I don't plan to buy the Dusk, but if a measley dsp cable can render dac amp setups that cost thousands of dollars obsolete, then i think it's a great cultural reset for the hobby. I love the idea of just buying an iem and everything being self-contained. You don't have to worry about spending additional money on a dac amp setup to do that iem justice. For example, there's someone who bought the subtonic storm for 5k, and even though it can be driven "well" on a sub-$1,000 amplifier, they say it's only on their $3k amplifier that it truly separates itself from other iems. There are so many things to think about and purchase besides just the iem itself in this hobby, that it's refreshing for a trusted authority like crin to say, "this iem sounds exactly like it's supposed to straight out of the box. All accessories and presets included. No extra purchase necessary, and you don't have to waste time learning how to EQ, because I've done it all for you" 😅
This is, fundamentally, the problem with the hobby. I don't think it fully needs a reset... And I think there is definitely a place here at the table for kilobuck gear (and beyond). I do think that making the vocal minority and their supporters eat crow, will help to bring the conversation around audio chains back toward true discourse. Currently you can't say something that goes against the meta or you're tarred and feathered.
Nice to see your face ,Im a bit fed up with all the new Iem's .There is a lot of BS ,being honest i wont be buying anything over £100 anymore . The so called influencers are being paid alot of money to blag us consumers .
I actually had to do a double-take because on the channel name it read, "Akros". Because at first glance, when i initially saw the face on the thumbnail, the first name to immediately pop up in my mind was... "Moby"!
Good thought provoking video. If I'm spending hundreds, I want an IEM that sounds amazing by itself. It means time has been spent to make the IEM amazing without relying on extra equipment. DSP... it's a selling point for some, and not for others.
Nice to meet you FINALLY! I agree 100%..I Recently I tuned my ARTTI T10 with FIIO BTR 15 and it outperforms my NDH 30.I was shocked!Akros for me the most important caple is the usb c that connects the phone with the Dac..There is the money! I plan to buy a good audioquest type c to type c now! Take care !
I agree with you. You should EQ everything and dac amp makes such a minimal difference that they are irrelevant. The biggest difference will always be tuning and the more dramatic change you can make to a product will always be with EQ. Well said Tony.
I'm with you Akros! I have always used EQ thru the years. Since I got into IEms I quit using it, I hear them the way they are tuned. Each to his or her's own choice. If the Dust doesn't blow people away with its analog cable then it's a miss for me. Seems to be the case so far. DSP is EQ! Thanks, Akros. BTW, keep your face in your reviews. Nice to finally see you, sir.
I have the EarFunFree Pro 2 (EFFP2) and purchased the tuning from Oluv. Performed the test to identify my R & L resonant ear canal frequencies, then applied the baseline custom EQ with the AirReps15x 6 on Android. The results were both noticeable, balanced, and excellent. As well, when done this way it becomes the default tune for the earbuds. I have more than a few earbuds from Soundcore, Soundpeats, Apple, EarFun, Tozo. My favorite earbuds, as a daily driver...the EFFP2 with the custom tune...hands down. For sure, these earbuds have their limitations and cannot compare to decent IEM's with a decent DAC (or wired BT w/a near lossless codec). However, often I prefer a small profile earbud on travel...something with ANC and good call quality. Something comfortable; that I can fall asleep while wearing. The EFFP2's fit the bill perfectly and are relatively low priced for their capabilities.
Tony, thanks for your recommendation of the KZ Rhapsody. After 3 days of burning, the harshness in the treble area was gone. Now they are candies to my ears. The iem switches help me a lot because I like the pop music of the 50's-70's were there were not too much sub-bass and treble were usually distorted and the studios tape recorders of the days went up to 15kz max. But those were my teens yrs. Ah... and you say you are an old guy, no offense please. I am 75+ years old and with a heart trasplant of 16.5 yrs ago..... In the 1958. I was building speakers and kits from Allied Radio and others... thanks again for your recommendations of Juzears 41T. Colorfly M1P & TPZ TP50 Dongles, Kefine Delci, and many others. Keep up with your comparisons and the graph section. Thanks
The DSP cable has been measured and has very low noise and distortion, it's better than the average dongle. It does a full 1V without clipping, the Dusk is 119dB/V. So it will do 119dB... you don't need louder than that. It's not clipping at that point, so this covers any possible "headroom" or any of this nonsense. It's an IEM. This idea you need stupid amounts of power for IEMs is just that. You're actually going to be probably several orders of magnitude below the max on this cable. 89dB is 1,000x less power, and that's still a LOUD listening volume, 80-85dB is the max for safe listening. Qudelix is good a tool for this, it actually tells you what voltage you are using (and power if you input the impedance and sensitivity). You'll almost certainly find you are listening at fractions of a volt and likely, under 1mW power.
