Okay. That was the most vague breakdown I’ve heard. What are the weight differences? What does the different ratchet sizes mean to me on tue trail…faster engagement, louder, smoothness, etc?? What is the approximate price differences?
240 SP is ~97g lighter per set than 350 SP and is double the price of 350 SP 180 SP is ~121g lighter per set than 350 SP and triple the price of 350 SP. Why is it hard to recommend 240?
The 240 is a great hub but just falls between the two....what we find for our customers is that if they want to save weight they tend to be wanting to spend the money to go all the way and jump to the 180 EXP. With the 2021 version of the 350 coming stock with a 36t ratchet ring (same as the 240 and 180) I think there is even more reason to stick with the 350 considering the bearing quality and overall performance are identical between the versions -Tristan
Worth noting that the 180s are only available in lower spoke count options (and only straight pull in front) so its only for lighter riders.. Also the 240 has more durable and lower friction bearings and bearing seals than the 350, its not just the weight. The 240 will roll smoother and do so for longer.
Nice review. Basically pointing out 240 it's not really worth since the 350 is going to perform just as well, just not the tiny amount of weight savings, and if weight savings is priority I'm better off getting the 180 instead of spending the money for a 240.
The 2022 version of the 350 is even closer to the 240 in terms of weight - check this video if you haven't seen it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MBRsMkLcEI8.html
Officially I can't find or get any info on bearings. Unofficially it appears you're correct - the 350 is a 'regular' steel bearing and the 240 uses a Taiwanese made stainless steel bearing. In reality it seems both hubs use similar quality bearings and we've never noticed a difference in wear-rate between the two hubs. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels also the 240 end caps have o ring seals where as the 350 has none on the end caps. Stainless steel bearings last longer than chromium steel if water ingress occurs.
@45graham45 Not sure on the bearings themselves, but certainly the placement of the bearings is different - a supposed increase in stiffness of the 240 over the 350.
Another point to build on here I think is the star ratchet system/engagement. A lot of riders for off-road/mtb gravitate towards the 54 tooth upgradge, but that may not be the smartest choice when it comes to durability and especially for loaded bikepacking applications. Can you elaborate on this point? Thanks, enjoying the knowledge shared. Too bad you're not also located in the US for wheel builds.
DT Swiss themselves say the 54t are not as durable as the 18, 20, 24, or 36 ratchets they offer (why so many, DT?!?) but we've never seen any issues to indicate this so I'm honestly confused. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels -When I specifically call the US DT Swiss rep in deciding between the 36 vs 54, they said the finer 54t star ratchet is prone to wear and under higher loads and weight are vulnerable to breaking. They also mentioned the performance gain from 36 to 54 isn't that noticeable in real-world riding situations.
@@davidf1288 we've heard similar through official DT Swiss sources but our real-world experience doesn't match this and we haven't seen any more issues with 54t than other tooth counts -Tristan
'...much lighter...', '...there's a pretty signifcant weight jump...'; ah please, stop the cra...; we are talking about a 30 grams weight difference between a set of 240s and a set of 180s.
Weight comparisons are always a touchy subject ;-) For people counting the grams then 30 grams saved is a LOT but if you're not interested in the weight saving then the 350 or 240 are likely to be a better option for you. This video (hopefully) shows why the 180 costs more and you can then make a decision on whether that's worth it for you or not. -Tristan
Thank you very much for the beautiful and very informative information you have provided in countless videos. I watched a few and learnt a lot again. Thank you for that :) I have a question and hope you can enlighten me. Is it possible to convert a DT Swiss 350 hub 12x100mm to 15x100mm? I found a conversion kit, but I'm not sure if it works with every 350 hub.
Do you have any concerns about the reduced bearing size in the 180 versus the 240? In an internet forum I read a post where the poster felt like the bearings were so small in the 180 that it might lead to durability issues. I take everything that I read online with a big grain of salt, but I did feel like that was an interesting thought regarding the 180. What are your thoughts on durability with the reduced bearing size in the 180?
Hey JB. I'm not sure the smaller bearing will have a big impact on their longevity, especially as the non-driveside bearing (the one which is substantially smaller) is the lowest-loaded bearing and the one which tends to last the longest. What we find is that ceramic bearings, from all companies including DT Swiss, tend to feel pretty gritty pretty fast. This might be a 'feature' and they don't seem to get excessive friction, but your axle won't feel smooth when you turn it by hand. They don't seem to develop any play.
