Why bike mechanics love reliable alu wheels like these 

But what are the tolerances on those bearings? Is the spoke tension within 5% of spec, out of the box? And most importantly, how do we know what a product is really like unless the manufacturer sent it to us for free to review?

The angry consumer that was sold a bike with cheap components. Complain to your LBS for having sold you a bike with crappy components or better still to the manufacturer that integrated production of Chinese wheels, stems and handlebars, when in the past they used to buy wheels from Mavic, Easton, Ritchey and other brands.

​@@Frostbiker for "regular cyclists", watching youtube is not necessary. Just buy what you can afford, ride around, and that's it. And know that chinese brands actually produce good products for the price.

​​@@josediaspinto7438 all my bike's parts are chinese brands, only my brakes and drivetrain are not (Shimano). I do hill climbs every weekend for half a decade now, zero problems whatsoever.

I think he talks shite.

And proper cup and cone bearings, none of this press fit bearing nonsense!

Still available hand made from sjs cycles 🙂

@@paulmosely1116Cup and Cone bearings are high maintenance. Cartridge bearings last a lot longer, require zero maintenance and don’t wreck your hub when they do wear out. 10 mins replaces them when they do go.

i just bought one exactly as you said, mavic pro,with 105 hub and 11-34 rear sprockets for my road b,to replace my basic wheel,cos it was damaged😀🤘

Rebuilt a rear wheel 2 years ago putting another mavic pro on a bullseye hub with new Sapim spokes. Prior wheel had 80,000+ miles. Still have 2 fresh rims in the box, so I should be good for a while.

I’m sure they were great for that customer in those conditions. Before everyone rushes off to replicate, I’d offer this view. I had GRX400 hubs , aka Tiagra, on a brand new gravel bike, which I used very heavily in muddy, gritty North Wales UK conditions and they lasted mere months before the freehub packed up, beyond repair. So I’m not negating your experience, just saying that in crappy UK winter conditions, mine was different. I replaced them with some hand built wheels with Bitex hubs (ally rims, less than GBP400 all in) which have been excellent for three years now. I’m 85kg and tend to be hard on the bike

Our pleasure!

Besides dt swiss what's you next 2 line ups for hubs?

​@bonbonflippers4298 There really aren't many options around that price point. They all get a failing grade once you look at service options. Throw a steel freehub on a 350 and that thing will last many years.

@@bonbonflippers4298 I've had pretty good experience with spank hubs. Mine's aleady at 4th year of wet riding, still in bangin condition. Changed the bearings twice. Super simple and quick to service. Good engagement at 102t

@@laurynasjagelo5075 I didn't know spank makes hubs

@@bonbonflippers4298bitex, hope, H-works. All very good options with great reliability and serviceability.

Great choice 👍

I was buying carbon aero wheels. On DT Swiss side, there were already Ratchet EXP hubs from €1400 mark (ARC 1400). Ended up buying Roval Rapide CL2s. Wheels themselves are €1600-1800 (got them at 1300), but come with 350 hub which seems so much more practical. Ratchet EXP had some launch problems, hubs would last for 500km or something crazy like that.

@@shimona500 DT 350 hubs are *excellent* Been training and racing on them for years - tough XC and Gravel environment, too.

You got hit twice? You're lucky to not seriously hurt or writing off you6 bke6

Once upon a time

Parts availability...

My DT alu wheels developed slack in them after two years. Bearings very hard to replace.

​@@ketle369

@@ketle369 2 years? My front C 1800 is not 100% true anymore after only a few rides on trails... It's not that bad, but I'm

@@DR_1_1 Its on a roadbike. I dont jump that much on the road bike ;) Im above 100 kg!!

But with cup and cone bearing youre sh*** outta luck too if your cones are damaged and there arent replacements available. Like its the case with most 90s/early 2000s Shimano Hubs nowadays.

A set of cartridge bearings is about £10 and require zero maintenance. They also generally last a lot more than 5k. You also have the benefit of not wearing out you wheel hub and aging to service them every month.

@@Ryan.T89 My estimate of 5K miles is very conservative. As in for someone who has spare time, likes tinkering, and appreciates a bike that's running as well as it can. Someone like me. The reality is a set of cup-and-cone hubs could easily go three or four times that before being serviced and show no measurable wear. Many go the lifetime of the bike without ever becoming noticeably rough. The four dozen or so G25 ball bearings required cost ~$.03-.05 each, or a total of ~$1.50-2.40, and that's for both wheels. The required tools? A small flat head screwdriver to coax off the dust caps, a $5 set of cone wrenches, and about four tablespoons of marine grease. No pullers. No presses. No violent whacking.

@@speedy1490 That's not my experience. I've rebuilt a dozen or so Shimano hubs of that era, and some much older. I have yet to find one so badly worn that I could not resurrect it. I've seen one set that was being written off by its owner until I polished the races and showed him there was only very minor pitting. We rebuilt them, and they came out great. They will need more frequent servicing than usual going forward, but they were not a lost cause.

