CC is available if you can’t decipher my mumbling. When will I stop yelling into the void about Drakengard 3? (Never) music by Aether: Aetheraudio open.spotify.com/artist/5UyjnQfu4OsLGiOi3sIoEN ▶️ Reawaken
The reason I didn't include any examples in this video is because I don't feel as if it would have helped unless the viewers themselves speak both English and Japanese. The people who are upset that I didn't include any though: you're literally on RU-vid, the Japanese original is only a few clicks away. (I'll even help you along the way. Type in ドラッグ オン ドラグーン3 and have a blast.) What I'm trying to convey in the video is that much has to do with her attitude and her tone, not so much the lines themselves. Meaning that if you don't understand Japanese, you're very likely not going to get what I'm talking about. In Japanese she's laid-back and aloof. In English she's feisty and aggressive. Unless you understand both of these languages it's going to be hard to read the characters and understand their characterization based on short examples only.
maybe in japanese it sounds that she's more of a brash and awful chracter having that kind of tone. hmm. is it a culture difference? but you're right. the laziness here or something is not a good thing. there exists a thing called transliteration but i guess that's as good as it gets. and can't be done if there's voice lines and time to sync it to. on the bright side, the big picture is that these ideas are translateable. language and even culture have more similarities than differences. then again the small things cause the most hang ups
I wish the subtitles for NieR: Automata when playing in Japanese actually were for what was being said, and not the same stuff as the English dialogue.
The Nekomancer yeah that caused me very serious frustration. The change in 2B's character is intense enough that if I want the Japanese version character, I should get a translation of how the voice is actually acting.
It was posible with Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (then properly renamed Akumajō Dracula X: Nocturne in the Moonlight). It just needs talented and committed volunteers.
Unless the dialogue is so different that it warrants a better translation then it's mostly about the performance, don't forget that the way you say something could completely change the meaning of what your saying
What a lot of people don't realize is that, like dubs, subs are inaccurate too. Of course not _as_ inaccurate, because oftentimes with dubs, whatever team is in charge of them takes too many creative liberties with it.
I still think "You think I came all the way here for a fucking picnic?!" will be one of my favorite lines of dialogue in any medium. I would still like to watch all the cutscenes in Japanese to get that delicious developer intent. I'd like to get to know Zero beyond the brash.
I'm gonna pretend English zero and Japanese zero are like Papa Nier and Brothef Nier. Both technically the same game but the slight change in the main character can make the overall tone a bit different.
Yeah most people I know IRL who are like Zero in every other way, tend to be a bit more stoic and quiet. I love raging idiot Zero but stoic would work great too. Now I want to replay in Japanese since I understand it a little bit. Though I assume if a remake ever comes out, it's gonna be closer to the Japanese version just because English Zero is too unhinged for modern audiences lol
I think people overestimate the differences between the two versions. Japanese tends to be a more softspoken language than english is, but if we take these inherent differences into the comparision between the characters, the results end up overexaggerated and we can't really measure by how much. Furthermore, people who don't speak both languages fluently will interpret what they hear largely how they want to hear it in a kind of aural kuleshov-effect
The same thing happened with Noctis from FF15. A shy stoic teen from the Japanese standpoint is a cocky ass adolescent when translated to English. IV always wondered why. characters brought in should remain how they were designed, but they seem like different characters all together when localized.
I always saw Noctis as a cocky adolescent edgey punk just from the trailer years before the game came out, before I ever heard him speak; just based on his actions.
I prefer the English Zero because she's just funnier. Also, her voice, just like her actions, contrasts her appearance. You look a Zero and you see a beautiful young maiden which contrasts the foul-mouthed murder she is. Her Dub voice is just so much more fun to listen to.
She looks like a foul hoe to me with that fit. Cut out dress showing just about everything, only 1 small scissor cut away from being a bikini, leather and lace lingerie exposed at the sides.
Got into drakengard because of demolition_d+'s video of same subject matter. Your video does a lot to add to that. Translators should read that subtlety when localizing a game.
I've only played in English, and whenever people tell me the difference between English and Japanese I'm always confused because I fell like English Zero is still the same character whenever they are describing Japanese Zero.
