First listen I cut it off after a minute. Was trash imo. Imma have to listen to it again. Seemed like the same old first single formula he's been using since the start of his career.
I love it. Was not really into it on the first listen, but it grew on me. Still some doubles here and there which I love, but not over the top technical that it hurts the song
Right. To say the fans don't care is diabolical. We fuck with the artist of their pen as A RAPPER. Pop Artists WE Know have writers. in that right care WDGAF. RAP?? We care lmao Fuck are they on
@kanye West @Jay-Z. Producer begins with @ Fat Joe, & @McLyte and Chris Burke… Fat Joe said “ Chris and Rakim are the first Daughters Rappers & @Foxy Brown is my second sister
Raps not Singing... Raps about the talent, vibe, and authenticity thats TRUE TO THAT PERSON.. Drakes no Ye.. Ye made NEW SOUNDS, Drake hops on new waves before they peak.. Its a BIG difference..
As a regular fan I care if the people I look at as an emcee write they’re bars. As long as you’re not saying that you’re tryna be the best rapper then collab all you want. But personal records being ghost written feels cringy
It just goes against what hip hop is. You gotta write your own bars if you’re gonna be out here saying you’re the best rapper. It’s super simple but once Drake came around, the goal post got moved over and over to the point where people don’t even know where it is anymore
Drake never called himself an MC. MC’s and rappers are not the same. All MC’s are rappers but not all rappers are MC’s. Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Eminem, Biggie, Doom, Andre 3000. Those are MC’s. Drake, Kanye, Dr Dre, Travis Scott and the majority of rappers are just rappers.
‘94. I usually tell people if you’re born after 9/11 you gotta earn my trust and respect for you as an intelligent human being. 😂 these post 9/11 babies are something else
94’ for sure we definitely care, if Drake was a pop star we wouldn’t care because pop is based on the artist ability to sound good while singing. They demonstrate their talent through performance. However RAP, it’s cool if you perform well if you are a mainstream artist and have fans that like to dance, but RAP, that’s about how you twist and manipulate words to take people to a place only YOU can take them. If someone else is the tour guide, that’s just straight plagiarism of someone else’s thoughts lol.
Another 94' here.. And I be damned if they try to change the definition of what a great rapper or what Hiphop/Rap is so a puppet can be considered the best.. No way man lol smh.. It's kinda insulting.
I'm starting to feel this conversation is bordering programming attempts. Hip hop fans care about the rappers that claim to be the best using their pen only. That's where the "barbershop" talk came from. This is not difficult. Hooks have never counted to hip hop heads as ghostwriting. It has always been and will forever be the verses.
You will never hear reference tracks for the true GOATs of hip hop. Nas, Eminem, Notorious BIG, Jay Z, Tupac. They just don’t exist. They write for people they don’t get written for.
@@brendalee2206The original version of “Renegade” was Eminem & Royce da 5’9” (Bad Meets Evil) but Royce’s verses were totally different from Jay’s verses, Jay’s verses are totally new and different from Royce’s verses, but the same Eminem verses were used for the final track. But that original “Renegade” you can find online still has Eminem rapping his own verses, it is just that instead of Jay being on there Royce has verses on there. And in the hook Em says “He’s Royce, he’s the King of Detroit, and I’m the sinister, Mr. Kiss My Ass is just a renegade” instead of the swapped out “Jigga” part for Royce.
@@hiphopdxAnd you’re catering to that brainless crowd. You’re rewriting Hip Hop canons/rules so Drake can keep perpetuating his karaoke scam operation in hip hop. Stop doing it coz you’re killing the genre. I see too many excuses for Drake egregious laziness and scam artistry in hip hop. Drake can’t ever be in a any rap GOAT conversations coz he doesn’t tell his stories but other people’s stories with their lyrics, cadence and flow. Drake is nothing short of a Britney Spears. Why would you lie to die on that hill killing hip hop doing so? This is disappointing coming from you guys. There are rules to this game. We can’t let a Canadian actor turned karaoke rapper break and rewrite the rules of this genre established 50 years ago.