In my experience it absolutely does. Especially if you're hitting big jumps, rock gardens and hard trails. The 350 uses a large 6802 bearing which you can get from really good companies like skf. The 240exp uses a 1526 which can't take anywhere near the beating and the 180 is even worse. If you think it out larger bearings can take larger loads. Best new hubs i have ridden are 12s XTR. They are glassy smooth but DT wise. 2022+ 350 is the way to go if you ride hard or anywhere wet
Does 2022 HG freehub comes in steel? I think I read before that the old vs new bearing position have been moved outward more or something. What about the QR end caps for boost and non boost to QR, front and rear, are they the same? Planning to buy the pre 2022 350s because of cheaper price. Is the Glossy paint the only bad thing about it? Is it also true that the centerlock hubs have smaller bearing sizes than the 6 bolt versions? Thanks a lot! @@gen-X-trader
@@oiyo5124 I would get the newest 350. They use the upgraded ratchet. They are reliable. The freehubs are not a giant concern because they are very easy to replace. Takes you a couple of minutes.
Question ??? DBCL vs DBIS what is the Difference ??? i have a Straight pull 2013 Spline hub Black and Silver , 2 Pcs Glued to together ( not sure what are the Differences are ) building a New Wheel on the DT Swiss Spoke Calculator Site ???
Hello there and thank you for this very useful and informative video. I am thinking about 350 hub, currently I have Shimano M6000 and it is OK, but it’s bearings and as you know cup and cone and I would like to get a proper hub with proper bearings. So my question is, can I order 350 with classic QR axle?
The hubs are modular and we'll build wheels with whatever combo is needed for our customers...so if you're buying from us then answer is YES. Drop us a note if you want to chat more -Tristan
What specific stuff were you looking for Bogdan? We didn't put weights up because there are so many different variants of each hub that it's hard to talk directly about them. Is there something else we missed?
Hey Bogdan - we're shooting a deep-dive look at these three hubs. These are the topics I'm going to cover - is there anything else you'd like to see? -Tristan . Country of origin, Bearing material, Visual appearance, Surface finish, Logo, Spoke type, Warranty, Weights of each part (shell, axle, endcaps etc)
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels I would like to know exactly what is the difference betweent the ratchet systems inside , as the weight can easily be found in many places. A hint could be this guy : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hZb4slBM8C4.html
You need a HWYXXX00N9376S to upgrade an EXP hub to 54t. To do this job you'll need two tools. -Tristan All three links here: www.wheelworks.co.nz/shop-2/hub-part-freehub-body/hwyxxx00n9376s-dt-swiss-small-part-exp-ratchet-system-service-kit-54t-without-tool/ (the 54t kit, spring, and spring carrier) www.wheelworks.co.nz/shop-2/tool/hxtxxx00n8387s-dt-swiss-tool-dt-disassembly-tool-for-exp-star-ratchet-w20x1-hxtxxx00n8387s/ (tool to remove and re-install the fixed ratchet ring) www.wheelworks.co.nz/shop-2/tool/hxtxxx00n6106s-dt-swiss-tool-dt-disassembly-tool-for-exp-bearings-hxtxxx00n6106s/ (tool to remove the bearing from the fixed ratchet ring)
Correct - 180s are straight pull only. There would be no problems lacing them to a pair of 3.4 rims though - if you're in NZ we're able to do this for you -Tristan
Yes - you can convert the 'road disc' version of the 100x12mm and 142x12mm hubs to work with those axle types, however they don't sound right for a 2022 bike. If you're in New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, Canada or the USA and want to talk about some new wheels drop us a line. sales@wheelworks.co.nz -Tristan
The 180 EXP can have a lot of bearing drag, but it is designed for XC. Drop us an email Manuel (sales@Wheelworks.co.nz) and we'll talk through some better suited wheels for you - and there is no problem shipping to the USA -Tristan
agreed: it's downright criminal! We'll ensure we include this in all future videos...go check out our Pro5 video with both the 54 and 108 POE freehub bodies -Tristan ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-57vEXF_H_vU.html
All of the hub we sell at Wheelworks (the DT range, Hope Pro4, Industry 9, and Dial) are great quality, durable hubs. They all have their own pros and cons, and their own price brackets. -Tristan
Why? wheel of bontrager rsl top wheel use just dt240 but wheel dt1100 arc use dt180 Hub best 180>240>350 but price dt1100 arc and bon rsl similar price.
