Maybe you're always ahead of the curve, but I'm sure most of your audience won't be. I see much more value in Feral Instinct than Thick Hide, and After Feline Swiftness I would go Nature's Grasp into Feral Charge. These two abilities will give any pvp player so much utility and it will completely change your experience for pvp while leveling. Nature's Grasp at level 46 imo is a waste for an ability that only requires 1 point. Delaying FC for 10 levels doesn't sound too bad but I would still take it at level 23 nonetheless (not 33). On a more personal note, I go for omen of clarity after Feral Charge and then 5/5 Furor and 3/3 Natural Shapeshifter (I don't know if it's optimal, its just the way i want to play it). I can understand wanting to go deep into feral first given that it has some nice increases to dps that will make the fights go faster. What I love about druid is the versatility, so I feel like my build is more about being able to adapt to any situation, not so much leveling speed. I always watch your videos, keep it up!
Wife showed me this video, I had to pause it on Thick Hide. Worked out the math with her. We specced a lvl 35 druid with some nice greens, got 600 armor; rounded up to 700 to be nice. Then worked out the DR formula... going from 700 to 770 with this talent got us 1.3% additional DR. Against physical only. Not worth 5 talent points almost ever, definitely not during leveling. Paladins have a similar useless talent, plus imp devotion, and knowing those were garbo kind of set off alarms.
@@mechiah8054 Idk if this helps at all but I wrote that comment a while ago. Now i see a lot more benefit from Feral Agression than from Feral Instinct.Thanks for sharing the thick hide calculations btw, it's good to know that kind of stuff!
Hi mate, just wanted to thank you for all the druid content, i just started playing 2 days ago. I'm loving it so far, but there is so much to learn lol
Thank you for this. It's not boring it's much needed. I always try full bear as a cat I seem to need to heal a lot, but from watching your levelling you move a lot while in cat, bear seems to be easier for lower skill level. - Feral Aggression instead of Thick Hide - Primal Fury instead of Blood Frenzy
What do you like about Feral Aggression? Is it the improved Demo Roar? Because you don't get Ferocious Bite for quite awhile. I went with that but I'm always curious about Instinct. As a Night Elf, I do have innate improved stealth though.
Thanks for the info, the only thing I would change is thick hide is relatively useless as it doesn’t flow with the bear bonus, if it did absolutely but the extra threat generation is great for feral Druids who want to be able to tank while levelling and the prowl bonus is great post level 32 to help ease your stealth openers
Thanks for the video! One thing to discuss. Thick Hide instead Vs. Feral Instinct - I can only agree on that if you are not playing to go for a dungeons almost at all. What I feel is that without this talent it's much harder to hold an aggro as a Bear (and of course you are gonna go to dungeons as a bear most of the time). And it's always nice to have an improved stealth to skip some unwelcome fights with mobs and players. Armor is also nice, but I feel it won't be so impactful
Glad to see this comment, I went Feral instinct for the exact same reasoning and was doubting myself a little bit after seeing a few guides not even mention it.
Has anyone here tried splitting the difference between Instinct (a couple points) and something else (say, Aggression)? As a nightelf, I have improved stealth and my server isn't super populated (and hence, not too many PvP encounters) so I went 5 points Aggression. Still considering splitting the difference for versatility. What do people like most about Aggression, btw? Is it the improved Demo Roar? Because, it's not like you can make use of Ferocious Bite for quite some time.
Thx Ebbn very interesting. It always blows my mind to see people skip feral charge, but I see your perspective. As a stomping tauren without furor, FC isn't the game changer I find it to be as a night elf. I'm not convinced that going five points in resto after cat speed isn't what I'd still go for after watching this, but the video provided food for thought none the less. Also as an ally I find brutal impact useful for pvp, lacking warstomp, although staying ahead of the curve certainly makes sense from a pvp perspective.
@Brian What is feral charge going to help you with though? You won't have furor right away so you cant instantly shift forms and charge, and you also won't have a large mana pool to be shifting between cat and bear very much. I understand why people like feral charge, but in early pvp I don't think it will make a huge impact. Thats just my opinion though, like I said I don't get into that much pvp at the start.