The best comparisons are her interactions with Michael and Mikhail. He's basically the only thing Jp zero really cares about and you can tell. Ending E especially
Same here....It's going to be very hard to find and English voice actor that can mimic the Japanese one perfectly, so you're gonna get some performance differences. I think it's more that Tara Platt's voice naturally has a deeper tone to it, while the Japanese one doesn't, so the English lines come out a little deeper and forceful. They're voices sound very different, but to me their line delivery is very close to each other. Listen here - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oK4wzv7yJ3A.html
@@DogiTheWallcrusher You mean Ending D? I'd say that's where English Zero is most stoic and caring, when watching this video I thought it basically means Japanese Zero is route D Zero for the whole game.
As someone who is a bilingual (Hindi and English) , I've same thoughts on translations as well. There are many phrases, with different meaning depending on where you are from, which have don't have the same impact if translated directly.
I still like English Zero and think she works a bit better for the tone of the translation, but this video made me really appreciate that things did get lost in the change of the character. I'm not really sure Japanese Zero would've worked as well for a humorous game over here, but, y'know, it's hard to say.
Woah such a good video!! Translations are so wild to me. On one hand I love the idea of meaning changing within a translation--that the original or authorial intent is shifted in ways that create almost a new work since the translator is unavoidably going to put part of themselves into whatever they are doing. I think that's rad n bad. At the same time, a big ol' personality change like Zero here is a bit much, yeah? Especially since it's a game and we aren't going to ever get another translation of it which does things differently. And since Taro's writing is SO unique and his, I can't help but want as close to his original ideas as possible. Bleh. I'm just forever stuck between being kind of into the change bc I'm a pretentious dumbo, and wanting that OG baybeee
As a former translator myself I love your take on the subject of translation and I praise the maturity and knowledge you show while speaking of the matter. Great video.
That's funny 'cause I honestly loved Enlglish Zero. I've never been a fan of the stoic "I have to do this 'cause I have to" protags-- whether they be male or female. I even get aggravated at the side characters that have this state of mind to them. It's just something about the contrast between them normally and when they actually do have a serious moment. Zero's cockiness was also very comedic to me 'cause she would act like she could do anything but then she'd get--yanno--pierced through the chest and destroyed multiple times in a row only to come back even more pissed and fed up. I've played both versions of the game and have revisited each game in the series multiple times throughout the years and honestly Zero and Kaine have both been two of my favorites out of all of the characters. They both bring a sense of realism to their casts. I just feel like the more composed, duty-bound characters don't bring as much impact. I can tell you that I did not cry near as much at the end of the Japanese version as I did the English. To see that confident, headstrong woman finally show compassion and a twinge of regret for what she had drug everyone through broke me. It made all the moments where she had acted like she didn't give a crap feel like they were all a facade. If she had acted so mature and motherlike the entire game those feelings would have never surfaced inside me at that moment. But it's like you said-- everyone is allowed to like what they like and it's all just preferences. It just left a harder impact on me in those low points in the English version than it did in the Japanese.
I also failed to mention that Zero acting the way she did in the English version also felt like she was kind of the embodiment of all of the Intoners. I know you like the idea of her being the closest to One but it feels like she has a connection with all of them more if she has a bit of everyone in her. I don't know. Once again it plays on my love for realistic characters.
Yes thank you,I also do not enjoy the stoic calm types with nothing much else going for them. I enjoy explosive personalities,probably because I'm such a calm stoic person ill. Haha
I agree with you. I love English Zero because she's sarcastic, witty, angry, arrogant, petty and straight to the point. She knows what she has to do and she is doing it as quickly as she can and as flashy as she can to prove a point. She even says that if anyone gets in her way she will kill them because at the end of the day they are her enemies as well. I also like her repressed emotions towards Michael and Mikhail and their chemistry was amazing along with the other Intoner Guardians. If she was mother-like and calm I doubt I would have liked her as much because she wouldn't have that punch and her character motions and expressions wouldn't match (someone who is calm and mother-like wouldn't kill fairies by punching them all of a sudden); she'd be just like every other stoic character out there.
i still love Zero regardless of vocal representation but because her character itself. it might had just been me but i could read between the lines and see the things that set english and japanese zero apart, but this wasnt till after i saw Demo's review and played through it again after competing my first round. i still think Tara did a good Zero but like you state, its how the localization director wanted it.