@AS-of1cs All the Hip Hop "authorities" make excuses for Drake. In many ways, he has similar issues that Eminem is discredited for - his fans don't listen to Hip Hop, his fans are mostly white, etc - yet for Drake, it doesn't matter. In fact it's a win for him, because he can't be taken down, and these guys celebrate that. Make that, make sense.
Hey thanks for featuring my comment from the last episode! I really do enjoy these healthy debates. No one gets childish, no one raises their voice to push their opinion. It's all mature. This is great.
Drake lucky this not the 90s and 00s anymore because if references tracks came of Hov or Nas they’d be PACKED TF OUTTA HERE! Drake will never be respected or considered in the GOAT debates as a MC. It effects his legacy weather people wanna admit it or not!
Naaa lol he we still be respected as one of the greatest artist of all time which I think he wants. He needs one more record to beat Micheal just remeber that
@@arthurcaldwell6822you people think it’s all about quantity. That’s the problem. Drake is literally a puppet for more talented composers to perform with. He’s not one of the greatest artists of all time. Greatest actor acting as a rapper, for sure. Hell if we’re talking ART, Tyler even wipes the floor with him along with 50 more artists that actually have nuanced self identity in their work. We know NOTHING of what Drake is like as a person through his work. The closest we ever got was him giving out money on camera as a music video lol dude is the corniest of the corn
As far as credited writers.... Why does OVO Hush (Anthony Palman) have so many writing credits on drake albums? Specifically songs like The Ride & Tuscan Leather, but many, many more? 👀
@@duderap so you're ok with someone on his team writing for him but not someone who isn't OVO? That makes no sense to me. If we can agree he is a good performer, but not an emcee, I'm cool with anyone writing for him.
Can’t believe we living in a time where if you have a reference track so called hip hop journalist are making excuses for it on top of lying saying fans don’t care…absolutely hilarious…I may not ever in life play another Drake record due to his soft fan base along with how compromised everyone is from a simple lost….on another note shout out DJ Hed almost turned this off if it wasn’t for his raw honesty
If Drake views Kanye as more on "his level" Why didn't he reply to Kanye's disstrack instead? What a load of garbage when airheads have a platform. Also you can't be a goat if you don't write your shit.
@@hiphopdx I'm talking about this time during the Kendrick-Drake beef, Kanye did release a diss track right? If he viewed Kanye as more of a worthy competitor in comparison to Kendrick why wasn't his priority Kanye instead of Kendrick? I'm not buying that he didn't take Kendrick seriously excuse you try to paint to the public. If u have memory Wilson, in an interview u did with Drake he did say the people he sees as his competition is Kendrick and Cole. Drake took this as seriously as his talent and intellect could take him and he lost. Kendrick is just a different Beast!
@@RychAhlberg When Drake held Kanye in high regard about 10ish years ago. Pretty much the same era when Drake said *(I'm paraphrasing)* " I know good and goddamn well Kendrick's not murdering me on any playform ever." This was before DAMN/More Life, before Kanye upped his erratic behavior, before the Pusha battle. I feel like sentiments have changed since then.
No he isn’t he NEVER was Hip Hop. Sheep fans who don’t know about Foundational Black American culture fail to realize that Rapping isn’t singular to Hip Hop. Drake is POP RAPPER. Em is POP MC. 👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾
@@RockLee-q1g yes he is. He never was Hip Hop. Industry 🪴 NEED Black ppl to help legitimize them. Like Dre to Em and J Prince and Wayne to Drake. If it wasn’t for them they wouldn’t be excepted. He also has songs disrespecting our women and saying the n word. He’ll never be a icon/GOAT in our culture foh.
I mean, I’m a certified Drake hater but I get what he’s saying. Drake’s been conditioned to have like *the* most mainstream sound possible. With that in mind, he can take an upcoming artist’s song or sound, and deliver it in a way that’s palatable to a wider audience. He’s a good artist, he just does a lot of shady & questionable shit.
Bruh if he can't write 10 bands or Jumbotron, what makes yall think he can write AM/PM series? He shoots videos and performs songs he know he ain't write....
This was a fun episode because the writing conversation needs more nuance than it gets. Drake and Ye’s careers are complicated if you look at them as just rappers but as artists they utilized collaboration to get to the top
This is absolutely my new favorite hiphop pod. The three of y’all have a perfect dynamic and actually intelligent perspectives (something really lacking in hiphop media today).