You'd have to ask Bontrager and DT Swiss that one! Please note though that the Bontrager (like a lot of Specialized / Roval and Giant wheels) uses DT Swiss 240s internals with Ratchet EXP 36-point engagement""- often this means they use a DT Swiss freehub body and right-side endcap but then make their own hub shell, axle, and left-side endcap. It's not a fair comparison to an actual 240 hub. -Tristan
Is this video a joke? You literally didn't say *anything* , no data about weight (no s**t more expensive is lighter), but how heavy are they?, no price, no differences explained between internals, nothing.
Hi @nioh - you might be looking for our deepdive video which answers all of your questions except price (since it varies from country to country and can change over time) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7Y-BjpMkIaY.html
The freehub body on the 180 in the video is for an XD type cassette, whereas the 240 and 350 are an HG 35mm type cassette. Freehub body "standards" are a real mess so we built this tool to help you figure out what freehub body you need for different cassette types www.wheelworks.co.nz/what-freehub-body-do-i-need/ Sorry if this difference wasn't covered in the video! -Tristan
370 is 3 pawl system whereas 350 is ratchet. If you want to upgrade the 370 to a higher engagement ratchet like a 54tooth, you have to replace the entire internal mechanisms of the 370 which requires special tools and about $150 worth of parts.
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Since you made this video, newer videos claim that the 370 was upgraded in 2022? to use the ratchet system vs. the old 3-pawl. Is that true? If I'm looking at a wheelset that the retailer says has 370 hubs, should I expect him to know if they are "old" or "new" 370's? I am confused.
@@larrymelman you should check with the retailer. The old 370 uses a terrible 3-pawl freehub body which is prone to failure: To sort this out DT Swiss created the "Ratchet LN" which is essentially the "Classic" star ratchet system shoe-horned into the older hub shells. To keep the product lineup making sense the 350 was upgraded (see ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MBRsMkLcEI8.html ) and the EXP system was introduced. The Ratchet LN hubs are good. The 3-pawl hubs aren't. We've never sold the 3-pawl DT Swiss hubs :-) -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Thanks for the reply. The retailer replied that they are old enough that they are surely the older design. So I won't be pursuing that any further. DT Swiss could have used a new number like 371 to reduce confusion, but I guess they like it that way.
Il faut comparer ce qui est comparable. Si tu prend un moyeu dt180 sp il faut aussi les prendre en 240 et 350 mais là il n’y a que le 180 en sp donc incomparable
Got a set of 9 month old 180 classic carbon ceramic hubs. Both hubs have had the carbon centres come away from the l/h flange. For the cost of these it is not good, had people running cheap nasty hubs for years and years which don’t do that and these have been treated nicely.
I would argue that you will never notice the weight difference in the hubs, everything else being the same. It’s like 150g at most for the hub pair. Weight is overrated 😉
I wish I would have watched some of these videos before I bought the 240 EXP. The 350 has an absolutely major benefit using 6802 bearing. The exp uses these tiny ridiculous proprietary bearings you can't get from any good vendor. No skf, ntn, nsk etc. Personally I destroy bearings on a yearly basis
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels so i did this recently on my yearly tear down. had the 0 for a mid digit. emailed dt. they only sent the inner ratchet and a new bearing. i had no skipping issues but the hub kept smoking the 1526 bearing seated in the inner ratchet ring, ovalizing maybe? a new bearing would only last a few months before getting crunchy. they called that defective but didn't send both sides of the ratchet. to be fair my outer ratchet shows no signs of wear after 2 years of use and i had no skipping. have you guys had any hubs that were machined off in the ratchet assembly from the bad batch at launch that killed the bearing quickly?
Price goes up, weight goes down. I have a £9,700 forbidden dreadnought weighing 15.1 kg My mate has a £370 carrera that weighs 14.5 kg Im not sure about that boss
If you're talking about the Carrera fury then of course it's lighter I mean the dreadnought is literally a full suspension pivot trail bike and you are comparing it to a hardtai in terms of weight No hate though lucky on you to have a dreadnought man it is a sick bike, I'm only rocking a Santa cruz nomad
@@dane4519 just remember the dreadnought has a full carbon frame, the carrera vengeance my freind has is a low quality alloy frame, complete with a giant 3x crankset, and mostly steel parts and a cheap coil fork. My dreadnought has mostly carbon parts, and an axs groupset. It being a hardtail makes a negligible different in weight compared to all the other differences between the two
You might be looking for our Deep Dive video - we strip all three down and talk about the differences and weigh each individual part of the hubs. -Tristan ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7Y-BjpMkIaY.html