In my fic, because I have the Luteces accompany Accord, I found a way to include these two facets of hers. She's pretty much what the "Bioshock" twins are in one body. I think that's the most accurate way to portray her.
Great video as usual. I remember playing the game in English, and seeing a really significant difference in her personality when I read the novellas. This is what prompted me to try the Japanese voices. The original and dub are two sides of the same coin, yet there's such a world of difference. It's quite interesting.
I like the English dub Zero a lot. Didn't know the Japanese version was different. At this point I've grown attached to the English dub zero and I'd probably still like her more than the Japanese one. It still sucks that they changed it though. :/
So damn true, and this only hurts my soul more knowing I'll never be able to understand the Japanese versions, and even if it could the c8ltureal difference will still shut me out of the intended meaning of the dialogue. There are still ways of making localisations work as the creators intended though. It isn't as if people like the intended version of Zero (and Noctis as you've mentioned previously) don't exist in western cultures. I just don't see why we're force fed characters who are basically stereotypes or are seen as being more relatable.
Very well made video :). Although it's off topic I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the final boss. It was a massive challenge to overcome it but at the same time it's the most memorable experience I have from that game and one of my most memorable gaming experiences in general :). Keep up the good work anyways!
As a language student myself also intrested in translation and localisation, I'd really love to hear more from you about this topic, maybe regarding other videogames charachters who ended up "lost in translation". Unfortunately there are a lot of cases of "meh" localisation as well out there, I'm sure you are aware of that. One that I remember well is the one from Ace Attorney, which was originally set in Japan, but then when it came to the west they switched Japan for the US, even though the game contained clear Japanese cultural elements in it. But anyway, awesome video as always, I really like this "insight video" you're doing lately, keep up the good work!
You clearly said here the major arguments in an objective way. Thank you. Now, each time I will debate on this subject, I will direct the people here. On a side note : like the voice actors, the translator often have directive from the localization team (not the translator, but "business men"), wich mean being a translator (in video game, book or anything) is a difficult job in any side xD... Truly, it's probably pissing them off for not being able to stay true to the source material.
While I prefer playing the entire series of Drakengard and NieR in English, I understand that stuff like this happens in the localization process, and I'm glad you made a video about this. As I mentioned before, I like English Zero, but she does tend to come off as an edgelord in comparison to how she is in Japanese, and I noticed people mentioned 2B in the comments as well, this is also something that bugged me in English, because I find English 2B very bland not really due to the voice actor, but because of the direction she was given. As a voice actor and a Director, translations and directions can usually make or break a character when having to dub them, and while I only got into the series back in December of 2016, I see everything you and the people in the comments are talking about, Japanese and English Drakengard & NieR are very different, albeit having the same plot. Ultimately, I just see it as interesting instead of being outright a disappointment or a butchering...except for toning down Drakengard 1 in the west. The only main issue I have with 3's dub is just the lip syncing, because I really want to know what the hell happened there.
HerotonAlmighty2011 I agree. There is somethings that I love about Zero in English. She does add more to the wackiness of the game, giving it a more comedic feeling. What was lost was definitely(albeit somewhat) vital for the character. However, I do not think it was destroyed. I don't mind stoic/mature characters but I've seen one too many(same for the hot head but she added to the games wild nature as said before). Even the JAP dub, I wasn't fully interested into her character as much as I was in in the English since she was so wild and unpredictable(same for both versions in a way). But at the same time, I also love the more calmer Zero. Both version I feel, compliment each other despite them being isolated(Jap version just has more content to her character). They are different, although I enjoy the different interpretations of the characters.
it's also one of the reasons I own both versions of NieR, mostly because despite having the same story, Gestalt and RepliCant FEEL different excluding the obvious change of main character
I've heard the japanese version has a lot of interesting subtext that comes about because of brother nier, actually. That's part of why I would like for us to get a proper localization of Replicant someday, though I doubt it'll ever happen.
I don't know how Japanese 2B is, but I agree English 2B was very much lacking. I very much love the English Zero though, as I can relate to her on an outer level more than basically any other character I've witnessed. Sometimes I would even say something based on what happened in the game, and Zero would say the exact thing right after, it was amazing. I also agree that they're just different, not a destruction of the original idea. Something not being exactly how it was originally intended, doesn't automatically make it bad.
