Thank you David. There is always allot of conjecture on forums so it can be hard to sift through it all. We try and report things we find to help clear up some of that as best we can and hope that it helps. Thanks for the comment!
What did you pick up from them? I've got the stage 6 pcv, auto tune, air box, air injection delete, and dirt tricks chain tensioners lol. So far I'm pretty happy.
Wow...unbelievable. My 2002 Aprilia Mille Haga replica was carbureted but burned in a forest fire. KTM 1290 will be my first FI bike. I want it to run correctly with full potential. Who wouldn't....right?
Great video! Interesting to see the ECU "fight" the PC changes in the closed loop part of the map. I knew about that, but it was quite impactful to see it happen in real time. There really is almost no value in running a PC with the factory O2 sensor in place. Have bought a few things for my Husky 701 from Rottweiler including their fueling dongle, which on it's own makes a massive difference at part throttle for the reasons shown in the video. If ya decide to do nothing else to your new 690/700/701, get the dongle. Just do it. Am quite familiar with using Power Commanders from other bikes I have owned, I like that Rottweiler has done the dyno runs and mapping as that is a significant value added feature. One usually has to take their bike to a tuner for a custom map after purchasing a PC, since Dynojet is basically useless when it comes to offering maps for their own products. The "canned" maps from Rottweiler for the various configurations their customers likely will run may not be perfect for every individual bike, but they are going to be far better than guessing, and likely nearly has good as a custom tune done by someone who knows what they are doing and actually has the bike in their shop. Even guessing has some value though, as one can view the PC table as an opportunity to install a more tapered needle in a carb. Add some fuel in the part throttle "eyeball" that the video mentions. Full throttle is generally "safely rich" from the manufacturers so leave that mostly alone. Even just guessing one can make it better - been there, done that with my '06 FZ1 and it was far better after doing so. Finally broke down and had a good tuner flash the ECU on that bike and now it is at an even smoother revvier level. My FZ went from reluctant and vibey in stock form, to much more responsive and smooth with my guessing with the map and with an Akra full exhaust, to utterly effortless show me the rev limiter liquid revs with the pro tune and the exhaust. The bike totally rips! There are gains to be had from stock without any doubt, and this PC with map installed package looks like a great way to go.
Your observations are right on the money Craig. The tunes we make are in house and will get the customer 95% of the way there, wherever they are, and if they really want to spend the money on a dyno tune they can, but it's usually diminishing returns because most tuners who test our maps (who are honest) usually tell the customer that they can't really get the tune much better, and if they can, you are spending $500 for one or two HP somewhere. We usually get them most of the way there and that works great for almost everyone. Dynojet's maps these days are only in open loop, which is mostly useless and they know it, but they are under such scrutiny that they have to comply. We fill in the rest and know exactly what these bikes want and where. Thanks for the input and we are really glad you are happy with what we are doing.
@@RottweilerPerformance Thanks for the kind reply. I have a Yosh slip on, twin air foam filter kit and the dongle on my 701 now and it runs quite well, but I will be pinging you for the Power Commander with your settings for my config loaded on it. I just can't leave it alone when I know it can be even better, much as I described with my FZ1 experience. Your mapping being 95% of the way there is more than close enough for nuclear bombs and big KTM based thumpers. The hours I spent fooling around with tweaking and testing the PC maps on my FZ1. Even got a small bit of Internet notoriety, as my "Duken4evr FZ1 Map pack" has been downloaded many times, it is even being run in bikes over in Japan. People thought I knew what I was doing, but as I mentioned, a good guess can lead to a part of the way there improvement. It is so much easier to tweak a PC map than to swap jets and needles in an inline 4's rack of carbs, so I figured why not, and forum people jumped on board 😆 The thing I found, especially with the inline 4s, is when the engine's tuning is "on" it's vibration smooths out, it just feels eager and "creamy". When they are a little lean, they feel slightly put upon and "thrummy". Riding a bike with the tuning optimized is a tactile joy indeed, what Mr. Honda described many years ago as a "fine drive feeling". Absolute bang for buck, it is hard to beat your dongle. Sure, the PC5 is some money, but the dongle is so easy and worth the small outlay and effort to install - it is a total no brainer, even for bikes running the stock exhaust.
@@craighoffman6876 You won't be disappointed with a Powercommander on that bike. We get really good results on those. Even better than some of the bigger bikes.