Ebbnflow Good point, mana is a big problem at low lvls so switching to bear to charge may actually be a bad play in pvp. Only thing I can think of is that it would be useful when tanking dungeons. Not needed, but its only 1 point! :)
If you plan on doing any kind of tanking in low level dungeons. The extra threat is a must have instead of the tiny extra armor. Plus the extra stealth in pvp will be super useful. Druids get whispers all time. Hey wanna tank so and so. Good guide though
I agree almost 100% but getting furor is important. I generally race to feline swiftness then go back for furor then continue down feral. If it was a busy server I might get to Faerie fire (feral) first then grab furor (just to help with tagging). I really find that guaranteed energy far too useful to pass up when kitty is your main form
I was wondering if this would be a good option. I'm going to be leveling druid for the first time and thought this might be good for tanking dungeons to??
Personally id pick up furor, natures grasp, and charge right after feline swiftness but sticking to feral to get the better talents faster makes sense as far as efficiency. Great video, im enjoying the content!
Thanks Andrew, yeah like I said this is what I have found to work. But some druids swear by furor and NG while leveling, so I can see why you would go that route!
Thanks a lot man! This helped me out a lot.. Started as balance, so i can actually heal instances aswell.. But, so much down time, due to mana.. gona try feral. This helped me out a lot. cheers.
@LoveGun6669 sorry, poor wording from my part. I meant the best tank among decent leveling specs. Meaning that you can tank without having to trade off too many talent points.
What classes do you think druids pare well with when it comes to duo leveling? I've concidered duo leveling on my hunter and I think Hunter+Feral might be a good duo for speedleveling due to the movement speed increase they both get at lvl 20 (Hunter Aspect of the Cheetah + Druid gets increased movement speed in cat form through talents). What's your opinion on this?
Yeah hunter would be your best partner probably because of the movement speed. However I havent ever leveled in a duo before, its hard to rely on someone when you are pushing for 60. That being said if I did level with someone I think hunter would be great.
@@Ebbnflow Ayy thanks for the reply! And yeah I think relying on other people's schedules aligning with ur own etc might be the most difficult part of duo leveling, but I just feel like duo leveling is so much safer than solo :3
Real druids level balance. Feral is easy peasy. Especially if you've done it once. Never had more fun than leveling balance and enjoying the journey with being more tatical.
Hell yes I agree! If you get low on mana you can always go bear or cat for a few kills, then pop back to nuking mobs with Starfire after your mana is back
@@solmyr42 I'm planning on doing a 29/11/11 build, so insect swarm and feral charge (for PvP) But even without feral talents you can still happily kill a few mobs in cat/bear while your mana regenerates without any real issues :) even if you're a clothy, the bear armour bonus is still great
@@solmyr42 well to be honest I think it's mainly a world PvP 1v1 maybe 2v1 if you're good build. I wouldn't be going for the Starfire stun but in general pve lvling I would likely open with Starfire > roots > moonfire > insect swarm > and Starfire or wrath down depending on hp. But when it comes to PvP I believe the class would revolve around applying dots like your bleeds in cat plus your caster dots, getting them in roots and kiting until they are worn down. Maybe a wrath here and there. What build do you usually use?
This comes down to personal taste but I've leveled 5 druids to 60 on pservers (was my primary main back in retail vanilla too) and I now ALWAYS max Furor by the time I get cat at 20 and then continue down the feral tree. You delay cats +30% speed for 5 levels but the lower levels are your fastest and thus has the least impact. Why do I do this? Because of powershifting. Even only getting 30 energy back pre-Wolf Helm speeds up transition between mobs massively and increases usefulness in early dungeons. Claw spam is Cat's highest dps early before skill that do not come until mid 30's and Imp Shred can still be taken by 40 once you get your helm. I wouldn't deviate from this ever again.