English 2B is a lot snarkier and more sarcastic, so I dunno where you got the idea that English 2B is bland. If anything, that's more Japanese 2B since she's meant to be a classic emotionless robot girl.
9S Lost in Translation please? I played Nier: Automata with the original Japanese voices and the subtitles often didn't match what he said + listening to the actual ENG voice it's very obvious for some reason he went from being a polite/soft-spoken/positive or cheerful to being this... outgoing jokester. 9S is my favorite character; I know a lot of people that played the English version dislike him and after seeing his attitude in the game I completely understand why. Although it's been a long time since I played the game so I can't explain it as clearly, I don't recall the Japanese 9S being so... brash or joking around so often (actually, he basically never said a joke? Like, ever? Yet in the English version that seems to be a defining trait of his). Japanese 9S took his missions and work pretty seriously, even if he wasn't as uptight as 2B.
fascinating video sophie it is indeed weird when characters are changed when localized the one i noticed only after i starting watching dragon ball super is how in american dragon ball goku is portrayed in a more heroic light as to watching super in sub he's more selfish but both don't paint him as a good father at least xD
I agree that the English was not bad, in fact it was great and in a way with all square enix games I play them twice in both languages for two different tones and sometimes even stories. FF9 is where it started for me, it was the first game I played in the original Japanese vo and then English, but wasn't till several years later with DG3 that I had a better grasp of both languages, both tonely and cultural meaning behind usage of wordsthat I understood that I experiencing two different stories. And went back and played a lot of games in both languages over again and was thrilled at how much better I understood both perspectives. And my final contribution about the translation for DG3, during an interview with someone forgot who as this was years ago, I read that when they got the script from the Japanese studio there was no mention of zeros tone or character traits, so when the translation was done the director and voice actor though she was basically what the English voice ended up as, bitchy angry feisty. Which we have to admit she pulled off damn well, to be fair if you read a westernized translation of DG3 I'd think the same. I havent finished N:A yet either but I feel the same with the two voices, but isn't as far off as with DG3.
That is why I always as much as possible watch/play mediums in their original languages (be it Japanese, Thai, Cantonese, Spanish, French, German, etc) ; they are the works under the _direct supervision_ of the director/writer, thus closest to the original intent and vision. I think one production that didn't really have an "original language" is CD Projekt Red's *Witcher 3* but I still played the game in Polish rather than English.
I think the original Nier had the best localization in a long time. Making the relationship between the main character and his ''sister'' to a relationship between a father and her daughter. Those are actions that have very minor effects on storyline but can make a big difference between reletable feelings for a whole different culture.
I first completed drakengrd 3 in english and I loved sass-angry-at-everyone-with-a-mean-streak Zero. Then I replayed with the japanese voices and... I love Zero just as much for her calm and just doing what must be done self. I usually go for japanese voices when given the choice, but in that case I was glad to experiece both. They're, as you said, two different persons and both are enjoyable for what they are xD However, with the cutscenes and movies, one can feel that the japanese Zero fits better (the prologue with all the sisters chatting, for example: Zero doesn't look pissed off but more... well, I wouldn't say benevolent, but she definitely holds no malice at that moment, it's clear she doesn't hate them but only does what she knows what must be done). I was more into it with her japanese voice during cutscenes, but fights are fun with her english voice xD That ended up being one long comment to say not so much u_u Wanted to share my own experience of both, something like that.
I found your channel since I got interested in Drakengard, and I really liked some of your other videos as well, being a fan of Nier too. Then I watched this video and I must say I disagree with you about Zero. Ok, I played the game in english and never saw the cutscenes in japanese, but everything that you said here about Zero's personality in the japanese version is exactly what I thought about her playing the game in english. I confess that, since the beggining, I had the sensation of Zero being very responsible and driven by some goal that was hidden from me. Also, the only instances in the game that I found slightly odd was the lines during fights where Zero scream things loudly, like "die, die, DIE", that was not matching correctly with her tone in other times. But, for me, the localization translated very well. Nevertheless, I do see your point in this video and I must agree that a better localization could have being done, with a more monotone voice to imply a more "cold" personality, as to speak. I know this video is not about this, but since we are talking about Zero: I absolutely agree with you about Zero's character being a complex and very interesting one. I knew I would like the game, but I didn't expect to like Zero that much, and also the other intoners. Maybe, Zero is the first female character that I played that completely took the spotlight of the game in a very meaningful and profound way, considering that most female characters are either not well developed, or have common and predictable stories. The other good one I remember writing this is Lightning, but I would say Zero is more complex, haha!
