So here we are again, talking the SF6 Season 2 patch and saving(buffing) the characters that need help. NOW BEFORE YOU EVEN START I know most of yall hate honda, I get it. People hate that he's super gimmicky and I AGREE WITH THAT EXACTLY. Lets remove the gimmicks, and lets give him some solid fundamental things to look forward to which are exactly the ideas presented in this video. So give the vid a watch, like to prove you aren't scared of Honda like the rest, and let me know what you think! **EDIT** yes I am aware buff lets some other moves cancel into hands it doesn't normally, maybe I phrased it badly, I am specifically talking about cr MK and fHK though which would be the real breakthroughs
I agree with your points about Honda's buff, but there is something I'd like to clear up. With the buff active, his crouching HP is now cancelable into his slaps. I just wanted to mention this since I didn't see you talk about it in the video. Great work!
@@eskaliion yeah that and clap as well, I think i mention it somewhere nearer to the end. I want it like SFV though where it can turn fHK into a really scary poke button
That sad part about this FGC, while I'm not going to single that out from the "Old FGC" due to not having Social Media for players to speak their Opinions & Perceptions is that there're way too much complaining going about the characters and not going after Capcom Japan, NRS, Arc Sys., etc about how they're picking & choosing what character can be great and what character can be bad!! That's the freakin' problem right there. There're way more males than females playing in the FGC as a whole and it bothers me to see a ton of these young males acting like they've got an extreme case of having extremely Low Testosterone and always crying & complaining about a character, but they only want the character that they love to play to be Top Tier or remain being Top Tier!!! If these young males would understand and learn how to deal with characters like Dhalsim, Zangief, E. Honda, Blanka, F.A.N.G./A.K.I., and Manon then the Devs wouldn't intentionally make these characters bad on purpose just to cater to these whiny cry babies that you see on EventScrubs "Hubs", your channel, FightGameSelect channel, UltraChen channel, etc etc etc... That's why the decling in SFV Season 5 with Luke coming out with everything and getting a slight nerf for the "Definitive Patch" then SF6 he gets even more stuff that he really doesn't even need at all!! Ken gets buffed coming into SF6, Rashid gets buffed with some slight nerfs in neutral, J.P. & Marissa came out of the gate strong immediately as brand new characters, but Kimberly got nerfed after the 2nd beta because of her mixups, Jaime ain't sh*t, Lily got trashed because of SuperTurbo & SF4 T. Hawk, Dee Jay is the only character who got trashed immediately in SSF4, but got made up for it in SF6.... 🤷🏾♂🤦🏾♂ Sometimes, you gotta talk about the Truth & Facts over the Opinions & Perceptions about characters who are hated the most while they don't have the best options as the Top Tiers do.!!
I forgot Honda even had the clap. You almost never see it. I think something as simple as letting him recover almost immediately after destroying a projectile would make it a way better move. Just so he's not free to level 3s on reaction but he still has to respect EX or multi-hit projectiles.
Yeah, doesn't even make sense leaving the clap with that recovery in a game where any character can drive rush to you and get a free opening, also parries exist.
@@OhNoTheFace sure. Now we can definitely form educated opinions. I hate the know-it-all that cry for buffs and nerfs 12 hrs after a characters becomes available. NRS and Tekken community have plenty of those...
Lily vid did well enough and people asked for a Sequel so here it is! Maybe if this does well then Jamie or Manon can get a swing at bat as well? Just like Lily this video is less about turbo buffing someone to the moon, and more just some ideas to let him play the same damn game as everyone else. Just like Lily is a pale shadow of T. Hawk currently, Honda is kinda a pale shadow of his SFV incarnation, they took all the fundamentally sound stuff away for gimmicky buttslam pressure and I ain't a fan lol. ***edit*** also if you leave a comment saying that Honda shouldn't be buffed you are mentally and spiritually weak
As someone who played Alex in SFV for years (unfortunately), I 100000% agree with the sentiment of "Hey can I have an actual gameplan to implement and for my opponent to play against and not Lariat - The Character"
I’m glad you made a video on this! Hopefully more eyes will be on Honda. Cuz the man needs some serious help lol. He solid but he working way too hard compared to everybody else. They made him feel too gimmicky around his headbutt n buttslam only
I don’t understand the Honda hate, he’s cool asf. Mashing buttslam and headbutt is scummy, but do people forget jp exists? I’d fight a Honda over a JP every day of my life
Im a Honda main and I also agree 100% with every single word you said. From making his neutral way better, to nerfing his headbutt I think you hit every single nail on the head.