The big pro of a tuned DSP cable is convenience. You get "better" sound without doing any work. But I see two problems for saying DSP is the future for everything 1. Will the DAC chip be stable with a longer period of time and use, such a cheap chip will surely have a higher failure rate 2. Even if it runs perfect, it's not flexible. It's only tuned for 1 IEM so essentially the cable is permanently attached. And what happens when the cable breaks/you lose it? Back to analogue and EQ once more so the argument is redundant
@@miscwork-qb7pd you can buy a replacement DSP cable for $29. The cable has presets for the one IEM but it also has PEQ so you can set it to whatever you like, not just this one IEM. Crinacle has released the full DSP presets so you can apply them in your own PEQ software if you prefer to use analog.
@@blorg8206 Whilst I conceed for android the Moonfrop FreeDSP is currently one of the cheapest ways to apply EQ, you can essentially do the same for free on PC and Mac using free software. Also you lose the convenience advantage if you use a new cable, since you'll have to manually input values
TELL 'EM 💯! Louder for the people in the back🙌!! Thank you 🙏for the unflinching honesty & keen observations in the audio landscape! You're helping us become smarter consumers in a confusing iem landscape, RESPECT 🙌!
I have my own problem with crinacle and so i would not be getting the dusk. Gonna be buying the hype 4. I dont care if i am missing out on great sound.
Very Cool and informative take Tony! Great to put a face on the voice! Yes, I would like to see DSP cables become an alternative to expensive DAC/amps. It would be the best way to ensure that the IEM is heard in the same way by everyone without having the DAC/amp as a variable. I just hope that the DSP cable will be used as a way to ensure the same experience for everyone and provide different tunings, i hope DSP is not used as a way to fix IEMS.
Thanks for the sanity check Tony. DSP (USB-C) is an on-the-go with a phone solution. Anyone that goes after the Moondrop Dusk likely already has something better than the DSP cable to play on. I like the novelty of DSP on cheaper IEMs, but why bother on mid priced sets.
Glad to finally see you. Appreciate all the hard work you put in to your reviews. Been busy, so there are many I need to catch up on. Keep up the fantastic work!
I thought you were a well articulated asian uncle, possibly between Indonesian or Singaporean, you got me off guard. Your reviews are lengthy yet quite perceptive and informative. Thanks for going the extra mile for the hobby.
Hey, it's the man behind the voice and hands, thanks for showing the face. I have the Blessing 3 and do enjoy it, the Dusk is a warmer tuned version of it (just looking at analog), which means it come closer to the SA6 MkII except with still slightly higher treble area, I won't be buying it, because I already have the SA6 MkII but basically I think it's probably a more acceptable Blessing 3 for those who felt B3 was a little too sharp. Qudelix 5k is quite amazing with what is loaded in that box.
I like the concept of dsp but it should be more used for tws earphones like galaxy buds that have way better app support. I also believe moondrop is going to data mine all the dsp users in order to find the most used dsp preset tuning. the harman target and the new JM-1 target is already a preset on the dusk 2
"Enamored with"? Everyone is whining that it should be done passively. Physical design for tuning is always subject to limitations and compromises some of which EQ can get around so not using it is objectively sub-optimal. It will be the future since it's free not only for the end-user, but cheap for the manufacturer as well. The EQ has value when done by more capable people than the end-users almost none of which would with reasonable effort reach the balance. Oluv's work is fantastic, agreed, but also a good example of high level EQ requiring far more than most people can handle. His EFFP2 preset is still the most balanced sound I've heard from an IEM and competes well with B2 Dusk which has a few strengths over it. Subbed.
i really can't see how this is good for manufacturers... If this turns into a thing, why buy more iems? just buy a good one and then mimic others tuning. The real value of this product are the presets, everything else is not this huge novelty... And you can get those through squiglink. Still the treble area is always a bit troublesome to equalise to another tuning...
The big advantage of a tuned DSP cable is convenience. You get "better" sound without doing any work. But I see two problems for saying DSP is the future for everything 1. Will the DAC chip be stable with a longer period of time and use, such a cheap chip will surely have a higher failure rate 2. Even if it runs perfect, it's not flexible. It's only tuned for 1 IEM so essentially the cable is permanently attached. And what happens when the cable breaks/you lose it? Back to analogue and EQ once more so the argument is redundant
As an electrical engineer y completely agree with your dissertation, it is completely senseless/pointless comparison between Analog iem response vs. DSP/DAC& with EQ iem reaponse... by the way great analogy.
