay Exactly. Like bringing your own MPUV. We see this fairly commonly on the road with "Day load" flatbeds carrying their own forklift. What really gets my logistical juices flowing is the fact that unlike the MPUV... this tender.. has a jump drive. They have already told us about loading times... well.. that already has my mind racing about how to make Fatterpeller operations hyper efficient. Running 3 or 4 of them at the same time. But at this point I'll have to wait until they actually get the Cat working so I can try out some different configurations as there is still soooooo much we don't actually know. I think at this point there is soooooo much that not even CIG knows. lol
@twelvewingproductions7508 Its always the unknown of what makes sense in concept of ship, what CIG learns during making the vessel, and even post launch how it gets tuned to fit what is needed. Fun moneymaking ship that has combat logistics chops when needed? That's slick no matter how it comes out. Extra module ship hot swapable with Cats verison is just a neat add on that could make it even better
Didn’t answer the most important, IMO, question… Where to get enough duct tape to keep it flying. 😋 M2 many years ago, years ago picked up a $30 M2 to Merchantman CCU, recently grabbed a M2 to Assault CCU. “Now we play the waiting game… Ahh, the waiting game sucks. Let’s play Hungry Hungry Hippos.” I’m interested in piracy gameplay, mainly in support roles. With some simple cargo hauling, on the side, to keep myself in credits. Merchantman will probably be too much of a ship for me to handle. Assault will probably be the best for me, but maybe too much. Would like to see them in game to decide if / what to upgrade my M2 to. I really like the M2, except, I really dislike the M2’s cockpit. The display layout and the view, really bug me. Guess I’ll start looking for an org in a few months or so, once I start paying more.
So much duct tape and some quick grinder down welds with one coat of paint chipping I bet haha. MISC has a unique style that is like a commercial airliner and is an acquired taste. Understandable looking for other cockpit layouts to spend many hours in. Finding an Org active in your Timezone (or.a couple if you are interested in more casual gameplay jumping around if they are ok with that) is the best way to enjoy multi-crew ships in SC.
Caterpillar and Cutlass were planned to have air shields before the Prowler ever came into consciousness. Cat even has the controls for it in the front module.
@@RedJay yeah, but perhaps as you pointed out at the beginning, when the cat gold standard pass rework effort is done, I suspect both command modules will be the same for both ships. In general design theory, and also Drake's design language, it is better when you have one part that can fit multiple set ups. The ultimate question will be: do they intend to keep that tractor beam on the command module?
@@DeplorableInfidel71 Just a bet that they change it in the rework pass. Since the tractor beam positions for the caterpillar are both bad, I can see them eliminating the command module's tractor beam and repositioning the tractor beam on the other side at a more favorable angle. For the cat, that command module side is also hampered by the upper cat-walk level internally.
@@MotherNature26 They cant really - it is a critical part of the Cat design, the tractor beam for that side is mounted on the CM. Controlled from the lower deck.... CM also has the extra weapons for the pilot, lots of minor stuff downstairs. Of course they CAN redesign it - but if they disarm the Cat CM, and strip that utility mount they are going to have to make some pretty extreme changes to rebalance it.
I believe I read somewhere that Flight Crew will be limited to Clothing and both Light and Medium Armors. How that applies to the Valkyrie's Air Curtain issue? Well crew and passengers just need to be ready to put on a helmet when needed. I don't have a problem with that. "But what about bed logging?" I hear you scream. "It's not fair that I wake up in a vacuum!" you wail, and "Why should I be expected to wear at least a flight suit while in a combat ship?" Waawaawaa. Either A, get used to sleeping in a helmet or B, bed log somewhere other than a potential combat zone where the likelihood of door gunners open a side door is probable. It's a drop ship. Not an explorer. Military vehicles are designed for purpose, not comfort. So, anything above what the ship's mission calls for is a luxury. I'm actually surprised beds and amenities are included at all. btw, The Ironclad and Liberator are more like Landing Craft (WW2), while a Dropship is more like a Helicopter (Viet Nam).