Hearing about E.Honda risking a punish for clapping enemy projectiles makes me glad Potemkin's F.D.B doesn't have that issue. He gets brief i-frames during the recovery frames of reflecting a projectile and can freely block or anything else afterwards. In other words, he doesn't get punished for a successful reflect. Even something simple like that would make E. Honda's clap usable in neutral.
I've been a Honda player since I was 11, and I'm in my thirties now, so I'm gonna play him no matter what - but.... yeah. I wouldn't mind getting a few buffs, please.
He indeed needs buffs, but it’s just so annoying how he plays out, at least Blanka feels like the other guy is having fun, Honda just feels like I’m playing a miserable son of a bitch that wants me to feel as miserable as they do
keep doing nerf and buff videos like these for each character. its a good way to learn about characters broken and weak moves in a condensed manor this far into the games current season
But the beauty of Honda is that he doesn't play SF6 while everyone else is just playing the same generic SF6 crap style. Winning with honda at any level above diamond 5 is no longer the cakewalk it was in the beginning. You need to use his headbutt as a sharp whiff punishing tool and you need to have great reactions with your specials and supers in general. People say it is easy to get to Master with Honda, but go tell that to the thousands of Honda players stuck in Gold, Platinum and Diamond. It's easy for someone who has experince in fighting games and has reactions, but your average spammer that randombly uses headbutt when he feels like it instead of using it as a sniper, barely makes it to platinum. Honda in SF6 is like Honda in ST and HOnda in alpha 3. Always a scrub killer, but high level Honda requires extremely intelligent and reactive gameplay as it is with Gief in those games as well.
I'm all for this, it sounds really well thought out and fun. That said, after how they showed that they are okay with giving a character the entire world (JP), I'm fine with any other character having everything too. Give Honda all the things, lets live a world where hes top tier and fun for once.
Getting Honda to master is super easy. Winning when you get there is the problem. His neutral is garbage. He gets eaten up by the cancellable 2MK army all day because his buttons are just too slow and stubby in that range. A 7 frame 2MP would be amazing and would help so much. His poor walking back speed also really hurts.
It would be cool if Honda's moves had more push back. It would fit his fighting style of sumo wrestling by making every slap and headbutt's goal to push his opponent to the corner of the Dohyo.
One other thing I really want for clap is to change the input from 22P to 2PP, similar to Jamie's 2KK kick thing. It even makes more sense since he's using two hands, but it will make it both easier to use on reaction (as it will essentially give it slightly faster startup without changing existing frame data) as well as out of combos (canceling crouch jabs into 22P feels awful).
I really love the idea of putting out a hitbox with clap when it pops a fireball, the man is slapping his meaty hands together HARD ENOUGH TO REMOVE PROJECTILES FROM EXISTENCE, it should have some kind of hitbox there. The other option is definitely more fun but I like the idea of it being more of a dedicated defensive tool, Honda's supposed to be a defensive wall you have to chip through slowly and that'd be some good flavor
Its always funny that the shoto players want Honda nerfed... how do you have the best buttons, specials, AND supers and you STILL complain about Honda?
Honda was the first character I played when sf6 came out thanks to your propaganda and I love playing him and using his buff specifically. Here's hoping he gets the buffs he deserves 😁
Awesome video yeah I would love if these changes got in. In SF6 I have the most fun playing Honda, but his options are so limited sometimes it can get boring. Would love if they just gave him a little bit more
I actually love him in this game, as a big fan of Sumo I have always wanted to be good with him but just never enjoyed his play style in any previous game but weirdly I am loving him in this game, uploading a video later today of him but I agree with what you are saying higher level players will be a nightmare to face using him.