If anything the Dusk opens the EQ debate, which I think is so cool. I think it’s HBB who always says you should pay for the hardware, not tuning. Maybe the Dusk is what we needed to show how if you have decent drivers and well done EQ, it really doesn’t make sense to go bonkers - you can get an amazing experience for relatively cheap. I understand the whole “cheating”thing, but hey, it’s just using technology to our advantage. Perhaps instead of tuning IEMs, reviewers can now just offer us EQ profiles to several IEMs. I’d gladly pay $5 for that instead of $50 for yet another earphone to clutter my drawer.
DSP is lossy I would suggest those who might be interested to watch the video of Rob Watts from Chord electronics talking about the design of the Mojo2 which is the only lossless DSP equalizer in the world.
You have a point about the dsp, I ordered the dusk solely because I like the look of the analogue measurement. I wouldn’t have bought it if I was relying on the dsp /eq to enjoy it, I’m considering that aspect just an additional bonus. As i can eq any iem to get my desired sound.
Everything you said is true Quite interesting that you cited Oluv. I have the Earfun free Pro2, and I've played a lot with the configurations that you could use with the MediaTek Airoha, thanks to him. Obviously I knew how TWS worked, but manipulating it allowed me to see the power of DSP. For me, I find the changes so important that I find it more powerful than equalization (and yet, I've known it for a long time even if I'm not really a fan of it anymore). But yes, there is always the limitation of the quality of the drivers For me, my Earfun free Pro2 are so good for the price that I'm thinking of buying another "backup" pair because I got the tone I like. But i also like the "power" of the settings available for my wf1000-xm4 with the Sony application "Headphone". Originally, the XM4s are not terrible at all but I also got what I wanted Well, with these technologies, I just hope that we will always have a lot of different style of sounds with the iems/headphones, technologies can also make you lazy
Will you review the P1 Max II soon? Looking to upgrade from PR3, but I love it's airiness unnatural treble too much, but willing to try some realistic-sounding or warm-sounding planars.
I am not sure where I fall on the DSP issue, but I would rather have a well tuned IEM. The Moondrop FreeDSP cable is only $30, which is a deal given that a similar 3.5mm cable would run at least $20. I still think the Tanchjim One DSP is a great deal for about under $30, basically the cable and a capable IEM.
Great video! I have a number of higher end iems and headphones… I bought the dusk twice and both times cancelled my order … because I just think from a functionality standpoint I just don’t think the dsp cable will be utilized often… I bought two other cheaper dsp iems and eq’ed them to my liking and I thought they sounded great … but in reality I haven’t touched then since … I need my dongle dacs and amps and iems to all be present and complete and maintain my sanity (or insanity 😊).. to me it’s like buying a Ferrari with a auto pilot option and only using that… when in fact sometimes the car should be driven like it should be 😉
Olaf is a salesman-a proponent only of what helps his views. I started an argument and debate. He deleted the thread._ I'll wait for your take on the Dusk, but I am still not a fan of Crinacle.
Thank you for talking about it. I had the same feeling actually and I'm glad that you brought it up. Timmy from Gizaudio have copied DSP settings so people can use the same EQ in analogue. It would be interested if you, can compare Dusk on DSP and his analogue EQ and compare them in everything but tonality. I guess it will be the most fair comparison
The DSP cable and app are not really ready for market, I agree, and perhaps part of the release delay. EQ presets are as much sound design as the engineering that goes for passive design and deserves to be paid for even if theoretically we could all do it for free. We couldn't in practise.
Yes most of the merit of the product relies on the eq presets rather than anything else. However it's easy to apply them to other iem you already own using squiglink+any other peq solution. The product itself (iem+cable) is not this revolutionary, market disruptor thing.
I agree with you. In my opinion, it is better to enjoy what we have as they were built up, and if the gear sounds bad for our ears, then sell them or whatever, and try something different. This hobby could be costly, but the experience of trying different things is enjoyable!
Clearly it is as you say. I have a TEMPOTEC IM05 which must be the worst sounding headphone from the factory that I have in my collection. And if I equalize it it ends up being perhaps the best of all (I use Squiglink and take the IM05 to the 2017 Harman curve). So I completely agree that it is like cheating.
7:42 I already eq every iem at least slightly. I switch between the presets when a/b testing. The only exception was the kiwi ears quintet. I had no fault with the tuning but still think it sucked.