@@RottweilerPerformance Sweet! Count me in on the PC. I know the 690 engine runs lean and hot. Just got a lower temp 80/85C thermo switch for the radiator fan as the stock switch is set way too high for tough off road work, no doubt for emissions. I will get it there, the bike only has 140 miles on it 😎
Alrighty then! Received my PC6 from you guys, installed it and took it for a good ride today, about 120 miles. Yes indeed, your mapping rocks! The bike ran well with just the fueling dongle before, but it really runs on point now. A few specifics: The engine lugs way down low so much better now. Before if I was going much below 55 in 6th gear it felt boggy down there. In contrast, today I slowed down to 35 in 6th, eased in some throttle and it simply moved forward in a solid way - very different than before. As nice as that top gear low end stuff is, the far more solid off idle low end should really help when riding off road and going slow in 1st gear. Instead of slipping the clutch, just gas it, let it grunt and turn the tire (the world is your clutch man!) like a good big bore thumper should. The solid low end is really going to help when riding on tighter terrain and at even higher elevations. Tiny throttle changes are met with alert and on point response with no softness. It is not jumpy or anything, just more direct and responsive. One doesn't have to scrounge around rotating the throttle much to gain 10 MPH, just a dab will do. Big throttle inputs are met with solid no delay and impressive power. Initiating 3rd gear wheelies was pretty impossible before the PC6 (again, I am at 6,000 feet in Colorado). I wound it on hard at 50 MPH in 3rd and it did a beautiful long hanging power wheelie. Oh ya! No doubt the bike would be in my lap if I did that kind of throttle winding at sea level. Super burly man! Best of all, the bike feels creamier, revvier and it is simply way more fun to ride at all throttle settings and RPM. Well done guys, I am one happy customer.
Really nice video !! It would be really nice to have a video to explain all the maps of the 790r. How its works, how its affecting bike behavior etc...
WHat will happen if i install only the fuel dongle?It will set to rich mixture for all the time?Husky 701 2020?What about outside temp changes, will it affect mixture? Noob here
Our fueling dongle is extremely popular and effective on that model. It really helps with the stumbling down low and the reviews on that part have been amazing. Looking at the fueling dongle only is fine. Consider it like this: A fueling dongle only is like only changing the pilot jet. It will only help on the very bottom. A Power Commander V is like a full jetting kit that covers everything and is tunable. Temps are still measured at the intake temp sensor, engine, and other places. The bike will still tune itself for different conditions, but it will no longer be shooting for 14.7 AFR through sampling the exhaust. That gets removed from the equation but the bike still adjusts for other conditions no problem. We would just recommend reading all of the reviews on the site about them. That may help you understand how well they work. www.rottweilerperformance.com/rottweiler-fueling-dongle/
I have a 2020 KTM 690 smc r. I want to purchase a slip on exhaust. Preferably the fmf 4.1 what do I have to do to the bike if I do that? I’m new to this kinda stuff. Any info helps thanks!
Pretty sure I read on your site that if u have a pcv you dont need a dongle because a plug from the pcv goes where the dong would. Is this not correct?
Is there any benefit to running the fueling dongles without the power commander? I have a 2020 KTM 1290 Super Duke R and it bucks really hard when I practice doing tight turns at slow parking lot speeds, as well as just a general choppy throttle response in low RPM and low speed / higher gear situations. Could it be the lean fueling from the closed loop? Would the fueling dongle fix this?
Yes but not on that bike unfortunately. We are working on a tuning solution for the 20+ Super Duke models but the dongles we offer currently only work on 2019 and before. We have another solution that we are working on though so stay tuned.
But didn't people found the SDR1290 to run better a bit lean? i've read some threads online that the bike looses power when mapping a rich AFR, and that the better results are on lean AFR, so would that mean that the perfect AFR is always above 15?
But why is it that a bunch of CRF owners claim the Power Commnder fails to fix fueling problems for those models whereas the much more expensive Vortex CPU totally does? I don't know anything but it seems like perhaps the abilities of a Power commander are limited as compared to what is otherwise possible? Moot question I guess because I find ZERO Vortex CPUs available for 2019+ 690 ktms
Would be awesome to install the complete intake kit, but where i live thats very illegal, if i get caught it would cost a few K $! And i could loose my bike for a few months. My bike is a husky 2018, would it be a lot louder than stock? Any dzb. tests done? Is canister and sas delete optional to the intake or a must?