Yall I really like this podcast with all of you guys. I think I might just turn into a regular viewer. Everybody brings their own interesting Elements to the table to have this weekly discussion. It's great
Eliott can someone get this old man a brain. Yes as a gen Z, I care that rappers write their shit. Most of us care I promise. Kendrick is the greatest rapper of our generation. No debate!
Hip hop is dead and I’m watching ovo fans spear head it, no drake can’t be in the same discussions with the rappers who actually rap n create their own concepts and flows this should be obvious is he an incredible artist yes can’t take that away from him but he is no long the top or best RAPPER at the end of the day when drake n Kendrick steps in a room wit the real rappers we know who’s getting the love.
I'm cool with more collaboration. Let's just be open and honest about the fact that you're collaborating. Stop trying to make it seem like you're the guy you're not. And that's okay. You still perform really well and add something to the piece, but if you're going to collaborate, give the other artists that do credit not just in the credits cuz no one assumed that vory and that much, but make it clear that you're simply the performer
I could relate to DJ Hed on his Westside Connection story. Except my Bow Down was “Gangsta Nation” back in 2003. That along with Nelly, Ja Rule and Big Tymers is what really got me into hip hop besides the MMLP back in 2000. But before all that, we had The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill in the house so I was listening to that one often. I was bumping MMLP daily as a 9 year old when it came out on my sister’s radio’s cd player. Then 50 Cent came out, that was explosive and then NBA Street Volume 2 is what got me into oldschool hip hop too back in 03 limewire days. Hov was retiring so that’s when I got into his music too then Kanye’s The College Dropout was released on AOL Music back in 2004 and was so good I had to get the physical CD to play the album front to back every day.
I don't think he meant his take on this one. I just think he didn't wanna be seen as a Drake hater, so he tried his best to downplay the ghostwriter conversation. It's so crazy that none of those guys were brave enough to call a spade a spade. Them sugarcoating around this shit made me so mad. Because how dare you put a rapper who works their brain to pen their shit to an actor who reads scripts in the booth. L Take👎
It’s okay they contradicted themselves the entire segment. “References are fine” and then “if there was a reference for back to back it would take away from the record”. Old man waffling. I’m not mad though… their opinion 🤷🏾♀️
This whole discussion about whether or not it’s cool to have writers in hiphop is why Drake is poison to this culture. Smh I can’t believe people. No integrity. F it, let’s go with the money. And the funny thing is, rap is DOWN. It’s DOWN. During Drake’s rein, hiphop DIED and y’all are up here giggling about it. Smh
I like this pod. A lot. That being said, Elliot is a SERIAL interruptor. They do an amazing job of pushing through n getting their point out but sometimes it seems like Hed was bout to tell us something we wouldn't normally hear n Elliot tells the most unnecessary joke n Hed moves on or goes wit his 1st instinct to keep it to himself
YOU lied about religious views /YOU LIED about your surgery/YOU LIED about your accent & ya past tense all of its PERJURY/ YOU LIED ABOUT YO GHOSTWRITER 😂😂😂💎💎💎 REALEST BARZ IVE HEARD IN A WHILE 🥋Kenny!!!
I honestly think Drake woulda never had problems with anyone if he woulda never acted like he was the best rapper out and just rocked with the “I’m a pure artist that strives to make the best songs possible” steez. Rapper cats that write they own stuff saw him as “juicing” on some Sammy Sosa/Mark McGuire shit. Hip hop fans 100% care when it comes to “top rapper” claims. You gotta write your own shit if you claiming King.
Saying Invasion Of Privacy is the last great female rapper album is crazy to me when Little Simz dropped 3 albums since that one that are INFINITELY better.
Love the show! Please keep it coming!!!! The recent beef brought a bunch of outsiders into the convo but yall are real students of the game!!!!! Jeremy keep pushing Youngblood!! You are a student turning into a professor! Don’t let em knock you down!!!
Solid ep. DJ Hed is keeping it real, no sugarcoat! I figured a lot of top rappers had help/collabed with others for hooks etc etc.. He gave credit where credit was due & gave a "hot take/opinion" on collaborations all while putting to bed false claims that Back2Back was written by Daylyt.