Finally I see the man. Moondrop is overrated as hell. Wouldn't spend 10 bucks on the them. My absolute favorite set of TWS headphones that I still use to this day in addition to my IMs, are the noble audio pros I absolutely adore these I have the Devialet Geminis and I also like those quite a bit. But as far as fit function and overall sound quality nothing beats noble audio nothing
90% of the time I listen to music is with the Qudelix-5k doing EQ. I still listen to the good reviewers on YT like Akros and The Honest Audiophile and buy stuff based on their opinion without EQ. Frequency Response is the only thing EQ can correct but it is only part of the performance. If you can get a good headphone that excels in some other aspect than FR (for example in soundstage as with the AKG K702 or the planar speed of a Tinhifi P1 Max) and then enhance that with the Qudelix-5k, for example to correct the bass roll off of the K702, then you are really combining the best of analog and digital.
I disagree with you here. Any other company can release an IEM with a DSP cable of their own making if they want to. The major selling point is that the DSP is already programmed for you in order to take the IEM to the desired “perfect” tuning. With something like the Qudelix and its auto EQ, the issues are really that you’re relying on someone else’ tuning preferences and measurements instead of the manufacturer’s/designer’s.
My only disappointment is that Crinacle didn't have the pull to fix Moondrop's app and cable. This aspect gives the project a slight cash-grab quality, even if he worked hard on it. Without the app, the cable is e-waste eventually. Then you have to do the work of finding a tuning you like with a balanced cable and a q5k or something. I'd be fine if crin released a suggested eq profile. But relying on proprietary cables and apps reduces the chance that the product can be fully enjoyed once Android itself is a relic.
So what's the whole thing about, end of the hobby, business as we know it ❓Or the DSP has some issue...maybe some "unhuman" kind of "uncanny valley" effect. Because if not then it will change everything...😊
Is there anything to the argument the DSP/EQ are tools just like an amp or DAC? Neither good nor bad, juts another thing to make something sound better?
Finally someone is taking about this. Since DSP cables have come out, I've thought they're ok for cheap IEM but why in the hell would you want to run a mid to upper tier IEM off a crap cable with a crap DAC and amp? I just don't get it 🤷 🤦 And who was eq tuner you mentioned? I'm curious to check them out
All this DSP you can have the best DSP if you have the wrong Eartips you are screwed. Tony put me onto the KB07 Large eartips i have not looked back. Thanks Tony! Frank
Completely agree! Can't understand all the hype... Moondrop's free dsp cable and the app is available for quite some time now, no real novelty there. Another iems have been selling with the cable also for some time. Plus the cable is shit if you're using it with a pc for example. DIfficult to control the volume. I've given up using it this way as i've almost destroyed my ear drums. It always plays at max volume. Either it is revolutionary on its analog form or it isn't all that special. Not saying it isn't good. Also if this turns into a thing, why bother buying more iems? Iem market ends. Just release tunings to use with your dsp. One can also use any decent dongle along with hiby's app, uapp with addons etc. Any app with peq basically. It's easy to get dusk's eq presets with squiglink. I found it quite strange that some reviewers who criticised the cable some time ago (ie product disappointment of 2023) are now actually praising it... wtf?!
The truth is that our ears are very weak, 99% of the hobby is placebo, it's about giving money to audio brands. They all set the price high to test the ability of idiots to deceive themselves, and with every expensive piece of equipment you buy, you deceive your soul, in the blind test we would all be demoralized.
Not completely true but quite close. There are differences in audio gear, but not at this level what we asked to pay for. So a super expensive high end things usually is just a little better or similar but not something of a miracle. And high end business is based on marketing and fooling yourself that your paid money actually was worth it. When it is not for any rational thinking man.
We are paying hundreds of bucks for this incapable tuning ability, why Moondrop don't just release DSP alone that can use Wavelet-like sound profile data of their own IEMs and we have a freedom to EQ them. This Dusk thing is a fall of audio enthusiast community, an absolute disgrace. This is why in the past 2 years I don't buy any single of collab IEM, they're just embarrassing money grab, reviewers have turned as vaporwave salesmen.
If the dsp eq the tune from the dusk iem to get its best sound, why not just put the tuning on the iem itself by default? This really bogs me as crinacle himself just said dsp is just eq, no more. It looks to me that they just forcing the dsp on the dusk so moondrop can make more $$$. The app being buggy adds to the problem.
although it sounds like a rant, point is, use wavelett, freedsp cable, qudelix with your favorite iems. It doesn't have to be dusk and I have to agree. I use Moondrop May in comparison using an analog cable. But standard preset is my favorite and I will keep saying it.
precisely. it doesn't have to be with moondrop's app and it doesn't have to be with moondrop's cable. i'd say you be better off using other solutions. so, no revolution here.