I liked all your suggestions! Honestly I'd really like clap to be a viable combo extender, increasing the hit box and damage so it's more consistent and rewarding. I actually think the second option for the clap would be easier to implement. I'd take the first one a step further and make it a chain explosion a la Potemkin FDB (don't think it'd fit with sf though) 😅
Also, the ridiculously big hurtbox during butt slam, almost half the character: It is just ludacris that you can beat that special with a normal uppercut very easily, plus you have many frames to perfect parry it. Also, can get thrown on start of OD headbutt: that is ludacris too. But how about the clap sends balck the projectile, like Potemkin does?
Being +1 from buttslam isn't negligible. Even if they can walk backwards out of jab pressure, as you've shown, he's still in unreactable low range which includes sweep, and I think that's the intent here since it creates a bunch of manageable, but rotatable options the opponent has to deal with that vary in risk reward. That said, I like all of these buffs, and I think they work fine without even nerfing buttslam. I also don't see why clap can't have both of those buffs. Power level in SF6 is high enough that something like that is standard. I'd honestly take it further and make clap on punish counter crumple opponents. The issue most people have with low tiers aren't their gimmicks, because a gimmick is only a gimmick until you can deal with it. The issue is that they can't really use anything else so they're often reduced to their best traits/options and people feel cheated when they lose to that single thing. Make characters better and the things people complain about increase which ironically makes people complain less.
the first two buffs (walk speed and faster cr.mp) are also from broski's "only two changes per character" video from yesterday. Are these changes inspired by that video or are they well known issues with honda that everyone is talking about?
Jumping in way past the likely expiration date of this video just to say the following. "The Sumo Shimmy/Stomp" is a training and ritual exercise known as "Shiko". It's part of the pre-match rituals practiced by the sumotori or rikishi to drive away evil spirits before a match.
I'm all for making his level 3 hitbox taller. So many other characters can launch you halfway up the screen and their one will connect no problems. and while I'm at it, Honda has this weird interaction off a punish counter HP into 2 hit S.HK where sumo walk launcher (EX or otherwise) after will whiff. Why? I don't know. It'd be nice for a smidge extra damage over the single hit S.HK if you could do a basic ass combo off it.
You shouldnt have released this video. Cus when the patch comes out and they add none of these awesome changes and give him 2 nerfs and a pointless buff ill be real sad.
patch is gonna be stressful. Capcom has had some awful awful patches like sf4 ae and sfv season 2. I just hope lessons learned and we get a banger out of the gate
I want to see an experiment hooking up a goldfish tank to the game. when he swims left he headbutts, and when he goes right he butt splashes. I bet he gets to Diamond in 1000 matches
My biggest problem as a manon player was Honda until I got my perfect parrys down. now I'm able to get all 5 of my medals during the first round with most Honda players
I was in Broski's chat on Twitch a few weeks ago and someone asked him "if he could remove two characters from the game, who would it be?" He said Ken and JP, I said Lily and Honda. Reading my answer, Broski said "I can totally see why you'd say that, different reasoning, but makes total sense." Now you've just made two videos on why those characters basically don't work in SF6. My issue is that I'm a charge player. I generally prefer charge moves to other motion inputs. In SFV I played Balrog and Guile, so Guile is good for me in SF6 but I'd occasionally like to play someone else, Honda would be my second choice but he just became a PP practice dummy about a month after launch. If my opponent can't PP headbutts and buttslam, I win. If they can PP headbutt and buttslam, I lose.
Looking forward to the fixing Gief video, we all know it's coming ;) Personally I think he needs to be better at punishing people jumping out of grabs without burning loads of meter. Also give him better defense in the corner (whisper - unthrowable EX SPD). Give some utility to all his useless moves like c.HP (oki on neutral jumpers?) and stomp target combo. Speed up level 2 super and give it more than 1 pixel of hitbox. I might be in the minority but I think lariat hitting behind is nice but not really that important. Oh and delete Tundra Storm from the game.
Honda deserves y'alls respect. I think somewhere here did a video on that... All the chars should be viable, it makes for a much better game. And less toxic too, makes for a better viewing experience. We want to have to beat characters and not gimmicks
As good of a sentiment as that is, there is always going to be a handful of not so viable characters, and I wouldn't be surprised if Manon or Honda are bad for the entirety of the game's life. That said, Honda seems to be on the rework side of things if the small patch was anything to go off of, so he'll probably at least be okay going forward.
