Dual Port airtube, Single Port airtube, is one better than the other? 

Yes sir. Love those 22 rifle vids of yours.

Thanks for watching the channel and pitchin' in with some real world observations. The ideal port size, port location and interior diameter of the air tube is still being worked on here at Restomod but is not a front burner project at the moment. I've been using the dual port 'Blue Hare" tube built by Jonathan Bates over at Black Barrel Customs for my most recent experiments and find that it works pretty well. you can check that out at: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jW78634rocw.html He sent me one of his "Conestoga" builds based on a current production Daisy 105 Buck with a ton of mods including a "Blue Hare" air tube and the gun runs a consistent 400 FPS with a standard Daisy Red Ryder mainspring. It's remarkable!

​@@RestOModDaisy lol another gearhead here but I have an idea. With your dual port version you have dual streams of air coming in from both sides. Air has momentum just like everything else. Air is coming in one side and due to momentum is fighting the air coming in the other port. Now compound that with the dead air between the ports and crimp creating vacuum. It's just like the old school breathers on a carburetor. If you remember the center was like a dome with air coming in from all directions before going 90° into the carburetor. By flipping the breather lid upside down it created an inverted dome eliminating most of the dead space where vacuum was created above the carburetor. Perhaps if you could pin a wedge shaped divider inside the tube it could fix both of those issues.

@@nashvilleoutlaw Thanks for the input on airtube mods. As you can see from the comment section here, there are a lot guys with a lot knowledge on this topic! I just got a custom shot tube and piston combo from Terry Cowger (America's Top Custom Daisy Modder) that ditches the airtube completely. I'm planning to install it on each of the guns in my Range Remuda and see how it runs. Expectations are in the 500 FPS range based on tests by Terry and Mark Ritter over at Cobalt 327.

@@RestOModDaisy That's cool I can't wait to see the results. Does he have a website? I'd love to see what all is different from stock. I had something similar to a buck 30+years ago and just ordered a red ryder yesterday so it should be in this weekend. 500+fps would be really nice with a single pump lever action. That'll rival the old powerline 880's without all of the pumping, the metal ones not the new plastic junk ones of course.

@@nashvilleoutlaw Terry has a RU-vid channel located here: www.youtube.com/@BB-BLASTERS-BY-TC but if you want the skinny on the latest and greatest on these super high speed muzzle loading shot tubes head over the The High Road forum and check out the "$15 Dollar Daisy" thread. Pages 72 to 77 provide a whole lot of detail. I consider that thread to be the Modern Daisy Modders Bible www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/putting-a-little-more-power-in-a-15-00-daisy.807316/

I'll explore that on the next prototype but only after I build a single port version first. The interior diameter of the stainless tube is huge compared to the 7/64" overbore and should transport quite a bit more air. We'll see what happens!

was thinking very similar, a little offset and oval them a little. don't want the holes so large diameter it makes it weak, but surface area of the two holes should be slightly larger than surface area of exit hole. making the ovals (diamond burr in a dremel?) kinda leaning the holes in direction of air flow. offset may need slightly more than 1/16" (not much!), this is fun "little engine" stuff.

@@modelnutty6503 Aren't you an RC car aficionado? This is basically and exhaust problem so what do you RC modders do for better exhaust flow?

@@RestOModDaisy The larger ID of the SS tube is the issue. Larger dia means slower velocity for the same volume of air. that's one of the benefits of the original air tubes, they were hardier and also had a smaller ID so the exit velocity of the air is faster. As my dad was fond of saying, my dollar against your nickel.....

@@tomr9306 An interesting wager. I know for a fact that the 7/64" overbore single port airtubes provide more velocity than the stock OEM tubes. I have oodles of chrono readings to verify that. The dual port tubes in thin wall stainless did provide a very slight bump but not consistently and certainly not worth the effort involved in fabbing them up. I have yet to investigate further and have recieved lots of info on port size, port placement and possibly inducing some kind of 'swirl" into the airflow via internal flutes. I think the parameters of the bet are a bit wide, but if you want to nail down some details, single port/dual port/standard tube/overbore tube etc, I have a Nickel to risk.

Craigster, I was told there would be no math. The results of this experiment indicate you are right, the larger tube diameter did not result on more speed on this build. More experiments later!

Just a thought. I say if you just reduce the tips Inside diameter to the OEM spec via insert or rolled with a manderal . Bottlenecking it right before the BB instead of at the beginning of the tube.