Crew, yes - for Valk need to wear flight suits or light armor due to exposure to hard vacuum on that second floor where the cockpit and crew areas are. For the personnel getting ready to be dropped off in the two rooms below they still have a door between them and the vacuum unless someone opens it. Yes Lib is kind of a cross between a Ferry and a "get a lot of equipment near the fight" as part of Combat Logistics like the landing craft example you used Max. It's not really a hot dropper but can get close enough to matter. Valk agreed it's like a Chinook on steroids with weapons to fire... but it has a LOT of armor to play with to take some heat while trying to suppress enemies you just dropped folks off next too.
I'm on the fence. Im seriously considering downgrading back to the Cat. Personally I struggle with way to many weed level details that are unanswered in the Q & A. In particular with airshields, venting and reclaiming atmosphere, AI crew. Features are great, but the conveying mechanisms can cripple the design flowpath during interaction gameplay.
Looking at the picture though the gantry, running the length of the hold, overhangs the tanks. Prob reduces the width by 2 meters on each side. Gonna have to be a skinny fighter 17m wide or less. Maybe you can squeeze a couple of bucs in there or snubs.
Exactly, it is better suited to smaller fighters that normally do not have long legs and can take advantage of the pocket carrier aspect if you are using it that way.
Lots of good insights. Only a few things I'm not sure I agree * they called out ironclad command module is better and that they are compatible. I doubt cat will come with it. Sounds like an in-game upgrade option. * Not every ship has vtol. The fact that it does means there should be less concern about vtol performance. That said, vtol are not intended to take you from a pad to space. Imo you're supposed to transition to standard thrusters once you've taken off
On VTOL topic, it does not indicate good performance through the whole atmo entry/exit experience - should have been more clear on my points there and yes you are right about transition to main thrusters. Entering Speculation territory, an armored brick like ship with VTOL will likely chew through a higher then average fuel load of hydrogen to start takeoff in VTOL. On the Command Modules it will be fun to see the differences and see folks mix and match so to speak.
It'll be nice to see more info on when we're getting Maelstrom armor. Feels pretty far away, but they did show it at Citizencon and said we would get everything there in the next year.
Maelstrom is closely tied to the resource network system, and we're seeing progress in that. I expect both to arrive at the same time, or within a patch or two of each other.
@@fnunez Nice, so maybe they are getting closer, looking forward to the eventual ISC demo! It sounds really interesting but I want to see it actually function. They seem to have a clear direction with balancing combat in the future, but so much of it relies on Maelstrom working.
Maelstrom is one of the big make or break things for multi-crew ships to have staying power in a hot environment. Will be wild to see Hurricanes and Scorpions suddenly not be able to print DPS on bigger ships.
Great analysis! I was really on the fence with the Ironclad initially and debated replacing my Hercules C2 with the Ironclad Assault. In the end I went with the base Ironclad for zero-g operations to help with Salvage and Mining ops, and kept the Hercules C2 as my primary vehicle mover and atmo transport. I'm operating under the same assumption you have where the efficiency of the ship will matter on planets with earth-like (or higher) gravity.
Good way to cover both bases - and yes the Ironclad ships are going to pay one way or another in atmo for being armored bricklike designs (even though I do love the look and have a CCU for an Ironclad Assault ready to go when they come out!)
This further solidifies my plans to turn my Caterpillar into a flying machine shop or mini factory ship once those factory modules become available. Will make a nice middleman ship between my resource gathering Reclaimer/miner ships and Crucible/Pioneer
We've been burned before by concept art not matching up with brochures and specifications - but yes I was in the camp that the roof must be able to retract.
@@RedJay Also as a random note, if you can swap the Caterpillar command module with the one on the Ironclad Assault, you can put that on and use the tractor beam on the command module to load your assault instead of bringing along a mpuv-tractor.