Its funny how he didn’t want play the song because ovo wont like it but its the truth. Why are they hiding things. Kanye is never pissed about references or people saying they wrote something. Its the fakeness i dont like.
One of the best comments is the clock goes forward. Wake up people, I’m older but I understand things can’t stay the same and actually they probably never was what we thought. Time to accept every GREAT one has collaborated and they ALL write great bars and know their stuff. Just how it is the music business. It’s not easy.
The only time reference tracks/ghostwriters become a problem is when you compare artists or artist compete against each other. However, in terms of general music success & appreciation for an artist, if they consistently put out good music that's all that should matter.
In the hip hop/MC verses RnB singer comparison, I think the reason no one cares that singers has writers and collaborators is bc to be a singer you have to be gifted with the talent of a beautiful singing voice, not necessarily the creativity. Therefore you may need help to create. Whereas, a rapper uses your speaking voice. The basis of your talent is how your mind creates/ your creativity, your poetry, your pen.
Drake has been using multiple writers since day 1. Anthony palman aka hush wrote alotta Drake classics, Quentin Miller, Vory,Beam, PND, Cash Cobain, Yachty and early on Kanye (find your love etc)
It comes down to merit. If you're using ghostwriters to make the best song you can possibly make then no harm no foul. The moment you try to pass off being the "best rapper" while being fed things to say you go from artist to fraud real quick. Drake wants to have his cake and eat it to. He wants to utilize a sweatshop of ghostwriters and collaborators while also taking the credit for being the king of rap. If he would pick a lane there wouldn't be an issue here. No one cares that Kanye has ghostwriters because Kanye isn't out here claiming to be the greatest lyricist.
Gotta write ya own bars to be in the GOAT conversation. If not then we’re all on a level field with no artist showing their artistic side with talent, the ability to differentiate from your peers is ESSENTIAL..!!!
Mainstream fans and fans of certain artists don't care. Hip-Hop fans care and know the difference between a rapper and a MC. Iggy Azalea, Chris Brown, Beyonce and others rap but no one confuses them with MCs. Drake is a Pop artist and actor who raps. He's not an MC. Elliott Wilson's logic is how Hip-Hop culture dies and becomes appropriated like all the other genres of music that were created by Blacks in America.
Literally no one: Elliot Wilson: I'm from New York. 😂 Love the show guys. 1. Will you guys address any battles you'd like to see or wish you could have seen. Like fantasy hip hop brackets. I don't ever want them to beef but in a fantasy Id love Kdot vs. Pusha T. Theyre both unmerciful and talented. But I hope it never happens. Tell me y'all's dream battles! 2. I want a cross-gender battle. I would like Nicki, Rapsody, Whack, Meg, Cardi or Latto to knock the head off a big male rapper so we can stop this segregation. Not just subs.. like full beefs with diss tracks. Meg dipped her toe on Drake and i want more. Why the girls only beefing with girls? It's hip hop- anybody can get it!!! Is this feasible or would people say it's unfair? Could a male rapper respond and be respected? Can we ever outgrow the "female rapper" qualification? When will they just be RAPPERS? Damn
Y’all mixy. I look forward to this show every week now. Unfiltered without being too over the top or reactive (except for the album of the year in May, that’s wild).
Like this show a lot . But I wish Elliott Wilson would let people talk without interrupting. Every episode he’ll giggle us to death and over talk everyone. Outside of that I love the podcast.
Vince one of the dopest MC'S but in all reality I don't think he gives asf about being in covo of who's the best make his art and keep it moving glad he getting his flowers he definitely deserves it
My expectations for this album is that it'll be conceptual with skits throughout, and Eminem will officially put his alter ego to rest towards the end, so that people would stop asking for Slim Shady, because its not realistic as he's old and just doesn't have that same rage he had in the 2000s anymore. Judging by the announcement teaser, it may have a true crime like narrative as a creative way to guide us through the album. Also, with Fredwreck saying Dre and ICU (producers of Dre Compton) are the main producers on DoSS, that leads me to believe it have cinematic tone with each track blending seamlessly into the next. That gives me hope that the production will be consistent and amazing. They're the same producers who produced Lock It Up which was a standout for me on MtbMB.
