We all know he survived, played possum until they left and then bandaged himself up and left for Tahiti and started being the best mango farmer there ever was
@@Sir_TigerShark ikr, cuz he was obviously wearing bullet proof armour when they shot his body afterwards and strategically place fake blood there knowing they would shoot him there.
Because John let that life go while Dutch was fighting the “good fight” but I think in the end he came to terms with the end of The Wild West era and he rather have just killed himself then just to be another listed body to the new corrupt government
It's even more symbolic when you look at the gun both character use. Dutch was weilding a Luger P08 and John was using an M1911. The era of revolvers and lever rifle is at an end, the 2 types of guns that defined the wild west is about to be replace. Compares to their time in RDR2, John and Dutch are nothing more than just a remnant of a bygone era and their weapon reflect that fact.
“Our time has passed” Arthur said the same thing and Dutch won’t listen to him. 12 years later, he says the same thing. Guess Arthur was right all along.
He always knew, but like he said, he can't give up either. He was born a fighter, in a time of fighters, but he couldn't just change who he was when times changed to a more peaceful era.
Course Arthur was right. Arthur was not blinded by nostalgia and idealism like Dutch, he accepted what was happening, even if he didn’t like it. I the second act of the game, Arthur was telling John exactly this, and how he (Arthur) would die with the world that was left behind.
This is my favorite scene from both games. Knowing full context makes it even more heartbreaking. Dutch started by sounding like a broken record. But his last two sentences were so heavy.
Rings true with every generation. “All the time you spend tryin to get back what's been took from you there's more goin out the door.” “You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity.”
“Our time has passed John.” I feel like this perfectly describes America’s golden age being behind us. I can’t believe what is currently transpiring in this country.
"You always got a plan Dutch" To think that Rockstar took this one line and made an entire prequel revolving around it more than anything else. The detail in their stories is insane.
It isn’t like that. Dan houser and some of the older higher members of rockstar had already made the story structure of what they wanted the two games to be like years before rdr2. With rd1 clearly being about the death of the Wild West entirely, and rd2 being about the death of outlaws specifically. While the entirety of rd2 story obviously wasn’t fully panned out the jist of what we got was already pre planned like most movie/game sequels
So many people think Dutch had a concussion in RDR2, justifying his end-of-game madness. I think that undercuts this scene. Personally, I think it was the Blackwater Massacre. For the first time, Dutch had to confront the fact that people don’t see his gang as free men who live like Robin Hoods living outside an unjust world. His own personal philosophy, as he later says to Milton, would suggest this is a firmly held belief. When he killed Heidi, all of a sudden his life can’t be justified anymore, and all that philosophy went out the window. He saw himself for the monster he truly is, but he couldn’t just let himself get turned in and admit that; that’s the paradox. When he tells John “our time has passed,” he’s not just talking about the days of outlaws in the west, he’s saying their entire philosophy, that men can be free of the bondage and all-consuming maw of civilization, is over. They won. But he can be free in a death that was of his making, not theirs.
Joseph Cirilo This is a nice of putting it! Although, with the concussion, Dutch does say that his head hurts. Now granted flying into a trolley roof would definitely hurt you. So I could be wrong
“When I’m gone, they’ll just find another monster. They have to. To justify their wages.” Sad part is Dutch is on point. Once he’s pronounced dead, they’ll move onto the outlaw. It’ll be like Dutch never existed.
Man after playing rdr2 this is just depressing in rdr2 dutch was all confident and mighty and strong (up until the end) but here he just knew that this is the end of the outlaw era just hearing him say "our time has passed... john" damn just damn this game was epic
Right? It makes some of the lines have so much more meaning now. "You got to run and don't look back" was said by Mary to Arthur then later Arthur to John John repeats his "People don't forget" line to Hosea during a conversation at camp Hell even Dutch's "I got a plan"
What a beautiful, sad and sombering scene. Dutch is probably the coolest most charismatic villain Rockstars ever made. Watching his descend into madness from rdr2 to rdr1 was an amazing story.
It’s not an insult to call him a villain, it’s just acknowledging what he was. I love Dutch, one of my favorite video game characters, Im an easy sell for tragic characters that are done well.