Anyone whose flown the planet in caterpillar. Been through orision’s old atmosphere ? How will the phatipilkar do it ? Crusader for atmo transport would be a sensible ninche, imo.
Crusader Industries' bedrock of the company is being atmo specialists, and yes thats why Hercs C2 and M2 are not going anywhere for different reasons as options for folks to fly. Ironcalds are compelling most for use in space and in low gravity moons/large asterioids.
Totally agree about the command module. At least, you should still be able to pilot the cargo portion if the command module separates. Really strange and pointless direction they're going with that.
About the VTOL trusters - they must be good. This has no WINGS, so at very least they must be strong enough to start moving and allow you to go vertical to then use those huge main thrusters and climb like a rocket...
@@RedJay I'm completely ok with it, as long as it's stable enough so all that firepower in the assaul version can actually be pointed at the ground targets. Actually it's important otherwise smaller planet capable cargo ships would be obsolete.
I think I may keep my assault and get a basic ironclad I had an idea the only ship I will own 2 of same is the endeavor because I wanted a science research and science R&D endeavor….. I don’t think the hospital version will be good after they ruin respawning
the biggest issue is that people can target the detachable command pod (which does not have any extra armor/shields that we know of) and take out the full ship
The shields of the Ironclad will cover the command module when they are connected. Just like they do on the Caterpillar. Remember the command pod is more of an escape pod than it is a shuttle or snub.
It is in the IC design docs - the CM has its own shields and other components. Interestingly each module for the Cat is supposed to have the same... Yes though you can target the CM same as you can target the Idris bridge...
I think people are missing what role these ships are going to fill. The base version is a pirate ship, plain and simple, so red and black. You are meant to disable a small ship, tractor it in, close the door, keep it under gun via the internal turret, throw the crew in the brig and tear their ship apart. Cargo... sure sure, that's what it's for officer, I swear. Now, as for the Assault. That one is the truly dangerous one, so black and yellow, as nature intended. With the Assault, you are meant to dominate in ground assault situations, where you open the top doors and lay down cover while 8-10 Titan suits launch out of the top, slamming down on the battlefield reigning terror in their wake. That's what the repair module is for, to rearm and repair the Titans. Nova tanks, yeah right. Parking 4 tanks in there and getting them out again would take a considerable amount of time. But can you imagine a bunch of Titans popping out of the top while a couple of Storms roll out of the front? CIG knows what they're intending with these and 100% they want to see pirating gameplay and 101% they want to see big ground assault battles.
Been saying that ramp is too narrow for pairs of Novas to both roll down at same time since the CIG video showing them off went up. Its a bottleneck and shows limitations of the great but not perfect design of the Ironclad Assault for so many large vehicles in place inside it at once. But when in relatively safe drop off locations its solid for that role with just a bit of coordination by the crews. Your take on the standard Ironclad is likely close to its real intent, only would add you are going to need to bring some spare faster then you firepower to chase down the smaller ships, slow or disable them and then Ironclad and the fast ship or two launched from it or just traveling with it take down the prey in that role. Titan Suits will certainly be integrated into a variety of ships, and I strongly believe an Atlas chasis will be sold that carries them on ships which do not have the infra to run/charge/repair a suit but can fit a Large sized ground vehicle... which Ironclad Assault can (and yes of course it can repair/fabricate parts to keep the systems sustained in operations long term.) Great points!
Brings up an interesting topic on volume - will it be tied to size categories or will it be its own new more nuanced way to balance fabrication capabilities.
The lock up area in the cargo variant is a brig. It says it on the brochure. No idea why they acted like it was for items not people in the video about it
It can absolutely can be used that way, but with Drake there is often a dual purpose - likely the whole secure storage of items angle hides the makeshift brig used for less then reputable purposes.
if they are marketing it with tanks inside i feel its not going to be amazing like some ballerina or ninja but its not going to be like a cast iron tub and fall i think it will be "good enough" VTOL and landing
Exactly, and likely have higher then average fuel consumption in atmo then compared with Herc series. Efficiency can be sacrificed for raw utility and combat logistics capabilities.