@@fahryst when it doesn't work properly ie in a pc, i can't see the advantage. If you're using it on a phone, tablet, etc. you can always turn on an app. You can get a better simple dongle for the cheap or spend similar or a little more money and get more functionality, power output, etc. Plus you can use it with more iems no matter the connection (not just 2 pin, but any other)
DPS WERE FINE. As long the driver good quality. lets talk about new dusk yea. 1. the dusk in analog mode were very flawed in bass region, two 10mm opposed have not been implemetented nicely in iem(exception the opposed 7/8mm by hsn or penon somewhat), because driver efficiency, the driver excurtion were very low with weak transient response with two 10mm response, youll be better with single 12mm. coud be fixed but you need relatively high power amp with clean snr. two opposed 10mm driver might take you to range 50ma. 2. dual ba in the dusk is implemented nicely balanced, not overly inefficient by excessive driver stacking, i believe the dusk has best dynamic in the mid range. female vocal will have better attack and transient energy compared to male vocal. 3. the planar has good extension but it might intercept uppermid and lower treble clarity, the planar were doubled and big. maybe there will be some sort of fequency cancelation and excessive energy resonance that playing it roles. 4, you need more power than you think from that dsp cable provided by the dusk, and foam eartip will help the trebel zing attenuation with added clarity. if you dont believe me compared it to original dusk with or without eq to the same fr.
O som de um fone deve vir pronto. Sou contra os cabos dsp, você não pode usar dacs, e um cabo para iniciantes no hobby, fico triste em ver que o crinacle usou este artifício.
You have a head! Seems weird somehow. I had to look away...😊 Well your argument has a weak spot.. Can you make a 5 dollar KZ sound like the Sundara? You cannot. There are physical properties of various drivers which effect your ability to perform magic with an EQ. And the physical properties are associated with verious types of tone and timbre.
U are making a mountain out of a molehill!😢😢😢 The dsp is just another additional option provided. All your questions u talking about here doesn't exist. U want to compare it analog to analog, it's up to u. Nobody is stopping u😂. U want to use Quedelix to eq your iem is also up to u. Moondrop didn't say u must use their dsp cable. What's your problem? I don't understand.😅 And nobody says u can't use your thousands dollar dac amp. Moondrop just provided a dsp cable for their iem, and people can think of a thousand ways to demonise it!😂😢😮 What's wrong with you guys?
Giving u too many options and u are trapped by your own thoughts? For me is very simple, if I like my thousand dollars dac amp, I will not use the dsp cable because I like the push power of my amp. If I like the tuning from the dsp cable, I will not use my amp, that's give and take. Why complicate matters? Giving you another option, u complain. Not giving u any options, u also complain! 😂😂😂
@@cadmiumpureland wow let me brake this down, as clearly I feel you didn't grasp the idea behind my comments: My problem is simple.....the Dusk was marketed on the basis of the DSP being the magic maker ...when in reality it's a concept that although Interesting is still in it's infancy and requires much more work to have all it's hiccups ironed out. Also it was the easiest way to apparently correct a " flawed" analog tuning. The whole thing that if you use Dusk with the DSP makes it the defacto best option under 500usd ...perhaps even 1000usd begs the question, is it so good that it makes the proper amp / DAC setups obsolete? Am I now to believe that a true audiophile that has spent thousands on his wild set up, has all that gear made pointless with something that doesn't even cost 1usd? For me I would have accepted much more that EQ profiles where made available , to use with the analog Dusk , but that wouldn't bring in sales. Anyway i will use the Dusk when I get it , as you so correctly say, which ever way I want , and my opinion when I share it will be based on that. As for you my friend you are free to have your opinion and also use the Dusk whichever way you feel happy with.
I don't think they marketed it as a magic maker. The dsp is just another option to try different tuning, that's the idea. Mind u, not everyone is savy in eq. And not everyone wants to to go to the extent. So providing a cable will quickly give them the option. No, they didn't say dsp is going to replace dac amp, nor did they say it is better in any way. In fact it's the reviewers who said the dsp sounds better than the analog version.😮 I didn't hear Moondrop said it is a replacement of anything. People like u or some other people made that up. I don't believe dsp will replace dac amp. I feel that dac amps do enhance the sound in a different way that no eq can provide. In fact Crin has already provided the eq settings so that anyone can do their own eq. So how is this a money making scheme when they readily provide all the tuning? Also the analog tuning is not flawed. Who is buying if it is flawed? People like to make all kinds of assumption. I believe what they meant when they said eq can reduce the peak at 8 or 9 khz, is that eqing will not affect other freq whereas analog tuning will. U cannot pinpoint correct without affecting the others.