Zero was never meant to be "cold" either, though. In her original Japanese portrayal, she comes off as more lazy and even slightly ditzy sometimes. Despite her sense of duty spurring her on, she is still regularly seen having an intolerance for bullshit and tedium, but not in the angry way her English counterpart conveys. So when she says things like "Be quiet or I'll kill you" etc, it's more soft and lacking any heat, to sound totally at odds with the actual words and giving the obvious impression that she's not actually bothered enough to follow through. For me, that's where a lot of her charm lies. English Zero meanwhile sounded abrasive to me in nearly every scene, like a bomb ready to go off in your face at any second.
Yes. So much yes! Thank you Valkyrie. The entire Final Fantasy XIII trilogy suffered from localization changing the original tone and even important plot concepts.
Having an English dubbed character's personality changed from their source is not necessarily a bad thing. I personally thought Zero's English version being more vulgar and rude added something to the impact the game had on me. Taking liberties in translation can be great because it creates two unique experiences that can still both be accessed separately. Since I enjoyed both the English and Japanese versions, I am glad that the localization team made the decision they did so I was able to have multiple interpretations of the same game.
I think it was a good change. It's a shame some of the intentional gets lost but I think it's a different experience. Maybe it's because I don't speak Japanese but I really enjoy Tara Platt's Zero. We don't get many strong, assertive and brash female protagonists in games and anime, and certainly less that swear like a pissed off sailor. Also, Tara's voice has some sort of maternal vibe that I think syncs with Zero's character very well.
@@zinzolin14 there's "strong, assertive, and brash", and then there's the raging lunatic we got in the English dub. I'm not saying you shouldn't like it, but I think we should have gotten a more accurate Zero.
@@christopherbravo1813 The problem is that she isn’t a raging lunatic in the English dub and it’s execution like that that adds a different layer of complexity to an existing character. Neither Japanese or English Zero are better or worse than eachother but English zero is definitely easier to “dislike”, because of her harshness and how much more of Tara Platt’s performance you need to read between the lines for. There’s a lot of depth to both interpretations and reducing either one of them to “boring” or “bitchy” is ridiculously reductive of the passion and care that was put into them.
I guess it is interesting to know, but I still really enjoyed Zero’s English voice to the point that she became a sort of roleplay inspiration for me for awhile. for me I’d say it did eventually become clear that she cared for Mikhail above all else, I just took it as a sort of pride thing that she wouldn’t show it obviously unless things were serious. I did see some delivery comparisons on RU-vid and I think the emotion and tone of voice was often pretty close, but English doesn’t have as many nuances when it comes to politeness/formalness as Japanese does, and Japanese doesn’t have as many curse words (in the same connotation as English), so that’s always the first aspect to get muddied up I’d say.
Although there was one minor line that always cracked me up: In the sand ruins Dito mentions that zero is “crude” and “once saw her eat raw meat off the ground” saying that she was cruder than a dog (which Octa finds arousing) Come on, if that’s in the Japanese version unless it was meant as pure sarcasm I think that speaks to a certain level of unrestraint that you see in her English portrayal.
I enjoyed her personality in the English Drakengard 3, I probably would have appreciated her character and the game as a whole more with her original personality. I still had a lot of fun with Drakengard 3's English version so I'm not upset :3 But it's nice to gain some insight into her real personality, even if it's like this and not during the actual game!
I always play/watch the subbed version. At first I don't understand what they're saying but after 2-3 years I begin to understand what they're saying, even when i don't understand I find some scene to be very funny because of the voice acting and when I turn to the dubbed version, that funny scene is just gone. There is something about japanese voice that makes them funny, like when they say "EEEEEHHHHH~!"