So the ecu can't adjust for altitude, when you scrap the O2s, correct? ...and fuel range is reduced. I'd leave the 02s, and re-map, (if I wanted more power for the TC system to cut). For exhaust, I'm starting with a de cat and can, for sound and weight savings (~8lbs). I doubt I'll be disappointed in the power. From what I'm hearing, the bike will run well with these mods, and no re-map/fuel controller. We'll see. Your work on KTMs is great-nice to have options. Just ordered some parts off your site for the 890 Adv R I'm picking up this am. :)
The ECU has temp and baro sensors, it adjusts for altitude referencing it's built in map. Plenty of older bikes with FI and no O2 sensors. It was better back then, as the O2 sensor is not there for the owner's benefit, it is there to lean it out as much as possible in the most used part throttle "cruise" part of the map as shown in the video.
Are these downloadable maps as I’ve bought a Ktm 1290 has a horrid pickup and induction noise until rpm builds up, has rock whilst intake Decat/o2 blanks/ar stubby can/ power commander 5 Sai blank
Absolutely, but it depends on the model. As of 11/30/2020, all 990-1290 bikes (except for the 2020+ Super Duke) have Kehin systems that will require the fueling dongles in place of the stock O2's for the PCV to work either with or without Auto Tune. You CANNOT use Auto Tune with the stock O2's plugged in because the bike's stock computer will fight with it and try and undo what Auto Tune is doing and it turns into a boxing match. Bottom line, on those models a PCV with the fueling dongles is an awesome way to go and that's what you want to run. No reason to run without them. Now, on the newer 790 and 890 bikes, as of this time there is no dongle that will work with that Bosch system, so if you are running Auto Tune with that the stock O2's will need to be unplugged. You will get an engine light (which is harmless) on those models and on the Adventure you will lose cruise control. If you are willing to live with those things, you can map in closed loop (or where it used to be) and use Auto Tune all you want. By unplugging the stock O2's you have basically removed the bike's ability to tune itself to 14.7 AFR and replaced it with a system that is better (Auto Tune) that can tune the bike to whatever you want. 13.2 is best overall for power. If you want to know more, just give one of our tech guys a call! 844-768-7373 or email info@rottweilerperformance.com.
If you have an Auto Tune added to the system then yes, otherwise you can't see AFR's using the stock narrow band O2's. They just report 'ranges' to the stock ECU and you would need wide band O2's to view them. Your options are installing an Auto Tune (single wide band is fine for parallel twins) and either only use it to view AFR's on your laptop, or actually enable it to 'tweak' your mapping and keep it in peak performance all the time. If you add a POD 300 you can view your AFR's while you are riding and even log them in a CSV file (Excel) and view them later juxtaposed to throttle positions, RPMs, and anything else that Power Commanders can log or control. If you are a tuning geek, all of this is very cool to play with. Others just want a good running bike and simply run our pre made maps and that's it. Depends on who you are.
A fueling dongle only is like only putting a pilot jet. It will smooth out the bottom for a nice price but the rest is not touched. A Powercommander V is like a complete jet kit for fuel injection and will cover 100% of your map. The choice is yours.
What about those that have the evo map flashed in the ECU (its supposed to help down low) do we still need this dongle if we are going to install a pcv?
Excellent info...didnt get a dongle or mapping when i bought mine from you....you did later give me a code to download a map to install! Do i need to buy dongle then? Thanks!
For the PCV to work properly you would need one yes. Otherwise your closed loop will just undo any mapping inputs that are in that area of the map. For a period of time, there were PCV's without dongles and no one knew so there may have been some that went out before we could tell anyone that they needed these. You are still safe as your mapping is just set to 14.7 AFR, but your map is probably intending 13.2 and it's not working because the O2's are still working.
Ok...so when i bought the intake and pcv from you i was supposed to get the dongle with the pcv as a package?? But as i didnt get one i need to putchase it? Thanks
What's the deal with the power commander 5 & 6's on your site for ktm 890 adv's? You don't sell the 5 any more but you do sell the maps for it and the 6, you can buy but you don't sell any maps.
Hello, yes we are currently transitioning out of Power Commander 5's and into 6 as we sell out of the older versions. You simply choose your map preference at the point of purchase. We don't sell the maps, but rather load them prior to shipping them out to you free of charge.
@@jnat7806 They basically both do the exact same thing. The 6 just uses newer software and also gives the dealers who build their own maps for customers (us) the ability to lock them in the background. The customer still has the ability to adjust them +/- 15% over the top of that which is in almost all cases plenty of room. What it comes down to is pressure on Dynojet to be more compliant with certain states emission laws. We still offer the exact same services with either the 5 or the 6, and are in the process of converting all of our PC5 maps to PC6 on our website for customers.