​​​​@@rangersmith4652yeah I've been regrinding cones for since 1990 and removing a significant amount of pitting Shimano cones take well to this. I now use a small cheap lathe to turn the cone ( back in 1990 I used a good drill with a very good bearing) and grind the pitting out completely with a dremal and elipsoid bit to match the original shape. Then polish with several grades of emery cloth. Rebuild with grade 25 through hardened chrome steel bearings. Sometimes I need to sdd a very thin spacer to get the alignment corrected if it was severe. But those hubs are still in service from 1990 . That pitting is always caused by adjusting the hub to tight . The rear hub should have just a tiny amount of play a 9mm axle front a bit more. If you want to get it perfect you can put a spacer that covers the nub of the axle and put the lever end of the quick release skewer next to the spacer and the nut end ( literally a 5mm × 0.8 metric nut)on the other side . Clamp it down as you would on the bike . Then adjust perfectly. You will be surprised how much play is in the front 9mm axle hub when the QR is released. So what happens if the hub is too tight then it will try to self adjust by chewing up the cone. I started doing this 35 years ago because we often only had those wheels manufacturing cones in stock and it didn't matter how well adjusted they still wore out in a few thousand miles. Like I stated the reground shimano's are still in service with well over 10K . The lathe does work better since it doesn't move about. Yeah top shelf grease Shimano DA is calcium based and does well. What marine grease are you using? I was using WD specialist true all purpose it was very good and handled heat 🔥 ...can't find it anymore. Lucas Red n Tacky is good too ...my test mule made three full years through the winter and it was still clean enough to just squirt some more in. I use mineral based ATF with a little red n tacky to thicken slightly for the freehub body oh so quiet. The nice thing about the red n tacky is that it flows well when the wheel is spinning and it's inexpensive and easily found out side of a bike shop. As a bicycle mechanic I've found so many of the products didn't work. DA is 35 dollars a pound....it just cost too much to use for everything I work on that would be like 300$ a year Motorex is about the same great stuff but just as expensive. Yeah I have a tendency to fill the bearing and let nature take it's corse. Except that right side of the freehub as you don't want to push the excess into the freehub body and get grease into the pawls...that's from rebuilding thousands of them ...they also lack grease from the factory as it probably depends on what day it was . Anyway Shimano's are the best right from the very bottom up, they really nailed the profile of the cone and materials....can't say how the new though axles are holding up though.

What grease would you recommend for 9velo hub?

It might, might be better. But they don’t provide spares. Nor are they obliged to under right to repair

DT Swiss special grease or SRAM butter works ok. You can’t use anything too viscous.

DT swiss don't even use that special 6903 bearing anymore on their new hubs. Most are standard 6902, 15267 or 17287. The hub that used to use the special 6903 was the 240s fifteen which came out well over 10 years ago.

@@Mapdec althoguh dt Swiss has ridiculous prices on their spare parts like those ratcheting teeth are $100, End caps are $50 , New freehub body is $100. Before purchasing my new wheels from magene. I asked about buying replacement hub parts for the wheels. They unfortunately told me they don’t do parts but you can buy the full hubs at $98 for rear, $68 for front USD.

I’ve got a pair of hand built mavic cxp33 and king hubs that ride like the day I bought them 20 years ago. Put them in my gravel bike.

I built 3 sets of exactly this over 10 years ago and they're still going strong with a little annual maintenance..........and the free hubs are so wonderfully quiet.

Open pro on sheriff stars here 😊❤

Ryanbuildswheels wheel builds are superb - best wheels I ever used. He build me a DTSwiss rims bomber and they are indestructible and so well built. Already did a maintenance couple times - super easy to service as well.

They would compare well. You did good.

Well said.

Agree! I'm currently rebuilding some dura ace 7850 hubs (10 speed,.rim brake) with new rims right now as I carefully maintained the cup and cone hubs over the years. Funnily enough (despite what the presenter says) I'm specifically using Pillar spokes and nipples because they are so easy to order from Ali Express here in Australia.

Gotta love my King hubs with Mavic CXP rims.

I´ve built my go to wheels now for my CX bike on Campagnolo Record hubs. What am I doing wrong?? Rgr

@@richardggeorge I have a pair of 7800, still running smoothly.

Mine DT Swiss also rusted in two months. Had to clean and regrease them every month.

True. Some alu nipples are like butter.

@@Mapdec These were made of stale cheddaranium

@@Mapdec aluminum nipples don't work in salt water of winter cycling at all. They also need the spokes to be long enough that they protrude into the slot. If they are too short they will have a tendency to fall. It better if the spokes are 1mm too long and the thread of the nipple is fully engaged than 1mm short of making it into the head of the nipple .