@thewreckofisgard6380 @trent2kg813 yes he was. He undoubtedly was. He was just a villain who had what some people would call “justifiable” or “understandable” motives.
When I saw Dutch die when I first played Red Dead Redemption in 2012, I thought that he was a crazy old man. But when I was playing this for my third play through after finishing rdr2, it actually brought a tear to my eye.
Same here, I never cared for Dutch when I first played RDR. At the time, he was just a means to an end. A man with a backstory only hinted in brief talks that John had with people that didn't, and did know who he was. Playing RDR2 though, you tend to see the man that he was, the reason as to why John and co. followed him, and the beginning of his downfall.
I had the opposite reaction. I glorified Dutch. He seemed to have it all figured out, he fought with the natives, he warned John about finding a new monster, his final speech was philosophical. But then after playing rdr2, I started to see him as a crazy man
“My whole life all I ever did was fight”. I remember breaking down into tears when I first played this: My Grandfather said those exact words before he lost the fight to Cancer..
hes my fav character even after the betrayals, he may not be a good man, but he can be a leader and great speaker, and def the most manipulative, dang i would go to Tahiti everytime after he said it 😂 still cant understand why he even trusted that fool Micah, who knows, but its really weird to me just imagine Micah for example threatening Dutch, maybe i missed some lines but cant get over it, Dutch would have that temper yk, Arthur and John are legends too ofc, Charles is a good man, but theres that charisma that is keeping me saying that Dutch is my fav character
@@relaxationandblossom i think Dutch kept micah around because he saw in micah the same dark parts of himself. Being around micah meant he didnt have to put on the charade of the elightened outlaw. , He could just be the savage killer he really was and not be judged for it.
@@BoomerDante more because while others were starting to see Dutch go against his own words, making bad decisions, and disagreeing with him. Micah stayed by his side and "trusted" him, manipulating him, and motivated him to keep making those decisions that ended up tearing the gang apart
We can't always fight nature, John. We can't fight change. We can't fight gravity. We can't fight incest. My whole life, John, all I ever did was fight.
@@Nani_M to be fair there's no real evidence that jack killed ross except witness testimony, but even then, duels were completely legal back then so he wouldn't go to jail for exacting revenge.
"My whole life, all I ever did was fight..." That's the best line Dutch says, imo. Everyone has a fight in one way or another, but some people cannot afford to take a break, to have help, and that's relatable af even in today's world. Awesome game and ending.
This is a sad scene knowing everything they went through from arguments to deaths, party's and everything and they just all end like nothing existed but like Dutch said their time the wild west had ended
I hear you, but I still think this game sells it. There's a lot of subtle acting in Dutch's and John's faces, eyes as they talk. The voice acting alone is enough to make this just as resonant as anything in RDR2
@@sullysquid674 only suggestion, but dutch holds german borchardt pistol while john american 1911. Central powers in ww1 (germany, austria, ottoman empire) were monarchies with little or no limitations in monarch's power. In the same time, Entante (USA, UK, France) were either republics or limited monarchy. It might be the Dutch's german pistol means the past and the John's american 1911 the future. It is only my suggestion I have no idea what meant the author of the original comment
@@rundewiese58 The gun Dutch uses partially adds to his hypocrisy too. A man who puts so much focus on a tribal, primitivistic lifestyle, uses a somewhat modern gun, drives a car, has a bathtub in his lair and reads books. John's 1907 (it isn't a Colt M1911, rather an FN 1907, fun fact) instead mirrors his "current" allegiance, the police. He was forced to join the ones he always stood against.
@@rundewiese58 hm.. Interesting idea.. But the German Empire did have limitations to the Emperor. In fact, he couldn't do nothing, if the government, especially the Chancellor does not approve. The Empire at this time counted to one of the most civilized and modern countries of the world, along with Great Britain, France, USA ect. But like the comment below explained, maybe there is this hypocrisies, which creates the symbolism. But not bad idea.
I've always loved Dutch as a character, even tho we barely saw him in RDR1, but something about him was just so intriguing. So glad R* expanded and explored his character with RDR2, and brought back the same actors to portray these iconic roles.