All I can say is, if the Liberator doesn't grow in size, then it has no real place in Star Citizen, but the Assault will. The Libertor can't be defended with the few/and weak weapons provided, nor are the pad sizes worth the cost. You are correct... The Caterpillar-like command module Sucks, and should be lost, in favor of an actual bridge. The command module while O.K. for the Caterpillar, has lost it's value on the Ironclad, it is a major weakness!
Liberator has a decent size quantum drive to get it places more efficiently with speed on it in a double deck configuration with an M2 worth of cargo on top of the 2 decks of ships/vehicles. I do agree it needs to grow a bit more but it's got good bones, much like Ironclad series is useful Lib will have a place too.
I don't think it'll be as useful if they stick to their lore. The liberator would be a tougher nut to crack, launching from it will be easier with no obstruction so it can be used while flying.....do that in a ship you have to fly up and out of and you are gonna have a bad day...go try it lol. More range in the lib, easier access (said that point already) the lib was always more of a transport than a combat ship.
The Liberator has actual landing pads and can refuel. This doesn’t have a pad. This can repair vehicles in the repair bay but not ships, which don’t fit in the repair bay. They’re apples and oranges. Liberator is a ship carrier. The ironclad assault is a ground vehicle carrier and repair craft.
The problem with the liberator is they designed it for a really lackluster role. It's not a carrier and it's not a combat ship. It's entire purpose is to move ships and vehicles between relatively safe locations. Think station to station or system to system. Not into battles
Even if the interior turret forces the enemy to take cover that buys a few seconds for defenders to flank the suppressed target. Sure this breaks down if its a whole group of enemy that are well equipped but the turret is useful.
C2/M2/A2 Fly the same and have the same weight basically... diff being just the fake HIT POINTS difference. There is a lot of imagination on ships performance, that was drastically changed now with the MM adoption for a lot of ships, exemple being the 400i taking a hit in 250m/s speed,, that is a LOT.... huge handling changes for a lot of ships, some for better some for much worse. I see that many ships get made with OP stats and the next patch after sales they are nerfed to death, so you get interested in the next brand new release... thats pretty bad, we dont have an idea of the final product real place..... Another sad example, the MSR, now having less survivability than the little brother the Spirit line, that have almost DOUBLE the hitpoints and lower target profile, and its faster. Really not happy on how ships are sold as concepts or even released and quickly changed to something else entirely.
Appologies about that - I am working with a new piece of equipment honestly it sounded great - pulled away for something I had to handle then when I came back to do the full run room was much hotter and equipment was sitting for a bit so think it messed something up. Shouldn't be an issue again.
If the ship was in now? Possibly. By time the Ironclads are in? Not really, ships of this size can take a decent chunk of damage... but you are going to have a repair bill or breaking out a few Cambrio SRTs and some RMC to fill the hole made in the deck and wall lol.
@durtyred86 All of those I'd rather have a small ship in the bay to do it instead. If the bay is full, I wouldn't leave my haul unflyable while I detached in a limited range emergency lifeboat. Hey, options are always cool, I just wouldn't mess with it much.
If it's going to have the command module anyway in the design, might as well get some use out of it. But I am certainly in the camp of rather the ship was controllable from the Control Room midship top.
@@RedJay At least something like on the Carrack where you can maneuver the ship but don't have any MFD's would have been nice in the control room so you're not a sitting duck without the sidecar.
Valk has the same design issue as the Ironclads - minute you open up the main vehicle space it vents a lot of the ship. Ironclads handle it better though in a way as the crew areas are not impacted by opening the ramp or retractable roof.
I do deeply care about that - had new piece of equipment I had tested ready then the room got very hot while I was pulled away, learned the hard way it doesn't like heat. What you are hearing is cleaned up as best as I could.
@@RedJay Well, I enjoyed what I could understand of it and I liked the clean visual presentation. Hopefully you can get the muddiness figured out. Cheers.