Good ideas on making him more fundamentals-based. I've been watching top Hondas on YT to see their approach. The thing I want most is removing the need for a Capcom ID link or making it easier. I haven't been able to get online since I got the game 5+ months back. Been enjoying WT & offline stuff til a miracle happens. No problems w/other games. Nice vid.
Imagine all the broken Drive impacts because EHonda could get standing HK into Hands. He would be in grab range and mix city ... That is a very bad idea.
Never understood the hate for honda or why he's considered gimmicky. I'm doing a HB or BS once or twice per game? and i m doing mostly fine with his lacking neutral. Blame the player for spamming such moves not the character. Otherwise lets just also hate on guile and other zoners who prefer to play shootemup across the screen or Luke's whole insane op moveset. Honda is fine, he only wanted a restaurant for chanko stew ffs leave the big man alone
For Clap, use option 1 of the burst AOE damage but ALSO, recovery from a successful fireball Clap could be the same frame of the explosions hit. So you could combo if you were close enough that the explosion hits but also safe from DRush or w/e if it whiffed.
#1 Ranked Honda for SF4 here (never played SF5 as Honda was not part of the initial roster) and #1 Ranked MR Honda for Xbox (I know I know, dead console) one of the only changes Honda needs to not suck so bad on this game is to improve his wake up game, Grabs are honestly Honda’s BIGGEST weakness, make all non-OD buttslam versions -10 I don’t care, make all Headbutts except for 1 (preferably light or OD) negative as hell I don’t care either but please Capcom make it so at least has something to escape throw loops in the corner, people at higher levels just abuse throws against Honda since they know there is nothing Honda can do other than guest the throw is coming so at that point they just empty jump/shimmy, weakest wake up game on the roster 100%, Honda OD Headbutt needs to NOT be be able to be grabbed out if at least a few frames have already passed since the move triggered, right now you can be grabbed out of a headbutt while honda is ALREADY both feet in the air and flying through the screen, this needs to change 100%, or like you say OD Buttslam needs to have some sort of invulnerability at least on frame 1, also agree we need better ways to combo into HHS, it was great on SF4 that you could combo crouching jab into H.HHS and THEN after H.HHS you could combo into crouching medium Kick into headbutt, give this to Honda again and he will be good to go, also agree we need an OD palm or better functionality out of it, good video
I’ll be honest Hondas in a position where we’d have to scrap the character to make him viable. He’s gimmicky because that’s what Honda players want. And a super gimmicky character shouldn’t be top tier. Any changes we make to Honda will simply make him not Honda. And I’m sure most people have no problem with that. But the people who play him will. It’s like with gief the players love the huge damage. But he can’t have reliable tools when he gets to nuke you for zero effort. Any suggestions thatre just “buffs” to these characters miss why they have weaknesses in the first place.
A funny thing would be if the last slap could be delayed when the buff is active so that on block you have a frametrap & allowing it to cancel into sumo step instead of the last slap could be fun.
I mained Honda in SF4 and quit SF5 shortly after launch. Was really looking forward to getting my main back in SF6. Imagine my disappointment when not only is he not good and relies on gimmicks, but is hated by everyone haha. I've since picked up Aki instead but would love to see Honda fixed
This is painful to listen to. Clearly Capcom considers Honda a joke character who shouldn't trouble the high levels of play. Season 1 he was basically a parry trainer for the community as they moved on in the ranks past his obvious scrubby gameplay. Almost everything you mentioned they gave to Bison.
I got Honda to diamond 2 after watching your guide and he was actually really fun and I don’t dislike him at all but I did get a bit bored of him. During my climb to masters with deejay I was hoping for Hondas Because he’s free points but I only got one D5 rank Honda and I destroyed him so he left😂. You can literally react to his headbutts with DI and his buttslam with DI or back heavy kick to combo with deejay, Honda is scary in the corner but who isn’t really
I like all this in theory. I think your pushback on Sumo Slam is a bit excessive, though. It just needs to push him out of range to loop it with c.LP, but it should remain a viable option for closing distance, generally speaking. I don't want to be back at square one if it gets blocked.