So you don't use rip or shred in your 20s? I'm new to druids, so I'm still learning a lot. Do you open in cat form on most single target mobs? Do you throw up a rejuv or restoration before going into form? It's a little weird but I find that helps and is a pretty sustainable rotation. Resto or Rejov, sometimes Fairie Fire, into cat form and rush at them.
Disagree, Furor isn’t necessary at all, doesn’t speed leveling much at all. Powershifting especially lower level is just asking to go oom and have to waste time drinking. Kill kill heal, cat form and you have almost full energy by the time you reach the next mob/ Faerie fire them. Always get furor after maxing the feral tree.
If you go balance before lvl 20 you should pick up imp wrath. 2x wrath > moofire > bear is really strong and the imp wrath talent saves a surprising amount of time! :)
@@Ebbnflow When you play a hyper-efficiant class such as priest or druid you kinda want to go as aggro as possible imo. And in my testing using wrath w/o imp wrath was still really strong (if you manage mana and rage correctly). The only good reason to pick up Grasp early on is for starting Stonetalon @14, but since the mobs seem to be weaker in classic than on pservers it might not be usefull for that either.
my first talent point is 100% going to natures grasp, that talent saved me so often and 1 point isnt too much (only put 1 point in balance). its a nice life saver if you have pulled too much melees. As a elite player you might not need that talent too often but as casual player I thing it is a good first pick.
I found it underwhelming, the best survival seemed to be melee in druid form to regen and then big self heal + dot, repeat. This tactic has quite the durability. But ye one talent isn't that big, although your speed will get delayed by one full level.
@@solmyr42 Like said pro gamer wont need it that often but for the casual player its nice to have, especially if you pull to many mobs and get dazed. I will also go herbalist/alchemy. Elixirs benefit a druid so much so I try to avoid dying at all costs.
@@solmyr42 the first elixiers are bonus strenght, stamina, armor, HP reg and so on, not that useful for a caster. However if you have stamina, armor, HP reg elixier on a druid it prolongs the time you need for shapeshifting and healing. Elixiers for manareg, bonus spelldmg and so one are available only later. Sure the troll blood potion is awesome for a life tab warlock but as a mage i rarely use any elixiers early on. You can have sooo many elixiers on you in vanilla, str, life, life reg, agility, armor. If you have 5+ elixiers on you you really dont want to die.
Hey there! Love your content, have been watching everything, and am 100% sure on making a druid on Classic! Just one thing: i intend to tank occasionally while levelling, so is it worth it to get a few points on Feral Instict for the threat bonus, or should i just go for Thick Hide for the armor bonus?
Personally I'm curious as to why ebbn likes thick hide so much. It seems he doesnt do dungeons while leveling, but also stays in cat out in the world. Sure he has a good reason tho
Thick hide is 10% armor contribution so when I am leveling in cat I have that much more physical damage reduction. If you plan to tank dungeons I could see the extra threat being nice but its really a personal preference.
I actually got a question! I would love to do dungeons while leveling and would love do it as tank. Any suggestion on that tree or should I follow this one and still be able to tank?
This was great, thanks so much! Just subbed. Is there 29/11/11 (balance/feral/resto) hybrid spec for PVP? I've seen the balance spec with Nature's Swiftness, but wonder if there's a hybrid spec that focuses on balance but picks up Feral Charge and Insect Swarm. Keep up the great work.
If no consideration of wasting a respec how about going balance for natural weapons and then respec to feral at 20? I assume the % damage from natural weapons will be better han ferocity -rage cost? Or would the cheaper rage compensate for it?
natures grasp can definitely be helpful at times. I think getting 2 into feline swiftness asap is a bit better though. Depends on how often you get into wpvp or close to death from mobs.
Have you tried going balance with stocking up on mage water, or is it being slower just the accepted opinion of vanilla community? I haven't tested leveling speed, and w/o mage water it is certainly slower (or if you are rushing to 60 and all mages are of similar level and can't make good enough water), but I have my doubts after watching that Melderon shaman kill speed comparison, where ele got on top, despite being considered worse. Haven't leveled as feral though, so can't really compare that myself.