@@benjohnson2421 Nope! that will create turbulent airflow. You need a smooth bore of the optimum diameter.

@@craigster1952 There is a thing called tube restriction. You could turn little internal cone to direct a smooth flow. It gets bottlenecked in the tube entrance anyway. So how is forcing more air volume (larger ID) faster right behind the bb and max pressuer at the tip instead of 3" behind the BB at the seals, not work? Nozzles work better for pushing things along.

Weaved in a spring for a toy version of the RedRyder (model 900 something) with the spring for my Heddon 102. Gots some balls now. Its shorter so your can still set the spring with ease. Doesn't take hold till you cock it.

I agree! I'd love to see a video about your modding experience. The current production abutment seal is pretty stout and I don't think you'll suffer any long term damage as a result of the occasional failure to fire. Gravity feed systems do require elevation of the muzzle for consistent operations. Your speed increase is on par with what I've seen in converted current production guns with the same set up. What made Johnathan's build so interesting was he got that same bump without a high power spring, one of the foundations of the power triad as I've come to understand it. Of the two variables, a dual port air tube and an an incredibly long shot tube I could only replicate the air tube. It was enough was not enough to replicate the result so it's time to redo the airtube and start looing into extending the shot tubes. Shoot the video! It's fun!

@@RestOModDaisy I live up here in WA state so as soon as we get a break in our winter rain, I will set up the chrony and make some video. One thing I think we need to take into account is the mass of the power assembly. The spring isn't just compressing air, it is having to move the weight of the spring, air tube, washer, seal, cross pin, assembly struts and stirup forward. I believe the weight reduction in Johnathans brass air tube setup also contributes to the velocity increase. I think your thin wall tube weighs less than factory Daisy and should result in an increase, just in weight reduction. I also believe if someone were to "swiss cheese" the power assembly struts to reduce weight but not strength that there should be a velocity increase. I think the Daisy single port design and air gathering channels of the compression seal and abutment washer, are a manufacturing simplification. Allowing the port to always align with an air channel, during rapid manufacturing. Also it takes less time and cost to make one functional hole in the air tube. The old dual port design did not need air channelization. I think the dual port design would work better without the air channels. I believe if a custom smooth faced compression seal were used this would reduce weight, increase air chamber volume and flow better into the dual ports. It might even work better if smaller ports were used in a quad port configuration. If a custom smooth faced compression seal were made, a smooth faced abutment would need to be configured as well. I believe an effort of maximizing air chamber volume for the given space and reducing the weight of the power assembly will allow a weaker spring to perform more efficiently. Another untested theory is that of flat wound springs. A flat wound power spring can give you more available energy for less weight in the same space as a round wound coil spring. I have been using a flat wound hammer spring in one of my PCP's with great success.

@@Backin_Theday Man that's a lot! Head over to this page before the snow leaves and take a gander www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/putting-a-little-more-power-in-a-15-00-daisy.807316/ It's the Daisy Modder Bible and it's 59 pages of ad hoc engineering. More food for thought!

@@RestOModDaisy Looks Like need to register there. Just the highlight public view looks like lots of people have tried many variations.

@@Backin_Theday It's a steady work in progress and well worth the price of admission.

After the model there is a “registration” number L175238

@@WalnutandSteel The registration number system was started by Daisy in 1952 and evolved for a few decades until the lot number system replaced. Here's link to article about that over at J&G airguns that was extracted from David Albert and Gary Garber, major Daisy Guru's www.jgairguns.biz/daisy-register-lot-and-serial-numbers-explained-ezp-55.html Best I can figure based on the Lot number is November 1981 since the lot number switch happened in 1972. Yours does have a bottle cap right?

It is a bottle cap

@@WalnutandSteel That makes it pre 1978-79 as that's when they switched to the fixed shot tube/abutment assembly. Could be 1981 or 1971 on the manufacturing date.

Thanks for the help! I had read an article online that said the 98 was only made from 55-60 and then again in the mid to late 70’s. Do you know if that is the case?