People often ask me (well, they yell at me in anger and call me a weeb) why I prefer the original Japanese voices rather than listening to the English dub. I prefer the original over dubs in all media, no matter what language is being translated (I won't play an English game with Jpn dub either), because I want to experience the developers vision of the game, not someone's interpretation of it.
i saw a video that demolition d made about drakengard 3. i think he talks about this issue extensively, and it is a fairly good review. you should watch it
it makes me sad knowing that I will probably live my life never being able to experience this game.. (mostly because its only on ps3 and I dont have access to any play station at all) I play on xbox
The only real reason I play the English version (even though I did buy the original Japanese dub) is because when watching an anime I usually have no qualms with watching the sub. even preferring it. But when it comes to a video game it's way more fast paced and unable to pause or repeat certain lines of dialogue. I agree with eveverything you're saying, sadly not all of us are fluent in more than 1 language, let alone 3
You've made a sh*t-ton of videos about reading between the lines in Japanese games. That's kind of crazy. But its cool to see someone passionate about a subject that isn't widely understood. Yup.
I don't care which language she is portrayed in or how she may have been portrayed differently, Zero is a fantastic character through and through, and my personal favorite of Taro's characters. Just wanted to say that.
Hmm personally I actually prefer Eng Dub Zero, I love the voice actors work, I like the direction even if in parts its a little cheezy, it makes the ultimate reveal all the more feelsy and shocking. I havent found anything that indicates that Yoko Taro didnt have a hand in the direction of the localisation in this instance, and it may have been his vision to present a different perspective, just like the difference between Gestalt vs RepliCant
I love Zero's localization. Think of it like Nier Gestalt vs Replicate. Her JPN voice is offensive to JPN mores but for the west? she's just slightly brash. ENG Zero gets the same reaction from an ENG audience as a JPN Zero gets form a JPN audience. At least that's how I see it. We can also play DoD3 in both languages for a different experience. When can I play young Nier?
To be honest this change of character happens a lot in localization, but it seems in my experience with comparing dubs with the original Japanese that female characters who are adept at fighting or exude the aura of being "strong" in some way seem to fall victim to this the most. I don't know if we in the West just have this weird misconception that "powerful woman" has to equal "foul mouthed with a bitchy temper that just screams tryhard edgy" for people to take them seriously, but it really gets on my nerves when it's so common and extreme to the point where people playing the same game but in different languages have 100% different interpretations of even some of the most basic character traits. As stated in the video, translation and especially localization to make said translations make actual sense in a different language/culture is necessary and very difficult to find a good balance for. But it's their job, and it still just baffles me how it's so common to outright lie to the viewers about the original intent or characterization for seemingly no reason. It's so unnecessary and strikes me as downright disrespectful to the creator and players/viewers.
Good points. I don't think I'll ever push through Drakengard 3, and a part of it definitely is Zero being a raging asshole. Interesting to see localization played a part. If I need to choose between extremes, I'm going to choose a goody-good guy like Nowe, even if that can make for some boring parts; and honestly, though we can say Nowe is a generic JRPG protagonist, Yoko Taro clearly has a thing for white-haired hotties to the point that they're definitely cliché in that context. Too bad. After beating D1, D2, N1, N2...was hoping to finish it out.
Geoffrey.R Hsu bruh your answer even More bullshit than mine. Perhabs he cant play the game ? No ps3 or no money at the Moment to spent for this game lol
That's why I order the game day1 and never played it until the patch came out a few months with a fix for European version to be able to play with the original voice. Besides, one should always play the game in the most original form, by using the original stuff that were made and intended for the game originally. Let the subtitles fill you in the detailed stuf, and use your hears to grasp the true meanings and complemente your ideas with whats written on the subs. Besides, lets face it, Japanese voice actors are professionals, that trained everyday for this matter and are picked after long audiences. Their job is taken seriously and to heart, unlike any outsider dubber (be it english, german, french, w/e) that's only there to fill a temporary role occasionally when their their main jobs are on hold and need to grab some fast bucks.
Any chance you do a Lore Play (or at least a Let's Play) of the game? I was really interested in it, but never managed to get it, and after finding the story of the whole series is so complex, with different endings and timelines, I'm even more interested. Another comment pointed this out: What about a Lost in Translation about FFXIII? I love the English dub, especially Light's VA, but I wonder how the characters were originally.