Hi guys. Quick question: Will I have any gains (power wise) when installing the Rottweiler air filter, PCommander V (with fuel dongles) but leaving the Cat (mandatory in Germany) installed? Thanks.
Of course! Many of our customers leave the cats in place and that is totally fine. There are still huge gains to be made with or without the cat. It is not that impactful whether you decat or not. It's mostly for sound and weight purposes why people do that. The power is usually shifted up when decatting anyway due to how all of the parts are designed in concert with one another.
This is a great question. First of all, you still need the O2 optimizers to use or add Auto Tune as well, otherwise you'll have a boxing match on your hands where the Auto Tune will be battling the stock system for supremacy on who will give up first unless the Auto Tune is set to something close to stock air fuel ratios which is 14.7 AFR. If it's set to make power (13.2 air fuel ratio) then it will see the stock AFR of 14.7 and try to richen it. The stock system will then 'sniff' a richer AFR than what it is programmed to keep it at and try to reverse that, on and on until one of them wins. Probably the Auto Tune if left without limiting parameters, but we have never taken it that far to see who would win. We have only tested this and watched them fight and then turned off the Auto Tune. If parameters are set in Auto Tune to stop corrections at +/- 20% it will stop corrections at that number. When Auto Tune is then turned off, the stock system goes very lean for a few seconds until it then corrects back to 14.7. It's quite interesting to watch. NOTE: This is only KTM's from 790 and up in CC. The 701/700/690 models and lower DO NO self correct. Although they posses narrow band O2's like the 790's and up, they only use them to warn and not correct when things are out of parameter. Anyhow, now that we have established that, let's get on to your question of Auto Tune if we haven't answered it already above. Power Commanders alone come from Rottweiler Performance pre programmed when the customer asks for it during purchase. So when run with the O2 optimizers that we provide they work over the entire RPM range to alter the map into ranges that make power. (The 790/890 LC8c that use Bosch systems need the O2's unplugged and there are no dongles available) When an Auto Tune is introduced, it will then monitor the exhaust gasses in a similar way that stock does, but with wide band O2's instead of narrow band O2's and then tweak the base map into any air fuel ratio (AFR) that you program it to shoot for. Most notably 13.2 if you are looking for power. This gives you complete control over your fueling needs and also constantly tweaks your map to perfection wherever you are and whatever environments you are in. The stock system still makes tweaks for altitude and so on underneath the Power Commander so you are fine there without an Auto Tune, but the Auto Tune will put all of that on steroids with an added brain making tweaks based on exhaust gasses. The stock system does this via barometric sensors and so on which is fine, but the Auto Tune will be more fine tuned if you are looking for that 'enth degree' of tweaking perfection. Is an Auto Tune mandatory? No. Are they awesome at what they do? Yes. Just depends on what level of tuning you are looking for out of your motorcycle.
Good video, I just purchased a PC 5 and they came with some dongles but Im pretty sure there ones only one resistor. If it included the O2 dongles at all would it be a safe assumption that the ECU will not correct your mapping? Thanks for your time!
Yes, the dongles included stop your ECU from trying to undo all of the corrections made by the Powercommander V. If you have a single cylinder, you will get one dongle, and twins get two. They basically send a static signal to the ECU that is always the same. Your bike will still acclimate as a few other sensors are still in play like MAP and Barrometric sensors.
Perfectly fine. A fuel dongle alone is like just a pilot jet in a carburetor. A Powercommander V is like a full jetting kit. It just depends on your budget and what you want from the bike.
Fixing to buy the power commander and quick shift from you guys for a 2022 ktm 690 smcr so will this already be tuned for my bike and basically be plug n play and I won't have to go get it tuned or am I getting the wrong understanding?
You are understanding correctly! All you need to do is let us know what modifications you have and we do the rest. We have nailed those models perfectly and have thousands of happy clients running exactly what you have described. You WILL be happy.