@@johnstevenson2405 it's true they fail from fatigue. An under tensioned wheel will generally fatigue quicker too. It's pretty hard to over tension a 14 - 15 guage double butted spoke they are stronger than the eyelet of the rim..so the eyelet will crack and fail first. Also the double butted spoke is easier on the eyelets than a staight 14 guage spoke. Alloy nipples will fail in the winter salt conditions. They also can't be short of the head if it only makes it into the shoulder it it will more likely fatigue. It's also important to back the twist out of the round spoke as the nipples will keep the seat and just the spoke with untwist and cuase the wheel to go out of true.. I was told to give the nipples a quick snap and back the twist. This advice came from a piano tuner and in my four decades of experience it really makes a difference. So does using a tensionometer. Uniform tension is much more important than perfectly round and straight. Matching the tension to the riders weight and riding habits also makes a difference in ride quality. The wheel is a dynamic system so what is good for one person won't necessarily be good for the next person. And when the wheel sings, it's true and ready to ride like the wind.

Ouch.

This is a familiar mavic story

Hes a bad tempered so and so (online with Campy bashers) and a bloody good, helpful chap that builds a very strong wheel and stands behind it.

Yes. Service your freehub.

@@Mapdec 👍 thanks. I'll take a look. Wheels are only 5 rides/2.5 weeks old but I suppose it could be lacking grease from the factory.

@@jarrahfitzgerald2752 odd for Shimano wheels. They use a sealed freehub. Have you checked cassette is installed ok, not rubing on frame.

@@Mapdec I haven't checked that, as I sent it back to the shop for them to check, but they say everything is perfectly fine. I'll pick it up tomorrow and have to start trying to diagnose it myself (with help from RU-vid!). Thanks again for your replies. If I could fly my bike to the UK for a service I would!

Eveey one of my two dozen or so has some sort of Shimano hub in it built with DT spokes . They are older than 20 years and not one is the top model. The thing about Shimano is the bearing surface is angular contact so they take the side load well and the cone and cups a sufficiently hard and hold up to through hardened chrome steel bearings. Many have double seals and the cassette also has a seal on the back side use good grease ( Dura Ace is very good and similar to Motorex , been usin Lucas Red n Tacky with decent results and mineral based ATF with a little red n tacky to thicken it a little (just a little)for the freehub then fill the back side of it and put the seal back in ...nice and quiet) and they last for many decades. Every one of these hubs were used before I built them into a new wheel many with regrouped cone surfaces. The big killer is overly tight adjustment there should be a tiny tick of play before the quick release is clamped down....more for a front with a nine mm axle. This of course is all old school and through axles are a bit different and might not need any play or more like a barley discernable amount as they won't compress as much when installed. The problem with radial contact cartridge bearings is the need very precise alignment and when they are perfectly aligned the hub will have a tiny amount of play and if they aren't aligned well then they wear faster. Another nice thing about the Shimano freehub body is the play in it can be adjusted to a minimum and they have two ratchet pawls a 120° apart. So when it's engaged it forces the body against the third leg ( the ball bearings) and is solidly fixed under load.

@@stevengagnon4777 all very good points! here in east europe lucas oil stuff is not often seen and i'm not sure what grease i use to be honest. it is green, so could be shimano. ATF is automatic transmission fluid? lately i found an amazing grease i have yet to try in bicycles, liqui moly marine grease called "bootsfett". i use it in the skateboard bearings for riding it in the rain, and i'm so happy about that grease i tell everyone about it. i think it may be a bit thick for bicycle use but maybe not

Sadly, light and stiff wheels make a huge difference. Getting light and stiff to be reasonably cheap is fairly easy. Making them remotely durable is not so easy or cheap.

@@Mapdec I suppose that the real question might be how fast and efficient do we need to be? For pro's and serious amateur racers it is a requirement, taking benefit of every imaginable bit of help you can buy but for the rest of us, basically just having fun and getting some healthy exercise, that extra money would likely be better spent on taking some cycling holidays and getting some additional miles in the legs. I would still like to try the expensive wheels though, just like I would love to have a go behind the wheel of e.g. an Aston Martin 😄

@@_J.F_ let me know when you get an Aston, I’ll lend you some wheels in exchange

@@Mapdec Tell you what, that is a deal 🤩

Spank 359

We have talked hope a lot before.

wow, thanks for the heads up! I’ve had a similar experience with Shimano wheels, and their unique and individual to each wheel spokes, which can’t be found for replacement

They might be accurately machined, but that’s kind of irrelevant if they are disposable at the first sign of wear and tear.

Sad. As the world has gone carbon mad, the production volumes on good alu has dropped. Alu works best at high production as it’s an extrusion method. The main cost is machine set up.

Where do you order pillar spokes from?

@@Mapdec Their German distributor is tops, large stock. Oh, wait.. Brexit... Rgr

I was 115 kg and have Mavic Cosmic alu wheels. No problems in three years.

100kg on 200quid Cero AR24,s. Super hilly area. Several sets. never an issue. Parts available.

Perfect. I hope they improve the XT hub soon. That silent mucrospline version has not done well.

You're very welcome

Dt swiss hubs aren’t state of the art, they’re just okay

@@RylHango maybe not the hubs are SOTA, but the rest are. And I’d say the hubs are solid, reliable and proven though perhaps “bland”. I’m perfectly OK with that!