Before anything changes on Honda which of course is open for discussion 1 thing i want to see adressed is his Standing Heavy Kick (the stomp). That is what i would like to see get "fixed". I bothers me that it cancels into special moves without hitting. If it hits its a hit but if it does not he cancels???? That does not make sense to me. I'm suprised that nobody else is mentioning it or has not encoutered it.
All valid especailly that cMP change the frustration of outspacing someone and catching their buttons only for it to be +7 and you have nothing that reaches beyond super is ridiculous. Another thing for clap change the motion the down down motion for it sucks make it 236 punch
I love the idea of clap making a explosive hitbox at the dissipation of the move and I would love to see that but how about we add one more thing to incentivize clapping along with it What if you give it the ability to give Sumo Spirit (The Buff) and it was technically a faster but more skill intensive or Risk/Reward way to activate it if you successfully clap away a projectile. This would also actively give us Honda players another possible defensive tool to consider and help us against the scum that is zoners (Im looking at you Guile players) 😂😂😂 Btw its all in good fun
Not really a buff or a nerf, but I’d like to give Honda a corner carry command grab like Hugo’s meat squasher, akin to an actual sumo wrestler shoving their opponent to the edge of the ring.
I would make the butt slam similar to Ryu's haso buff in burnout, Honda cant lose his pressure just because players cant use parry. I'm not a Honda fan either but the is game is offensive based as is and other characters need to get buffed to be on the same table. The proof is in the beginning of your own video.
Playing E. Honda against my friend is quite fun. I'm not a good Honda player but Counter Hit Heavy Hands > Jab > Light Hands is a great source of enjoyment. I think these changes would be helpful for everyone involved. I completely forgot he has Clap and the idea that he is the one that gets clapped for using the move is absurd. Also nerfing Buttslam will start to heal my Super Street Fighter 4 3DS E. Honda flashbacks.
The buff already makes uncancellable moves cancel to hands. 2HP, the end part of 5HP and ddP cancel to hands with the buff. I agree to add 2MK to that list, though.
I love these changes I'm not a Honda player but I've always been a Honda fan! Also sorry for all the snide remarks you're gunna have to sift through on this vid
So the second buff to his Sumo Spirit is interesting. Though I do worry if it could be used poorly. What I mean is if 3MK and 6HK become special cancellable when Sumo Spirit is active, what if instead of people going for 100 HS, they go for his other special moves? Other than that, some interesting proposals.
Clap fixes - use both (all), AND add an option for extra clap follow up with Sumo Spirit buff. Make it very plus after, but a spirit buffed clap should have the splashback on projectile snuff, and then a second hit that's harder and possibly have extra knockback to reset neutral. At least make it particularly effective against fireball chasers as a 'no you don't' dissuasion. Shockwave on 2nd clap optional but would be very aesthetically pleasing.
I hate all his kicks besides his heavy kicks, the only ones ive gotten use is DR m.k, anti air light and medium kick. My gameplan is basically if they are too afraid to snuff out my DR use aheavy kick,.be it neutral Hk, 6HK (or c.Hp) or 3HK (usually cancelled into command grab because sumo stomp can be cancelled only into command grab), if i hit 5HK i go into sumodash->lift ->light buttslam. If anything else i go for doubleslap-> heavy hands into buff, and if they have bad matchup knowledge you can do double slapp into buffed heavy slap light slaps into buff which is -13 but if they dont know they dont know. But yeah playing honda can be a chore of making sure not to spam the same thing over and over which is hard when he doesn't have much to approach besides headbutt and buttslam, helped with my footsies with Marisa though
@@rooflemonger ::whispers:: a good wake up option other than her level 2 and getting rid of that stupid twirl at the beginning of her drive rush (slows it down and kills the range)
I hate honda, but as an ok player, i basically agree he needs buff/rework. i hate butt slam and just giving him slight better buttons feels overall better. Also the clap i think special cancel idea be fun to see.
Just make headbutt track (If the opponent jumps, the headbutt will follow them in the air) Also make him escape the corner from one side to the other like Anakaris