Willace, thanks for jumping in and welcome aboard! I'd love to hear more about your work. Other than really clean the compression chamber I've never thought about relining it. Is this a mod you do on the pre-1978 Daisy's with the metal abutment washer or is it doable on the shot tube/abutment assembly guns? 415 FPS has my attention, especially with the standard spring. There are some folks working on a 499 repeater, head over to the High Road Forum and check the last 6-7 pages of this thread www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/putting-a-little-more-power-in-a-15-00-daisy.807316/page-56 They're working on getting a highly modified Model 25 shot tube married up with a 499b abutment for use in a 400+ FPS Daisy repeater. Quite interesting.

@@RestOModDaisy I'd say it is possible with all years. The modern guns use a shelf to retain the abutment, which does make things easier. I have a machine shop setup in the garage. Two mills, a lathe, etc. Certainly comes in handy for making those one-off parts to make things work. Lining the tube was the first thought since it is seamed and promotes pressure loss. I've not seen one that wasn't. Once I found the actual bore size of the compression chamber and machined up the appropriate brass tube, it was retained in place using the spring anchor retainer point so it didn't slide during operation. Looking at the diagrams for the 499, seems pretty straightforward. A new abutment will need machined to accommodate the model 25 shot tube along with the addition of an actual plunger assembly. The approach will be to go with a one piece abutment which incorporates an o-ring seal that rests inside the brass seamless compression tube, yet rests on the shelf if the faux barrel. Found an old 499 on ebay I may just grab up and try.

@@willacewallace5905 Please keep us in the loop on your project. IRRC the 499 plunger assembly does not utilize an airtube like other Daisy's but is muzzle loading single shot rifle, so you'll need to mod the factory plunger head to account for that. Any possibilities of making some videos of the process?

@@RestOModDaisy Sure thing. I'll do up some videos. Though, just picked up a Daisy 1000 at a good price. So, the 1000 will be the test mule for mods. The first gun that was modified I gave away on an airgun forum (Yellow) a few years back in a raffle. I sent you PM on eBay asking about wide body stocks. Looking to see where they are sold or it if you have them for sale.

@@willacewallace5905 Willace, I've been off the ebay platform for about a year as their draconian communications policies were just too much to bear. I still do stock work but haven't done a Fat Bob glue up since about March. Seems everybody wants a Slim Jim. Send me an email and we can what we can do.

Thanks drtstar1! I'm pretty sure the crimp is ok but there might be some blow back along the out side of the airtube wall. I'll know more after I get the next air tube built with a single port for comparison. I'm also gonna have to try adding shot tube length to see if that gets me closer to Nathans numbers.

@@RestOModDaisy I’d also be curious to see the dimensions of the stainless tubing vs Nathan’s brass tubing. If precision ground bb’s make that much difference, I’m sure nominal wall thickness of a few thousandths could contribute to your air loss.

@@drtstar1 Good point. I know there a difference between the OD of the Stainless tube and the OD of a stock Daisy air tube, and the stock Daisy tube will allow you to see some daylight if inserted into the base of the Model 25 shot tube. I'm hopeful that the .135" ID of the stainless tube with provide more air once I can get the port size/location/number sussed out.

The air tube transfers the compressed air charge from the compression chamber to the rear of the shot tube when the trigger is pulled and the plunger is released. The tip of the airtube makes contact with the BB in and kick starts the the BB on it's way as the compressed air accelerates it down the barrel to the intended target so it's a combination of the two forces.

@@RestOModDaisy Love this but never knew! Thankyou for explaining. You're awesome!

Wonder if the air tube tip actually hits the bb? Air may have the bb moving before tip gets there 😂

True. I used a 1/8" drill bit for both ports. The good news is that the airtube ran 450+ BB's through he gun flawlessly and there is no indication of shot peening on the tip. There are some suspicious marks on the shaft about .80" above the inlet ports as well as some straight line wear near the tip of the air tube. This was used with a current production Model 25 shot tube and was powered by a Cobalt 237 Super Spring in a Daisy Model 1838 Red Ryder receiver with a metal stamped trigger and a synthetic seal set. We'll see how the next couple of prototype fare with some tweaks.

​@@RestOModDaisy See if you can maybe offset the holes for a vortex type of action. Instead of drilling them at right angles... try canting them in an upward fashion and off slightly to one side. Obviously I tend to agree with Blackie about offsetting them.

If we could get the air to flow like this, we'd be bb kings. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fj2JEj6XCi8.html

Andre, I don't speak your language. Can you get a translation done?

@@RestOModDaisy I don't understand how that tube works in the gun. What is that tube for!?