Hey there, i got the 690 smc 2013 model with acrapovic exhaust on. The bike has a setting under the seat from 1 to 10 if im not mistaken. Setting number 2 should be the sports mode. Im about to purchase a rottweiler airintake but i dont know if i should leave the setting on 2 thats it or change it to a different one and do other changes elsewhere to get better performance. I know about the dynojet but would there be any conflict if i install it too due to the bike having its own ecu setting on number 2? Can you please advise whats best? Thanks
Great question Rudy. The #2 setting is basically a different map that we believe has some ignition advance to it. You can still use these settings with a Power Commander for sure. We have sold over 3600 Power Commanders for just that model and lot's of people have had great results with them so rest assured that you'll be fine. The only thing we would say it that if you are running position 2 on your SMC, maybe don't run a map of ours with advanced ignition as you will probably end up with too much. The Power Commanders basically just add advance over anything that is coming out of the stock ECU so it will just add our already advanced ignition on top of advanced ignition so just don't do that and you are fine. If you want to know how much ignition a PC map has, just used the software, upload the map, look at it, and if you see any numbers in the ignition tables over about 3 then it's more advanced. They can all be zeroed out and re sent if you like position 2. (save the map to your PC before doing that so you will always have it) That's about it! Hope this helps.
@@RottweilerPerformance ic ok. I believe the setting numbers 5 and above on the bike are empty specifically for someone to put the customer map on. So out of my ignorance i would guess that the best option for max power is either to install the rottweiler and leave it on #2 or install the rottweiler, install powercommander, change it to number 5 which is empty and do a custom map. ...i think
@@rudy2684 The 'empty' spots on the map adjuster are only there because KTM sourced the device from a company that only had a part that had multiple settings, but KTM only used two of them. To our knowledge there is no way to install maps on any of the other settings. The computer stores two, and depending on the resistance of the switch is what map it runs.
I own a 2014 duke 690 and there actuellement 3 setting, I thing. 0 being the "stock" setting, 2 the most agressive and 1 the more relax of I remember correctly
I don't really understand your arguments. If you remove the O2 sensors and buy regular O2 eliminator that you can buy on eBay for a few dollars, the system will run in Open loop. Open loop simply means there is no feedback to the ECU. In this case, it means there is no sensing or measuring of the exhaust gas and the engine will run at maximum AFR. The fuel injected is determined by the RPM and throttle position, derived from fuel injector pulse width numbers stored in the fuel maps, and is trimmed for environmental conditions due to air temperature, air pressure and engine temperature.
I'm not sure what we are arguing per se, (more of a statement) but let's see if we can explain this in a way that would make more sense. You are close though. Technically speaking with O2 eliminators (that actually come free from us so no need for an extra Ebay purchase), the ECU is still running in closed loop, but relying on a static signal from the O2 eliminators instead of a constantly varying signal from the stock narrow band O2's. This causes the ECU to stop hunting to make the air-fuel ratio a stoichiometric 14.7, and because of the specific and static resistance of our dongles the map basically sits still believing it is still doing what it is supposed to, hence no FI light with the dongles on Kehin models. This mimicks an open loop map but technically is not. This is then trimmed with small increments with signals from the barometric, MAP and temp senors. We then map over the map the stock ECU is locked into and bingo, a good map. If we are making any argument, it would be that you are not truly remapping your bike without the O2 eliminators which again, come free from us with a PCV purchase. Hope this all makes sense.
Check the text on this page linked here. It will describe exactly what the PCV will do and won't do depending on what you are expecting. I would answer here, but its a bit long and there are helpful links on this page that we are sure will help you. www.rottweilerperformance.com/dynojet-powercommander-v-for-ktm-790-890-duke/
@@RottweilerPerformance They are restricted electronically, i'm guessing by one of the map's in the bike's Edit: It's restricted by a throttle map. The ECU takes your desired throttle input from the grip and then looks it up in a table and then opens the throttle according to the table.
DynoJet states the reason this was excluded is because they have found the bike to run better with stock o2 sensor operational. In my case I was asking them regarding husky 701. What they mean by run better I don’t know. They also recommended me keeping my stock o2 sensor installed even though i purchased a autotune module.
Well, back when it happened yes, we were a little surprised they didn't tell anyone that they had shifted to only mapping open loop, so we started including them ourselves. Nowadays they have made some substantial changes to what they are doing that has some retailers who just buy and sell and don't actually program them or make their own maps scrambling a bit. This is where we have the advantage of being able to make sure our customers have the right stuff and why we have such an interactive program with our customers involving Dynojet product. We want to make sure you know what you are getting and are very happy about it and that has done very well for both us and our customers. We are the #1 seller of Dynojet products for KTM on the planet.
They can only tune open loop, and would have to spend time to identify it which can quite a bit of time. We do that on all of the models we sell for and provide the maps and dongles for free. We know allot of tuning centers are not happy about being handcuffed, but that's where we come in to help. At least with KTM models.