If it was an alt druid or you are taking your time leveling I think balance could be decent, since you can get yourself some nice gear. The main issue when leveling is having bad gear and not a large mana pool.
No question that this is by far the best leveling build? Ehh idk my guy. Furor is way too good early on - After leveling multiple Druids to end game through the years I have tried it both ways and there's no possible way that filling up Feral tree 100% all the way down to Leader of the Pack before putting points into Furor is superior to rushing 2/2 Feral Swiftness then going 5/5 Furor asap. I can't even consider it a "preference" as the gap between the two choices is so vast. No comparison.
You mention you'll be doing other build guides, but do you know if Improved Thorns from the Balance tree is worth it for a Resto build? Being concerned with dungeon & raid healing, as well as having the best buffs, I'm curious if the damage increase even matters.
Its definitely nice to buff the tanks with imp. roots, especially when you get the t1 3 piece bonus. One of the resto druids in my raiding geoup had it and was in charge of thorns buff.
Omen of clarity when you hit 60? I would argue its better than furor and natural shifter? Could get it at lvl 53 for a decent DPS buff or do you feel like you are shifting a lot in those last 7 levels?
If i had a desire to tank some lowbie dungeons around 15, would feral instinct be good to invest in for the threat or is it not worth since lowbie stuff isnt difficult anyway?
Any thoughts on leveling HotW/NS? Once you hit 54-ish you can start doing BRD/LBRS which has some Blue BiS gear and this gives you the option to tank or heal.
As full feral while leveling, do you have trouble getting into dungeons? I’d expect people to want you to be healer while going into dungeons like Wailing Caverns, SM, DM etc. Do you just basically tank as feral to get into dungeons?
Edwin Hernandez If you can collect an alternate healing set as you level up you’ll have no problems healing in dungeons as feral. Only downside is your rez, but thats just how druids are :)
Hey Ebb my wife and I will be duoing together she want to go shaman and I druid is there a talent spec to consider while duoing? I plan on tanking as a bear while leveling and she wants to heal we are not going to level her as resto but shammies can heal 5mans as enhance but what do you think bear form talents for duoing and tanking 5mans?
If she is going to be enhancement she will probably pull a lot of threat off you in the early levels. I would probably both just dps mobs, so in cat form. and since you both have heals between pulls just pop out and top yourself off. Try to take care of the healing on your end so she has mana for totems and shocks. you probably can do 2-3 pulls before you would need to pop out and heal you and her so this way you can regen mana that whole time. That's probably what I would do!
hey, i have a question when classic launch, i will play with my friend (enhance shaman) what spec would be good i think going resto ? or feral is still better if i play with someone?
You dont prefer getting OOC after feline swiftness? This makes sure you get the movespeed before travel form and get OOC level 32, same level you will have feral FF and Savage Fury. You'll be putting your first point into it the same time the 3rd in Predatory Strikes.
OOC doesnt proc that often on the beta, maybe once per fight. I find going deep feral right away tends to help leveling speeds. Just what I have found works for me!
Not a bad idea at all. I still think you average speed to kill and level would be slower. However with this being said I might test this out a bit on the beta just to be 100% sure.
@@Ebbnflow I'd be really interested to see that myself, make the video haha! ;) But I agree I doubt you would be fast or at least just as fast as feral. However, I don't think leveling as balance is as awful as people make out with that in mind.
@@Cakevspie94 I guess it just comes down to liking the play style. It means leveling as more of a hybrid rather than just a cat or caster, which may be less efficient but can be just as fun if you are that way inclined
Was wondering if you have any talent tree for the druid who wants to quest / grind but also heal after hitting 60. Or can you quest / grind (albeit slow) with the druid healing spec?
rather go into balance first get that 10% physical dmg get that omen of claritiy get that 30% lesser mana cost for shifting and then you can go feral, also fokus on eq items with agility and stamina crit has a lot more value for druid lvln then AP does.