This whole scene is probably some of the greatest moments in gaming for me and 12 years later his final speech hits even more for me as I grew older and of course after playing RDR 2.
This is hands down one of the most quotable scenes in all gaming for me personally. My friends and I still this quote can recite this word for word, and it's been 14 long years. I got a plan, John...
Hello again, John. Hello, Dutch. We gotta stop meeting like this. Sure. I got a plan, John. You always got a plan, Dutch. This is a good one. I don't doubt it. We can't always fight nature, John. We can't fight change. We can't fight gravity. We can't fight nothin'. My whole life, all I ever did was fight. Then give up, Dutch! But I can't give up neither. I can't fight my own nature. That's the paradox, John. You see? Then I'll have to shoot you. When I'm gone they'll just find another monster. They have to. Because they have to justify their wages. That's their business. Our time is passed, John.
I never knew a fictional man could teach me so much. A little quote of my own: "There are some men born to live, and some men born to die. Whether honest and humble, or lying and thieving. We all want the world in our grasp, no matter the cost."
This is my favorite scene because dutch literally in a way tells John he will be next to die "when I'm gone they'll just have to find another monster they have to to justify their wages"
@@theowodepot7992 the way he said that man fuck. This game and it's sequel were really more than just games so many important underlying themes that made up this game
"Our time has passed, John." I felt that man...with everything changing in the world and old things being taken out and new things replacing the old things. It sucks, but we can't fight change.
There is something pretty actual with this sequence, more spiritual than just a game. Like i mean it could symbolize the fact that old players that are now around 30 years old played this game when they were kids and then now its another generation that does so the « Our time’s passed John » really means something really heartbreaking in reality which means that old people are not young anymore and then have to move on in life whereas kids play just like they did.
@@GamerTech28 No, no, no pal, don't correct me when I'm right. The lyrics are clearly *Amidst a CRASH OF WORLDS* Still don't believe me? Well, here is the goddamn song. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mBMKuEfQrV4.html
You know you're obsessed when you know all the dialogues word by word. Damn these 2 games are a work of art, never fail to give me chills down my spine whenever I watch any of these scenes
"We gotta stop meeting like this" I love how back when this was released we always wondered to what extent this meant and why it was prevalent. Now having played Red Dead 2, it hit's so much deeper.
When Benjamin Byron Davis (Dutch) first recorded this scene, he yelled “our time as passed John” as Dutch fell down the side of the mountain and everyone thought he was being funny.
Arthur crawls while coughing towards the edge of the cliff as the peaceful guitar music begins to set in. The sun beams begin to break over the horizon as Arthur sits up against apart of the mountain. The sun breaks through the horizon and shines brightly, and Arthur's coughing slows. This is it, you realise, as that music in.
"You've always got a plan, Dutch." With this sentence, we understand that Rockstar has written the story of the RDR universe beautifully and connected the two games beautifully. Vravo Bince 👏👏
i fucking love the “we gotta stop meeting like this” idk what it’s implying to back in rdr but after rdr2 it made perfect sense cuz of american venom, holy shit rockstar are time travelers or something
my all time favorite video game speech. i hate dutch to a passion, but the full weight of all his bad decisions coming down on him at once is terribly poetic. i played red dead 1 when it first came out and it became my favorite game almost instantly. this speech had always impacted me. i then proceeded to spend the next 8 years yearning for a sequel, and after playing red dead 2, it became a hell of a lot more significant. i’ll always be thankful to rockstar for allowing me to experience such a clusterfuck of emotions all at once. red dead is my greatest experience.
“I got a plan, John; and it’s a good one” - Dutch Van Der Linde 1911 “It sounds about as good as it has every time I’ve heard it before Dutch” - John Marston 1899
One word that said Dutch I cannot fight my own nature that means a lot when's dealing of his mind of always seeking plans for remains himself safe and sound but he couldn't for his bad actions a message to learn about it
Imagine had not immediately killed him and John found him wheezing, struggling to breath and it was Ross who came in delivering the mercy, fatal wound because John still didn't have heart to shoot.