What's the deal with skipping Feral Aggression? Is ferocious bite truly such a horrible ability, that 15% damage increase to it is not worth skipping 6% armor, feral charge and 1 point of brutal impact?
Yo Ebn bro. Go and get yourself a Popfilter for your mic. 15dollars that improve your sound quality massivly. Apart from that, thanks for all the help!
i liked the guide! i think i would pick up furor b4 i get hotw but thats just me lol i imagine i'd be going crazy popping into cat form with no energy well b4 the mid lvl 40s
Definitely a solid choice, the 20% intellect is so good from hotw that I like to get it asap, especially since I start to heal instances when leveling right around the 30-40 range so the faster I can get that extra intellect the better! A lot of people can't stand not having furor though so its understandable.
Philosophy Bear this is my preference while leveling. At lvl 60 Id pick up thick hide but it just isnt that impactful early on.. Id rather have threat for tanking dungeons. But for pure efficiency/solo leveling thick hide is probably the way to go.
@@zoogie980 really just depends on what you like to do, I hate cat and I love bear, so I pick both and ignore some cat talents. It's not as efficent but fuck it lol.
It would seem if you are leveling on a PVP server you should go for PVP talents. That would be a sure way to get taken out is speccing for PVE grinding if someone sees you in a contested zone and decides you are invading their questing or grinding area and kills you and ruins your time. I would rate this a better guide if you let us know you were only focusing on PVE realm players. How good exactly is 2/2 improved cat form if in 8 very quick levels you stop ever using cat form for out door travel and switch exclusively to travel form or a mount?
That’s because you not playing my way. Once mob is at 20% health or so. Rip and run away to the next mob. With the 30% speed boost they can’t catch you and die as you get to the next mob. Plus faster between quests. This is super useful
Hey Bogan, check out my macro video I just did, definitely recommend some form cancel macros so you can heal yourself easier when in cat and bear form. Other then that its really personal preference!
I wanna play resto but i feel like lvling will be slow. Why i wanna go resto is cause i would like to play a healer and not have to wait till 60 to respec into healer and have to tank through all the early dungeons
@@Ebbnflow thanks for the reply. i dont really know how vanilla works i started in wrath ill likely mostly do dungeons with friends might do some raids but would prefer to play a healer. Been thinking about paying preist but im leaning to druid
OMG this video is really....not good. Druid is THE most hybrid class ever and you lvl nothing like that. You are missing out a lot of fun 1) forget about thick hide. u will barely have bis items to haev 10% armor count that much, unless u also run dungeons. this brings me to next point. 2) runnign dungeons you will have to tank. for that you should get 3/5 in Feral Instinct. will also help prowling when needed to avoid mobs or world PVP. 3) 2/2 brutal impact, for that 1s more time on stun can be life saver. gives you time to cast a heal. or it can save the healer on a bad pull 4) I agree with feral swiftness right away. 5) Immediately go into resto for 5/5 FUROR. 6) come back to feral and do as you wish. but charge is essential. Overall, what I try to say, is that YOU NEED talents which give you the hybridisation that druid is so good for. Otherwise, roll some other class
I paused this video after you were discussing feral instinct. I mean you dont even mention that it increases your threat which is important to tank dungeons. I dont know whether you skipped this fact on purpose or maybe you dont know about it but either way this is a bad druid leveling guide.
I disagree with a lot in this video. Taking thick hide early on has little effect on the low armor you have when you take it, it's close to useless. Not taking Feral Instinct is another wtf are you thinking decision. I use prowl a shit ton while leveling as a druid, plus it's a huge bonus for tanking dungeons while leveling. No improved healing touch?! That's another one I do not understand. Maybe, just maybe if you intend to solo all the way and skip all dungeons, then maybe I can understand it a bit, but no way in hell i'm going to use these talents. Like wtf are you going to do in a ST dungeon run? you can't heal, you can't tank, they won't take you as a dps.... you'll have to lie and fake it to get an invite. But when they see that leader of the pack buff they'll know what's up.
